Help. No fault divorce caused higher divorce rate?- Freeper

[Kingshakabobo]

Freeper argument against gay marriage:

>>>>It's not about good and bad people, if marriage is redefined to includes same-sex couples there would be a weakening in the meaning of marriage which would cause more divorces. Human nature being what it is, if the meaning of marriage is weakened, it will be psychologically easier for more people to divorce. Look what happened when the no-fault divorce was legalized!

The more divorces the more kids get screwed over, tell me how that is good for society!<<<

It's always about the children.

I wish I could find the 1950s-1960s quotes against inter-racial marriage someone posted here a while back.

Anyone have those quotes??

[louis-t]

1. Pretzel logic

:crazy:

[bluestateguy]

2. Isn't Massachusetts like 49th or 50th in the divorce rate?

Anybody who would feel more inclined to get divorced because Bruce and Julian got married probably has a marriage that's on the rocks anyway.

[DIKB]

3. So . . .

If same sexes can get married, more STRAIGHT people are gonna get divorced ? Where the fuck do they come up with that logic ?

[Child_Of_Isis]

6. Well the logic is thus:

Pukes thinks that all people who are married are really gay, so if they divorce, they will be more inclined to seek out the same sex. See...marriage keeps people "straight". :eyes:

[Faygo Kid]

4. Divorced twice, and can't remember a gay person involved in any way.

This guy's "logic" is looney. It's a straw man argument, based on a false premise. Never even heard this one before. "Human nature being what it is. . .?" what the hell does that mean in the context of this issue? Don't waste your time on this cretin.

[Justitia]

So, let's not let ANYONE get married & make marriage even stronger!

Great logic.

No wonder this dude voted for Bush.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. With marriage

my stance is if the government is going to be involved at all with anyone's marriage it should be equal or none at all. The only way marriage becomes religious is the ceremony. At the end the person doing the ceremony states: "by the power vested in me by the state of *insert state here,* I now prounounce you man and wife." Not by God. Not by Jesus. By the STATE you are in gives them the power to marry. It has to do with the law and not with religion. Why am I as a straight, white and Christian be more important to my government with the law than someone else? I remember one time hearing a quote from Bush stating how they don't want to turn the country into a religious theocracy. It wasn't those exact words but it was stating the same point none the less. I just wanted to barf and bang my head at the wall.

[GCP]

5. I believe the freeper's correct (wash my mouth out with soap!)

About the increase in divorce rate after no-fault divorces were allowed.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/6398.html

[rox63]

11. I disagree

Massachusetts has both no-fault divorce and gay-marriage, and we've got one of the lowest divorce rates in the country.

[Poppyseedman]

13. Your statement is not relative at all

Massachusetts has both no-fault divorce and gay-marriage, and we've got one of the lowest divorce rates in the country.

What matters: What was the divorce rate before Massachusetts legally approved no-fault divorce and gay-marriage

No disrespect intended

[rox63]

16. I have no idea

And I don't think either gay marriage or no-fault divorce is relevant to the divorce rate. But if either was increasing the rate, then the rate would would be getting higher relative to other states. And it's not.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Before hand does NOT matter

Their argument is if we have gay marriage, as stated in the person's freeper showing, that marriage for straight people will decline and they'll ruin it. NOT true by looking at Massachusetts.

[TahitiNut]

18. Did you look at the rebuttal study?

http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/10014.html

:eyes:

[Jackpine Radical]

23. Rebuttal study? Hell, I haven't even read the buttal study.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. You said butt

LOL.

[Orangepeel]

32. the freeper is half right

(also half brained and half assed)

The divorce rate increased after no-fault divorces were allowed. And why wouldn't it? No fault divorces made it easier to get divorced (duh!). It doesn't follow that more people got divorced because they thought, "well! the government no longer thinks marriage is important so why should I work at my marriage" and, especially, it doesn't follow that more people will get divorced because allowing gay marriage will make them think the same thing.

[leftstreet]

7. Just agree with them. Then say something even more outrageous

"You're right. And I also think we could lower the divorce rate by outlawing inter-racial marriage. Wouldn't you agree?"

You can't win arguments with these nuts. Just manipulate them into revealing their TRUE nuttiness.

I think I read where Pat Robertson is gonna build a theme park in Israel for American fundy tourists. This will be a great place for them to go while they wait for their Rapture.

[jmowreader]

20. Oh gawd, don't do that...

You start "advocating" the end of interracial marriage, and the next thing you know you'll be getting invitations to freeps.

"Hey! Leftstreet's seen the light!" Or the darkness, depending on how you want to put it.

[leftstreet]

25. LOL. The "darkness" no doubt. n/t

[InternalDialogue]

8. No-fault divorce didn't make it psychologically easier

to get divorced. It made it easier, period. It didn't remove a mental obstacle from getting divorced, it removed a legal one.

It probably didn't affect marriage itself in any way. It just enabled those who were thinking about it but were restrained by the legal requirements to do it more easily.

Has nothing to do with the argument of weakening the meaning of marriage.

