I'm going to say it, I hope a few Democrats get taken down in the scandal

[Walt Starr]

Yep, I hope any dirty Democrats get taken down in the Abramoff/Cunningham/Dujour/Defacto Scandals running about D.C. right now, too. We need to clean out the scum and you know damn well and good, we have a few Democrats so scummy, sleazy, nasty, and dirty that they would lower themselves to cavorting with the likes of Republicans, so they need to go down, too.

Throw the bums in federal prison and throw away the keys! I don't give a shit what party they're in!

[Hello_Kitty]

1. Yep. If they are they gotta go down too.

And good riddance!

[DIKB]

2. "A cleansing fire

consumes a few living trees, along with the dead ones, but the forest as a whole benefits as a result."

To those who toed the line with the repukes and took their dirty money, Good riddance.

[NYCGirl]

3. Remember James Traficant?

[Justitia]

13. He should be prosecuted for that get-up alone! -eom

[Idioteque]

16. He was a funny guy.

Terribly corrupt but seriously funny.

"THE VAGINA MONOLOGUES
October 5, 2000
Broadway has announced a new play called `The Vagina Monologues.' I quote, the promo states that `Vagina Monologues uses humor and drama to explore such things as sexual fantasies, orgasms, pelvic examinations and rape.' Now if that is not enough to entice your condominium, this vaginal virtuoso is being billed as theater at its finest.
Unbelievable. What is next? Rectal Diaries? Men are dropping like flies in America from prostate cancer and Broadway is promoting vaginal titillation.
Beam me up. I advise all New York men to sleep on their stomachs, and I yield back all the STDs on the East Coast."

"WE NEED SOME COMMON SENSE AT THE LABOR DEPARTMENT
May 16, 1997
Mr. Speaker, the Labor Department says there are more jobs than ever. I would like to discuss a few.
Ear muff assembler, dog food mixer, vibrator tester, worm picker, belly builder, dog washer, diaper machine tender-supervisor, hooker inspector, and a pantyhose crotch closer machine operator supervisor.
Beam me up, Mr. Speaker. The truth is I think we need some common sense at the Labor Department. Sun Apparel just laid off 600 workers, moving to Mexico; Johnson & Johnson laid off 100 workers, moving to Mexico.
The truth of the matter is that I think we should move the Labor Department to Mexico, and create some good jobs in America. I yield back all these jobs."

More Traficant Speeches

[Al-CIAda]

22. The man had a way with words, no doubt.

[Carni]

23. You forgot his best material...

that business about "I've got rumblings" at his own hearings--

That man and his hair were truly a menace to society!

[Beam Me Up]

49. Beam me up, Mr. Speaker!!

yee haw

[thebigidea]

58. my favorite was talk of busting out of jail and stabbing people...

... in the crotch... "like a gladiator."

a friend of mine used to send him perplexing letters in prison to return the dadaist favor. Drenched in perfume. I have no idea why.

[JVS]

20. watch out, he'll kick you in the CAR-OTCH!

[tn-guy]

74. I remember Traficant.

I also remember Roger Tamraz and the Keating Five and the House Bank. Heck, I still remember Billy Sol Estes.

The sad fact is that the Abramoff deal is nothing new. I'm old and cynical enough to know that sleaze and corruption has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat. It has to do with Politician.

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. Hmmm...ya think

Lieberman might be one of'em? What with his pro-repub support and statements...

Just sayin'.... :popcorn:

[Walt Starr]

6. He did take Abramoff client money

so it's possible he was involved in a quid pro quo.

[Catrina]

48. Why would that be? Abramoff's clients were mostly

Indian tribes who were victims of Abramoff themselves and had no idea of his criminal activities until they found out how he had cheated them. The Indian Affairs committee began hearings once it was established that those clients had most likely been cheated, and the rest is history.

Lieberman, and even Republicans, who received donations from people who had hired Jack Abramoff to lobby for them (which was perfectly legal) did nothing wrong or illegal.

