If Mary were pro-choice, there would be NO Christmas!

[paineinthearse]

http://1smootshort.blogspot.com/2006/03/i-couldnt-make-such-stupid-bumper.html

I couldn't make such a stupid bumper sticker if I tried. I saw this sticker on a car in Lexington, of all places:



1. She wasn't? I'd generally heard her portrayed as a compassionate sort of person who I would think would be in favor of access to healthcare and opposed to an oppressive government. She raised Jesus to be quite a nonjudgmental guy and all.

2. Do you asshats really not understand the concept of "choice?" See, "choice" is where someone has the freedom to choose whether to give birth. It isn't the act of forbidding women from giving birth.

3. Putting aside the questionable historical accuracy of the Christmas story, if Mary had been infertile, there would be NO CHRISTMAS! Shouldn't you people want to ban infertility based on this same logic?

4. Is your God really stupid enough to send the Son of God to a woman who for whatever reason wouldn't have been able to carry him to term? And not to, like, try again if it didn't work out? How do we know that the Son of God wasn't implanted in several uteri and aborted and miscarried a few times before being born?

5. And, um, wait a second. Don't you people who take the Bible literally also preach that we don't need contraception or abortion because people have the option of abstinence? That approach didn't work too well for Mary, now did it?

[MadMaddie]

1. These people are too stupid.....

[zanne]

2. Ummm.......

Forgive my ignorance--I'm not religious and I've never read the bible, but....wasn't she spiritually raped?

[FreedomAngel82]

42. That can be argued

I don't recall her agreeing to anything. She was basically chosen. As a Christian I believe that God can forsee the future and He knew Mary's heart and that she would go a long.

[bunkerbuster1]

68. Yeah, but it was ok back then. EVERYBODY did it!

kinda like slavery.

[Atman]

3. My favorite cartoon...

An old S. Gross cartoon from National Lampoon. A very pregnant Mary, looking forelornly to the clouds, from which the voice of God is saying "Well, I never said I'd marry you!"

:rofl:

[FreedomAngel82]

43. LOL that's cute

[DS1]

4. Especially since she was effectively raped

[Katherine Brengle]

8. By GOD, no less! n/t

[sandnsea]

19. No, Mary chose

See #13. Mary was given a choice, she did not have to accept the pregnancy. A woman made the FIRST choice to accept Christ as the savior. A woman.

[DS1]

46. I take this comment back

I don't know anything about it

[KittyWampus]

79. Good for you, I really respect that you did that. Not that you need my

validation!
:thumbsup:

[Katherine Brengle]

LOL---

I love that--as if she would have automatically chosen to have an abortion, what a crock.

And I love your #5--abstinence didn't work for Mary, lol.

That should be a new bumper sticker--"Abstinence Didn't Work for Mary"--I could get into that!

[arcane1]

5. if Joseph hadn't been impotent, Jesus would've been a normal guy

and the Son of God would've never been born


hey, illogical irrational claims are fun! :D

[Ken Burch]

55. Which Gospel had an impotent Joseph?

Of course, if he had been, wouldn't all Catholic men have been obligated to become deliberately impotent?

Just think...Joe and Rose Kennedy with NO kids....

[arcane1]

58. I was making the same type of assumption as the sticker

:silly:

[Sparkle]

6. They had abortions back then?

[gollygee]

10. There have been abortions as long as there's been pregnancy

just not medically safe ones.

[arcane1]

12. No, Jehova killed the babies wholesale after they're born

it was ok, though, since the parents were not His "chosen people"

on edit, He does allow abortions, but ONLY if you kill the mother too

:puke:

[FreedomAngel82]

44. I do remember reading somewhere in the OT

God talking about aborting a child. :shrug: I can't recall it now. Sorry.

[blonndee]

51. This is often interpreted as a prescription for abortion in case of

a possibly unfaithful wife:

Num 5:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 5:12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
Num 5:13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and no witness against her, neither she be taken ;
Num 5:14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
Num 5:15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
Num 5:16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:
Num 5:17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put into the water:
Num 5:18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
Num 5:19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
Num 5:20 But if thou hast gone aside instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
Num 5:21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
Num 5:22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make belly to swell, and thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
Num 5:23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot out with the bitter water:
Num 5:24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, bitter.
Num 5:25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:
Num 5:26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, the memorial thereof, and burn upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
Num 5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, , if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

[Stephanie]

7. Oh, the War on Women is part of the War on Christmas!

NOW I get it.

