It appears the newly formed U.S. Detention camps are for real.

[sarcasmo]

Bush's Mysterious new Program, what some of us here on D/U have known all along. See you all soon at the detainment camps.


Snip < I stand by this president's ability, inherent to being commander in chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat.


Snip< But recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be considered helpful to the enemy. Top U.S. officials have cited the need to challenge news that undercuts Bush's actions as a key front in defeating the terrorists, who are aided by "news informers," in the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Snip<Scott speculated that the "detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law." He recalled that during the Reagan administration, National Security Council aide Oliver North organized Rex-84 "readiness exercise," which contemplated the Federal Emergency Management Agency rounding up and detaining 400,000 "refugees," in the event of "uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the United States

http://www.alternet.org/story/32647

[FormerRepublican]

1. Well, at least we'll be in good company.

Think about what it would be like if we were forced into a camp with a bunch of Republicans! (Now THAT is cruel and unusual torture!)

[BR_Parkway]

8. We wouldn't even need to bring our computers to talk to each other

like we do now. Hopefully someone on the outside could smuggle in news though.

[coalition_unwilling]

57. LOL (to keep from crying)-n/t

[Chiyo-chichi]

73. Nope, all the "news informers" are gonna be in there with us.

[blue cat]

124. too funny

big belly laugh

[LynnTheDem]

83. There would be plenty of republicans with us; Brent Scowcroft,

Lindsay Graham, Chuck Hagel, Stormin' Norman, General Odom, James Webb, General Zinni,...

TOP REPUBLICANS BREAK WITH BUSH ON IRAQ STRATEGY
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60B11FB3F590C758DDDA10894DA404482

Republicans Who Voted Against Iraq Resolution Tell Why
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/10/11/194543.shtml

"A Republican Dissent on Iraq"
Full page ad in Wall Street Journal by major GOP contributors:

"Mr. President, …The candidate we supported in 2000 promised a more humble nation in our dealings with the world. We gave him our votes and our campaign contributions. That candidate was you. We feel betrayed. We want our money back. We want our country back…. A Billion Bitter enemies will rise out of this war."
- Wall Street Journal, January 13, 2003

Oh yeah, lotsa republicans will be with us.

[eppur_se_muova]

104. Barbed wire faces both ways, right? A lesson from apartheid.

Which side is the prison, and which side the "outside"?

[Greyhound]

2. I know what you're saying to yourself, why didn't I take the blue pill?n/t

[file83]

44. Ignorance is bliss....*chomp*

[sarcasmo]

3. I would rather know the truth than be lead blind by the sheep.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. At least you can prepare

[dysfunctional press]

4. hoo-boy...much ado about NOTHING.

in case you hadn't noticed, practically the entire u.s. army is having more than a little difficuly containining the iraqi insurgency...how in the hell would they ever be able to enforce martial law for no real reason in this country?

relax.

there is still power in numbers.

[Nickster]

5. I stopped sweating when I read the part about FEMA being in charge.

[dysfunctional press]

9. 400,000 refugees sinking into the mud in arkansas...

once FEMA rounds them up and gets them into the trailers, that is.

[Canuckistanian]

19. LOL, you got that right

These guys couldn't pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel...

[SupplyConcerns]

23. Martial law is actually FEMA's true purpose

FEMA was created to control and contain the populous in the event of a devastating nuclear attack by the Soviets. So I wouldn't judge them based on their Katrina performance.

[Tsiyu]

47. Containing the populace?

Hey, I will judge them on Katrina. They didn't have their shit together then and they don't have it together now.

[FreedomAngel82]

52. That was on purpose

[lostnfound]

68. I agree. This morning CNN headlines said Pentagon would take control

during the next emergency as a response to the "failures" of response to Hurricane Katrina.

[SmokingJacket]

76. Really???!!!

Wow.

:scared:

[Sugar Smack]

53. LOL!!!!!!!!!

:spray:

[laylah]

153. ..

:rofl: Good one!

[snacker]

175. LOL Great comment!!! n/t

[sarcasmo]

7. If you have already forgotten. NOLA citizens had their guns taken away

in the aftermath of the hurricane by the blackwater mercs. Do not put anything past these IDIOTS in charge and I am certain these prisons just aren't being built for the hell of it.

