Legal Citizens are Hard Workers Too.

[Coexist]

I have heard a lot from people who ask "who will clean your toilets" and "who will cut your grass" and "who will clean your pool" if we no longer turn a blind eye to illegal immigration.

Well - I have to say - in my PERSONAL experience, in the suburbs of Florida, that I don't see a lot of illegal immigrants doing these things.

We do have a lawn service - we have gone through three since we have lived here and all of them were born-here citizens doing this as side work to make extra money. One of them was actually a neighbor who did tile work and had a baby, so needed some extra income. A lot of these jobs are done as SECOND jobs to supplement income because wages are so low.

When, at our last home, we had a pool, the two pool guys we had were born-here citizens who started their own businesses doing this after working for someone else cleaning pools for years. We have a very good friend who cleans pools as a business. He has a nice home, his wife works full-time too. He is now in the middle of getting his license to install pools too. Pool cleaning is a year-round business in Florida.

I personally have two neighbors in my nice suburban neighborhood (who live in nice homes and have husbands with good-paying jobs) who have home-cleaning services on the side. They do this to help make extra money for the family. They are not ashamed to do it - prices are going up and they are willing to clean their neighbor's toilets so they can stay in their preferred home in a great school district. Their husbands income's don't cut it with the cost of fuel and food and they are picking up the slack. One of them is a school teacher.

Now - I live in a cookie-cutter new home community, and I was the fourth house built here, so I saw the rest of them go up. The roofing crews that worked in the hot sun on that black sheeting were 80% caucasian-looking. I say that because I did not check their ethnicity - but there was a Port-O-Let right outside my driveway for 3 months and I saw many of them come and go all day long.

Three of these jobs are outdoor jobs done all summer long in the Florida sun, heat and humidity. Miserable for about six months of the year. Probably WAY pleasant during the other six, but still.

Of course, this is just my personal experience, but this board has been flooded with ignorant assumptions about lazy Americans and I am sick of it.

And I am not afraid of "brown people" - my older two children are half "brown" so save that shit for another thread.

In my lifetime, I have been a bartender, waitress, chambermaid, substitute teacher and stay-at-home mom. If I had to go back to being a chambermaid because we had fallen on hard times, I would. One neighbor whose husband makes six-figures had a huge falling out with her spouse over her over-spending and took a job as a cashier at the local supermarket to pay off her overages. Of course, she was the only cashier who got her smock dry-cleaned, but you know what? I was proud of her. She waited on people who smirked about her circumstances behind her back, but showed up every day anyway.

My son started his own Christmas lights hanging business last November for extra money and my daughter will be starting work at the supermarket this summer to save money for a car. My neighbor's kids have worked as waitresses and for pool-cleaning services during their breaks, too.

So anyway, please spare me the "stuff Americans won't do" already. We are hard workers and take pride in helping out our households when we are needed.

FYI - my husband, who is in construction, would like me to add that in his experience, teams of Mexican drywallers pound out sheets faster than born-here crews.

[Boojatta]

1. If undocumented workers are given status as legal residents and

if legal residents are not hard workers, then is there a risk that an amnesty proposal will create a new need for hard workers?

[Coexist]

2. You make me laugh.

:silly:

[Boojatta]

4. Perhaps I should have asked this: "If legal citizens are not hard workers,

then how long does it take, after a person becomes a legal citizen, for that person to no longer be a hard worker?"

[Coexist]

5. I understood.

My point was that the generalization that Citizens are not hard workers makes your point amusing. Will all the "hard-working" illegal immigrants suddenly become "lazy Americans" once they get their Social Security number?

It boggles the mind.

[shamrock]

3. yes

I'm also tired of hearing how fat, lazy, white and rich we all are. Tell my sore swollen hands, or my husband's arthritic fingers how lazy we are. Maybe the wealthy hire someone else to clean their toilets and mow their lawns, but most of us do it ourselves.

[Cobalt Violet]

17. I thinks some of these people can't even flush there own toilet...

let alone clean it. I guess they think their shit don't stick.

[Sinti]

6. It's not the work -- it's the pay -- will you work for $2.75 hr? n/t

[lastliberalintexas]

9. Employers can only pay that little because they are illegals

Employers like that nice little republican jackass known as Bo Pilgrim have the hammer of the INS to pound their illegal workers into submission. Unwilling to work 14 hour days for $2/hr? I'll call the INS. Unwilling to continue working even though sick.injured? I'll just call the INS. Unwilling to work in unsafe conditions? I'll just call the INS.

Employers couldn't do that to a worker who was legally in this country or who is a citizen of this country. And THAT, my friend, is why Corporate America is pushing so hard for these guest worker programs which drive down wages.


Nope, I'm not afraid of or opposed to "others" coming here, either. EMPLOYERS are the "enemy", not other workers.