[Cha]

9. Yay! No Christmas!

I could go for that!

[Kerrytravelers]

11. I love how they think pro-reproductive rights means that we're all

just lining up for our quickie abortions. Perhaps we have a coupon for savings on our next abortion? Make it a two-for and bring a friend! :eyes:

Yep. They really are that stupid.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. LOL really

It's like "Oh Mary where are you heading to today?" "Oh I'm just going for my anual abortion!" "Really? Me too! We can car pool!" :eyes:

[Kerrytravelers]

67. I can't wait to get pregnant again so I can get an abortion!

Do they really think that is what happens in our world/ Planned Parenthood and any reputable abortion provider counsels women on all their options first. No one wants to force any decision on a woman- except of course rethugs, who want to force their way of life on EVERYBODY.

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

13. Mary actually CHOSE

That's the whole point of Mary, she was the first one to CHOOSE. She chose faith over indoctrinated dogmatic LAW. She was the first to use her self will to CHOOSE Christ and the promise of salvation. Mary is all about CHOICE.

Arrgh.

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Oh I really like that

Good argument. I'll have to remember that one! Because Mary was very doubtful and everything. Plus back than it would've been a big crime if they found out Joseph wasn't the father so they had to hide her pregnancy.

[Dulcinea]

63. Well said!

Choice is the way of God. I'll remember that.

[KittyWampus]

80. "Choice Is The Way Of God" I LOVE that and am now thinking of a

Meditation on it.

[Coexist]

14. so... it all boils down to the presents - I KNEW it.

Now, come on now - if God came to you and told you that you had His bun in the oven, would you consult the local midwife for that special 'tea' she brews?!

[Bluebear]

15. God was totally incapable of picking another virgin if Mary didn't pan out

Okie dokie!

[Just Me]

16. I thought these people believed in God.

Apparently, they believe our actions can trump God's will.

I am really confused about their beliefs.

[Avalux]

17. Are they saying she was FORCED to have Jesus?

That if given the choice, she would have aborted him and had him against her will? What fucked up logic. :silly:

[dflprincess]

18. Ummmm, if I remember my Catechism correctly

Mary did have a choice. She agreed to be the mother of Jesus, God did not force this on her. Though, I suppose it could be argued that, given God's position as Supreme Being, it was sexual harassment. (I'll probably go to Hell for that remark.)

[sandnsea]

20. lol

Sexual harrasment, now that's funny.

If everything comes from God, so does humor. Can't go to hell for that. :evilgrin:

[dflprincess]

28. After I posted my first comment

it dawned on me, if I go to hell for that, at least Bob Dylan will be there. Remember the line from "Highway 61": "God said you can do what you want, but the next time you see me coming you better run."

[paineinthearse]

39. Highway 61 Revisited

Highway 61 Revisited



Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."

Well Georgia Sam he had a bloody nose
Welfare Department they wouldn't give him no clothes
He asked poor Howard where can I go
Howard said there's only one place I know
Sam said tell me quick man I got to run
Ol' Howard just pointed with his gun
And said that way down on Highway 61.

Well Mack the Finger said to Louie the King
I got forty red white and blue shoe strings
And a thousand telephones that don't ring
Do you know where I can get rid of these things
And Louie the King said let me think for a minute son
And he said yes I think it can be easily done
Just take everything down to Highway 61.

Now the fifth daughter on the twelfth night
Told the first father that things weren't right
My complexion she said is much too white
He said come here and step into the light he says hmm you're right
Let me tell the second mother this has been done
But the second mother was with the seventh son
And they were both out on Highway 61.

Now the rovin' gambler he was very bored
He was tryin' to create a next world war
He found a promoter who nearly fell off the floor
He said I never engaged in this kind of thing before
But yes I think it can be very easily done
We'll just put some bleachers out in the sun
And have it on Highway 61.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. Right

And yes I would say it was sexual harassment as well.

[Cleita]

21. If you take the Bible story literally, Mary would have been

stoned to death and her unborn baby with her in her society for getting pregnant outside of marriage. Her betrothed Joseph intervened and married her anyway, indicating to their village that he accepted the child as his.

So she wouldn't even had been able to make a choice either way. It would have been made for her just like these fundie assholes want to force their choices on pregnant women.

[Just Me]

32. True. The fundies would've murdered Mary and her unborn child,...

,...had they been given the opportunity.

This religious division crap is really getting on my nerves. I wish these people would be stunned into the GOD-GIVEN brains they are neglecting. They ignore the living and are obsessed with the NON-LIVING beyond their power to improve.