[dysfunctional press]

11. i'll tell you what-

i'll let YOU lose enough sleep over it for both of us.

btw- IF what you say about NOLA residents/"blackwater mercs" is true- then i would say that they didn't have their guns taken away- they gave them up.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. OK, when a dozen armed and armored men break into your house

at 3:00 am, are you going to "give up your gun"? Or will you choose to die, right then and there?

[dysfunctional press]

30. I'll worry about it when the time comes-

and since it isn't coming, i'm not going to worry-

tell me- these "armed and armored" dozen-men squads...will they be visiting everyone on the same night(kinda like santa claus- with a twist)?
One at a time?
a hundred or so a night?

what?

there are A LOT of houses, with A LOT of guns in the good 'ol u.s.of a.
"they" will need A LOT of 12-man squads to cover them all, especially if they want to accomplish it before the others catch on...

btw- are you catching on yet? or should i continue...?

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. No. Like I said elsewhere, they can target the ones they want.

They can take out those likeliest to resist first. After all, there's no reason to take guns away from the loyal stooges.

First they came for the communists.
Then they came for the trade unionists.
Then they came for the Jews.

Should I continue...?

[dysfunctional press]

36. so far they haven't come for anyone...

not the communists(that ws the 50's- not today),
not the trade unionists,
not the jews...

wake when "they" start coming...for anyone.

btw- 9/11 gitmo hostages are a different ballgame- although i don't support it, and believe it to be a continued shame for our nation...and no matter how much they expand it- the entire liberal population of the states won't fit.

[file83]

46. Yeah, but you can not deny the fact that "they" are setting up prison

camps. So how do you explain that?

[dysfunctional press]

69. yes i can.

one article from one website, peppered with words like "speculate" "possibly" and "could" does not a prison camp make.

how many people do you personally know who have seen the actual prison camps you speak of, or know of their exact or even approximate locations...?

paranoia...self-destroyah...

[file83]

85. No, I asked for an "explanation" - not a weak piece of rhetoric.

(and the "paranoia self-destroyah" line is getting just a bit over played.) It was weak before, it isn't getting any stronger.

[dysfunctional press]

89. explain what?

you said that i can't deny that "they" are setting up prisons- my reply is that i most definitely can. what proof do you offer that goes beyond paranoid speculation?

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jberryhill]

147. I've been shouted at for this before...

...but what the heck.

Every single time the US goes on some foreign adventure and then withdraws, we bring a lot of folks back with us. In 1975, when we left Vietnam, we took 135,000 hangers-on with us. Many were housed at military bases which are no longer available.

Likewise an invasion of Iran will generate a flood of those who have either provided some sort of assistance or already have connections in the US.

Is that what this contract is about? Who knows. But the notion that we are going to pull out of a country which we invaded, without generating a similar bump in emergency immigrants ignores what historically happens in these situations.

Let's put it this way... what is YOUR plan for dealing with all of the Iraqi government officials who we installed, their families, the police, and everyone else who would be immediate toast when we leave? Put them in the SuperDome until they can be settled?

Of course, the first big chunk of people you are going to have to lock up are all of the folks up and down the military chain of command who are not going to go along with a political detention program. But, whatever...

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Quakers and Arabic legal citizen's they've gone after

Find the film "UnConstitutional." Months after 9/11 they prisoned American-Arabic legal citizen's for no reason at all for months.

[dysfunctional press]

65. well then, i'm glad that i'm not "American-Arabic"...

now if Norweigan terrorists ever pull a 9/11 on us- i might have reason to fret.

[truth2power]

96. So as long as it's not YOUR

particular ethnic group they're picking up, it's just okey-dokey with you?? I can't believe you wrote that.

[Critters2]

100. I've lived among the 'Wegians for years.

I must admit I don't see much threat of terror, unless someone takes away their coffee and kringla. Then the ghost of Cleng Peerson will arise, and I hate to see what happens! :bounce:

[Strelnikov_]

121. But They Do Come Wielding A Seasonal WMD . . . . . Lutefisk n/t

[Critters2]

132. Uff da!!

:hide:

[Hardrada]

138. It's not bad with melted butter.

[coalition_unwilling]

60. Are you crazy? In the immediate aftermath of 9/11

the U.S. INS rounded up over 10,000 immigrants on trumped up charges of minor visa violations. Many of them were held in brutal conditions, documented by the U.S. Attorney General's own Inspector General.

