Arianna disses Al Gore....

[trumad]

"Munich. The most mishandled campaign. Worse than Dukakis '88. Considered the can't-miss pre-campaign presumptive favorite, Munich held back, refusing to be seen as campaigning for the nomination... then once it tossed its hat into the ring wasn't all that impressive on the stump. Think Al Gore in 2000. A big target so it took a lot of hits from commentators and 501(c)3 hit squads. Now seen as having too much baggage. Never really got off the launchpad. Joe Lieberman '04."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/oscar-watch-roundup_b_16847.html

You know--some may call Ariannas comment about Gore a minor diss--- but every single time I read a comment like that about Al Gore, I just want to reach through the super highway and ring the neck of the so-called progressive who spouts it.

It's simply mis-informed bullshit and it helps to seed the myth that Al Gore ran a lousy campaign in 2000. She should know better...

[still_one]

1. he didn't run a very good campaign

and neither did Kerry for that matter

[trumad]

3. Oh really---

At the beginning of the campaign he was at least 15 points down and he came back to win the damn thing. Plus---- he had the media ho's bashing him with bullshit every chance they got.

[bowens43]

6. Make all the excuses you like.

He lost to the dumbest man ever to run for the office and he lost because he ran a lousy campaign. It was a disaster.

[trumad]

8. Prove that he ran a bad campaign...

Prove it...what did he do wrong...

How do you come back from a 15 point deficit in the polls and win the thing if you ran a bad campaign?

[still_one]

15. Your premise is not valid

he should have NEVER been down 15 points, especially considering that he came from an administration which had a steller economy. In fact he distanced himself from the success of the Clinton administration, and allowed * and company to define him

Ask Gore himself what kind of campaign he ran...

[trumad]

18. Bullshit----

He was 15 points down precisely because of Bill Clinton.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. You Prove That, Trumad!

You want others to prove their contentions. I ask you for proof that Gore was 15 points down because of Clinton, who at the time of the campaign kick-off enjoyed a 65+% approval rating.
The Professor

[trumad]

25. 65 percent approval rating among Dems---

But if you don't think that Clinton didn't fire up the conservative base and independents then you're nuts.

Let me say this again. before the campaign even begun-- Gore was down 15 points in most polls. 15 points.

Where did that come from? The campaign hadn't started so where did the 15 points come from?

So--- Al started campaigning and made up the deficit in the polls and went on to win the whole she bang.

Explain how that happened?

[ProfessorGAC]

36. That's Proof?!?!?

It wasn't 65% among Dems. His overall approval rating was 65% at the start of Gore's campaign. The "base" was the same 25% then as it is now. That was the group that would have hated Clinton if Christ himself had come down to tap him on the shoulder and say "This is my boy!" Gore was never going to get that group anyway.

I gave you the 65% as a fact. You just changed it to mean what you wanted it to mean, not what it really meant.

I think Gore's single greatest mistake was distancing himself from a successful president. And, given the popularity he had at the time, that was a gross error. You asked for proof from other people that Gore ran a bad campaign, but seem unwilling to provide anything but invective for those that disagree with you.
The Professor

[trumad]

42. Yo

You don't anti-Clinton fired up the conservative base and pushed Independents away from Gore.

Oh--and what about the poll asking if people liked Bill Clinton?

ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll this week, 64 percent approved of Clintons policies but only 35 percent had a favorable opinion of him personally.


What--you don't think that had a bearing on Gores early campaign?

[ProfessorGAC]

47. Yes And. . .

. . .you're still providing nothing substantive. No, i do not think that has a huge effect. Gore could have run on a "more of the same successes" tack, and could have easily deflected the personal issues. He wasn't the one cheating on his wife, after all. That could have been taken head-on and buried quickly. That was a tactical mistake as well.

And, take a look at most psycho-social textbooks, and you'll find that people in power are very seldom broadly "liked" even when respected for their work. In fact, right here at DU a couple months back, someone linked an article in which Silverspoon's likeability could be psychosocially linked to the fact that a decent body of people don't really think he's in charge.

Those extrinsics need to come in to play. And thanks for that incredibly useful assessment of my mental state in your last post. Pretty classy.

The Professor

[trumad]

50. Sorry about that profess...

I get caught up in the heat of things and blurt out shit like that--again--sorry.

As far as Gore easily deflecting the personal issues... I disagree...the Press had it out for him from day one. He was getting swift boated before anybody knew what a swift boat was.

Look--Agree to disagree--- I think there were powerful forces against Gore and I think despite those forces, he still won--hence his campaign wasn't as disastrous as some would say.

