False Flag Operation? "The horror. The horror".

[Stanchetalarooni]

The first time I had ever heard of False Flag Ops was in a support group for Vietnam Vets at the local VA hospital. Back in the mid 80s. So many horror stories about war. One in particular stood out told by a guy named Chuck.
US GIs enter a Vietnamese village in the middle of the night dressed like Vietcong. They kill some villagers, torch some buildings, create a terror and havoc and then flee.
The next morning these same GIs along with the rest of their company enter the village and provide medical assistance to the villagers, chocolate bars to the children, smiles all around.
Of course the twisted formula is Yankee = Good Guy, Vietcong = Bad Guy.
I was astounded when I first heard the story. I had come to learn that the US military was capable of the most atrocious behavior first hand. They say that this is a different kind of war. Wrong. Wars are all the same. Good guys? Bad guys? All the flags of the world have some of each.
Oh, about Chuck. He was warm. Sweet. Friendly. Troubled by horrible nightmares from his past. An imperialistic militaristic system took him as a 17 year old and indoctrinated him with the most powerful psychological techniques available into thinking that what he was doing for his commanding officer was the right thing to do.
The Vietnamese found a way to forgive him but as much as he tried he couldn't forgive himself. He ended it all with a self inflicted bullet to his brain.
It took a lot of courage to admit to his false flag op. It was ugly and horrible and he painfully admitted to it because he found that he was duped and it was wrong.
"The horror. The horror".

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Bush is doing the exact same thing

to another generation of our best and brightest. Why do they hate everyone so much?

[mattclearing]

2. They don't hate so much as they don't care.

All in a day's work for the selfish and cruel.

[rman]

3. Operation Northwoods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

"Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a contingency plan in 1962 to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. The plan was not carried out but the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative was executed."

<Snip>

The previously secret document was originally made public on November 18, 1997 by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board<1>, a U.S. federal agency overseeing the release of government records related to John F. Kennedy's assassination.<2><3> A total of about 1500 pages of once-secret military records covering 1962 to 1964 were concomitantly declassified by said Review Board.

"Appendix to Enclosure A" and "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" of the Northwoods document were first published online by the National Security Archive on November 6, 1998 in a joint venture with CNN as part of CNN's 1998 Cold War television documentary series<4>—specifically, as a documentation supplement to "Episode 10: Cuba," which aired on November 29, 1998.<5> "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" is the section of the document which contains the proposals to stage terrorist attacks.

<snip>


In response to a request for pretexts for military intervention by the Chief of Operations, Cuba Project (Col. Edward Lansdale), the document lists methods (with, in some cases, outline plans) the author believed would garner public and international support for US military intervention in Cuba. These are staged attacks purporting to be of Cuban origin, with a number of them having real casualties. Central to the plan was the use of "friendly Cubans"—Cuban exiles seeking to oust Fidel Castro.

The suggestions included:

<snip>

- Destroying an unmanned drone masquerading as a commercial aircraft supposedly full of "college students off on a holiday". This proposal was the one supported by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

<more>

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. LOL!

You think the Vietnamese could not tell the difference between Vietnamese and Americans? I don't believe the above story by Chuck.

[rman]

6. Yeah, like US media would interview Vietnamese villagers

to uncover clumsy false-flag ops.
Doesn't really matter if the Vietnamese knew or not; they're dead either way.

[formercia]

7. Where did you serve?

Perhaps you could enlighten us on your extensive military background. As for myself, from personal experience, I tend to believe the story.
I spent 18 Months as a paramilitary officer and have first hand experience in false-flag operations.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. I am skeptical.

I do not believe every story ever told about the US military. Just because some guy named Chuck said it happened, doesn't necessarily mean it did. One skill I do have is breaking down statements for inconsistencies. You state that you "tend" to believe the false-flag operations happened as described by Chuck and then you claim to have participated in them. Which is it? If you know that these things happened because of personal experience, why would you only "tend" to believe them? Would you not absolutely believe them?

[formercia]

12. You're being a jerk

If you read my comment, I said that I tend to believe the story. I based my view on having participated in that type of operation.

Don't try to twist my words around to suit your argument.