Not one Democrat received money directly from Abramoff himself. Unlike the long list of Republicans who did. But even those Republicans who received money from him, did nothing wrong under the current laws, unless, as in the case of Bob Ney there is evidence that they did so in return for doing something that benefitted Abramoff.

I don't like Lieberman, but to smear someone who is not even suspected of a crime, Democrat or Republican, doesn't help at all.

I have looked at the official list of donors and recipients and so far it looks like this is a Republican scandal completely. Why should we wish to find that Democrats were involved? I am very relieved to know that they were not. Rush Limbaugh is telling the lie that they were, as is the MSM. Let's not help them smear people who are innocent. And that includes any Republican who is innocent also. Let's leave smear tactics to the sleazebags who, hopefully, are about to watch their slimy, corrupt house of cards fall. I hate what they have done. I do not want to imitate them.

[Fovea]

12. Your lips to the Gods ears.

That would make my week.

[bee]

5. I was just thinking this exact thing.

If theyre guilty, theyve got to go. period.

[troubleinwinter]

7. We here have been fighting hard for our democracy. If there are rats,

no matter their color or pattern, they must be rooted out.

We are Democracy-ites!

[AZBlue]

8. I'd rather see us regain control of Congress.

I hate dirty politicians, but let's first re-take Congress, then we can get rid of those scum.

[Walt Starr]

10. If they're dirty, they've got to go, period.

Dirty Democrats are unacceptable and retaking Congress with dirty Democrats is unacceptable.

[Kashka-Kat]

18. But that's HOW we regain congress--- integrity

No game playing--the minute you start playing "democratic scum are better than republican scum" games - you lose credibility.

If "none of the above" were on the ballot, "none" would win in the landslide. People--across all party lines-- are fed up with scum.

If--as some are saying-- there are fewer tainted dems than repubs, then what have we got to lose by being honest? There may be fewer, but criminal is criminal and you're shooting yourself in foot by trying to cover up.

[AZBlue]

21. This scandal will get us back in control.

I'm not saying Dem scum are better than Rep scum - to me, they are worse because they should know better and aren't surrounded by the corruption that runs rampant within their party. But, if Dems are involved too, this will water down the scandal's effect with the American people and limit the boost it will cause for the Dems. If Dems are involved, they will have to be prosecuted just like any Rep. But the OP stated that he hopes Dems are part of it and I hope not!!

[Kashka-Kat]

42. Ok I see your point, guess I was looking at the larger issue & not

this case in specific... there are some murky areas even if technically "illegal" still sleazy and questionable...

yep I would be VERY disappointed if a dem was suspected or indicted for criminal offenses. I do expect better. There are some very fine men and women who are NOT the least bit tainted -- so why can't we expect the absolute best from ALL of them?

[ecstatic]

70. amen, we need everything we've got right now, incl. Lieberman nt

[LSK]

9. well its not happening with Abramoff

It will have to happen in another scandal. From all indications, Abramoff despised Democrats.

[Justitia]

11. Seriously Walt? I honestly can't think of a single Dem anywhere near

as dirty as these guys.

Sure, there are some Dems not at the top of my list, but I really can't put them close to those losers on the spectrum, and the financial angle doesn't figure into it at all.

:shrug:

I'd even trust Lieberman with my lunch money, although I couldn't stomach actually eating near him.

[Joe for Clark]

14. I'm with you.

I think 99% of the repubs are on the take and probably 35% of the dems are, too.

They all need to go. If they are left standing, the dems on the take, they are just a problem waiting to happen. We are going to take back congress now. We don't need any scandals at that point.

B*sh is going to be impeached after November. We cannot allow, as good dems, anything to stand in the way of that. Especially any no good dem.

We get to watch Karma take it's natural course. I am sure glad I am not B*sh here.

We all paid dearly to get to this point, this year is OUR year. Dirty dems better resign now. Something is coming, you can sense it.

