WHOA! Quote from Hersh's The Coming Wars ties into Plame outing

[Roland99]

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact

In my interviews, I was repeatedly told that the next strategic target was Iran. “Everyone is saying, ‘You can’t be serious about targeting Iran. Look at Iraq,’ ” the former intelligence official told me. “But they say, ‘We’ve got some lessons learned—not militarily, but how we did it politically. We’re not going to rely on agency pissants.’ No loose ends, and that’s why the C.I.A. is out of there.”

Remember, Hersh wrote this over a year ago and we all remember the incredible pieces done by Larisa at RawStory of late, esp. the one about the damage done to the CIA due to Plame's outing (she was working on WMD proliferation in/out of Iran).

With the CIA out of the way, the Pentagon intelligence agencies have free reign to produce any kind of evidence they want and submit it to the public after being massaged.

IMO, war with Iran is inevitable.



EDIT: Here's that RawStory article:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Outed_CIA_officer_was_working_on_0213.html

[bee]

1. k&r. scary shit. n.t

[snappyturtle]

2. K&R OMG!!!! nt

[Darkhawk32]

3. Iraq's insurgency and resistance has thwarted Bush's invasion of Iran...

for over 2 years. I'm sure if everything went "swimmingly" in Iraq, we'd already be in Iran.

[Roland99]

4. This ties in with Ledeen's meetings, too. They *were* about Iran!

[KurtNYC]

5. The Guardian says people already being killed

However, Mr Cannistraro said covert military action, in the form of special forces troops identifying targets and aiding dissident groups, is already under way.

"It's been authorised, and it's going on to the extent that there is some lethality to it. Some people have been killed."

He said US-backed Baluchi Sunni guerrillas had been involved in an attack in Sistan-Baluchistan last month in which over 20 Iranian government officials were killed and the governor of the provincial capital was wounded. The Iranian government had blamed British intelligence for the incident.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1750680,00.html

[Roland99]

8. I don't doubt it. I wrote this after Hersh spoke here in town last March.

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/03/04/an-audience-with-seymour-hersh/

In regards to Iran, Hersh stated that his contacts and research points to four different groups of U.S. Special Forces being in place in Iran. A member of the audience questioned Hersh’s credibility and accused him of harboring an anti-Bush bias. Hersh replied to the written question that the articles he writes are based upon information from his contacts, many of which are very high up in the intelligence community, the Pentagon, and the government and his information usually shows up a few weeks later in the mainstream media as accepted fact. He hasn’t been wrong yet. Hersh only reveals the names of his sources when allowed to do so. Most of his contacts, however, work in intelligence and revealing their names would compromise their safety and their jobs. Hersh did say that some high-ranking Pentagon officials are very critical and upset with the Bush administration but are unable to make public comments to that effect. As far as Hersh’s comments that fighting with Iran is imminent, he was told that if he wrote the piece correctly, there wouldn’t be a fight (meaning, if he uncovered enough information and enough people read it and criticized the Bush administration, an invasion or an attack on Iran would not happen.) Hersh also tossed aside talk of a draft stating the Pentagon doesn’t want to see an influx of people who do not want to fight and, also, getting a draft through Congress would be very difficult right now.

The general sentiment coming out of Hersh’s speech and the question-and-answer segment was that the Bush administration was selling fear in the name of a mission to do God’s work, on a very selective basis. Hersh is genuinely frightened of this administration and its penchant to do anything and say anything with almost total impunity. Hersh also was of the belief that our media is all but complicit in the fear mongering coming from the Bush administration, failing to be objective and critical of the government, as its job should be. The mega-media companies that have resulted in the wake of the FCC deregulation have harmed the credibility of our media and the American public is not protesting as effectively as the anti-war demonstrators during the Vietnam era.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

53. Protests are much more effective with media coverage

the American public is not protesting as effectively as the anti-war demonstrators during the Vietnam era.

M$M lying about the number of protesters or ignoring anti-war protests altogether makes is harder now that it was during Vietnam.

[Roland99]

54. Look at how quickly anti-immigration bill protestors organized

If we could get 500,000 (without groups like A.N.S.W.E.R. involved) marching on Washington D.C. and tens of thousands in every major city in America, it would make the news.

[Just Me]

10. US-backed Sunni guerrillas!!!! That could explain the Shiite mosque bombs

,...as well.

x( By definition, we're financing terrorism. Fuck! x(

[mom cat]

20. And US backed Shite Death Squads paid by the same source.

Sectarian violence is a black opps venture meant to keep the situation in chaos so "we can't leave".