[NMDemDist2]

10. correct, you didn't need "grounds" ie infidelity or cruelty

just hating each others guts was then reason enough under "no fault"

[unblock]

14. except where there's a will, there's a way

judges would refuse to grant a divorce where there was no immediate physical danger and there had been no serious attempt at reconciliation. in such cases, a judge would defer the divorce until the couple did some therapy or otherwise tried to make it work.

but in practice, usually all this did was delay the inevitable, although occassionally it would convince someone that the hassle of divorce wasn't worth getting out of a bad marriage, and even less frequently, it would actually work out for the best.

mostly what "fault" divorces do is make the process of divorce much uglier, because on top of everything that "no-fault" entails (property divisions, guardianship and visitation rights, etc.) "fault" divorces also require airing a lot of dirty laundry for the public record -- at a time when the contestants are strongly motivated to put the screws to each other.

married couples spied on each other and gathered each other's personal property as evidence for "grounds". in some cases, people would fabricate excuses or even blackmail each other to force them to agree to the divorce, etc.

a lot of ugliness.

my mother's parents had a bad marriage but never got divorced, and having grown up with that, i'm a huge fan of no-fault divorces, and of removing any stigma associated with divorce. if you're in a bad marriage, by all means try to work it out. but if it's apparent that you'd both be happier apart, then just get divorced already.

[Kingshakabobo]

31. Nice insight. Thanks. n/t

[blm]

9. Divorce rate in Texas is many times higher than in NY or Massachusetts.

The teen pregnancy rates are higher, too.

So, what does that say?

The red states who vote for Bush and claim God as their own sure do seem to have problems with sins of the flesh. Yet they blame the gays.

[Poppyseedman]

12. No fault divorce would in fact raise the divorce rate

where divorce is not already no fault.

Many couples go though stressful times, if getting a divorce is legally more difficult or expensive than working out the marriage problems, they would stay together, hence lowering the divorce rate verses states where there is no fault divorces.

Gay marriage would hardly affect the divorce rate because the "definition" of marriage has nothing to do with what is the legal ramifications of perusing one state to state.

The guy is right about no fault divorce, but for the wrong reason.

Gay marriage may actually have the opposite effect of lowering divorce rates. If the meaning of marriage begins to be expanded, there will be less meaning in getting married, so fewer will. But the people who do get married probably have a deeper appreciation for the sanctity of it and tend to work out their problems rather than divorce.

It will be an interesting stats to see if gay marriage has the same divorce rate as regular marriages. My bet it will be much higher

[ddeclue]

15. Who cares...people should be happy.

Higher divorce rates aren't necessarily a bad thing -if people are unhappy married to each other, let them get a divorce. Whatever happened to the Republican/conservative belief that smaller government is better government? Why does that only seem to apply when we are talking about the "rights" of business or the 2nd Amendment? Why does it never apply to the people's bedrooms, people's churches (or lack thereof) or the environment?

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[TahitiNut]

17. The #1 cause of divorce is marriage.

In 100% of divorces, the people got married beforehand. :shrug: If we abolish marriage we'll have absolutely no divorces. Problem solved!

[depakid]

19. LOL- now that's the kind of logic

that spins freepers' heads around like in The Exorcist....

Kingshakabobo:

Try pulling some stuff from LOVING ET UX. v. VIRGINIA.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=388&invol=1

(that "et. ux" is what courts used to call women when they didn't have the right to sue on their own, without their husbands).

[TahitiNut]

28. Well, God got the blame, as usual. (FReeper 'logic' never changes.)

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Kingshakabobo]

35. Thanks! n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

29. You Sir, are a genius. Problem solved.

Take that freeper. I'll send that to him tomorrow as I've had 3 martinis with dinner....

[KyuzoGator]

21. Funny, I thought divorce was causing the higher divorce rate.

You know, the kind of divorces Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich have every two years or so.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. Oh yes

:eyes: Look at Elton John's relationship. Gay people stay together way longer than straight people do. I can't remember where I read or heard this but there was a gay couple moving to get the benefits and they've been together already at that point for thirty something years (I believe it was thirty-three). And let's look at all the republican hypocriacy with marriage shall we?

* Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

* Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

* Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

* Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

* Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

* Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

* Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

* Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

* Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

* Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

* Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

* Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

* Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

* Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

* Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

* Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger allegedly had sex with a 16 year old girl when he was 28.

* Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

* Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

* Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

* Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

* Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

* Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

* Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

* Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

* Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

* Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

* Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

* Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

* Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl.

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* Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

* Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

* Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

* Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

* Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

* Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

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* Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

* Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

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* Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

* Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was charged with rape for allegedly paying a 15-year old girl for sex. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

[Kingshakabobo]

30. Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[leftofthedial]

33. yes. and vice versa too.

idiots

they are unfettered by reality, logic, intelligence or even self-awareness.

[area51]

34. "{if gays married}...there would be a weakening ... of marriage...."

A republinazi said:

"if marriage is redefined to includes same-sex couples there would be a weakening in the meaning of marriage which would cause more divorces."

Riiiight. The insanity & lack of simple reasoning abilities among nazi party members never ceases to amaze me. :freak:

[BiggJawn]

36. "No-Fault" reduced the # of "Extreme Mental Cruelty" divorces.

What's Extreme Mental Cruelty?

It's what you tell the judge when the sight of him makes you sick or you find out her sister is a better fuck.

Now you just have to state that the marriage is "Irretrievably Broken", and if you're throwing china at each other and telling your spouse they gotta get out for the weekend because your lover is spending the night, I would say that's a true statement...

I think that people who yell the loudest about "Weakening Marriage" have some issues in their own marriages they aren't dealing with.