Official NSA Spying Hearing Thread 1

[liveoaktx]

Playing on Cspan 3-started at 8:30 CST
http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

[helderheid]

1. K & R

[The Witch]

2. K&R, who's testifying today?

Not Torquemada, I hope?

[TayTay]

4. Here's the list

Witness List
Hearing before the
Senate Judiciary Committee
on
NSA III: Wartime Executive Powers and the FISA Court

Tuesday, March 28, 2006
Dirksen Senate Office Building Room 226
9:30 a.m.

PANEL I

The Honorable Harold A. Baker
Judge
U.S. District Court for the Central District of Illinois
Urbana, IL

The Honorable Stanley S. Brotman
Judge
U.S. District Court of New Jersey
Camden, NJ

The Honorable John F. Keenan
Judge
U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York
New York City, NY

The Honorable Allan Kornblum
Magistrate Judge
U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida
Gainesville, FL

PANEL II

Morton H. Halperin
Senior Fellow
Center for American Progress
Executive Director
Open Society Policy Center
Washington, D.C.

David S. Kris
Senior Vice President
Time Warner, Inc.
New York, NY

[The Witch]

6. WTF is Time Warner dude doing there? n/t

[TayTay]

9. My guess?

Here's there to explain some of the telecom links that go into gathering this info for the govt.

[liveoaktx]

10. Hope that's true.... and I hope he gets GRILLED on this

regarding privacy issues, etc.

[liveoaktx]

8. Judiciary Hearing Witness List Link

http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearing.cfm?id=1825

[liveoaktx]

3. Side note: Pat Roberts said the other day on Late Edition that

he wanted people to quit paying attention to this issue.

[The Witch]

5. Roberts: "I wish you could quit us." :snicker: n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

11. LOL!

:)

[liveoaktx]

13. bwahahahah

[helderheid]

7. I just bet he does

[rodeodance]

64. te he, what an idiot!

[liveoaktx]

12. Kornblum (FISA) seems to say that the spying could go on but

at the end of a certain period, they'd have to justify whether it was foreign intelligence or not.

[TayTay]

14. So he is sweeping the basic illegality of the program under the rug

and basically not dealing at all with the fact that the wiretapping was illegal at the time? It seems to me he is saying that we shouldn't care about that and should fix it going forward. (Doesn't that imply that something was wrong with it, if we need to fix it?)

[liveoaktx]

15. Congress can empower the president to do broad surveillance programs

and THEN monitored by FISA courts, enhanced foreign collection program.

[rodeodance]

67. That is the intent of the new bill-to 'save face' for WH (and Congress for

not doing oversite). Feingold in onto this ruse!

[Sydnie]

16. the Congress CAN give that authority, but they DIDN'T!

Talk about what it says not what they want it to say! :wtf:

[liveoaktx]

17. No! Feingold won't be there because he has to go to WH

Looks like he takes issue with what Kornblum said but Specter cut him off.

[Sydnie]

18. Specter is an asshole!

He still can't see the writing on the wall.

[liveoaktx]

I'll bet Bush did that on purpose to keep Feingold out of this hearing

[Sydnie]

26. GMTA

I was thinking the same thing!

[TayTay]

19. Sen. Feingold had to leave

Sigh! He has to go to the WH to brief Bush on Feingold's weekend trip to Iraq.

[The Witch]

20. Maybe he will be back we hope we hope?

A hearing without Russ isn't a hearing at all.. sigh... :loveya:

[liveoaktx]

22. Plus who else is gonna smack back these people that want to

establish broad surveillance BEFORE a warrant

[TayTay]

24. Sign of the times, I wonder if this was done on purpose

So that Bush can remove an effective questioner from the hearing. Sigh! He is enough of a bastard to do it.

[liveoaktx]

25. You posted that same time as I posted the same thing-I don't believe

that this was done by accident.

[TayTay]

28. That's sad

We all have just cause to be thinking stuff like that. How sad. What a terrible statement about Bush and his government.

[liveoaktx]

29. Of all the issues right now that disturb me, it's this one- and generally

that Bush is trying with all this might to keep his criminal activities hidden by stacking the deck.

[liveoaktx]

30. Brotman going through history and theory of FISA courts

Not here to stop the collection of information but there to help those who do it make sure they comply with the law.

[TayTay]

33. Brotman seems more concerned about the issues here

and is troubled by the conflicts inherent in Bush's program.

[Norquist Nemesis]

60. Especially since this President isn't known to "invite" Dems

to the Oval Office very often. Bush doesn't get 'advice' and have little chats with Dems. He just doesn't.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: Maybe Russ will find out what Bush has "heard". And Bush will give him some *ahem* advice *ahem* about making a Presidential run in 2008. Also, I'm betting Rove will be in the room.

[liveoaktx]

21. FISA compromise between WH and Congress (Baker)

[liveoaktx]

23. Who has the right to decide probable cause? Who has oversight? (Baker)

[TayTay]

27. Thanks for the recaps.

These are great!

[liveoaktx]

31. Need for surveillance versus Constitutional provision article 4 (Brotman)

So the floor for all this is that Americans WILL Be spied upon, according to at least two FISA Court witnesses.