UGH!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

49. Bingo

So they don't know their Jesus story do they? But yet they're more Christian than I am because I'm a liberal. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

81. Another brilliant observtion. This turns out to be a great, illuminating

thread.

[displacedtexan]

22. Did Mary have a choice?

I've never read a single "god impregnates virgin" story that said anything about
the virgin having a choice.

Have you?

[xultar]

25. They knew what to take to induce abortions back in those days.

The people weren't stoopid.

[displacedtexan]

35. From what I remember (I have a minor in Religion)...

Mary and Elisabeth were both pregnant at the same time.
Elisabeth was supposed to be barren, and God gave her a child.
Hm. Then Gabriel told Mary that the Holy Ghost would fill her with
God's child, and she would become most holy.

I'm sure Mary wasn't in a position to turn down God.

Interesting, though, that both of them turned up pregnant
under unusual circumstances.

[sandnsea]

38. Who taught you religion?

We're all in a position to turn down God, and we all do it on probably a daily basis. Mary didn't. She most certainly made a choice.

[blonndee]

54. How do you know that she made a choice? Do you have any

evidence for that, or are you just speculating?

[sandnsea]

57. Uh, she said so

"I am the slave of the Lord; let what you have said be done to me."

The Bible is full of stories of people telling God no. She could have too. She didn't. She made a choice. Pretty straight forward.

[displacedtexan]

62. Texas Christian University.

[sandnsea]

36. Of course she had a choice

"I am the slave of the Lord; let what you have said be done to me."

She could have said no. Who knows whether she was the first to be asked to carry the Christ child anyway. She's the one who said yes, that's the whole basis of Christianity, exercising ones faith.

[xultar]

23. Jesus was born in April around the 17th. So the shit is fucked up

anyhow.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. Right

I don't know why December either. Apparently the Catholic Church chose December because they couldn't convert the pagans. I've heard everything from April to September 11th even. Heh heh. But according to the Scriptures it definitely was not in the winter. You can't graze sheep in the middle of winter with frost on the ground. Are they going to eat snow? :eyes:

[KansDem]

24. Capitalism would just come up with another reason to spend money...

Maybe a New Year's tree and New Year's decorations and New Year's cards and New Year's dinner and the New Year's "old man" you can ask to bring you things if you're good.

Maybe the Three New Year's wise guys who visit the New Year's baby lying somewhere.

And don't forget the New Year's holiday sales!

And we would have an extra week after Thanksgiving for more shopping!!!

edited for word order

[frustrated_lefty]

26. I thought she was slipped a roofy?

[lastknowngood]

27. and no one would have had to die for our sins

n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. Sure there would, Mary wasn't Santa Claus's mother!

Merry Christmas!

[DBoon]

30. True, and them we would all be celebrating Saturnalia

and having a much more exciting winter holiday

[murray hill farm]

31. OH, JESUS H CHRIST!

What will they think up next? Course there is always this, If Hitlers mother had been pro choice, then we wouldn't have had the nazis...and thousands and thousands of deaths that came from Hitler having been born. ya cant have it both ways! What if Barbara Bush had been pro choice...theres a thought for ya. But even worse, that bumper sticker suggests that woman who are pro choice would never make a choice to ever have a child...as i said, jesus h christ!!!!!

[Solly Mack]

33. So really, Mary is the reason for the season

just saying...

[sandnsea]

37. Yes

Which is why Catholics revere her.

[KittyWampus]

82. And yet another poignant, insightful observation! Mary brings out the best

in people.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. "If I had been Mary, I'd have said no." - Stevie Smith

British Poet(ess).

[Rocknrule]

40. No Christmas??? How about

no Savior, no great man named JC, and (according to some Christians), no way to get to heaven. These people have the wrong priorities.

[FreedomAngel82]

41. Number four is the best

[drmom]

52. Oh come on...that's like saying

If Mary had fallen off the donkey onto her pregnant belly on the way to Bethlehem, there would be no Christmas.

-or-

If Mary had placenta previa and no access to a surgeon, there would be no Christmas.

-or-

If the cord had prolapsed, there would be no Christmas.

-or-

If a lion had been attracted by the smell of blood, and drug the baby off into it's cave, there would be no Christmas.

-or-

If Mary had decided to name the baby Richard instead, there would be no Christmas (it would be Dickmas).

etc, etc, etc....

[sandnsea]

53. dickmas

:rofl:

Good post.