[Just Me]

6. The Bushco/neocon regime have nothing to lose and lotsa profits to gain.

I don't understand those who refuse to take this regime quite seriously. The PNAC plan has not been altered. The PNACers are still standing on their "vision".

CONFLICT. WITH. IRAN. WILL. HAPPEN.

world war will follow

life will suck

UNLESS, this regime is stopped by those who can stop it.

[Burried News]

62. Agree and they have a President exactly where they want him.

Right about now I see the NeoCONS saying: go to Iran or we let you get impeached.

[SeattleRob]

7. K&R!!! ! Very true! NT

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. I've said this from day one.

Even before they illegally invaded Iraq. They needed Iraq as their staging area. They needed a place to build SUPER MILITARY BASES, which have been built. It's all part of the PNAC agenda. It's all written down in black and white. Syria's next after Iran. WORLD DOMINATION...HEGEMONY.

Where's Lawrence Eagleburger now??? Remember this?

<snip>13 April 2003 former U.S. Secretary of State (under President Bush Sr., no less!) Lawrence Engleburger told the BBC:


"If George Bush decided he was going to turn the troops loose on Syria and Iran after that he would last in office for about 15 minutes. In fact if President Bush were to try that now even I would think that he ought to be impeached. You can't get away with that sort of thing in this democracy."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4229.htm

[Roland99]

11. Chomsky's been nailing these people for years and he's been ignored

by the establishment and the M$M.

[stop the bleeding]

12. Ding, ding, ding people are finally getting why Brewster Jennings was

outed -

It will take 10 years for our CIA to repair the damage suffured to Plame's counter proliferation network.

see what robertpaulsen said here on a related thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=894299&mesg_id=895080

[robertpaulsen]

14. Now I'm scared. I didn't even think about what Hersh said.

I don't think it's "wild speculation" to say the Plame outing was all about setting up Iranian regime change by getting Brewster Jennings out of Iran. I think it is certainty.

Here's some related threads:

PLAME/AIPACGATE UPDATE: OSP tried to plant WMD in Iraq.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=60048

PLAME= IRAN/CONTRA REDUX - Planted WMD from Ghorbanifar & Ledeen.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x66847

Ledeen, Ghorbanifar, and the strategy of tension
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=118064

RawStory: Outed CIA officer was working on Iran, intelligence sources say
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2105487

**Iraq, Niger Forgeries, And The CIA - Plamegate people this is for you!**
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=307049

[Roland99]

15. Larisa has been all over this like white on rice. In her own interview

the other day, she seems to imply something along these lines, too, but she couldn't comment on it any further than she had already.



Iraq was a staging ground. Setup large bases and surround Iran and implement a "squeeze play" from Iraq and Afghanistan.

[lala_rawraw]

16. god remember the beating i took when I reported that

Plame working on Iran???? And now I am hearing people discuss this as though
sy reported that... thanks for pointing out that I had reported this earlier and mentioned it again in the interview. Means a great deal.

[Roland99]

17. Your work means a great deal to us (and possibly the nation)

and I'm not exaggerating.


And, if you think about this, it's damn near strategic genius for this to have worked out as it has (for the US to be positioned to squeeze Iran from both sides). HOWEVER, the ramifications of such a move haven't been considered or at least fully considered and that's what I fear the most, esp. if they use bunker-busting nukes against Iran. It's just pure and simple mad-scientist foreign policy!

[stop the bleeding]

21. ditto here as well Larisa - here is a thread on your interview with Luke

and it fell like a stone, thanks again for all of your work.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=893209&mesg_id=893209

[Pachamama]

24. I remember first hearing you reference that Plame was working on Iran!

Love your hard-working mind! :hi: I remember that when I first heard it brought up from you, and then I told people about that concept, I too got "beat up" as that being a prepostorous theory/tinfoil hat moment. Then just this weekend, I handed several people the Sy Hersh story and reminded them of the link of Plame/Iran etc. and they saw the connection and picture just light up in their mind about the situation and why Plame was outed, why Brewster Jennings was outed, why we are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I also went to an event on Saturday with Robert Redford and Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey. When I had some time with Lynn, I told her about Sy's article and these connections w/ Plame/Brewster Jennings/ and Iran. She gets it. She and I stood there talking for atleast 15 minutes about it and the realization that this is where its all leading. We both were sick to our stomachs.

Today when * issued his denials about the possibilities of nuclear plans for Iran, it simply sounded more like "thou protesteth too much"....