[Sinti]

11. This is exactly what happens

You work when I say where I say for how much I say, or I'll call the INS. I know where you stay, and that there are other illegal folks living there, as well. I have heard this with my own ears. They can't complain and can't quit, once the boss finds out they don't have documentation, or they risk having the INS show up at their doorstep and busting them, along with anyone else who lives with them and lacks documentation.

It's still more than they had at home, though.

[Coexist]

15. there was someone on Thom Hartmann the other day

who was describing the migrant situation of his youth.

He said, "they would come in and say we pay on Fridays and we have sex on Wednesdays."

For real.

[Coexist]

10. as a waitress, I worked for less than that.

but jobs where there are no tips are not allowed to pay that little. What is your point?

[Sinti]

12. They are allowed to pay that little and less to an illegal n/t

[nonconformist]

13. She's right, actually

It's not the jobs Americans won't do, it's the slave wages that Americans won't work for.

It's an important distinction that needs to be made.

[Deja Q]

20. Exactly. It's about the money and so many DUers are so blinded by the

usual "repubs hijacking Dem ideals against us" modus operandi that I can't stop shaking my head in utter disbelief.

Oh, they will take long periods of time to rationalize things, but it's still rationalization and tapdancing around the reality of the situation. Supporting exploitation and near-slave labor.

Even slaves had room and board. Today one is paid so little the entire family has to pitch in... and they're too busy and getting tired from cheap jobs TO study and better their lives. And that's what our leaders seem to want. After all, an educated populace thinks - and thinking is never a good thing in a dictatorship. Or that's whay DUers keep saying about Bush... so you bet I'm confused.



And if anybody bothered to read my posts; I am clearly not against immigration. I am about loyalty to one's country; not leaving the previous country only to wave its flag above America's... And a great line from John F Kennedy that is one all Americans should be thinking about.

[Trailrider1951]

23. Damn, Hypnotoad, where did you get those pics?

Joanne Linville in Star Trek original? YES,I'm old enough to remember that! LOL. Give me more!

[mntleo2]

7. 15.00 Per Hour Would Attract ANYONE

...as well as some benefits and the security the job would be there tomorrow.

What I am saying here is that Americans would do just about anything for a livable wage, no matter what job it is.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Coexist]

16. yes, they would

some even work more than one job.

Imagine that.

[Deja Q]

21. Precisely. And who made the cost of living so high in America?

Corporate leaders; whose wage (600x that of the average worker) never seems to be enough for them...

[nonconformist]

8. Not to even mention that mantra is racist to the core

The "they do work Americans won't do" crap, besides being totally false, is extremely insulting.

My husband is in construction too - he works with an independent contractor who bids on mining jobs like building roads and whatnot. He's also out of work right now. *heavy sigh*

[Coexist]

14. Yes, I think it is insulting.

I have done *tons* of shitty work for minimum wage.

[Cobalt Violet]

19. Perhaps this wife of a surgeon can give your husband career advise too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=907715&mesg_id=908007

[Coexist]

22. I was following that thread, and was tempted to jump in a couple times

but slapped my wrist and moved on.

My main thing (besides the broad brush "all immigrants are hard workers" insanity) was the mention of Cuban immigrants.

It brings me back to the Haitian immigrants and the whole economic-refugee vs. political-refugee fight. I lived in Ft. Lauderdale then, whoo boy, what a mess that was.

Funny thing was, for some reason, no one was defending the Haitians, saying what hard workers they were. Back then it was "they are all lazy and want our welfare." But then again, Reagan and the welfare queen crap was still fresh in people's minds.

[mntleo2]

24. About the Only "Welfare Queens" We Have Here

Are corporate pigs who have little of no problem with trashing the company, laying off thousands and making off with their golden parachutes (ala Boeing, for instance).

BTW, talk about taking advantage of the situation for Boeing....here in Seattle, only THREE DAYS after 9/11, Boeing sadly told Seattle they would have to lay off 40,000 people due to 9/11. I am not a Boeing worker, but I asked at that time why they knew so soon that the airplane industry was going to be so depressed? A few months before 9/11, they moved their 100 year old headquarters to Chicago, telling us at the time not to worry, there was nothing to see here, move along now... Now they have abandoned a factory they strong armed the city of Kent to build, wrecking farmlands and wetlands, and guess who gets to figure out what to do with the hundreds of acres of spoiled land? Oh and we have to support, re-educate, and re-employ the now 70,000 workers they abandoned. Why, the state of Washington, of course! Since almost 20% of their income is the average percentage of taxes a poor person pays, hey, not only do average Washingtonians "get" to compete with thousands of ex-Boeing workers for livable wage employment, they get to pay for it too! After all this disruption, Boeing's top CEO bailed, taking millions with him for his bonus.

Aren't the rich SO patriotic, SO civic, So generous? I am blatantly classist now. I wonder why...

Cat In Seattle

[Cobalt Violet]

18. K& R.

Thanks for posting this. I so much agree with you. I have notice how rampant and insulting some have become. Condescending too. Like the wife of a surgeon really has a clue as to what a struggling working person has to endure.