I put this note on someone's van today.

[OnyxCollie]

Last Friday, I was walking through the parking garage and noticed a van with a Bush/Cheney bumpersticker. I thought about putting a swastika on it with a black Sharpie (at the suggestion of a DU member), but remembered Vincent Vega in Pulp Fiction complaining about his car being keyed, "You don't mess with a man's car," so I continued walking. Today, I noticed most of the bumpersticker had been peeled off. I decided to leave this little note:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Today, I noticed that you had removed the Bush/Cheney bumpersticker from your vehicle. I would like to commend you for doing so. Whatever your reasons may have been for supporting President Bush, I am glad you now see the error of your ways. It is necessary and important for citizens in this democracy to not be blinded by fear, religious rhetoric, or nationalistic pride. The time is now to demand our elected officials perform their sworn duty to uphold and defend the Constitution, serve and protect their constituents, and not mislead, deceive, and lie for corporate gains.

You are forgiven. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Patriotic Citizen

I could have beat them over the head for voting for Chimpy (and really, I would have liked to), but the thought of them scraping that sticker off their car, thinking "I fucked up" and now knowing that someone else knows that they know they fucked up, was enough for me.

[Neil Lisst]

1. it's his car, and his canvas on which to write

How about accepting that it's his car, and he can put whatever the hell he wants on it, and you're trespassing when you touch it?

This is a first amendment issue, and each person has a right to put what they want politically on their car, and furthermore, it's no one else's business.

[NorCalDem]

2. and a patriotic citizen has the right

to leave a note on that persons car provided they do no damage to the vehicle.

Free speech and all...

[Neil Lisst]

18. wrong. You don't have that right.

property rights and all ...

now you know

[gratuitous]

3. Leaving a note is trespassing?

News to me.

Of course, if I were to leave a note on someone's car for any reason, I'd feel bound to leave my full name and telephone number.

[Neil Lisst]

19. it can be trespass, particularly if you alter anything, like writing on

... on his bumper sticker.

His bumper sticker is none of your concern. Get your own bumper sticker, that's your remedy.

[Joe Fields]

53. The only time you should ever leave a note......

is if you have accidentally damaged that person's vehicle and cannot locate them. Then you must leave information on how you can be reached.

[ContraBass Black]

55. Welcome to the fray!

Are you sure you want to get into this? ;)

[Joe Fields]

66. I had two cents in my pocket and nothing else to spend it on.

[jukes]

143. who wrote that rule?

is it in Revelations, maybe?

[OnyxCollie]

4. I left his car alone.

I only thanked him/her for coming to the conclusion that Chimpy is not worth their support. Did you miss that?

[One_of_8]

5. Is it really trespassing

to even touch someone else's vehicle, such as by placing a note under the windshield wiper? While you might not agree with the poster's sentiments expressed in his note, I don't think it rises to the level of trespassing. Or else those people who keep putting flyers for furniture sales under my windshield wipers had better watch out!

Why jump all over the OP, for leaving a note that says "hey, I'm glad to see you appear to have removed your Bush/Cheney sticker"? And who cares what "they" call us? I'm tired of worrying about what "they" think.

[Neil Lisst]

23. yes, it really is trespassing

When you walk through a parking lot and have incidental contact with a car, it's not a trespass.

If you walk up to that car, drawn by its bumper sticker, and you leave a note on that car, YOU'RE the person in the wrong, not him. YOU'RE the lawbreaker, the trespasser, the one who dumps on the first amendment.

Where did some of you get the idea it's your right to leave notes regarding politics on cars with bumper stickers you don't like? How childish.

[Czolgosz]

50. If you are using the word "trespass" in a non-literal way, fine, but it's

not a literal trespass to leave someone a note on their car.

By your reasoning, it would be illegal for a campaign to drop doorhangers on voters' doors (which is a fairly well established campaign technique -- in fact, I did it myself just a week ago). This is not a trespass and it is, to the contrary, constitutionally protected free political speech.

As a legal matter, you are completely 100% incorrect to suggest that when leaving a note on someone's car "YOU'RE the person in the wrong, not him. YOU'RE the lawbreaker, the trespasser."

[Neil Lisst]

128. I'm using the "legal" defintions.

I don't know what you're using. It appears you're drawing on what you believe to be the law.

If you go over to someone else's car, and stick a note under their windshield wiper that says "I see you pulled your Bush sticker off. Thanks, and about time." That's a trespass. Whether you understand it or not.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neil Lisst]

150. no, one thing I've learned

Is not to give psychos on the internet my personal information.