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that these sick mofos have plans to go into Iran and to start WWIII. And who is going to stop them? :eyes:

[tblue37]

42. This bothers me:

When I had some time with Lynn, I told her about Sy's article and these connections w/ Plame/Brewster Jennings/ and Iran.

Why don't our lawmakers already know this stuff? Aren't they keeping abreast of major stories in major news outlets? Don't they have staff to keep up with clippings for them?

[Roland99]

43. Makes you wonder how dedicated our elected leaders really are.

Are they actually working to find out what's going on or just paying lip service to the voters?

[Pachamama]

48. Don't paint Lynn Woolsey as someone who isn't dedicated or working hard to

find out what is going on....She is well aware of what is going on and trying to fight the bastards...

[Roland99]

51. I haven't really heard of her, how hard is she fighting?

Is she onboard with Conyers?

[Pachamama]

47. No fair - Lynn Woolsey is one of the people in Congress fighting hardest

to take on the Bush Crime Family! She was the first member of Congress to demand that the troops be pulled out of Iraq (when it was far from fashionable to demand it) and she is very aware of their designs on Iran.

The Sy Hersh article was published just late last week, its 10 pages long and I saw her on Saturday. Sure, they have staffers that keep them posted and she probably had it in a pile of things to read...I just made sure that I printed out a copy for her and mentioned it to her.

[Roland99]

52. Well, ok. Sounds like she's one of the good ones, then!

[lala_rawraw]

45. Thanks, really

I got slammed by the left more so than the right on this. Unreal. I was going to quit. In any case, it will come out about Iran. And even today I was listening to Randi Rhodes, who thought it first rumor when I reported it and now she is talking about it, minus me. I don't know if it is because I am one of the few female journos on this beat (Laura Rozen and Dana Priest are the others) and I am (or we girls are) scooping the boys or if it is because I write for small press and we are scooping the MSM or a combo of both, but the left mainstream has slammed me into the ground and then later uses my work without attribution. I am stunned usually at how cowardly and childish it all is. But then I remind myself that I am in good company and that they are going after me, even the journos who are too lazy to do their jobs, because I am a threat in some way. In any case, whatever the reason, it gets too much sometimes, so it was nice to see someone point this out. So thank you also and the above comments as well. It really matters and I point out DU whereever I appear or speak:)

[robertpaulsen]

61. Keep fighting the good fight!

I don't understand this animosity from the left toward you at all. You post some good possibilities as for the reasons why, and I understand how that can be discouraging. But please, PLEASE don't let this beat go! Bottom line, you're hitting the nail on the head while the rest are literally beating around the Bush. Keep it up!

[lala_rawraw]

64. Well it is theory

but I pretty much see it as follows:

from non-mainstream left, the character traits of a good integrity assassin:
competition (which is silly, as the left has no luxury for that now)
ego (human nature at its ugliest)
small penis size (this would usually identify someone from the right posing as someone from the left);)
self loathing (clearly someone competing against their own self interests, operating with an ego that is out of control, and either planted or sadly born with a small member, would really hate themselves, no?)

from non-mainstream right, the character traits of a good integrity assassin:
2 operational brain cells (one to eat with and one to watch Fox with)
guilt over sexuality, lack of sexuality, and inability to get penis operational (speaks for itself)
fear of women (because their mothers breast fed them until they were well past pubescence)
god-complex (they want to be god and believe that god hates them at the same time)
self loathing (because stupidity, minus sex, limp member, fear of women, wanting the uber papa's approval and wanting to make up for limpy pee pee, would make psychos out of anyone, no?)

from MSM, the character traits of a good integrity assassin:
American Express
Visa
MasterCard
Fancy Dinners
etc.

and finally, other women, that is women who attack women in various ways... there are only three reasons for this:
-they want to be you
-they want to sleep with you
-they want to be better than you

and that usually stems from not reading enough Betty or Gloria and instead watching Heathers too many times. i say intervention!!

how is that for silly theories?

[Burried News]

63. Not attributing it to you may have been a favor.

Being in the lead on this kind of stuff is dangerous. I am definitely not in your league but I have been very happy to see blockbuster ideas spread without a linkage. There is safety in numbers. And there are too many David Kelley's as it is.
Thanks for all you have done.

[Swamp Rat]

46. Namasté Pachamama

We've known all along, have we not? :hug:

... there is so little time my friend. We must hurry! yet at the same time slow down...

[Pachamama]

49. Yes, we have known and seen this coming...

Hi Swamp'r :hug:

It's all happening so fast, isn't it? I've been feeling very overwhelmed lately and like you, dealing with the business of flood/hurricane damage and recovery and life in general, but I am watching this all unfold and feel sick. How can Americans not see what is happening? I am so frightened for our country's future. I am worried about what is coming for us all...I feel so helpless and frustrated. I have been so "tired" of late, and yet I'm trying to gather my energy, because I know my strength is going to be needed in the near future.