[Vinnie From Indy]

14. Just observing

Hey! They are your words, not mine.

[Sal Minella]

18. He "tends" to believe Chuck's story. He DID participate in other

false-flag operations. It's very clear. You misquoted what he said.

There's enough confusion in the world. Please don't create more.

[rman]

22. But you can twist the words nonetheless.

Right?

[Neil Lisst]

26. They dress up like Charlie, they shoot from a distance, and they use

the weaponry and mortars used by Charlie.

They wouldn't go into the village and show themselves, where it would be obvious they were round eyes, not VC. The key is distance and technique. They look and attack like VC, then the villagers think they are VC.

The details as told may be incorrect. I doubt they actually sent men into the village, because Americans and VC don't look or move anything like one another.

[Ufomammut]

5. I think the same thing whenever...

I hear some naive, brainwashed kid pimping the "things in Iraq are peachy-keen" rhetoric. Over the holidays, my little family went to my bro-in law's house for a get-together, and another one of her brothers was there too (an ex-marine, total sadist dickhead wife beater) and one of his sons was there, just back from Iraq. He brought a laptop along and he, the old man, and daughter/sister sat at the table and, as "entertainment," watched video of Iraqis being killed.

As sick people go, they kept trying to conince others to "join them" in their fun (it's not "wrong" if lots of people do it) but there were no takers. After children would walk by, and being children, were curious, I, and others finally said something. People kept leaving the house to go out to the garage and complain about the twistoids who were watching that shit at the kitchen table on Christmas day.

I've known a few other guys who went to Vietnam, and all three are severely fucked up, alcoholic, can't maintain relationships, etc

[leveymg]

8. We learned that one studying the Germans on the Eastern Front in WWII.

Russian-speaking Slavic volunteers (Waffen SS) working for Reinhardt Gehlen's OKW (High Command, Central Front) used to dress up as partisans and invade villages in contested areas. They'd rape, pillage, and kill some of the locals. This tactic was researched by U.S. Army historians and compiled after the War in a series of widely-read case studies.

This is the first time I've heard that this tactic was employed in Vietnam. The only question is, how did they do this with squads of non-Asian Americans? Hardly seems a convincing psyop if Chuck was Caucasian and six feet tall. Even at night.

[formercia]

10. In the dark it's difficult to estimate height and distance

but if you bring along a couple of Vietnamese scouts to yell and bark orders...

The locals were probably huddled in some hole to get away from the shooting and probably only heard voices and gunfire. An Ak-47 or SKS has a distinctive sound, just like a voice.

On the other hand, in areas controlled by the VC or NVA, the village elders would know who the local cadre were and it would get sorted out quickly. In contested areas, the NVA and VC usually controlled villages at night and we or the South Vietnamese Army controlled the area during the day.

[leveymg]

13. Not saying it's impossible, just doesn't ring true to my ear.

Why not just have the Vietnamese scouts do it? As I said, I haven't heard about this particular tactic being used in Vietnam.

What I do find plausible is that US Special Forces may have adopted such disguises to assassinate suspected Vietcong double-agents. A lot of really sick, nasty crap was pulled by CORDS to carry out the Phoenix Plan.

[Vinnie From Indy]

15. I agree with you!

Terrible, horrible things were done, but not every story told about Vietnam is true.

[endarkenment]

24. google operation phoenix nt.

[formercia]

16. Since there are so many experts here

I think i'll go get a cup of coffee.

[leveymg]

17. I mean "we" - Americans - no, I didn't do this. eom

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. My thought exactly!

Who would mistake large Americans for small Vietnamese. The Vietnamese, I believe, proved convincingly that they were anything but stupid.

[Stanchetalarooni]

19. Lest we forget that these false flag ops were conceived by MORANS.

MORANS!!!!!!

[rman]

23. You think the W gang came up with these plans?

Or PNAC perhaps?

Who do you think conceived of Operation Northwoods back in those days?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood

[stickdog]

20. But it could never happen here!

It would be nuts covered with tinfoil to think that!

[Ufomammut]

21. LOL Cuckoo-katchoo indeed!!!

[Neil Lisst]

25. Yep. It's easy to fall into believing in war when you're young.