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My argument against The Patriot Act and this war:

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:56 AM
Original message
My argument against The Patriot Act and this war:
I posted this on a board where I go for recreation to debate freepers. One of them had argued that The Patriot Act provision which allows govt access to library records was nothing new, that Timothy NcVeigh's (he spelled it 'McVay' - LOL) library records were part of the evidence in his trial. This freeper also calls me 'hateful' and says people who think like I do are out of control and are ruining America. Here is my response:

McVeigh's library list was evidence in a criminal trial and was obtained via subpoena. Show me where in The Patriot Act that a subpoena and credible evidence of a criminal act is still necessary to obtain library records. If this has not changed, then why add this provision to the law (if it is already permissible??)

The bush haters are not out of control. Not in the least. If they were, the man would have been impeached by now.

The real danger in this country is not from terrorists or even bush haters. The real danger is from those willing to sacrifice our civil liberties for a warped sense of security. War mongers who see no harm in the deaths of thousands of our soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and call those of us who see only injustice in this war 'treasonous' are indeed inflicting gross damage on America.

An innocent country was invaded. Long before 9/11, bush and his neocon group were determined to invade Iraq. The evidence of their plan is everywhere and it is overwhelming. The war itself has involved dishonesty (Sadaam has WMDs), treachery (Mission Accomplished) and tragedy (2312 dead soldiers), to mention only a few 'problems'. The damage to our reputation on the world stage has been horrendous. There are also now more terrorists not only in Iraq but all over the middle east, and who were essentially created by our aggression.

It is ludicrous to say that American citizens who are acting responsibly by speaking out against the terror created by our president are the enemy. No, the real enemy is the administration which has essentially bankrupted our country (remember, before they took office, we had a surplus). They have spent nearly $400 BILLION on an unjust war. They have ignored the citizens of The Gulf Coast, allowing hundreds to die in (and following) a hurricane, while also cutting spending on nearly EVERY govt program except their goddamn war. Yet even in that war, they have sent soldiers to fight without protective armor. While Halliburton's bank account grew, soldiers were charged exorbitant amounts for meals and were not even allowed to make phone calls home without paying for the calls themselves.

In the meantime, back in the US, the president admits he is spying on US citizens from peaceful religious groups, because they are protesting against his unjust war. And now he wants even more power to spy on us via The UnPatriotic Act. I call it UNpatriotic because dissent is essential to our democracy. Yet the dissenters are being targeted and all of us are being asked to sacrifice our civil liberties.

If bush really wanted to combat terrorism, he would have gone after Bin Laden. He would have kept our military in Afghanistan, where al qaeda actually was in 2003, when he invaded Iraq. He would not have supported selling our ports to a nation that harbored 9/11 terrorists and supports the Talliban. (If you are unable to see from this port sale disaster that he isn't interested in fighting terrorism, then I don't know what to tell you.)

The insanity is mind boggling. Some of us want it to stop. That's not hateful, it is patriotic. It isn't treasonous, it is patriotic. And it isn't dangerous to our country; it is the right thing to do now to preserve what is left of our democracy.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Any responses back?
You didn't leave them much wiggle room. My guess is throw a straw man up and knock it down or ignore you.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. A few of the liberals have given me high fives
and the freeper is now attacking them. So yes, he has apparently abandoned the debate. It used to make me mad when the freepers engaged in personal attacks, but after a few years debating them, I have learned that is the sign that I have won a debate.

So mark me down as victorious in this argument. :woohoo:
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