[Raksha]

40. Larisa, I want you to know I believed you from the first

about the connection between Brewster-Jennings and Iran, and why they had to be "neutralized" by BushCo. It makes even more sense now than it did then. And it's SCARY...terrifying, in fact.

[robertpaulsen]

18. What's scary about this "squeeze".

From an archived thread:

German media: U.S. preparing Iran strike
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2013189


happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec-30-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
33. In Invasion of Iran is a NIGHTMARE

Not the the US can NOT defeat Iran, we can be in Tehran within two weeks, but like Iraq that is when the fun begins. You will need the Draft just to replace the people being killed in BOTH Iran and Iraq (and whenever we invade Iran, the Shiites in Iraq will revolt, forcing the US to send Troops to help the British.

Now, Bush can not afford a draft, his support will fizzle as will the Support for the GOP. Basically the Draft is the Kiss of Death, thus I doubt the US will invade Iran. The costs are to high domestically. I believe the Pentagon brass has convinced Bush and Company that unless Bush figures out a way to get more people to enlist an attack on Iran can not occur, the alternative, a Draft, is politically unacceptable so no invasion will occur. The US just do NOT have the Ground forces to hold Iraq and invade and hold Iran at the same time. There are ways to use present troops levels to do both, but then you have no troops to rotate back home for training and the troops become more occupying police than an Army and as such become more and more useless as an army as times goes on (the best example of this was the Army Of The Republic of Vietnam,the ARVN, the ARVN had been nothing but an occupying police force since its inception, no real training done in maneuver, just patrols to look for Viet Cong, as such it was incapable of doing maneuver warfare when in 1974 when North Vietnam invaded). Such permanent "policing" armies do NOT really convert to a proper army (thus why the ARVN failed to stop the North Vietnamese Army in 1974). Such an Army get so tied up in policing that its ability to fight quickly disappears (and to avoid this is one of the reason the US has been rotating Units from Iraq back to the States).

Now, the report uses the term "Attack" and that can include an Air Attack on Iran without the use of ground forces. The US has the Air Force to do such an Attack, it will NOT be as easy as Iraq but losses on the US Side will be minimal. This is even a worse nightmare. Iran controls the whole Northern Coast of the Persian Gulf. Without ground forces to deny Iran access to that Coast, Iran can put its anti-Ship Missiles anywhere along that coast AND PROHIBIT ANY OIL FROM COMING FROM KUWAIT, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the Rest of the Gulf Coast states. Furthermore Iran has missiles that can reach the Arabian main export port and thus capable of Destroying that port's ability to export oil. Iran also has support in that part of Arabia so it is possible for a terrorist attack on those and other oil facilities could be done. Sooner or later Iran, if attacked, will force the US to break off the Air Attack so that Iran will stops its attacks OR invade Iran and you get the real problem mentioned above in invading Iran.

I can see up to 50% of world wide oil production just stop within a week of such an attack. Such a Shortage will force the US into a Recession AND force the Pentagon to tell the President that he has to adopt some plan to end the Iranian attacks (i.e. stop the air attacks OR invade). Thus you back to the problem of Invading Iran OR quiting the Air Attacks. Bush will NOT want to appear "weak" so he will invade, the Invasion will succeed like it did in Iraq, but then you have an increase in unrest in Iraq (Mostly in the now quiet Shiite Section of Iraq) and guerrillas attacks on the American Forces in Iran. Bush will have to bring back the Draft just to replace the men (and women) being lost in these attacks. That will lead to domestic unrest as young people refuse to get drafted. You may even have riots (AND THAT MAY BE WHAT BUSH WANTS, RIOTS TO JUSTIFY MARTIAL LAW for the riots are hurting the troops and part of the same "terrorist agenda to destroy American").

I dread the above Nightmare, but maybe it is what Bush and Cheney wants,for it can lead to a dictatorship. Remember Bush's debacle on Social Security, Bush still wants to kill Social Security so maybe Bush believes the only way to kill Social Security is in a Dictatorship. Thus with an Invasion of Iran, he gets the Draft, he gets Riots, he uses the Riots to abolish Civil Liberties, he than passes by Decree to make his tax cut to the Rich and Abolish Social Security.