[jukes]

164. "psycho"

that's a violation of the forum rules, attacking a fellow member. i've posted an "alert" on you. please don't let your frustration affect your judgement.

[Neil Lisst]

170. you mean this rule?

Do not say that you are hitting the alert link to report another member.

or this one?

Do not post personal information about any other person, even if that information is publicly available.

[Czolgosz]

158. I have actually represented people in trespass cases. You are mistaken.

You claim to be a lawyer, but your posts in this thread imply otherwise.

[Neil Lisst]

161. I have actually represented people in trespass cases, too.

Who hasn't?

[One_of_8]

71. Is this the law in every state?

Or is this just your opinion?

And are those individuals who leave flyers under car windshields in parking lots breaking the law?
I'm off to do a little research on what constitutes trespassing in my state.

[Neil Lisst]

130. the law of trespass is generally state law, with some common law

Trespass is both a criminal action and a civil cause of action. It is rooted in common law and codified in every state.

The law of trespass as a crime is probably not in play in the facts as given by the OP. But if the note had challenged the car owner, left a number and threatened action, I believe it would be a criminal trespass in many jurisdictions, because of the accompanying criminal intent.

[jukes]

146. wrong again!

if a note "threatened", it wd be covered by the "terrorist threat" codes that MOST states have enacted.

i'll repeat: "trespass" refers to "real" property, as in "real estate".

do not pretend to be an expert. and quit wasting our time.

[Neil Lisst]

149. this is why the lawyers at the DA's office make decisions

Instead of leaving it to the police, who don't always understand the law. They usually understand only how they enforce what they think is the law.

The note described would be a crime, a threat, and in placing that note on the car the person committed a trespass. It's up the DA to file the case, and the police to investigate.

[jukes]

157. well

unless that decision is made by a magistrate, as it is in many states.

and , OW, that crack about police not understanding the law sure left a welt!

[BooScout]

98. What if you own the parking lot?

Hmmmmmmmm

Oh and to prosecute for trespassing.......the property must be posted. Tis true......look it up.

[Neil Lisst]

132. civil, civil, civil

trespass has a meaning beyond your understanding of it

I've explained it elsewhere here.

[jukes]

148. you've explained

that you have absolutely NO knowledge of law, civil or criminal.

you've also explained that you grossly misunderestimate us!!!

[jukes]

144. in any jurisdiction that i've held a badge in

trespass refers to real property and it must be posted for it to be an offense.


quit making up the rules as you go. only bush/cheney get away w/ that!

[Neil Lisst]

147. you must not be familiar with tort law

you deal only in criminal complaints

[Pharaoh]

6. I agree neil

some freeper put a note on my car last year cause I had a dean and DU sticker on it ..........

I must say it is inappropriate......

[Neil Lisst]

24. and don't you feel that they had no business leaving it on your car?

everyone gets to use his or her car as THEIR canvas

[One_of_8]

81. You may not agree with the OP's choice to leave a note

under another vehicle's windshield wiper. But I've searched to find if this constitutes actual trespass and cannot find any information that says it does. What the OP did was not illegal, unless the vehicle was parked on private property (I believe he indicated it was a public parking area), and/or prohibited by local statute (which might or might not hold up if brought before higher courts of law).

[ContraBass Black]

85. Thanks for saving me the trouble of research.

Where did you look?

[BooScout]

104. I didn't research.......

But I know to prosecute for trespassing the property has to be posted. The argument that this was trespassing doesn't pass muster.

[Neil Lisst]

118. "trespass" has separate meanings in civil context than in criminal

A criminal trespass requires a proof of certain elements at the "reasonable doubt" standard, while the civil cause of action of "trespass" is an intentional tort which requires proof of certain elements at the "preponderance of the evidence" standard.

If you put a threatening note on someone's car when it was in a public place, that might be a crime, but it might not be the crime of trespass. However, the act of putting the note on the car is a trespass under tort law, and is actionable in civil court for damages.

This is really something of a rabbit trail, the whole side show about "trespass." Whether leaving a note is a trespass or not, it's obnoxious and a good way to start a fight.

[Pharaoh]

134. not just my canvas

but I am just making a statement, I don't want any and every body who disagrees with me to hammer me as I am just trying to go about my business.........

[11 Bravo]

9. Do you have a problem with blackops reponse?

Because if placing a note under someone's windshield wiper is a crime, then this just may be the singularly most uncivil society in recorded history.