Peace

[ProfessorGAC]

51. OK By Me

We've been buds a long time. No reason to flare this up. And, i will actually agree that Gore had a strong hand set up against him. I guess where we would part on the thinking is that i believe there were clear and obvious ways to combat those forces. One of them would have been to stand WITH the actions of the Clinton administration, and point to the successes. Another would have been to expose the slime behind the scenes who stirred up the whole "whitewater etc." nonsense. Sort of "outswifting the swifties".

The Professor

[still_one]

27. actually you are correct

out of the primaries Gore enjoyed a lead. The problem is his campaign stagnated, and he allowed bush and company to define him

[trumad]

29. NO--- Bush and Rove had an easy time defining him

because the fucking press ate it up and printed every thing the Bush campaign threw at them.

If the press had done their jobs instead of sucking Dubyas dick, things would be different today.

[still_one]

26. I guess you and I will not see things the same way

[trumad]

32. The best documentation in the history of the AL Gore campaign

regarding the press behavior is on Bob Somerby's web site, The Daily Howler.

If you followed Bob and his writings since 2000, then you'd know that 80 percent of the shit said about GORE, is pure bullshit.

[still_one]

31. here is a walk down memory lane

http://www.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/04/25/quiet/index1.html

[trumad]

34. From that piece

"As many of the recent negative articles about the Gore operation have shown, the campaign has been rife with niggling gossip and rumor about possible personnel shake-ups and reshufflings, hints and rumors about tension between campaign chairman Tony Coelho and campaign manager Donna Brazile and so on. But internal dissension like this is almost always a symptom rather than a cause of a mismanaged campaign".

Recent negative articles? What a fucking joke. There were hundreds of negative pieces about Gore and they all weren't about shake-ups in his campaign.They were about BULLSHIT!

[still_one]

35. If the 2008 democratic nominee runs his or her campaign like Gore

did in 2000 what do you think will happen?

[trumad]

39. We'll win again.

Big dif in 2008. Blogs. Progressive blogs. We won't let the media get away with the shit they did in 2000.

[MemphisTiger]

40. Distanced himself from Clinton and alienated the

black vote. Black voters love Clinton and in distancing himself he cut out a valuable base.

[trumad]

43. alienated the Black vote?

Huh?

[MemphisTiger]

60. Black people love Bill Clinton, when the Gore campaigne

distanced themselves from him the black people didn't connect very well with Gore and they stayed at home rather than vote. Clinton was called the "first black president" for a reason.

[NYCGirl]

68. Al Gore says it himself.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/06/29/gore-retreat.htm

[OzarkDem]

13. True, only slightly better than Gore's

As one person put it, Kerry's campaign had only two speeds - fast and neutral.

They were always late on everything, had a poorly crafted message and strategy. They only got good in the last couple of months, far too late to make a difference.

Dems don't seem to have learned either, they still think they can wait until the last minutes of the campaign to criticized the Bush administration. They're always several steps behind Rove. Never works.

[FreedomAngel82]

65. Correction

He didn't lose. He won by 33,000 more votes.

[blm]

67. They both did WAY BETTER than corporate media would show.

.

[mdmc]

2. I think that the Dems ran a lousy 2000 campaign.

I mean, they couldn't get me, a diehard Dem, to vote for their rat worm, pro death penalty and pro drug war ticket.

That being said, Bush has knocked the progressive-purity right out of me. The Dems could run Zell Miller, or any other rat worm dlc candidate, and they would have my vote over a green or a republican.

[trumad]

4. So who did you waist your vote on?

[mdmc]

55. In which election?

In 1992 Clinton...In 1996 Nader...In 2000 Nader...In 2004 Kerry...

Bush has forced me to drink the dlc kool-aid... If we (dems) endorse Zell Miller I will vote for him. The Dems could run a yellowdog, and I would vote for the Dem over the most liberal GOP.

[bowens43]

5. Myth?!?!?!

Gore DID run a lousy campaign. He lost what should have been an easy victory. He lost to the idiot. That speaks for itself. Unfortunately, Kerry followed in his footsteps.

[trumad]

7. You are so misinformed.

I'll say it again---Gore--at the beginning of the campaign was 15 points down---yeah--right at the start. Do you have any idea why he had such a hard campaign? Do you have any idea how the press used him as thier own little punching bag and made up a whole bucnch like Love Canal-- I invented the internet.

[OzarkDem]

17. GOP has been doing that for a dozen years now

You would think Dems would have figured out a way to control their own message, but they haven't. They still insist on the last minute surprise attack, which doesn't work.

Dems need to wage a never ending political campaign in the news media and define their own issues and party and stop waiting until the last minute.

[Chiyo-chichi]

23. He did not lose.

But you know that, don't you?