I just can not make myself to believe Bush is so devilish, the above may just be Bush Blundering (i.e. he wants to invade Iran and cares less of the Consequences, and when the Consequences are pointed out to him, he sees them as opportunities to further what he wants to do instead of the disaster they will be). I lean to Bush NOT thinking through the consequences of his actions, as oppose to it being an intentional plot, but the results will be the same, disaster in the US, in the World and In the Middle East. I also believe the Pentagon professional Staff are leaking this out so that people will Stop Bush, but Bush's propaganda machine is so good it is just NOT getting to the Majority of People (when it does the GOP as a whole backs off, thus saving the GOP from Bush's follies for now). The problem I see is in a Dictatorship this check will disappear and with it the GOP. I can see riots and even revolution as people say they want their Social Security (Remember young people, if SS is abolished who is going to take care of your aged parents and grandparents, are you going to leave them die in the streets? The answer to that is no, thus once SS is abolished you will see blood in the Streets, which is something the GOP wants to avoid but Bush seems not to care about one way or another.

Sorry about this rant, but the complications of what Bush is doing is to big to be said is a few words, the complexities are so great you have to view them all together to see what a disaster he is leading this nation into.


robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan-02-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
130. One more equation to throw into your great analysis: Syria.

If we conduct air strikes on Iran, either through proxy (Israel) or going it alone, here is another aspect of the retaliation we will face:

Joint Iran/Syria defense pact (If one country is attacked, the other will come to their aid militarily)

Iran and Syria Confront US With Defense Pact
by Ewen MacAskill in Beirut and Duncan Campbell


Iran and Syria heightened tension across the Middle East and directly confronted the Bush administration yesterday by declaring they had formed a mutual self-defense pact to confront the "threats" now facing them.

The move, which took the Foreign Office by surprise, was announced after a meeting in Tehran between the Iranian vice-president, Mohammed Reza Aref, and the Syrian prime minister, Naji al-Otari.

"At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges," said Mr Otari.

more...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0217-02.htm

IRAN, SYRIA ENTER MUTUAL DEFENSE PACT
Same story, but with this scary * quote:

Addressing the question of a potential nuclear Iran at a news conference on Thursday, Bush shied away from ruling out an Israeli offensive strike.

"If I was the leader of Israel and I listened to some of the statements by the Iranian ayatollahs about... the security of my country, I'd be concerned about Iran having a nuclear weapon as well... And, in that Israel is our ally, in that we've made a very strong commitment to support Israel, we will support Israel if their security is threatened."

more...

http://www.icej.org/cgi-local/view.cgi?type=headline&ar...



That's what I see happening. We (U.S. & Israel) conduct air strikes, Syria and Iran retaliate. This occurs before October 2006, * then goes to Congress saying he HAS to get their authorization for a ground invasion, after all, they're already attacking us, are we just going to CUT and RUN? He'll put Congress in the same election year bind they were in back in 2002.

[Roland99]

19. Wheweee...imagine a new draft being enacted?

All of those keyboard commandos will finally get their chance to shine.


In the meantime, the US will continue to print more money thru the Federal Reserve and hide that stat in order that they can fund the continuation of their damn little war.

[robertpaulsen]

22. If we had a draft...

the number of protestors would make the immigration protests seem like a drop in the bucket. Not to take anything away or diminish the importance of that, but if it's a matter of life and death, I'm keeping my fingers crossed people will wake up.

[Roland99]

23. That and I find it hard that Congress could push one thru.

[EVDebs]

25. A new Authorization for Use of Military Force re Iran would have to be

given by Congress, correct ? Bush is still bobbing and weaving over the missing WMDs in Iraq (and the Plame affair)

See post at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2563065&mesg_id=2563065

[Roland99]

32. Did Clinton get Congressional approval to launch missiles in the 90s?

And, in the matter of using nukes, what if a first launch was done by some other country, would the President have to wait until Congress approved a retaliation?

I think this White House is capable of doing anything and then justifying it after the fact. They've already done that with Iraq.

[Emit]

35. And, they've been working on regime change for a long time

Here's a post I just made on a related discussion (sort of)

Regime change in Iran has been a neocon agenda for a long time, and is nothing new. Here's an old article by Laura Rozen from 2004 that details some of the history and some of the current issues.

Leading the charge in favor of this idea is neoconservative writer and political operative Michael Ledeen. For years, Ledeen -- currently the Freedom Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and acontributing editor at National Review -- has argued that the chief source of international terrorism in the world is Tehran. In numerous articles and his most recent book, "The War Against the Terror Masters" (2002), Ledeen has insisted not only that overthrowing the regime in Tehran should have come before military intervention in Iraq (though he continues to strongly support that operation), but that it would be relatively easy. "You don't have to fire a shot," he told The New York Sun in November 2002. "The Iranians are dying to bring down the government themselves."