[Neil Lisst]

30. it depends on the comment and the nature of the communication

"I hit your car." fine

"I saw someone hit your car." fine

"I see you tore your Bush sticker off. It's about time." Not fine

First of all, you don't know that he took it off. Someone like the OP may have pulled it off. It's presumptuous to assume he purposefully removed it without knowing more. He may not have, which would make the note even more infuriating.

There is a point here that some seem to miss. Leaving another person a note on their car regarding their bumper stickers is rude. It's uncouth. It's cheesy, and childish. It's the work of 13 year olds.

[onenote]

38. I still have my Kerry sticker

and if someone were to leave me a note about it I'd just think they were a jackass.

onenote

[JuniperLea]

56. Gee

I was just going to say all those things about your posts on this thread!


:shrug:


I don't think a note is any of those things. Any public announcement of one's beliefs is an invitation for discussion. Period.


Who pissed in your Wheaties today?

[JuniperLea]

10. Um... the OP did just that

It was the taking away that caused reaction.



If one should ever accidentally hit another car in a parking lot, should one NOT leave a note for fear of trespassing?


:shrug:

[Neil Lisst]

34. leaving notes is fine if your intent is fine

you go on someone's land and get their dog - trespass

you find their dog out and return it to its pen - not trespass

When you leave a note regarding an accident, that's required, it's not a trespass. Keying their car is a trespass. Breaking an antenna - trespass. Leaving a nasty note - trespass.

Not necessarily a criminal trespass. There's a civil cause of action for trespass.

But the point is not whether it is a trespass or not. That's just a term. It's offensive, and that's the point. Is there anyone who would not feel their possession, their car, had been violated by someone leaving a political note on it.

[JuniperLea]

51. I think you are speaking out of turn

It was not a nasty note and you have no idea what the owner may have thought. Perhaps the owner was embarrassed by Bush's actions and tore that sticker off in a fit of anger. Perhaps that owner was actually grateful that someone noticed he/she had awakened fully to whiff the cappuccino!

You assume much.

[Czolgosz]

65. Your understanding of a "civil cause of action for trespass" is 100% wrong

Leaving a nasty note is not trespass. It might be illegal (e.g., a note which says "I will kill you if you don't remove that bumper sticker" is illegal), but only to the same extent as it would be illegal to say the same words to someone in a conversation.

Leaving a note for someone is neither a "criminal trespass" nor is there a "civil cause of action for trespass."

By the way, neither keying a car nor breaking an antenna is trespass, either. Both actions would generally be considered criminal mischief and, depending on the jurisdiction, would qualify as a misdemeanor or a felony depending on the amount of the damage (in most jurisdictions it would still qualify only as a misdemeanor even if you scratched the car with a key and also broke the antenna; you generally need to do tens of thousands of dollars in damage to raise the offense to the felony level).

[Neil Lisst]

113. My understanding is perfectly correct.

Particularly the keying.

If you had attended law school, you'd have learned this your first year.

[Czolgosz]

129. I'm not a plumber so I wouldn't tell anyone their pipes needed replacing.

You are not a lawyer so you might want to consider refraining from telling people whether or not they have violated the law.

You are -- unequivocally and irredeemably -- mistaken in your views on trespass. This is not an area of legal ambiguity.

[Neil Lisst]

136. Yes, I am a lawyer

Is there a problem with that?

[Czolgosz]

154. No. I am also a lawyer. I am lecturer in almost a dozen states, and I am

board certified. I have handled election law cases among many other types of cases, and there is case law confirming that the first amendment guarantees the right to drop off literature on people's doorknobs. Leaving a note on someone's car is no different from leaving a note on someone's doorknob. I challenge you to find one case from any jurisdiction anywhere in the United States (or Canada) where leaving a note on someone's car was found to be a trespass. If you are a lawyer, you should apologize for misleading people about the nature of trespass.

[Neil Lisst]

160. Then you should know first year law.

I'm not misleading anyone regarding the law of trespass.

Touching a person's car to a leave a note like the one descibed is a tort. If you want to believe it's not, you go right ahead.

As for your bona fides, I'll judge you by your word product.

[ContraBass Black]

163. Ok, I'm going to have to see credentials from both of you.

:D

Perhaps there's some other means of credibility.

[Neil Lisst]

167. People can believe what they wish. They will anyway.

I would not do that, primarily because there are simply too many psychos who read this board, and I don't want them knowing my office address or having other ways to read my personal history.

Why would I want that? People here can believe what they wish. If someone tells me he or she is a lawyer, I look at how they write and what they write to see if I believe them.

[jukes]

166. no

you're not.

[Neil Lisst]

171. yes

you might want to see this rule at DU:

Do not call another member of this message board a liar, and do not call another member's post a lie.

