London Times: Dallas considers tear-down of JFK memorial

[DeepModem Mom]

Old wounds reopened by JFK 'Lego' memorial
From Tim Reid in Dallas

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,279179,00.jpg
The Dallas site is rarely visited (Peter Nicholls/The Times)

A FURIOUS debate has erupted in Dallas after a suggestion that the only memorial in the city commemorating John F. Kennedy should be torn down. His assassination in 1963 still evokes deep feelings of guilt.

Despite the fact that the monument — a stark, empty, open-air concrete box — is widely considered a monstrosity, many people are afraid that public criticism would offend the memory of a man whose murder brought so much unwanted attention to the city.

But this month the ice was broken when an editorial in The Dallas Morning News asked whether it was time to replace the memorial with one “more beautiful, alive and altogether worthy of the slain President”.

It followed comments by the architect Witold Rybczynski, who compared the memorial’s walls to “mammoth Lego blocks”, adding: “It is all poorly done. Kennedy deserved better than this.” One factor that has suppressed criticism is that the memorial, 200 yards from where Kennedy was shot, was designed by Philip Johnson, a renowned architect who was chosen by Jacqueline Kennedy, the President’s widow....


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2088455,00.html

[mattclearing]

1. I don't know anything about this. Anyone from Dallas care to fill in?

I can imagine there being a reasonable argument to replace it, but taking down a JFK memorial would be an invitation to stall/deny rebuilding by Republicans.

[liveoaktx]

7. Well, it's a little weird. You go into this thing and there's nothing

in it, just walls. And it's not like the grassy knoll isn't a memorial itself or for the crass tourist, they can go up the Sixth Floor tourist trap.

[Atman]

2. It sure is ugly

I'm torn on this one. If Jackie Kenney selected the architect, and had no misgivings about its design, that makes it a pretty touchy subject, indeed. BUT...if a more aesthetically pleasing memorial can be agreed upon and put in motion BEFORE this one is removed, then maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing.

It sure is ugly, and it sure doesn't evoke anything about Kennedy in this poster! But I've never seen it in person. Maybe I'm missing something.

[izzie]

10. Sure is not very pretty, is it?

Let them tear it down and put up some thing for Lee. For some reason they do not feel guilty about that. You cam see I had a hard time when I lived in the South and Jefferson Davis was up on the wall and stars and bars was higher on the flag pole than the USA flag. I used to tell my kids, just do not say anything or you will get your self in trouble. It was my real crazy years. Trying to make a Southern out of a Yankee. I ended up just hanging in there and learned the hard way never to make a joke about Lee.

[onehandle]

3. Texans can't wrap their brains around modern art.

Maybe Wal-Mart wants the land underneath.

Fuck them. Build a dumbed down memorial nearby like they did for the Vietnam Memorial in DC.

[mattclearing]

8. You're saying the Vietnam Memorial is dumbed down?

As a local, most people consider it the most affecting monument on the Mall.

Now the WWII Memorial, on the other hand...

[DeepModem Mom]

11. I think onehandle may mean the controversial statues...

that were added to the magnificent Vietnam Memorial wall?

[mattclearing]

19. Ooohhh...

I don't even remember those. I will have to look them up.

[bpj1962]

32. Vietnam memorial

The controversy with the Vietnam Memorial centered around the fact that many people thought that it looked like an upside down V. It was also designed by a Vietnamese American and some felt that the designer should have been an american. The statues are located at one of the entrance and they deplict a group of soldiers. Some felt that the statues did not accurately reflect the ethic makeup of the troops in Vietnam. The other statue is dedicated to the women who served in Vietnam. I find the entire memorial to be the most emotional and moving outdoor memorial in all of Washington.

Don't get me started on the WWII memorial either. I am not opposed to the memorial just the location.

[mattclearing]

34. Yeah, I looked up the pictures of the statues.

I didn't see the problem, honestly, but you can't please everyone.

[onehandle]

22. Yep. I love the Wall. Spent a lot of time there. nt

[CrazyOrangeCat]

12. What is dumbed down . . .

. . . about the names of the slain, etched in black marble?

Would love to know . . .

[Texasgal]

15. Uhhhh... Nice.

Texans CAN wrap their head s around art, when your mind is completely CLOSED you cannot grasp it.

:eyes:

[onehandle]

24. Sorry, 'bout that.

I know many smart and great Texans. It's the Wal-Mart mentality of some Texans I was refering to.

[WI_DEM]

4. I don't think Jackie Kennedy had anything to do with the Dallas

Memorial. It is ugly and if they want to construct a better one then that is fine with me.

[reality based]

5. I don't think we need to feel warm and happy about JFK in Dallas

It was a cold and ugly event from which the country has really never recovered.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. And never will recover, until the truth comes out. nt

[Algorem]

6. save the memorial ,tear Dallas down

[mattclearing]

9. C'mon now...Dallas is majority Dem just like every other city in America,

Salt Lake City excepted. :D

[WI_DEM]

13. Actually Salt Lake City is a Democratic City too and has a

very liberal mayor.

[mattclearing]

16. Thanks.

:)

[Greeby]

21. No kidding

Here's a DU thread I found while sarching for something on the protest he lead against Bush's visit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=181x401

[liveoaktx]

14. Heck, Dallas is on the few cities to pass an anti-Patriot Act provision

http://www.freeandjust.org/updates/CivilRightsSymposium.htm

[mattclearing]

18. .