~snip~

The regime change idea is generating controversy both inside and outside the Bush administration, not least because it is Ledeen himself who is most vigorously championing it. For inseparable from Ledeen's decades-long fascination with Iran and fervent belief that it is on the verge of democratic revolution is Ledeen's own controversial history with America's Iran policy, his zeal for the covert, and his disdain for sanctioned bureaucratic channels for US foreign policy making.

It was Ledeen who, as a consultant to Alexander Haig, President Reagan's secretary of state, helped broker the initial secret arms-for-hostages deal with Iran in 1985 that became part of the Iran-Contra scandal. More recently, he introduced his partner in that deal, Parisian-based Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar, to two Farsi-speaking Pentagon officials, Lawrence A. Franklin and Harold Rhode, interested in discussing the regime change idea. In late August, the meetings drew new attention after it was reported that the FBI was investigating whether Franklin had passed the classified draft national security directive on Iran to officials with the pro-Israel lobbying group AIPAC. In addition to Ghorbanifar (who is alleged to have long ties to both the Iranian and the Israeli governments), the meeting also included a former senior member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who reportedly had intelligence on dissident ranks within the Iranian security services.

Cont'd: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2004/10/10/the_revolution_next_time?mode=PF

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=897191&mesg_id=898183


And DinahMoeHum just recently mentioned similar info about Ledeen's desire for regime change dating back to the 70s:

Revenge for what happened in 1979, when our Iranian pet the Shah was deposed, and then the seizure of the US embassy in November 1979.

Since then, neocons have been vowing, and plotting for REVENGE. They have long memories.
Why do you think they've been talking their Iranian exile cronies all these years? Can't be about the weather - it's all about a fantasy of having the monarchy back in Iran, one which the US can control.

Problem is, the Iranians also have long recent memories going back to 1953; when a CIA-backed coup
deposed their democratically-elected president Mossadegh and put the Shah in power. Since their revolution in 1979 they have vowed "Never Again".

Go Google the words "Michael Ledeen" and "real men want to go to Tehran". I think you'll find the results interesting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=896822

[annabanana]

13. Cassandra's sad revenge...

People often forget that she was, unfailingly, right.

[autorank]

26. Good news Roland99...the public nature of this may deter war, should

deter war. After all, Congress is in a non linear tail spin on immigration because of major demonstrations. Pre Iraq, there were major demonstrations and * had to proclaim a nuclear threat.
If he doesn't know that his popularity will dwindle to the low two (2) figures in such an
instance, then he's going to be told by some very serious folks. Something figure exceeding his
60% disapproval rating thinks he's a liar. And, there's always the planned leak on any number of
issues that could bring him lower than anyone can imagine -- the real story of his 911 incompetence (really just showing Rices lies about not anticipating "slammed" plans; his outright lie according to
the highly respected Richard Bamford who says that *'s story of hearing about 911 was simply
not possible, etc).

That's not a strong hand to launch a highly unpopular military adventure. * can't do this alone and he can't do it without people talking about it. Well, they're screaming about it at the upper levels, three generals say he's nuts if he does this, etc. etc.

The very nature of the public dialog is a strong deterrent.

We'll see but my bet is that, as much as his delusional mind may want to do this, he's not capable
of pulling it off without advance warning. He has no "political capital" left and he's reviled in
almost all of the 50 states.

Have some hope. He could have succeeded in Iraq, in which case war would be inevitable.

[Roland99]

27. Can * utilize the prior war on terror resolution to attack unilaterally??

[robertpaulsen]

28. That or he could use IWR.

He could use the excuse that Iran is arming the insurgents in Iraq and say the IWR gives him authorization to expand the war into Iran.

Sounds crazy, but if you had told me two years ago he would use the War on Terror resolution as a legal justification for warrantless wiretaps, I wouldn't have believed it.

[Roland99]

30. But, technically, wasn't IWR made moot in June 2004........

with the transfer of sovereignty?

[robertpaulsen]

33. Technically, I think you may be correct.

I'm just trying to anticipate the spin cycle. The Chimp would willingly pretend MISSION ACCOMPLISHED never happened if it meant getting a free pass into Iran. "Don't you know there's a war going on?"

Maybe I should start a poll asking how DU thinks Dumbya will spin his justification for nuking Iran.

[Roland99]

37. Good ideer.

[symbolman]

29. What's with all these "Reuter's Breaking" or "Sy Hersh says"

thread titles and THEN we get a raw story link? Is this a new tack for pushing them?