[jukes]

165. nope

you're just wrong. and claiming an education in law school is not believable.

[BooScout]

108. To trespass Neil........the property must be posted. End of argument.

:eyes:

[Neil Lisst]

111. You're mistaken.

no such requirement

[ContraBass Black]

115. DU needs a call button

That you click and a lawyer shows up.

[Neil Lisst]

123. you called?

I am a lawyer.

[ContraBass Black]

124. Well, there you have it!

:D

[Neil Lisst]

135. that won't settle it

Now I'll have to hear about (1) you're not really a lawyer, or (2) figures, lawyers are such assholes, or (3) ambulance chaser!

I should know by now not to get into these discussions.

[Buns_of_Fire]

152. I'll be! It does work!

*ahem* "Boy, I need a beer." *push* *push* *push* *pushpushpushpush*

*push* *push*

*push*

...

(Drat. I KNEW it was too good to be true.)

[jukes]

155. take their dog (if the land is not posted)=theft

find a dog and return it to it's pen on posted property=trespass.

"keying" a car is "damage to personal property", NOT trespass.

"breaking antenna is "damage to personal property." NOT trespass.

civil litigation for "trespass" requires the SAME elements as criminal trespass, & most jurisdictions require that the "real" property involved be posted.



leaving a note that some1 has voted for an imbecile that is destroying this country MIGHT be construed as offensive by the fool that voted for him. i find voting for a lying criminal that is slaughtering our troops and the helpless civilians of a sovereign nation MOST offensive.

doesn't that offend you????

[pretzel4gore]

16. the trespasser is bush, and those who support him...

the rightwing has been conspiring against the people for more then 2 generations-their mass media never mentions that the US military budget is greater then rest of the world's combined;a republican pres. (Eisenhower) warned against the military/industrial complex's 'unwarranted' grasp of the nation's wealth and power-that was 2 generations ago.....Blackops did a good thing, keying the car would be 'pompous and self defeating'
the bush supporters have reeked havoc on the us, the entire world. ...they should be told never to support a criminal fascist again, no matter how much they agree with the bs the fascasti tells them - history is a lesson, and they should have learned it post ww2, post vietnam. but they didn't.

[OnyxCollie]

21. We bash Bush supporters all the time.

Does anyone forgive the ones who realized they were in error? Everyone bashes the people with the Support the Troops magnets. If they come to the conclusion that they were wrong in their beliefs, do you continue to bash them?

[pretzel4gore]

61. it seems the issues are different, depending on pov

neil thinks it's about property, and a person's right to do as they please with it, a right which you violated he says - you think it's about commending a bushevik who's seen the light, obviously neil doesn't agree! As anyone can see, the difference in viewpoint evoke conclusions which divide us....maybe you guys should just flip a coin to determine who apologises for being 'outta line' in the interest of DU solidarity(!)

[ContraBass Black]

78. And then there's the third line

Of people who think the content of the note was insulting.

What a sticky situation!

[jukes]

141. ah

the lovely smell of damp earth & musty fur!!

FUCK that unamerican son of a bitch and the psychopath he voted for.

and, BTW, i'll make it my business if i want. so now YOU know.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

168. I agree with you, one hundred percent.

I was in St. Petersburg Russia three weeks ago and there are still Lenin statues in some of the squares and our Russian tour guides made fun of them, saying that because of the stuck out thumb of Lenin, he was called "the hitch-hiker" amongst the people because he was always anxious to hitch a ride with anyone who had money and power. Or some said that his thumb was always pointing to the nearest liquor store. But for the people to come to the realization that this thief had stolen so much from them was so powerful and personal, it never entered my mind to check them on their own contribution to this doctrine. Nor would I chastise our citizens for their bad judgement.

Do I hold them responsible? Yes. But revenge is always better served cold, and on a plate of their own choosing, as I learned in the tundra of Dr. Zhivago land.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. How Utterly Obnoxious.

I know you think you meant well, but I think it was way counterproductive. The fact they scraped it off shows a hell of a start on the path we want them on. They don't need some self-righteous arrogant guy preaching to them on their windshield. If anything, you hurt us by doing things like that, not help us.

Next time, just smile at the glue mark of an old B/C bumpersticker, and drive the heck away.

[WhollyHeretic]

72. I totally agree

Things like that really aren't productive, they just push people back the other way.