Joe

[Double T]

15. We need to get rid of ALL the corrupt bastards in Congress and.......

force the rest of the legislators to change the laws on INFLUENCE peddling by lobbyists and special interests (ESPECIALLY THOSE REPRESENTING THE ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT CORPORATE AMERICA).

[jazzjunkysue]

17. Amen, but, so far, dems took free money only from indians

and other legit organizations. So far the GOP hadn't been able to name one dem who broke or bent the rules, or changed a vote inappropriately. None took money directly from abramoff, so, they may all remain in the clear.

It's prefectly legal and almost proper to take donations from any group, as long as you didn't hire their wife and kids, or appoint an undeserving moron.

So, they may all be OK on this.

[MODemocrat]

19. I agree, a crook is a crook, and they should all be treated alike

I've been disappointed so many times in the democratic party, but their aligning themselves with the Bush gang disgusts and infuriates me. They all need to go down together, and the sooner the better. To coin a phrase: "You're only as good as the company you keep." Too bad, but true.
Let's weed them all out.
:mad: :nopity: x(

[Justitia]

24. TIME OUT FOLKS!!! I'm pulling the bell on the line!

Yes, we all agree we don't want ANY DIRTY BIRDS OR $$$ in our party - that's a given.

But before we round up the circular firing squad and start doing the GOPs work for them,

DID I MISS THE MEMO WHERE ANY DEMS HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OR IMPLICATED OF ANYTHING?

All my research indicates not a single Dem took a single dime from Abramoff.

Some dems did receive legitimate contributions from Indian tribes who happened also to be VICTIMS of JackAss.

Indian tribes are historical constituents and contributors to our party.

Why are we going down this unnecessary path?

[mopinko]

27. ding, ding, ding.

NOT ONE!!! NOT ONE!!! NOT ONE!!! NOT ONE!!!
let's wait until we have one before we load our guns.

[seaglass]

25. Nice. My hope is that none are guilty. I guess we all hope for

different things.:eyes:

[rpgamerd00d]

26. There are no Dems involved in the scandal.

So, no worries there.

[Walt Starr]

29. I seriously doubt that

Look at how many DINOs have been voting with Bush over the past five years.

You'll never be able to convince me there are no DINOs involved.

[Justitia]

31. Voting with, yes! Stealing with??? No proof of that.

DINOs are the bane of my existence too, but I have no reason to believe that any of them is on the take.

Don't you think if that was the case the repubs would be clobbering us with that by now?

I am CONFIDENT that there are LEGIONS of GOP faithful sniffing thru every Democrat's dumpster, stalking them, just waiting for discarded receipts for Big Gulps at 7-11 that look fishy.

If you don't trust the DINOs more than corrupt republicans, at least believe in the awesome GOP power to find any whiff of a trumped up allegation against Dems one and all.

[Walt Starr]

37. If you don't believe there are dirty Dems

I think you're simply being unrealistic.

[Justitia]

39. I just want to wait for proof, or even a credible allegation,

before I re-allocate one minute's time away from POUNDING THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

[Zodiak]

40. Walt, I have been reading your posts

for some time, and I must say it surprises me that you say this. (forgive me for being surprised) Not that I disagree. Good on you!

I agree....we should look closely at our DINOs (however you define the term) because their voting record does not add up to being a "Democrat". However, I think that the Abramoff scandal is not going to point to many DINOs.

Corruption, cowardice, or an ideological mismatch with the party.....our DINOs vote the way they do for ONE of these reasons at the least.

[Walt Starr]

57. Maybe it's because I';m from the Chicago region

where Daley cronies are going down regularly for their corruption.

Democrats can be as corrupt as Republicans. It is in the nature of politics for politicians to become corrupt.

[Arkana]

53. Take it easy, friend.

I agree with you--if there are Dems on the take, we need to flush them out as well. Corruption sucks, no matter where it's coming from.

But don't you think we ought to hold our fire until there is verifiable evidence of ONE DEMOCRAT ON THE TAKE? I agree that there are DINOs in Congress, but unfortunately voting against something we want them to vote for (or vice versa) isn't illegal, it's just bad representation.