Seriously, it's getting pretty blatant, can people not do that? Not calling YOU unethical, but it looks like a 'bait and switch' scene and I don't like seeing it here.

Just my 2 cents, flame away, sports fans :)

[Roland99]

31. WTF are you talking about?

I linked to an old New Yorker article and then included an amazing story done at RawStory that shows that Iran is the final destination, essentially.

RawStory has been great at breaking news and will oftentimes link back to the main article (NYT, WaPo, Reuters, etc.)

[symbolman]

34. Why not use the RS AMAZING story in the title?

I'm just noticing a trend here, and I disagree with your RS and been great at Breaking anything - they are to be congratulated on some aspects of their "reporting", but for the most part I see a lot of editorializing there, conjecture based on someone else's work, and most times I've gone there, there is no atribution to the original link in the first place..

So thanks for actually putting the original link in the thread, but the thread title belies the content of your post, which is about RS and only uses Hersh as a "name" to promote RS in my opinion.

And I DO get to have an opinion right? Or is it now the rule here to agree with everything you or anyone else says about RS?

Do you write for them or are you associated with them or just a huge fan?

[Roland99]

36. Of course you get to have an opinion and no I'm not associated w/them.

And, if you'll notice, the topic title is about Hersh's article and my own realization of what that meant given what I've read elsewhere, esp. from Larisa's articles at RawStory.


But, go ahead and dismiss the overall theme and content of the thread and keep on pissing and moaning about minutiae.

[symbolman]

38. You can disrespect me all you want

I've done a lot more than piss and moan, I've spent a year researching these issues myself, made a film a 2 DVD set about it called "Rove's War" so I'm interested in Factual information. And I've been a hard working progressive as well, my site brought in 100 million hits in it's first year alone based on my flash animations, been on the O'Reilly show once, and Scarborough's show twice, the second time for being one of 14 finalists out of 1500 entries in the MoveOn "Bush in 30 Seconds" contest..

So, disagree with me, but how about cooling out on the pissing and moaning insults.

I got drafted during Nam as well so yeah, you've got your free speech, feel free to use it as I have done. But don't call me a piss and moaner, please.

I'm interested in accuracy, which is why my site is called Takebackthemedia.com, we want accuracy from ALL MEDIA.

[Roland99]

39. I don't care if you've run for President and walked on the moon.

You're being an ass and you know it.


*plonk*

[symbolman]

41. Class Act you got going there

I really respect opinions from people that personally insult me.

Well, that settles that dispute, gee, why didn't *I* think of settling a dispute by just insulting the other guy.

Dummy me.

Usually the response of someone who has an indefensible position, so I'll just let you work your mouth.

[file83]

44. So, essentially, you are protesting that you have to click on the "back"

button in your browser because you don't like threads that include links to Raw Story if the Post title doesn't explicitly state that?

If you are doing your research for your next big DVD on DU, then you might want to refine your research methods. Just a thought.

Oh, and sorry I made you 'click' on this post, because now you have to 'click' the "back" button. Tough break.

[symbolman]

50. Oh good, another COMEDIAN

You must be, I checked out your site and the Huff work. Love you new guys, you have no idea who you're talking to and think you're the kings of those really BIG sites like Huff.. she's come to ME to see my work, I didn't have to spec it out and hope the minions liked it enough to vote for me and maybe she'd give me the time of day...

You newbies and your site pals need to realise how tricking people into visiting sites, links, etc in the end gets you ignored by the big boys.. oh you may get an interview or something, but you won't be invited to the party afterward.. and if you notice and REALLY look honestly, you'll see the circle jerk going on with a lot of these folks all just INTERVIEWING EACH OTHER and it's really HIGH COMEDY in the end..

Love the answers, from you liberal tough guys..

We say/you say:

We've been sued by Michael Savage for a half a million bucks, "BIG DEAL"

Janeane Garfalo sent us a hug check to help us fight the SLAP suit, "Get over yourself"

Michael Moore's a pal, "Yeah sure.. I don't care if you've walked on the moon"

Our site was instrumental in putting Randi Roades on Air America, "SO WHAT."

Got Mike Malloy's private number, call him anytime I want, "You're an ass"

Sheldon Drobny called ME and asked me about setting up Air America, "Tough Break"

Wes Boyd of MoveOn called me before they got behind my pal Robert Greenwald film "OutFoxed" for my opinion on the legalities of it, "YOU SUCK"

The lesson is, do not mislead people -- all these left wingers trying to emulate the style of the right wing media while saying they are not with bait and switch tactics will suffer in the end and cause usall to suffer.