I work at a small hardware store on the weekends and last week we were closing the store and had a couple of customers left, this obnoxious teenager and his father. They were there forever and we were closing up, the lights were off, and still this kid was shopping for stuff. His father was lounging in an adirondack chair we sell. The father calls me over and then asks me "you used to sell those support the troop stickers, so what the hell are you going to do now that 70% of the country is against the war?" and looks at me with this smug look. I have been against the war since day one but I found this obnoxious as hell. The store was closed, we were trying to get the hell out of there and it was pretty obvious that the two of us still there weren't the owners of the store (we're both in our 20's and both have been against the war from the start).

[Redstone]

8. How about keeping your opinions off other people's property?

And you REALLY considered writing on it with a permanent marker?

What the hell is wrong with you? Leave other people's property alone!

Your opinions do not justify vandalism.

Redstone

[OnyxCollie]

11. I wrote it on a piece of paper and put it under their wiper.

DID YOU READ THE POST? I DID NOT VANDALIZE THIER CAR!

Sheesh.

[Redstone]

17. But you considered vandalizing it. Nonetheless, keep your opinions off

other people's property! How fucking hard is that to understand?

How would you have liked it if a rightwinger had left a nasty note under YOUR wiper? You'd be angry, wouldn't you? You'd wonder why they couldn't just leave you alone, wouldn't you?

Didn't your momma teach you any damn manners?

Redstone

[JuniperLea]

20. Why all the hate

WTF is going on around here?

[ContraBass Black]

25. "WTF is going on around here?"

Just the usual. :D

[JuniperLea]

27. No. It most certainly is not the norm for DUers to be so hateful

WTF???


Have we been infiltrated or what??

[ContraBass Black]

31. Except for Republicanism and its underpinnings,

All of the rudeness, hatefulness, stubbornness, and other offensive characteristics are as prevalent in the DU community as they are in the rest of the population.

[JuniperLea]

37. Well, it's never been this bad!

It's getting downright sickening!

[ContraBass Black]

It was bad and sickening before.

Many DUers have always been ready to pile on each other or post massive blowups and call out threads or swing every rhetorical assault they can at the nearest poster in sight, and other people have always looked at it and said, "DU isn't as nice as it used to be" or "the Freepers must be here."

I think we'll all be much better people, more productive, and more polite if all of us or our friends have been the target of some particularly sharp abuse.

[JuniperLea]

60. Well, that is one opinion

And you are entitled to it.

I have always fought for the underdog and I cannot stand idly by and watch someone get beat up for no good reason.

If you and your buddy think you are doing the people here a service and are somehow teaching them a lesson, get over yourself. This helps no one.

[ContraBass Black]

69. My buddy?

What lesson?

Wait, am I part of the "Freeper tag team?"

[theHandpuppet]

32. I'm with you!

It seems a lot of folks around here are acting as if they need to cut down on the caffeine. :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

42. Cut down on something!

I just don't get it.

:shrug:

[CrazyForKucinich]

48. The thought police have arrived.

[KAZ]

117. Yes, I'd like to know. n/t

Something weird.

[Rosco T.]

22. He didn't leave A NASTY NOTE... .or did you read his post?? n/m

[OnyxCollie]

26. Little wound up today?

You really need to relax. I thanked someone for not supporting Bush, and forgave them for doing so in the first place. You have a problem with that?

[Redstone]

41. Yes, I do. Once more, keep your opinions off other people's property.

Redstone

[JuniperLea]

62. It's not like the OP spray pained it on the hood of the car!

I just don't get all the hostility over this.

[ContraBass Black]

33. Calmly seconded.

I would be offended if it were my car.

[OnyxCollie]

35. WWJD?

[JuniperLea]

40. He was a socialist liberal to the extreme

He would have either a) sought out the driver and thanked him personally, b) waited around and thanked him personally, c) I guess if he were very busy and in a rush... well hot damn! I'm sure he would have left a note of thanks!

Imagine that.

[Redstone]

43. Jesus would respect other people's stuff.

Redstone

[11 Bravo]

103. Tell that to the money changers. n/t

[Huskerchub]

112. Jesus would have...

walked on by and let it be, NOT inflamed someone! The other obvious thing that you have not considered, maybe ther person who now owns the car did not put the sticker there, maybe a previous owner did and the new owner just got around to cleaning off the sticker.

[brmdp3123]

46. It still wasn't your place to do it. It would piss me off!

[CrazyForKucinich]

47. "But you considered vandalizing it."

The thought police are bad guys. Go reread 1984 again.