Seriously, do you think the Pubes are turning inward and shooting each other over this?

[ClassWarrior]

63. Who'd be stupid enough to steal and launder money to avoid...

...the finance laws, then "spread it around" to both sides?? What sense would that make? No, ol' Jack is simply a money conduit for the Corrupt Republicon Machine.

NGU.

[Free the Press]

28. um, Publi Enema #1?

[seabeyond]

30. silly me, i hope there are not any democrats involved, and i dont

know that "you know damn well and good, we have a few Democrats so scummy, sleazy, nasty, and dirty". and i hope we dont find that our democrats are. if they are, yes they will go down, but i wont be jumping up and down with joy. what i do see has happened in the last handful of years is a party that has stolen christianity and morality and family values fail miserably, where our dems have been above this party. and i am "hoping" this will seep into the americans brains and stick, getting our dems into offices

so you hoping that there are dems involved seems really silly to me, that you spend time on this board, your main focusing being on outing dirty dems, that are there somewhere, cause we just know, ......

[Walt Starr]

32. One word

Naive.

Anybody who thinks there are not dirty Dems, is so naive they should give up on politics.

[seabeyond]

34. you are "hoping" there are dems involved. what is the one word

that would describe that walt.

[Walt Starr]

35. Realistic

Because if no Dems go down in this, we have ticking timebombs waiting to go off.

[seabeyond]

44. bullshit. the crime o meter is way higher on dems than it is or ever

has been for a repug. we have to walk the talk cause even if we do right we still get the blame for wrong. dems cant do a damn thing wrong without media and the christians and repugs all over their ASS walt.

dont give me that line. you go on promoting the bullshit dems are as dirty as repugs. i think it is chicken shit

[Walt Starr]

56. Where did I say Dems were as dirty as repugs?

I said a few Dems will be in it with the Repugs. Look at them, out of nearly 250 Democrats in the House and Senate, you're going to have possibly as many as five or six end up stealing along with the Repugs and participating in the crimes of the Repugs.

You could have as high as 25! It's basic human nature.

Anybody who sits back thinking Democrats are as pure as the driven snow is simply naive when it comes to politics. It is very difficult to rise to the higher levels of political power and not be corrupted.

[Catrina]

50. Do you have anything to back that up with?

I have spent a considerable amount of time following this scandal as it unfolded in the Senate Indian Affaris Committee hearings over the past year, and there has not even been a hint that any Democrat was involved. You can be sure that if there was, the rabid attack dogs from the right would have used that little, teeny 'hint' to try to obscure the scope of the corruption throughout the Republican Party that has been revealed in those hearings alone

The fact that these hearings and investigations have been going on for a year, yet not one Democrat has been even mentioned in any of the official investigations may be why the compromised so-called Media has refused to cover it, despite the bombshell revelations that were coming out of the Committee hearings and the sheer drama that took place there over the past year. They must be so disappointed as they watched, that there was no Democrat to report on.

And you don't have to wonder, or wait around for any time-bomb to go off. The official list is available for you to.

This is why Democrats lose. Even when they are innocent, they always have someone willing to 'think' they must have done something wrong. We don't have to help the rightwing and the Media, who have been trying hard to link even one Democrat to this uniquely Republican scandal.

If you have any evidence to back up what is only a theory that a 'time bomb is waiting to go off' then please post it, and I'm sure we'll work to have that person removed from the party. If you do not, I don't understand the reason for this post. I thought you knew something which is why I clicked on the thread.

The truth is that Abramoff would NEVER have given money to any Democrat ~ if you read a little about this seedy saga, you will realize that and it will set your mind at ease.

[Walt Starr]

51. Many Dems have taken money from Abramoff clients

We have yet to see if there are any quid pro quos associated with that money.