But of course, from newbies it's always "YOU SUCK, SHUT UP.. oh, gee, will you rate my lil film on Huff po?"

Gotta love it

[file83]

60. Leggo your EGO.

You're funny.

[Roland99]

55. NY Times article today on Plame/Wilson and my emails to the authors

This article is in today's NY Times:

White House Memo
With One Filing, Prosecutor Puts Bush in Spotlight
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/washington/11leak.html?ei=5065&en=bfc9f24ecf86e6b3&ex=1145419200&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print


This is what I sent to Mssr. Sanger and Johnston:

Your article re: the White House involvement in the Plame/Wilson leak case was well-written. However, I believe you and many others in the media are missing the key aspect of the leaking of key portions of the NIE and of Plame's identity.

The main point is that this administration was actively seeking to get the CIA removed from the picture with regard to intelligence gathering on Iran and it's proliferation efforts and efforts to assist others.

This can be seen plain as day when paying attention to key articles. One was written by Mr. Seymour Hersh in Jan. 2005 for the New Yorker and was titled, The Coming Wars. Here is a link and a key excerpt:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact
In my interviews, I was repeatedly told that the next strategic target was Iran. “Everyone is saying, ‘You can’t be serious about targeting Iran. Look at Iraq,’ ” the former intelligence official told me. “But they say, ‘We’ve got some lessons learned—not militarily, but how we did it politically. ****We’re not going to rely on agency pissants.’ No loose ends, and that’s why the C.I.A. is out of there****.”
**** - emphasis mine.

Also, this article reported by Larisa Alexandrovna of RawStory:

Outed CIA officer was working on Iran, intelligence sources say
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Outed_CIA_officer_was_working_on_0213.html

Excerpt:
According to current and former intelligence officials, Plame Wilson, who worked on the clandestine side of the CIA in the Directorate of Operations as a non-official cover (NOC) officer, was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran.



As you can see, Mr. Johnston, the smear attempt at Joseph Wilson was mere distraction for the press. The real story is the damage done to the CIA (and the front company Brewster Jennings) in its ability to gather intelligence on Iran. The CIA is an obstruction to the neoconservative agenda in this administration. With the CIA out of the way, the DoD and its agencies (DIA and OSP) are free to create whatever evidence they desire and stovepipe it up to the White House without any vetting process. Research Michael Ledeen's and Stephen Hadley's involvement in the Niger forgeries and Ledeen's involvement with SISMI as well as his meetings with Ghorbanifar re: Iran. Iran is the "final destination". Iraq is merely a staging ground whereby the US military can effect a "squeeze play" against Iran from Iraq on the west and Afghanistan to the east.

I beseech you as an American citizen truly concerned with the march to war that this administration prefers over engaging in diplomacy. They have *not* learned from their mistakes in Iraq and going after Iran will only make us more vulnerable to attack (not to mention push the US further and further into debt).

It is up to you in the stalwart companies of the media to research and reveal what this administration is up, for the sake of the stability of this country and of the world.

[wishlist]

56. Excellent, you have nailed the crux of the issue of Bush vs the Wilsons

The corporate media is avoiding stating the obvious conclusion that the Plame leak shows just how ruthlessly and desperately the Bush neocons wanted to silence those connected to the CIA who had opposing views and intelligence findings contrary to the rush to war. The Bush White house actions (and ongoing Repub smear campaign against Wilson) were not merely political revenge but vital to shore up their pro-war propaganda and ensure that their long term goals including attacking Iran would not be undermined.

[Roland99]

57. Now to work on condensing that into about 250 words for LTTEs

and spread those all over the place!

[Jemmons]

58. Bush's October surprise - it's coming

Just read Asian Times :


Bush's October surprise - it's coming
By Spengler

One hears not an encouraging word about US President George W Bush these days, even from Republican loyalists. Yet I believe that Bush will stage the strongest political comeback of any US politician since Abraham Lincoln won re-election in 1864 in the midst of the American Civil War.

Two years ago I wrote that Bush would win a second term as president but live to regret it. Iraq's internal collapse and the president's poll numbers bear my forecast out. But Bush's Republicans will triumph in next November's congressional



elections for the same reason that Bush beat Democratic challenger John Kerry in 2004. Americans rally around a wartime commander-in-chief, and Bush will have bombed Iranian nuclear installations by October....











http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HD11Ak03.html

[Roland99]

59. Well, they're at least going to have to make one more trip to the UN

for appearances.

After that happens, hold your breath.