[Huskerchub]

116. Ummmmmmm....

Did you read the post? This is not "thought police" this was the statement

"I thought about putting a swastika on it with a black Sharpie"

Now tell me how anyone who though about vandalizing someone else's property with a permanent marking pen was not thinking of doing serious damage to someones property! Depending on size of graffiti, it could have cost anywhere from $100 to $2000 to have repaired.

[OnyxCollie]

126. My post was ambiguous.

I thought about putting a swastika on the bumper sticker, not the car.

But since you're condemning me for imaginary damage, why stop there? Next time I'll imagine I'm one of the miniature twins from the Mothra movies, and I'll summon her to cleanse the Earth of the unbelievers.

Oh, the humanity.

[Beausoir]

131. Thank you, Redstone. Well stated. n/t

[eleny]

12. How do you now the vehicle owner was trying to tear off the sticker?

[OnyxCollie]

13. Because it was there on Friday

and 90% peeled off today. Unless someone else decided to put a swastika on it.

[eleny]

162. So it could have been someone else who tried to peel it off

You presumed it was the owner but it may not have been.

[JuniperLea]

14. Ok, I don't get it!

Why all the hate?

WTF is going on at DU these days?

[Neil Lisst]

36. Because it's misconduct, and we think it's important to say so.

It's really simple. It's NOT YOUR CAR.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ContraBass Black]

54. His response to the OP looks a lot more than your response to him.

If you want a return to civility, be unfailingly polite, even when it hurts, and try not to incite an escalation.

[JuniperLea]

58. Thanks for the advice

But no thanks.

I can't stand idly by when someone is being beat up. Sorry.

[ContraBass Black]

67. I can't stand by when I see someone complain about rudeness

While being rude.

A couple of months ago, I was the target of a massive call out thread. Someone claimed that I accused her of racism, and when challenged claimed that she was cranky and did not have to be reasonable about it. Literally 70 people jumped on me without reading my posts, calling me all manner of names, including the people I know face to face that introduced me to DU.

That's when I woke up to the truth of how people sometimes treat other here. I was angry for days. Then, I grew a thicker skin, and gave it more serious thought.

I will come to the defense of anyone I see being unfairly targeted, especially when those attacking are claiming reprisal for an attack. I see Neil being polite and others being rude to him here.

Even if he were being an idiot and calling people Freepers left and right, that would not make it proper to respond in kind.



I did not suggest that you be idle, stand by, or condone an attack. I also will not accept responsibility for a misreading of one of my posts unless it is clearly caused by a lack of clarity in my words.




This response is to everyone here, not just you. Please do not take the size or intensity of it personally.

[hiaasenrocks]

57. "holier than thou"

If you're sick of that, why do you condone the note on the windshield?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hiaasenrocks]

73. Well, it seems to me that this is just like

any other exchange on a message board. Someone freely posts something, knowing full well that they may not like some of the responses they get. This guy posted what he did, some people disagree. Call it "beating up" if you must, but the OP seems to be handling it just fine, even without the "holier than thou" defenses offered on his behalf.

And I see your position is running low on gas, hence the baseless freeper questions. :(

[JuniperLea]

75. Baseless

is yet another opinion.

[ContraBass Black]

77. As are your words. n/t

[hiaasenrocks]

83. Actually, the more I read those words...

the more obvious it is that they're not really saying anything, other than saying just enough to make themselves appear to be a hypocrite.

That person clearly has no serious position on this discussion, and now we're off into a tangent about their freeper fantasy.

Great.

[JuniperLea]

90. Ah yes, the voice of reason

That speaks out against rudeness. Nice touch.

[ContraBass Black]

91. Come again?

I'm not catching your irony. Spell it out to me, please.

[hiaasenrocks]

79. Ah, good then.

I'll await the evidence that supports your freeper accusation.

How much time do you need?

[ContraBass Black]

82. It's gonna be a while.

I'm still waiting to hear who my buddy is and what lesson we're trying to teach.

[hiaasenrocks]

86. Oh, two baseless accusations? LOL

I can see where we're headed with this genius.

I'll check back later for the results. :)

[ContraBass Black]

87. I thought we were having a productive discussion about manners.

I don't know what happened.

[JuniperLea]

88. My crystal ball is on the fritz

Who knows?

;)

[hiaasenrocks]

151. That's what I thought.

[OnyxCollie]

94. Wow. 80 responses on my second post ever. Nice.

Look, I see Bush bumperstickers all the time. Pisses me off that people support him, but hey, that's their First Amendment right to do so. Now, I see someone remove the sticker from their car. They've changed their postition. They maybe realize:

Hey, Bush isn't the straight shooter he made himself out to be.
He wants to nuke Iran?!?!?!
He's a liar.