[Catrina]

71. Why would a Client of Abramoff

most of whom were his victims, be suspected of a quid pro quo? I'm not following you at all. The clients who donated did so completely legally so I don't get what you're saying. It was his CLIENTS, who he stole from, who finally got him in trouble. They are the same clients who donated perfectly legally to politicians. So I'm not following your reasoning. Maybe you did not see the hearings, and are just listening to the Media, which is furiously trying to paint the 'clients' as being partners in Abramoff's crimes, rather than the victims they were.

[ClassWarrior]

73. You're talking about the LEGAL money. And if...

...there's any sort of quid pro quos, it'll be damn hard to prove. The issue here, however, is the ILLEGAL money which went exclusively to Republicons.

NGU.

[tcfrogs]

36. schadenfreude

:evilgrin:

[Beelzebud]

33. Hey if they did a crime, they should do the time. Fine by me.

[mikelewis]

38. Hell yes... A bastard by the name of Zell comes to mind...

[DemBones DemBones]

52. Zell's been out of the Senate more than a year. nt

[Zodiak]

41. I agree that if Dems are dirty, they should go down

But I am cautious because the ones they have named as "involved" in the Abramoff scandal do not seem like the dirtier of our bunch.

Harkin? I REALLY have a hard time Tom Harkin would be in bed with Abramoff or the Repukes.

I like your approach, Walt. Look for the ones who ostensibly are in bed with Republicans and make sure that they are on the up and up....if evidence says they are not, tar and feather them along with the Republicans. No problem there.

We should also look into Democrats that Bush appointed to investigatory panels and committees...after all, the opportunity for a quid pro quo is there. I have no problem with dragging a corruption fine-toothed comb through our party. Many good Democrats would survive, and the few who do not can easily be replaced by the energized grassroots, who nowadays have more of a voice in the party (thanks, in a small way, to Howard Dean).

[Avalux]

43. I don't think there are any with this scandal.

Seriously - all info says it's all Republican. Those Dems who did receive $$ from a third party may be questionable, but I certainly don't think they're guilty. So far none have been linked directly to Abramoff.

[Generic Other]

46. Be careful not to simply smear Dems with large tribal constituencies

They are getting donations from tribes who are grateful to them for supporting Indian issues. They are not necessarily being bought.

Case in point: The senators from my western state deal with native issues of vital importance to our state. The gambling industry represents a major economic boon to the local economy. Our fisheries allot the majority of the catch to natives. Large reservations control a great deal of land in the state. You can't just call the senators dirty Dems because they accepted donations from Indians. As long as the donations are offered with no strings attached, they are legal. Most native peoples support Democrats for the same reasons we all do here at DU.

Rather than attacking Dems who have received donations from native tribes, I would like to know who among the tribal leadership across the country is involved in corrupt practices. There appears to be some huge money to be made in this gambling racket and some shady dealings that the tribes are involved in. Not much of the money is filtering down to the reservations where poverty is still a fact of life. And even though Dems have worked hard to try and stop the gutting of social programs that impact the poor in this country, the reservations are still suffering. Now if you tell me my Dem senators squelched legislation to support schools, health clinics, affordable housing or refused to support legislation to improve the quality of life for their poor constituents, then I want their asses out. If the YES votes they cast only profited corrupt gambling interests and you can prove they received the money for their votes, then throw them out. So far none appears to accepted money from Abramoff himself, the only one who has confessed to bribing officials. If native leaders step forward and plead guilty to charges of bribing officials, then my senators should be prepared to answer the charges. If they are guilty, a court will indict them.

It's clear that some money changed hands, but it's not clear why. One senator may have gotten money from the tribes during a time when our state was considering legalizing slot machines. A lot of citizens were against it. And so were the tribal casinos who didn't want the competition. Same goals. Different motives. I wouldn't accuse the senator of being bribed to oppose the measure, because the senator probably opposed the idea in the first place.

However when Bush and Cheney peddle their influence to rich friends, when GOP lobbyists buy votes, when lobbyists "hire" thje spouses of lawmakers and send them on elaborate junkets. If my Dem senator was doing any of that stuff...that would be a different story.