[dysfunctional press]

63. not me or anyone i know...

how many did you know?

and i'm not an immigrant...but if they had visa violations- well...a violation is a violation. or are you defending illegal immigrants?

if i was in ANY country, in violation of immigration laws, i would expect problems- especially in the aftermath of a 9/11-type incident.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. Which is exactly the point of what I posted above --

First they came for the communists, but I was not a communist so I said nothing.

Then they came for the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist, so I said nothing.

Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I said nothing.

Then they came for me, and there was nobody to speak for me.

"Not for me, or anybody I know" is the same, exact problem. It's always the other guy. Until it isn't.

[dysfunctional press]

74. but "they" haven't come for ANYONE.

except the law-breakers.

:silly: :crazy: :silly:

[RaleighNCDUer]

78. And when it is declared illegal to display a protest sign outside

of a 'free speech zone'? How many law breakers will that make? And when it's declared illegal to be gay, how many law breakers will that make? And when it's declared illegal to write uncomplimentary things about The President on an on-line discussion board, how many lawbreakers will that make?

You might note that one of the provisions of the Patriot Act empowers the Uniformed Secret Service to arrest 'disrupters' at their discretion.

The government has already infiltrated such dangerous groups of lawbreakers as Quakers, because of their opposition to the war in Iraq. And simply by being a member of this discussion board, you've probably opened a file upon yourself. (Hi, Agent Mike!)

The Devil's greatest trick was to convince the world he did not exist.

[dysfunctional press]

91. when...if....

too much paranoid speculation will give you ulcers.

btw- i've already had federal agents in my home(august 2001) over something i posted on a message board(have you?)...and i'm still not buying it.

[leveymg]

152. Out of curiosity, can you tell us what you posted?

It must have been very specific about methods and intentions.

[dysfunctional press]

155. it was on the bartcop forum-

somebody asked(in august 2001) if there was anyway under the constitution for Al Gore to become president before the 2004 elections-
i posted something to the effect that Al could/would have had to be elected to congress in 2002, with enough of a democratic majority to elect him speaker-of-the-house THEN (here's the part that brought the SS to my door) all it would take (have taken) would be the "simple matter" of a double-assasination to put Al Gore in his rightful office.

the SS apparently couldn't see thru the sarcasm, and sent agents to check me out- a few times, since the first time, when i saw men with suitcoats and guns at my front door, i didn't answer the bell- so they came back at 6AM the following morning- i wasn't in, so my wife took their card- i called them later in the day, and they came by, talked, and took my picture.

and this remember was august 2001- before there was a 9/11.

HOWEVER- after all this and a second stolen election- i still do not fear the mass round-ups that some people apparently are convinced are coming.

[leveymg]

157. That's like joking about having a bomb while waiting at the airport

Neither the SS nor TSA have much of a sense of humor about such things, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, they can point to a lot of cases where real loonies have talked about violence before actually attempting to carry it out.

I think in your case the secuity guys went overboard -- your comment was speculation in the abstract about an entirely improbable chain of events -- but it shouldn't be too much of a shock that Agent Mike and Steve did what they did.

Another Q, if you will, do you have problems getting on airplanes?

Thanks for talking about this. It helps us all understand a lot better the reality of living in a total surveillance society.

[dysfunctional press]

158. this past september we flew for the first time since 9/11-

to vegas and back again...no problems.

what gets me is the number of man hours put into it- they came by on three seperate occasions- always two people, and the first time, they hung around the neighborhood for several hours(during which time, having gone out the back, i walked past their car- w/g12 plates- several times, trying to figure out who/what/why they were there.)

[leveymg]

171. Glad that didn't lead to your being grounded

:hi:

[libhill]

172. So much for freedom of religion -

by the way - wasn't their boy Tricky Dick a Quaker? These fuckers are insane. Canada is looking better all the time.

[liberalhistorian]

82. I personally know of at least three.

The husband of an acquaintance, (in OH), who was arrested shortly after 9/11 on trumped-up charges which were conclusively proven to be without merit. Yet, he's still being held in federal prison in PA because he's a "threat" to his family. There were previous domestic violence charges against him, which his wife admits, but that was a few years before he was arrested and they'd apparently worked it out. She was American, he was from Yemen.