[Ken Burch]

56. This reminds me of something I read

In the "No Comment" section of The Progressive. They had a story in which a Republican state senator in New York asked where Christians would be if they'd given Jesus ten to life?

[NuttyFluffers]

59. well, i really do hate christmas music...

but jesus is, like, the totally coolest passive hippie love child i could possibly imagine. tough decision...

[theHandpuppet]

60. This coming from a God who smote all the firstborn in Egypt

Drowned everyone -- including men, women and children -- in a flood (save for Noah & family, of course). Oh yes, God has killed plenty of babies, if one is to believe the Bible:

"It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered."

From http://www.evilbible.com/

[theHandpuppet]

61. God is not "Pro-Life" -- they should read their own scriptures!

http://www.evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm

[DanCa]

64. Virgin birth and the embryo?

But if Jesus began as an embryo wouldn't it put the kebosh on the whole virgin birth thingee?

[sproutster]

65. Actually it's completely blasphemous (sp)

LOL if the catholic god were watching that car would burst into flames.

They insinuate that Mary if given a choice would choose abortion.

Nice.

[bunkerbuster1]

69. Actually, they insinuate that women are too stupid to choose.

You know, these flighty broads, going off and havin' them 'bortions at the drop of a hat!

[sproutster]

73. hehe, framing it as any "christian woman" should :P

Serious tho, if I saw that bumper sticker, that's exactly the tact I'd take - Shame shame shame.

That's the mindset of the person who put it there.

[seabeyond]

66. i am pro choice and gave birth to two. most all pro chocie are

birthin babies. stupid damn comment. because we are prochoice doesnt mean we abort, or furtehr abort at all times, and never birth babies.

the stupidest comment yet

[Bridget Burke]

75. Some years ago, I attended a Clinic Defense Training Session...

(I later dropped out, since we were instructed that Anger was not a good reaction.)

A friend at the class had to leave early for baby-sitting duty. For the baby conceived before he & his wife married. They made their Choice!

[CornField]

70. But there will still be Yule

[Toucano]

77. That's exactly what I thought! n/t

[Deja Q]

71. You mean Mary gave birth to wal-mart?

:wow:

[0007]

72. The same sign was on a Church's marquee a few weeks ago

here in Midland Texas.

Every now and then they'll put little white crosses all over their lawn to represent the babies that have died due to abortions.

[KittyWampus]

83. I'd stick wire hangers in front of each little white cross.

[0007]

85. I've thought of that! 'Tis a busy road and I think this nut job

has cameras waiting for someone to do something, so they can get notoriety.

[Bridget Burke]

74. Mary said: "Let it be with me according to your word..."

www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+1&t=nrs&st=1&new=1&l=en

She had her doubts. But she made her choice. Stupid idiots can't even read the Bible!



One can learn, also, that Joseph was upset by Mary's pregnancy. But an Angel of the Lord explained it to him & he accepted the baby. (In those days--in fact, in many past times--betrothed couples were allowed a bit of leeway.)

[Raiden]

76. Stupid Fundies, Mary was pro-choice!

God gave her the choice to bear his son, otherwise the Fundies are claiming that God RAPED Mary! Blasphemy.

If Hitler's mom was pro-choice, there would've been no WWII.

[mattclearing]

78. Yeah, abortionists killed Santa Claus.

Give me a fucking break.

[magellan]

84. Christians are very lucky Mary's parents weren't RW Bushbots

They would have villified her as a whore ("What do you mean an angel spoke to you one night?!") and forced her to give up baby Jesus for adoption to avoid family embarassment.

[The Blue Flower]

86. Mary's husband didn't abandon her

I've been wondering if SD is also strengthening the laws that make sure a man supports the woman in her prenatal care and supports the child after it's born. Is SD budgeting more money for schools and health care for these children? How about beefing up the child welfare department to manage the emotional damage all these unwanted kids will suffer?

[RandomKoolzip]

87. Ah, I see.

Being pro-choice = Aborting every baby everywhere. Ah! Now it all makes sense.


It's just like those bumper stickers that say, "Your mama was Pro-Life, darlin'!" Um, no she wasn't, dickbreath. My mom CHOSE to have me and my brother. She was a dedicated feminist who CHOSE NOT to have an abortion. Pro-CHOICE. Why do they assume that all Pro-Choice women automatically want to abort every fetus that happens to appear in any woman's womb? It just strikes me as appalling that anyone could be so stupid.

[Acebass]

88. Immaculate Conception!...