Whatever. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And, because I think people are generally good, I give them the benefit of the doubt that they were misled to believe Bush was good for the country. I let them know that I hold no hard feelings against them for their actions. Yeah, the note was preachy, and had I more time I would have worded it differently, but what I wanted to get across was that now we're on the same team.

Leaving notes on someone's car is something I've never done before. Vandalizing someone's car is something I've never done before (and still haven't). They put the sticker on their car. They decided to remove it. I just wanted to forgive them for their actions.

[ContraBass Black]

96. Congratulations!

And welcome to DU.

I don't know that a written note under the wiper can convey that sentiment well. I think the preaching outshone the message.

If you want to try again, you might do something like leave the URL for a leftward site, or try to meet up with the owner.

[ContraBass Black]

100. 100 replies!

Take a bow.

[OnyxCollie]

105. Thank you! Thank you very much.

:toast:

[mondo joe]

142. What "hate" are you talking about? Is disagreeing with someone

"hate" now?

I wish DU would get over its hate fetish.

[hiaasenrocks]

15. It would have been better if you had

put your real name on it, and stood by your statements. I had a RW'er put an anonymous note on my car about a bumper sticker that I had. My immediate and only thought was: What a coward.

[ContraBass Black]

28. I would take that as a pompous rubbing in and be insulted

If it were my car.

"I am glad you now see the error of your ways."

"You are forgiven."

If a right winger had left a similar note on my car after any of the times the Bush administration claimed to have found WMD, I would have turned rainbow colors with rage.

[OnyxCollie]

44. I had seven minutes to get to class and no thesaurus.

I didn't have time for a rewrite.

[ContraBass Black]

49. Changing individual words wouldn't make me like it.

[fishwax]

70. i would take it that way too

it strikes me as condescending.

[Change has come]

29. Maybe the bushbot sold the van?

Maybe you forgave the new owner that can't stand * either? Glad you didn't beat anybody over the head though.

[Nitrogenica]

39. I love your note! Very nice.

May I use that text?

[OnyxCollie]

52. Be my guest.

Just don't mention it here.

FLAMES!

[blue cat]

59. I see no problem what soever.

It may have made him mad, but oh well. No destruction, no problem. I may have done the same thing if I would have thought about it.

[mopinko]

63. i love getting notes on my windshield.

actually, this is my old car. i now have my old suburban similarly adorned.

i mostly get good notes. but i occasionally get a little tirade. all in a days work, pissing off the radical right.

[ContraBass Black]

76. Is it a diesel?

[mopinko]

93. i wish

sadly, it is now a crushed cube.

[ContraBass Black]

95. Aww.

What happened?

[mopinko]

101. just couldn't afford to keep dumping money into her.

broke my heart. if she didn't have so much body rot, i would have kept trying. i loved that car.
really, tho, she never got over the election. seriously, she worked so hard for kerry, then she just lost heart, started blowing smoke, and coughing.

[ContraBass Black]

107. Here's my dead ride.

I still carry the key.

It drove like a dream. When it would move, that is.

EDIT: Sorry, pic is too big and I don't have time to resize it now.

[uppityperson]

68. nice note

not insulting, just straightforward. Civil. Good note.

[fishwax]

74. I don't see this as productive

It's preferable to vandalizing the sticker, but I'm not sure what this kind of thing accomplishes. If you'd had the chance to actually see the driver and engage in conversation about it, that might've led somewhere ...

[wordpix2]

80. ahahahahaa

[mondo joe]

84. Sounds more like you wanted to be superior than you wanted to bring

someone along, especially with the "you are forgiven" bit.

Too bad.

[BlueStorm]

89. Well I think that it was cool

that you told this person about their change of mind.

I am not sure though if it was the person who owned the vehicle who rippped it off or if it was someone else.

I've had bumberstickers ripped off my vehicle and it ticked me off since I paid for them.

Blue

[Emit]

92. I'm surprised you're getting so much flack for this

Anyway, I thought it was a good note.

[Lefty48197]

97. Here's what I would have written:

You STUPID fuck. You voted for the worst President in American history, and that makes you the WORST voter in American history. The dumb fuck you voted for is ruining this nation and the world. It's all your fault. You voted for him, and that makes you an enemy of the American people, and it makes you a traitor. You will likely fry in hell for your evil deed, so I suggest you buy a cot, move into the nearest church and spend the rest of your life praying for your own God-damned salvation, because you sure as hell need it. Good luck, fuck-head.