[Straight Shooter]

45. I'm not going to do Free Republic's wishful thinking for them.

As for any dirty Dems, if you have suspicions, lay them out and explain just who you think might be guilty. I'm not settling for a broad brush painting that "you know damn well and good, we have a few Democrats so scummy ... etc."

I give no comfort to the fweepers. Zero. Zilch. Nada. I won't sing along with the chorus of "Democrats are guilty, too." AFAIC, no Democrats did wrong in the Abramoff scandal until proved otherwise, and I don't care if they personally are scummy. That's another issue.

[MiniMe]

47. I hope that ANYBODY that is "dirty" gets taken down.

Republican, Democrat, Independant, whatever. We need to clean this crap up!

[newsguyatl]

54. at least one republican

here agrees with you

:eyes:

[kpete]

55. Walt

Absolutely

[Clarkie1]

59. Absolutely...I'm in 110% agreement. eomm

[Skip Intro]

60. Do not agree. Not at all. NO Dems. PRIORITIES!

guilty or not.

this might be our last chance to halt bush's agenda -

that's going to be based on votes -

if only reps are implicated, only reps suffer (comparatively, at least)

we have to win back a majority in one of the houses in 06.

I don't want to think aobut what happens if we don't.

therefore, as much taint as possible to the bots and their puppetmasters, and as little as possible taint on the Dems.

priorities

[Walt Starr]

61. Dirty Democrats are MORE unacceptable than Dirty Repugs

I would be more vehemently in favor of prosecution of a Dirty Dem and here's my reason.

I expect honesty from a Democrat. I know damn well and good every last Republican is dirty (that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it).

I expect Democrats to be above board and honest. A dirty Democrat is a traitor to the party and doesn't deserve the title of Democrat.

My priorities are honest government. I take my country before my party every day.

[Skip Intro]

68. I agree in principle, but we can gain leadership of one house first,

and then seek that justice. Maybe. Damn, I don't know. If at all achievable, we must have Dems take the House of the Senate.

If any of our reps are for sale, I want them taken out with the trash as well, but if there are Abramoff giulty Dems, I don't want them to lessen the blow to the reps.

I'm just being honest, I think too much is at stake, and I had no idea bush was going to crash and burn like he did in 05, and I think there is an opportunity for Dems to really pick up a leadership in one of the houses of congress.

We so desperately need that , that I'm willing to overlook some things on the Dem side to make it happen.

For now, just to achieve a goal.

Maybe that's a bad way to look at things, but there ain't many good ways, is there?

[seabeyond]

69. how holier than thou. not a person on this board will condone a dirty

dem. i have not heard a single person condone dems being in the mire. everyone has stipulated that if their is a dem in this their ass is in the fryer. not one person on this board will go for that. so please, dont act as if you are the only one looking for a clean govt. what i am not getting is your insistence, before anything is out, that we WILL find a handful, maybe up to 25 when there isn't a single bit of evidence to suggest that. further, you are saying you HOPE they find dems in this corruption. this is what i am shaking my head with in wonder, with your op. nothing to do with wanting to let any dishonest person slide by. all about me not wanting there to be dems in this and your hoping their are dems in this

[Walt Starr]

82. Read the thread again

Some here have advocated looking the other way for political gain.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Agree.

I'm sick of the circular firing squad, I prefer our bastards to theirs.

Republicans got where they are by lying, cheating and stealing. It is vitally important that get where they are, maybe there's another path, and maybe there isn't.

The high road is getting fucking lonely.

[Catherine Vincent]

62. Zell Miller comes to mind.

And the few in the past that switched from Dem to Rep.

[Walt Starr]

64. And a few that have been courted by the Repukes in the past five years n/t

[Catrina]

72. How do you mean, 'courted'? Did they take money directly from

Abramoff? You still haven't supplied the names of these 'dirty democrats' who are going to go down in the Abramoff affair? You do realize, that you are doing exactly what the rightwing spin machine is doing, don't you? Speculating and creating an impression that has no basis in fact? Again, give us some facts, not just what you 'think'.