She became very depressed and had her three children taken away from her by the county social services agency. Her social worker was subseqently taken off of her case, finally, due to bias against Muslims (she had placed the children with Christian families despite the mother's request to have them placed with willing Muslim families from her mosque, the dept. is supposed to comply with such requests).

There was no reason to arrest the husband in the first place, and no reason to keep him imprisoned. And no one cared, really, because hey, he's just an A-rab, and we all know that they're all guilty, anyway, right?

There are two other similar cases that I know of. And I know of others who also personally know of such cases. Just because YOU haven't personally experienced it or know anyone who has, doesn't mean it isn't happening, not at all. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :mad: :puke:

[dysfunctional press]

92. the point is- it's not going to happen to "ordinary" americans...

on a widepread basis, as the op implies. i obviously don't know the particulars of any of the cases you're aqquainted with- but going from detaining a violent yemenese man post 9/11 to mass imprisonment of american nationals for political views is A LOT more than just a hop, skip, and a jump.

[readmoreoften]

144. By ordinary americans I guess you mean straight christians.

I guess you mean white straight christian americans. Pot smokers and homeless vagrants are also breaking the law, so are teenagers who drink beer. So fucking what. We have something called DUE PROCESS in this country. Monitoring people and throwing them in a detention center for minor infractions of the law is not due process. And being an 'illegal immigrant' is hardly a dangerous crime. I don't lose sleep worrying about disorganized graduate students who filled out their paperwork incorrectly or poor Mexican women working as maids in the mansions of Republican mansions. There's a word for people who do: freepers.

What about a man from yemen who got into a bar fight? Lock him up too? Might as well forget about habeus corpus while we're at it too, huh?

It's called "incrementalism." They acculturate you to anti-democratic consequences for resistance in increments so that it doesn't psychologically challenge the citizens. Looks like it's working well on you! You don't even think it's a big deal that the FBI have investigated you for comments you've made on a website!

[jberryhill]

148. Hmmm...

A battered wife and her husband "worked it out"? So the battery was not a crime, then. Uh-huh. And his immigration status at the time was what, exactly?

Wife can't function when abusive husband is removed? That's not unusual either. I wonder how they "worked it out".

[liberalhistorian]

163. I'm not saying it wasn't a crime.

I'm saying they apparently had counseling and he learned how to deal with anger issues and they learned how to work through cultural issues. She had a B.A. (they met in college) and her own job. She was just very depressed because she could hardly see him (he's in federal prison in PA, many hours away, and there are a lot of restrictions) and prison phone calls are extremely expensive. She had no idea when or if he would ever be released and they'd be permitted to resume their marriage and regular life. And she had three young children, you know how demanding caring for young children is under even the most normal circumstances. And he was a legal immigrant with legal status, there were no illegal immigration status problems.

[truth2power]

97. Straw man. n/t

[leesa]

137. You sound like a swell person. No one you knew so its A-OK, then.

The camps Ollie North constructed still exist and have been validated many times. They are probably in the archives on this site.

[dysfunctional press]

154. and how many american citizens were rounded up into those?

more likely they were constructed as a place to house the hangers-on and their families that ollie brought back with him from his foreign adventures.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. How do you know it's not coming?

It could happen tomorrow, next week, next month or next year.

[dysfunctional press]

62. or never.

i refuse to live in fear.

take it as it comes...

hang loose, brotha.

[Terran]

116. I have to agree with you.

Even the entire US military, or what's left of it on this continent, pitted against the entire gun-owning contingent of US citizens? I'll bet on the civilians, thank you.

[FreedomAngel82]

54. Go and watch the hearings

Listen to the NOLA citizen's talk about what happened. One woman compared it to a Concentration camp.

[dysfunctional press]

64. i'm sure that she did.

people can tend to get over-emotional.

[Leopolds Ghost]

166. You didn't know they shot at anyone attempting to leave the city on foot?

Educate yourself on the subject before tsk tsking. Thanks!

[dysfunctional press]

168. bullshit.