:)

[derby378]

17. I live in Dallas, and I say keep the memorial as it is

A lot of peace vigils and rallies were held in the shadow of that memorial. Besides, when did this become a debate on Belo Corporations's sense of aesthetics? Just look at how they butchered the DMN over the last few months, for example.

[salvorhardin]

20. It's not as bad as it looks in that photo above

In fact, I really like the concept, but it seems oversized for the site it's on.

Johnson's design is a 'cenotaph' or empty tomb that symbolizes the freedom of Kennedy's spirit. The memorial is a square, roofless room, 30 feet high and 50 by 50 feet wide with two narrow openings facing north and south. The walls consist of 72 precast concrete columns, most of which seem to float with no visible support two feet above the earth. Eight columns extend to the ground, acting as legs that seem to hold up the monument. Each column ends in a light fixture. At night, the lights create the illusion that the structure is supported by the light itself. The corners and 'doors' of this roofless room are decorated with concrete circles or medallions, each identical and perfectly aligned. These decorations introduce the circular shape into the square architecture of the Kennedy Memorial."

"Visitors enter the room after a short walk up a slight concrete incline, embossed with concrete squares. Inside visitors confront a low-hewn granite square, too empty to be a base, too short to be a table, but too square to be a tomb, in which the name John Fitzgerald Kennedy is carved. The letters have been painted gold to capture the light from the white floating column walls and the pale concrete floor. These words - three words of a famous name - are the only verbal messages in the empty room.
http://www.watermelon-kid.com/dallas-sights/features/landmarks/landmarks-jfk.htm

The architect is Philip Johnson, FWIW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Johnson

[onehandle]

25. Thanks for that Info! Now I want to see it myself. nt

[salvorhardin]

27. On a sunny afternoon

I imagine the effect would be quite spectacular.

In 2nd grade my class went on a field trip to the Empire State Plaza in Albany (it had only recently opened) and I've been hooked on modern art, especially sculpture and architecture, ever since. Unfortunately, ever since Pataki came into office the upkeep and cleaning of all that marble has fallen way behind.

[Adelante]

36. Wow! I was so thinking of the Albany Mall

when I scrolled down. A lot of people wanted to tear it down. I'm so glad they didn't get their way. It's in a class with the UN building. I actually like the JFK memorial in Dallas, too. If they want another one, they can just build another one without destroying the present structure.

[reality based]

26. Other pictures and descriptions

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/texas/dallas/jfkmemorial/johnson.html
http://www.jfk.org/Research/Kennedy_Memorial/Contents.htm
http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/kennedymemorial/index.htm

See especially this letter from Senator Ted Kennedy: http://www.jfk.org/Research/Kennedy_Memorial/Letter.htm

[CornField]

28. It wasn't built to be "pretty"

"A place of quiet refuge, an emptied place of thought and contemplatation separated from the city around, but near the sky and earth." ~ Philip Johnson, Architect

Further... from the plaque inside the sidewalk on the way up to the memorial:

The joy and excitement of John Fitzgerald Kennedy's life belonged to all men.

So did the pain and sorrow of his death.

When he died on November 22, 1963, shock and agony reached human conscience throughout the world. In Dallas, there was a special sorrow.

The young President died in Dallas. The death bullets were fired 200 yards west of this site.

This memorial, designed by Philip Johnson, was erected by the people of Dallas. Thousands of citizens contributed support, money and effort.

It is not a memorial to the pain and sorrow of death, but stands as a permanent tribute to the joy and excitement of a man's life.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy's life.

[sdfernando]

29. Leave it as is!

I don't live in Dallas or Texas, but both my parents are from Texas. In fact their 11th wedding anniversary was November 22nd, 1963, the day Kennedy was shot and died.

I made my first ever visit to Dallas in 2004 and I made a point to visit Daley Plaza and the JFK memorial. In some ways, yes it is stark and cold, but this served to remind me of the and coldness and brutalness of his assasination. Entering the memorial, I was at first surprised by the lack of quotes from speaches and/or liknesses of Kennedy. But as I spent some time in there reflecting on this man, his accomplishments, his failures, his dreams...his humanity a peacefulness came over me that I had not felt in a long time. I think the minimalist nature of the memorial allowed my thoughts to wander where they wanted to and not be directed in any way. It was quite a moving and personal experience.

For those that don't like the design let me ask a question...would you advocate tearing down the Washington Monument or the Lincoln Memorial if you didn't like their designs?

[SoCalDem]

30. In this case I would have to agree with them

It's an UGLY, and irreverant "monument". They might as well have erected a billboard that said "Yeah, we did it, so what"?...

I wonder if the Sam Houston monuments are as stark and blah....

Maybe Jackie deliberately planned it to be ugly as an "in-your-face" statement, but she's gone now, and I doubt that Caroline would object to having it removed.....I don;t think that people will ever 'forget' that Dallas was where he was killed..:(

[reality based]

31. I would urge you to read this letter from Senator Kennedy

http://www.jfk.org/Research/Kennedy_Memorial/Letter.htm

[SoCalDem]

33. If Teddy wants it there, I guess it should stay

Maybe it was an "in-your-face" monument after all, and to have it there in all its ugliness at least makes people ask.. "What's that UGLY building"..and makes locals tell them ...psychology in action :)

[MoeHayNow]

35. Until I read that article,

I had no idea there was any "other" JFK memorial in Dallas other than the grassy knoll, book depository, et. al.

And I agree: that's not a very attractive memorial.