[emulatorloo]

9. I think it is hard for Arianna to stop trashing Dems; she is so good at it

She did so well with it as a Republican Talking Head. While she had a wonderful conversion, It seems to me that sometimes she just slips a gear and gets back in that mode.

Glad she created huffpo, though.

[OzarkDem]

10. Most of his staff were from Dukakis' campaign

Never could figure that one out. They were the most incompetent, arrogant people I've ever seen running a campaign. I would hope they'd all be banished from politics forever, but many of them are still out there working.

[trumad]

11. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how they ran a bad campaign?

[Armstead]

24. Muddled, message, stiff candidate, avoided real issues

Gore gave a great nominating speech that was full of populist fire and had the right message.

But then he went back to his waffling ways, and tepid DLC tone and ineffectualness. one day he was a conservatiuve modate, then he'd zig to a more liberal position, then he'd zag back to being a moderate....He was also stiff and boring in his speeches.

He also let the media shape perceptions of him, rather then takling them head on and making the media an issue. The dangers of media consolidation were vividly illustrated but that was one of the core issues Gore failed to addres.

Since 2000, the newly liberated Gore has been a much improved model. he could be just what the doctor ordered. But that doesn;t change the fact that he ran a lousy campaign in 2000.

[trumad]

28. Of course he's a newer and improved Al Gore.

BUT if people dimiss the power of the media during his 2000 campaing then I will call them misinformed. It had a huge play in that campaign and I certainly think it was big enough for him to lose a considerable amount of votes.

The press hated Gore and loved the idiot king.

[Armstead]

45. That ws part of my point

The new and improved Al Gore ha actually taken on the media and the dangers of a corporate consolidated media.

But the old Al Gore went along with the very cause of the problem, which was media deregulation.

That's the problem Democrats have had. They have not gone at the core of the problems we and complain about. Healthcare, media, outsourcing etc. It's all a result of several basic problems 1)Increased concentration of Wealth and Power 2)Deregulation of fundamental industries and services 3)Privatization of the Public Sector 4)The lack of recognition of these problems and a traditional liberal/progressive message from our side of the fence. This has enabled the phony right-wing CONservative agenda to go unchallenged.

Gore flirted with actually addressing these issues in 2000, but he stepped back and reverted to this lack of a core message in 2000.

[mdmc]

56. ditto

:kick:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. He did run a lousy "play it safe" "not as bad as" campaign.

And, he paid for it in Florida by losing the progressive vote. I held my nose and voted for him, but if he'd shown what he's really about as he has done recently, he'd have walked over the Boob and nose holding wouldn't have been necessary for the progressives who did vote for him.

[trumad]

16. He won in Florida--you do know that don't you?

He had Clinton fatigue and and extremely biased press going against him and he still won. He had dick weed Ralph Nader taking votes, and he had passive democrats that had to hold their noses to vote for him.... Oh and thanks so much for holding your nose to vote for AL Gore. That's so big of you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Thank you! I appreciate your bold defense of mediocrity.

You must be an Alpha Male like Al was advised to be by dressing in "Earth Tones" by his brilliant handlers. The same kind of brilliant handlers that got Kerry to murder a goose and "report for duty" to win the redneck vote.

[trumad]

44. "Earth Tones" by his brilliant handlers

There you go... I knew that someone would spout a right wing myth. You do know that the Earth Tone thing is pure bullshit don't you? You do know it never happened. Nah--you wouldn't know that because just like millions of misinformed Americans, you believe most of what you read in the newspapers.

Let me help educate a bit about the Earth Tones.

http://www.google.com/custom?q=earth+tones&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac32a032061318778%3B&domains=dailyhowler.com&sitesearch=dailyhowler.com

[mdmc]

62. never heard about the earth tones

but the dlc pitched everything that they did to focus groups... The 1992, 1996, and 2000 dem campaigns were all about feel good cheese... without substance...

[radio4progressives]

14. Sorry, but Arianna is right about the campaign

it was an absolutely terrible campaign. Dollars to donuts, Al Gore would agree with that assessmnent. It would be interesting for someone to sit down and have a candid interview with Gore about it, as well as an important service to voters and the party.

[trumad]

19. Why was it terrible?

He won despite Clinton, the press, etc.

[astonamous]

20. For the average American, Gore did run a poor campaign.

For those of us that knew before he ran that he is intelligent and progressive thinking. But for the average American that doesn't follow politics, Gore's campaign didn't give him much of a voice. Gore and Kerry let the Repubes define them and those definitions stuck.

That doesn't mean Gore lost the election, but he could have done better.

Remember, some Democrats and Progressives were just saying last month that Gore has finally found his voice. Would they say that if his 2000 campaign was more aggressive?

[trumad]

22. The average American was influenced by a media

that ate up every Repub talking point and they fabricated all kinds of bullshit about AL.

