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What does "whatever it takes to win" in Iraq mean?

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:43 PM
Original message
What does "whatever it takes to win" in Iraq mean?
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 04:43 PM by BurtWorm
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_04/008546.php

April 3, 2006

REPUBLICANS AND THEIR SLOGANS....Atrios wonders if I was being coy when I asked pro-war hawks to explain what they mean when they say we need to do "whatever it takes" to win in Iraq. Answer: sort of. Mostly, though, I was trying to make the point that although Democrats get routinely skewered for "not having a plan," neither do Republicans. But nobody ever calls them on it.

Take Fred Hiatt's apparent attempt to mimic the slashing prose style of the late lamented Ben Domenech in the Washington Post today. Writing about "Real Security," the recently released Democratic national security plan, he starts out like this:

You can look at the Democrats' national security plan, released last week, as simply a political shield, akin to the upgraded body armor they promise for U.S. troops.

...."Real Security"....is an amulet for 2006 candidates: You see? We have a plan. We Democrats will buy more weaponry than the Bush administration, sign up more troops, give more to veterans, inspect more shipping containers.


I guess that's what passes for cute these days, and it takes three paragraphs of this snide drollery before Hiatt confesses that there is another way to look at the document, namely as a serious policy statement. But he's no happier with that perspective:

President Bush believes that the United States "is in the early years of a long struggle"....the United States must first and foremost offer better values, promoting democracy and opposing tyranny. It must be ready to take the fight to the enemy....must seek to ease the poverty that breeds hopelessness.

This is a mug's game. Hiatt is unhappy that the Democratic plan actually focuses on achievable goals instead of slogans like these, despite the fact that he all but admits that these slogans are pretty empty in Republican hands. But if it were the other way around, he'd complain that the plan lacked details to back up its fancy words.

But why give Republicans a free pass? Where's their plan? What I've seen is a National Security Strategy that's full of windy phrases that plainly don't match the administration's actual intentions, and a Quadrennial Defense Review that pretends to be concerned with terrorism but devotes virtually all of its real resources to the same old platforms designed to fight the same old Cold War enemies. Why is that considered "serious"?

It's time to end the double standard. President Bush gives stirring speeches, but his actions indicate rather plainly that his administration isn't really driven by concern for democracy, global poverty, nuclear nonproliferation, port security, foreign oil dependence, or public diplomacy. As for Iraq, it's obvious he doesn't have a clue what to do.

So aside from slogans, what's the Republican plan? Guys like Hiatt ought to be asking.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whatever it Takes? Probably This:
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 04:46 PM by ribofunk
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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ewoden Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. It means . . .
"We don't give a flying fig about how many Americans or Iraqi's we gotta kill, maime, or scar for life. Our kids ain't ah goin, so f_ _ k you average Jane and Joe american, we got us a nice profitable war goin on and it is gonna keep goin on 'till some wiseasses vote our kind out of office."
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. And the Carlyle boys and the Halliburton girls will just keep
cruising along with the Blackwater cocksuckers.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Loose translation: Kill them all!
:shrug:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Finish the job"
It's as if "winning" is like washing the windows or sweeping the floor. Linear "western style" reasoning will get you nothing but trouble when trying to make sense of the Middle East.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. duh. "Kill em all and let god sort it out"...
That's all they ever mean....

Thing is - even if we DID do that - would we have "won"?

Nobody seems to be able to say what winning even MEANS - let alone how to go about achieving it....
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ewoden Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. They do not want to win. . . they want to show progress to
keep all the sheeple engaged and supportive. Can't make money in military goods and services unless there is an enemy to fight. Maintaining "defense" capability is a break even proposition. Burning up ordnance, equipment, food, fuel, services at an accelerated rate is what makes the real coin for the military industry. Gotta keep up the war to keep up the money flow. Peace is costly to war mongers.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. They have no idea
I think they know it means more people will die but that's ok because they probably don't have any family members over there anyway. Aside from more death, I really don't think they know what "whatever it takes" means. If they did, you would think they would take an extra minute or two to explain.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. AND we have a winner.
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 04:59 PM by Inland
It's being FOR victory, in the abstract. There was once a snotty aside, I think by Bob Dole, about Newt Gingrinch: "Newt's for new ideas. He doesn't HAVE any. He's just FOR them." In the same way, the neocons are FOR victory, and are defining their enemies as AGAINST victory, but how to get to victory, and what it will look like we get it? No clue.
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Lin Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. means make * look good whatever the cost-"our guys can beat yours" means
bullshit -real pissing match stuff - and it.....makes....me....SICK!
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well, to "win" in Afghanistan, they invaded Iraq...
So to win in Iraq, obviously they have to bomb Iran, which will in turn put Syria on notice. This process will also speed up the erasure of our rights and leave Bush with the dictatorial powers he has so long craved. Security, security, (don't talk about the Dubai ports deal), security...

You know, whatever it takes! More innocent people die, more American soldiers die, more fools are lied to by this administration, more lies parroted by Republicans in Congress, more lies parroted by the shameless media bootlickers.

Whatever it takes, as long as no rich Republicans go broke or have to actually take up arms against our "enemies". That's just not part of whatever it takes.


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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. If 'WE' do whatever it takes to win...
then obviously WE don't intend for the Iraqis to be the winners.

Rather like if you asked someone, "Who won World War I or II?", they'll never say the World; because it didn't. Interesting :dilemma:
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bankrupt congress
That's the real purpose of the war. The Repugs know they're gonna end up on their asses eventually. I suspect they're surprised it took this long for people even to notice something was wrong. Their single goal has been to bankrupt congress so that it has no money to spend on social programs.

Only those people "bless-ed by God" (that's how it's pronounced) should succeed. So they'll do everything in their power to make sure people "blessed by God" (Falwell, Dobson etc.) succeed and everybody else fails. Hence the trillions funneled into Halliburton and a whole raft of other companies. When liberals get back in power, they'll be faced by a massive debt that they will feel duty-bound to clean up first. As soon as things become properous again, Republicans will claim credit and we're off again.

I've sat through this cycle twice (Raygun and Dubya) and hope to never see it again.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Whatever it takes to keep from having to *think* about Iraq."
If it means that a few more poor, brown soldiers must be sent to kill a few of their poor, brown soldiers, well, sacrifices must be made--preferably not by our kind. Since our Prez has no other platform, it wouldn't do to question the war.

Don't mention the War!

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. THIS: "Whatever we want it to mean for as long as we want."
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Whatever it takes" to win?
I think first we'd need to define what "winning" would mean.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Um keep Murika from being 'embarrassed' as long as my kid doesn't
have to get killed or maimed doing it.

And I don't have to pay a buck in extra taxes."
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