[Walt Starr]

83. Courted to switch parties n/t

[secretmouse]

78. Wouldn't surprise me

If Crazy Zell did the ol' switcheroo again...hoping to be a speaker at the Next Democratic Convention!

He needs to go down, and his constituents in Georgia need to make sure that he does!

[Rex]

66. Thank you for your honesty.

I want anyone involved with this federal corruption and the apparent theft of 5 years of potential growth & American prosperity punished in a court of law.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. Abramoff is the tip of a very large iceberg.

If we really want to change this country, we have to get the money out of politics. All politicians, even the few (very few)honest ones, have to chase money to get elected - or even nominated.

The way to end the corruption - and, the influence of the corporations and the wealthy and powerful, is to take the money out of politics by having federally funded elections.

It's beyond naive to believe that the rich and powerful give money to politicians out of some feelings of civic duty. It's to garner influence. It's equally naive to believe that politicians don't respond, or act to benefit, their major donors.

Hopefully, the public will not just see the corruption caused by the lobbyists and the politicians that take their money but will demand that something actually be done about it.

If Democrats have dirty hands in the Abramoff antics, (and, my own favorite senator from my state - Patty Murray - may be involved), then they have to pay the price.

The "politics as usual" system that is making our country into an oligarchy must be changed.

[AtomicKitten]

77. It would be wonderful to clear out the dead wood.

And to get the big money out of politics. If there ever was a motivating force, this is it. But it is those that coughed up quid pro quo that need to go. Accepting campaign donations with no obligation to perform like a circus animal isn't as cheesy. Still this may scare the bejeezus out of the players and then finally, just maybe, we can come closer to having a government actually for the people, not the lobbyists.

[paineinthearse]

75. Relatedly

Those expressing the view that incumbent DINO's should not be challenged are roundly and routinely bullied down. I say any incumbents who act as rethugs should be treated accordingly.

[mike_c]

76. agreed, 100 percent....

eom

[klook]

79. Donations are not illegal

As long as there's no expectation of favors in return for the contribution, that's not a crime. If it were, the $50 I sent to a candidate would get both the candidate and me in hot water.

I've seen a) no evidence that any Democrats received contributions from Abramoff, and b) no evidence that any Democrats promised Abramoff that they'd provide favorable treatment to Abramoff's clients in return for favors or payments. If there is any such evidence, I'm sure we'll be hearing about it soon. If Democrats were found guilty of either of these acts, I'd be right there in line with you cheering for them to get convicted.

But, again, there is no such evidence, so why stir up Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt by speculating about it? This appears to be a 100% Republican scandal so far.

[KoKo]

80. Ummm Walt..I don't think Biden, Liberman and Hillary are involved in this

I might be wrong...but maybe we could have Daschle turn up in it with SD but aside from Harry Reid...where are there BIG FISH anyone would care about?

:shrug:

[farmbo]

81. Ohferchristsakes...Let's Not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The mere fact that we're wasting time debating this hypothetical issue gives support to the Rove/Melhman/Limbaugh meme that "...they're all crooks; Republican and Democrat alike."

Not a single Dem took $$$ directly from Abramoff. Not one cent, Nada! That has got to be our full-throated message and nothing more!

We've got to Banish this nuanced navel-gauzing about how... gee, maybe three Dems took money from Tribes who were sorta, kinda, maybe, linked to Abramoff...blah blah blah!

In a Diebold-driven elections cycle the ONLY PRAYER the Dems have of taking back one house of congress (and getting the power of subpoena) is to mount the White Charger of ethical reform and ride it staunchly into November '06.

[sandnsea]

84. This thread is demented

Nobody can ever deny that there aren't people on DU whose real agenda is to destroy the Democratic Party, not after this thread. ROOTING for the downfall of people just because you don't like their politics, people who haven't been accused of anything at all. It's sick.

Didn't Howard Dean go against a tribe up in Vermont?? Probably ought to check and make sure he isn't on Abramoff's payroll too. :eyes:

[Skinner]

85. I don't.

Locking.