Love Canal-- Internet-- Nammi-- and on and on--- Average American believes what the press says and that hurt Gore considerably.

[astonamous]

57. Because Gore allowed it and didn't define himself.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of politicians believe that most Americans are paying attention all along, when in reality most are watching American Idol or the Simpson's and don't know the candidates except by the commercials that interrupt their favorite program. I think Gore is one of the most intelligent people in this country, but then again, I've been paying attention all along.

[izzybeans]

30. In comparison to the passion he speaks with now he was an unimpressive

automaton for those who disliked his intellect.

Is this what she was addressing? I admit to being a bit mystified by his Mr. Roboto impression during that campaign. Never bring a lion tamer to a cat fight Al. I blame his managers.

[reality based]

33. Gore lost his home state of Tennessee, he lost Arkansas.

He seemed to pin his hopes on Florida, pandering to the pro-kidnapping gang there (remember Elian Gonzalez?), believing that he could overcome the fix that was being implemented there by Jeb Bush and his cohorts. He rallied his campaign with populist rhetoric at the convention and then neglected those themes during the remainder of the campaign-- thereby losing any chance of carrying border states like West Virginia and Missouri. He crudely tried to provoke Bush into losing his cool in the debates. He gave up competing for Ohio. In spite of all that he won but then failed to fight publicly and politically for his victory. We would have followed him to hell if he had demanded that the principles of democracy prevail in deciding the Florida electoral vote. He did not lead at a critical time when we needed him to.

[trumad]

38. Let's talk Florida shall we...

As I recall--- A guy named Jeb was the Gov at the time and a skank named Katherine was the Sec. of State. Oh-- and Gore still garnered more vots that Brother George.

Oh but he still ran a lousy campaign in Florida... uhhh sure--OK.

[reality based]

46. Part of a good campaign is making sure your votes get counted

There was little chance that the Supreme Court was going to allow an honest count without a publicly articulated political campaign in support of democracy led by the Gore during the weeks after the election. Shifting to lawyer mode only gave the Republicans a free ride in the media and allowed them to frame the issue. Study how Andrew Jackson dealt with his "defeat" by John Quincy Adams in 1824 to understand how Gore should have dealt with the theft of 2000.

[trumad]

49. Well thats a different ball game and I'll tend to agree with you there.

[skipos]

41. Gore could have run a better campaign IMO, same for Kerry. nt

[trumad]

48. Look--I'm not saying he ran a great campaign..

It could have been better. I'm just saying that the campaign he ran was good enough to overcome obstacles like the press and still win the whole damn thing.

[mdmc]

59. well it was almost that good.

but the thief is cheif...

[RazzleDazzle]

52. I thought it was a lousy campaign too --

or rather, what was lousy about it was how over-managed Gore was and allowed himself to be.

That's my own observation at the time, not influenced by ANYone else at any time.

I know I didn't even want to vote for him, but felt obligated. I feel very differently about him now, now that no one's "managing" him, and I'd actually like to see him run again, IF he can be true to himself and ditch or ignore the handlers.

Objectively, I just think you're too biased and perhaps protective of him on this.

[MessiahRp]

53. I love Al Gore but...

He wasn't exactly fire and brimstone with his speeches in 2000. Which is sad because his concession speech and every speech afterwards have had so much fire and intensity in them that had he spoken that way during the campaign, he surely would not have lost his own state and ultimately the election.

(I consider Tennessee the turning point since I figure Jeb and Harris had Florida rigged from the start)

I loved Kerry too and thought he gave some brilliant speeches but whatever it is, the operatives around them had both men hold back on what they so strongly believed in to appease the centrists and it came back and bit both of them. Gore was called robotic and Kerry was called aloof. The caracatures stuck and before either had a chance to disprove it they were fitted into a boring/uninspiring mold to which their advisors helped stuff them into by not letting them be them. And it's said since both men have been so damn inspiring since their elections ended.

I pray that the 2008 candidate realizes that there basically is no middle anymore and just speaks from the depths of their heart and revives the passion in their souls when speaking to America.

It's the only way we can win and inspire Americans to vote for us, in my honest opinion.

Rp

[WCGreen]

54. Arrianna doesn't know what she wants to be.....

A personality, I guess...

But I care naught for what she says....

[ryan_cats]

58. His campaign can't have been too bad, he won after all.

His campaign can't have been too bad, he won after all.

[MemphisTiger]

61. He should have won in a landslide

and still be president

[mdmc]

63. a huge landslide

:kick:

[politicasista]

64. Who cares? She never knows what she is talking about anyway. n/t

[stepnw1f]

66. He Ran a Great Campaign and Won the Election