[ContraBass Black]

99. That would have been even more counterproductive.

:rofl:

[OnyxCollie]

102. That's what I think whenever I see a bush bumpersticker. nt

[DancingBear]

106. Well, here's what I do if someone leaves a note on my windshield

1) I look for accompanying damage to the car. If I find any, I call the police, parking authorities, etc.

2) If none, I read the note.

3) If I like it, I smile. If I don't, I recycle it.

***EXCEPTION: The guy who hit my mailbox with his car, then left a note inside that said (all caps) "YOUR MAILBOX IS TOO CLOSE TO THE FUCKING ROAD, ASSHOLE." First I showed that to Jim the Postmaster, who agreed that it was OK to move the box to the other side of the road, near my driveway. Then I kept it - it makes a great conversation starter.

4) Either way, I don't think too much more about it.

And hey, maybe the guy took it off because his "George Bush Is Jesus Christ, Only Smarter" sticker was waiting at home. :)

Much ado about nothing, methinks.

[OnyxCollie]

110. LOL!

Yeah, I'll have to see what's on his bumper Wednesday.

[FredScuttle]

109. What if the sticker was ripped off to make room for a "Frist '08" sticker?

I have to weigh in on the side of inappropriate, dude...Vince Vega was right, you don't mess with another person's ride, no matter how innocuous the act. If I returned to my car while some freeper was leaving a note, I can assure you I wouldn't be thanking him.

[Earth_First]

114. Contrary to popular belief, this is not "direct action"

Instead, what this does, is incite individuals who already vote for irrational politicians to act in a similarly irrational manner. Sometimes resulting in vandalism to your own vehicle. Perhaps it's not even your vehicle that ends up vandalized. It may be some innocent Democrat with a Spitzer 2006 bumper sticker, et. al.

[KAZ]

119. They put on note on the windshield!!

What don't you get about that. There was no vandalism. What the hell is the matter with this board lately?

[ContraBass Black]

120. He's talking about the possibility of the car owner

flying into a rage and vandalizing something.

[KAZ]

122. Yeah, you're right. Sorry.

Just can't get over the reaction on the board tonight.

[bainz]

121. stalk much?

"I could have beat them over the head for voting for Chimpy (and really, I would have liked to)"

I can only hope that the driver of the vehicle was, in fact the person who voted for *, rather than the vehicle owner's son/daughter/babysitter/etc, just in case you did decide to physically assault them.

/checks post count
//guess I'll get an Alert/freeper accusation

[KAZ]

125. Yes, duly alerted.

Think much?

[Neil Lisst]

127. haha!

You'll definitely be on someone's list. Hell, those of us with thousands of post get called Freepers here daily. Sometimes I suspect THOSE are the freepers, the ones who always say shit like that.

[OnyxCollie]

133. I won't accuse you of being a freeper.

But I will accuse you of taking things literally.

[Texasgal]

137. I'm sorry, I am going to be nice here...

But I completely disagree with what you did.

If you are seriously looking to make a difference, why not join your local Dem chapter and start canvassing or volunteering for the 06' elections? Make a real difference!

Wasting time leaving a note on someones care is silly and makes no difference, I am glad that you are proud of yourself, but to me it was a bit tacky.

[OnyxCollie]

139. My job is to canvass for environmental and human rights issues.

What do you do?

On edit: Still waiting.

[Texasgal]

153. Well I do alot with my local Dem chapter here..

I volunteer for an animal rescue group and also volunteer as a food sorter for hungry families... I am also an RN who put in countless volunteer hours in at the county ER to aid with Hurricane rita victims.

What I don't do is waste my time putting silly messages on peoples cars.

Please don't be upset with me, I just disagree with your method, that's all. Finding something more useful to do would win alot of respect here from the naysayers.

[YouthInAsia]

138. I had my car keyed to all hell for all my anti-bu$h stickers

and they're not even nasty. Typical reich a-holes, I suppose!

[Jigarotta]

140. you did exceptionally well, bravo

rubbing noses in dirt to just get personal satisfaction is not the way to go.

just think about any travesties, how hugely smaller than that, you have done. Would you rather get nose rubbed and get your back up again, or just go forward with acceptance and forgiveness?

[KyuzoGator]

156. Write on windshields with dry-erase marker.

Gets the points across without the permanent damage.

[ScreamingMeemie]

159. Because I would not someone leaving a note on my windshield for

my political beliefs, I will not put one on theirs. I don't condemn you, I just don't think much of these practices because we would be horrified/pissed if someone did this to us. :hi:

[jukes]

169. blackops

GOOD JOB!

[Fenris]

172. Locking.

Promoting vandalism.