[The Witch]

32. This guy is putting me to sleep.

Someone crash a cymbal, quick!

[liveoaktx]

34. Unless the first witnesses that I missed said so, the last 2 have said

that surveillance is okay, but second step is oversight.

[liveoaktx]

35. FISA probable cause different than criminal probable cause

All AG has to show is that the target is foreign.

[liveoaktx]

36. Crap! That's THREE for codifying NSA spying

[liveoaktx]

37. 72 hours to surveill without a warrant versus new bill to do it for 45 DAY

Keenan-72 hour requirement presumably left in place.

[liveoaktx]

38. Keenan: Electronic Surveillance already defined, differences in

new legislation.

Modern technology-US citizens may well be in the chain of evidence, ample probable cause.

[TayTay]

39. Are all three judges on or have been on the FISA court?

The rebuttal to this will come from the witness from the Center for American Progress,right? Specter lined up the 4 judges to open his case and give him wiggle room.

[liveoaktx]

40. Sounds like it, all seem to be in agreement that the President can protect

the nation by surveilling all of us. This last judge, Stafford, also served on FISA court

[liveoaktx]

41. Also, are there FISA judges who do NOT agree with Specter's bill?

Unless they were at the beginning, I haven't seen any disagreement

[TayTay]

44. That makes sense. Specter has loaded the deck

with Judges who support him and minimize the illegality of the program.

Damn, I wish Sen. Feingold was there for the questioning of these guys after the intro speeches.

[liveoaktx]

42. Not feasible to name every person or address every location

and requires an extended period of surveillance (due to modern changes in technology and differences in criminal versus foreign surveill)- Stafford.

[liveoaktx]

46. My comment-WHY is technology driving this issue? We are not SLAVES

to technology, particularly when it is not proven that it does any dang good.

[cspanlovr]

43. Feingold had to leave!

Junior called him to the WH to report of his (feingolds) trip to Middle East. He tried to make a 5 minute statement, but Spector cut him off and went on with the testimony.

[The Witch]

45. Is it just me, or are these guys salivating over Specter?

It's making me a little sick.

[liveoaktx]

47. Looks like it to me as well, where's any opposition to this?

[The Witch]

48. ARLEN SPECTER = CLEAR SERPENT

Truth In Anagrams!!! :)

[liveoaktx]

49. FISA established to say President CAN do surveillance but under FISA

arrangement seems to have worked well for everyone - Stafford

[The Witch]

50. Question time :D Let's go FIGHTIN' DEMS

w00t

[liveoaktx]

51. Specter/Baker- minimization and probable cause

Not to abandon test of probable cause but different standard for foreign intelligence (versus criminal)

Uh, WHY is that????

[liveoaktx]

52. Stafford- "Not possible to name everyone" electronics just flies

around this world so quickly... running to the court every time is not possible. Permits gathering of foreign intell to strike anyone, including US persons, who may not have any foreign intelligence purpose whatsoever.

[liveoaktx]

53. Question: What EXACTLY in Specter's bill provides judicial review?

Sounds like he would allow surveillance by Bush/NSA and increase the amount of time before AG had to go FISA to justify additional surveillance. Would they THEN have to show probable cause for a particular person? And what happens to the people who are already in the database? IS it purged?

[liveoaktx]

54. Leahy up-

[liveoaktx]

55. Info obtained through NSA surveillance can't be used in prosecution- FISA

judges agree?

Baker defers, no answer
Brotman defers too
next one too

[liveoaktx]

57. IF case where evidence obtained through warrantless wiretapping

NOW AG asks for warrant, would that put the judge in position to consider whether evidence obtained lawfully?

[kentuck]

59. They all look like a bunch of old incompetent farts...

Do they know anything??

[The Witch]

56. Thanks for the updates, liveoaktx! :)

:yourock:

[liveoaktx]

61. Be sure and update, I just lost the Cspan3 feed, going to try to

reconnect but meanwhile tell ME what I"m missing!

[The Witch]

58. Every one of these guys sounds like Joementum.

I need some coffee if I'm gonna keep on listening to this :)

[kentuck]

62. From what I have watched thus far...

These guys look like they were hand-picked by "someone" to try and legitimize the actions of George W Bush?? Anybody else have that impression?

[liveoaktx]

63. Yes, they are rubber stamps for Specter's bill, not sure how it compares

with Dewine's.

[TayTay]

66. Hatch is up now.

Leahy's questions did elecit the response that if something is wrong with the FISA requests they will be denied.

[liveoaktx]

65. going to start a second thread on this in a moment, will put up link

[liveoaktx]

69. SECOND NSA Hearing Thread # 2 LINK HERE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x773314

Have asked for this thread to be locked.

[helderheid]

68. Hatch is up which means I am required to direct you all to his opponents

website and ask for a donation - Pete Ashdown is GOOD PEOPLE and cares about keeping the internet free:

www.peteashdown.org

GET RID OF HATCH!!

[rodeodance]

70. damm, experiencing problems with streaming! is the message now.

[rodeodance]

71. enlighten me--I came late--This isn't the Censure issue is it?

[maddezmom]

72. locking

Thread 2 here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=772849&mesg_id=773323