"they" (btw- who do YOU mean by "they" in this instance?) didn't shoot at people for trying to leave new orleans- the redneck fuckwad sherrif of gretna(?IIRC) and his deputies threatened people trying to "enter" their town or parish or whatever it was.

but if you have ANY credible information that ANYONE trying to leave New Orleans by ANY ROUTE on foot was SHOT AT- and by whom, a link would be greatly appreciated.

if you don't have such a link- go shit in your hat.

[kineneb]

42. but not crossbows

or regular bows...bodkin points should go through kevlar... start practicing, folks...

:)

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. What martial law?

Ever hear of "night and fog"?

There are federal agents at every protest and rally, busily snapping pictures of the the participants. You've seen them.

You know that they have the capability to identify us. We've seen it from the arrests that followed riots caught on video, where annonymous rioters were picked up days later, identified by the videos. DHL and the FBI could certainly have dossiers on the 10,000 likeliest protest leaders and, with the assistance of local police, pick them all up literally overnight. But more realisticly, they could be picked up one at a time, over a matter of weeks, and no one would be the wiser. If spontaneous protests did erupt, the entire crowd could be herded into pens, as in New York last year, and most the protesters would wind up being terrorized into silence and released in 48 hours, while a few would remain in indefinite arrest.

The military is having trouble with the Iraqi insurgency because there are a mere 130,000 troops holding down 25,000,000 citizens. Here, if martial law was declared, it wouldnot be for "no reason" but be because of violent protests, terrorist attacks or natural disaster, and the government would have the resources of millions of military, national guard, state and local police and mercenary militias such as Blackwater; and a quarter of the population would enthusiastically support it, while at least another quarter would tacitly support it 'for the duration of the crisis', not wishing to believe our own government could actually do this.

In Germany, the Nazi government had to imprison less than a million of their own citizens, of their 85 million, to overwhelm resistance to their regime. And they did it without ever declaring 'martial law' as we understand it. They simply removed the populace's capability to protest, removed their legal protections, and removed their leaders.

Power in numbers is meaningless if the numbers have no power.

[dysfunctional press]

31. i'll tell you what-

you and sarcasmo there can get together and lose enough sleep over it for everyone.

i'll be the one sleeping soundly.

:eyes:

[5X]

34. Anyone that chooses to sleep soundly during these times...

will be breathing in some dirty air.
Hard to breathe with your noggin in the sphincter.

[dysfunctional press]

35. ?

i can't honestly say that i grok to whatever it is you're trying to say...

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

75. yes- i got that much about you from your post-

but what are you trying to say...?

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. I haven't slept well in over five years.

On 9/11, my first thought was "the people that are behind this are fucked."

My second thought was "and so are we."

As it turns out, only the second part was true, because this government didn't give a damn about Bin Laden and the terrorists (assuming they are the ones behind it all). It did, however, present them with a great excuse to grab and hold power. And they are not going to let go as a result of some amicable election.

We saw it in 2002, 2004 -- any bets on 2006?

Everything they do is test cases -- holding American citizens without charges indefinitely; free speech zones; mass round-ups, as at the Republican convention; warrantless wiretapping; the list goes on and on. At every point they are testing the boundaries, pushing the limits on what the people will tolerate. We tolerated free speech zones - now, they are ubiquitous and they are pushing for the ability to arrest protesters outside the free speech zones as 'disrupters'. Where are you going to hold 500 disrupters? In a filthy holding pen at the docks? Or in a nice, clean facility specifically built for that purpose?

After being arrested, charged, fingerprinted, maybe even iris-scanned, then released, being picked up a second time as a 'disrupter' could mean that you are a habitual criminal, needing to be held longer than the previous 48 hours. Well, there's a camp in Wyoming just for you.

Yeah, it may be paranoid. But I'll tell you something. Those who are paranoid are never surprised. A few thousand German Jews were paranoid in the early thirties, and emigrated to the US. Hundreds of thousands who just couldn't believe it, died.

You just snuggle down and sleep tight. I'd rather keep my eyes open.

[file83]

48. NCevilDUer - your instincts are spot on.

This other "QuestionAll" character is the type that likes to think they are "above it all". It gives them the illusion that if they can deny the plans that are clearly visible all around us that it will just go away.

It's crystal clear that this person's overt and persistent "denial" of these facts by the obsessive need to post about it repeatedly shows that subconsciously they are battling with this cognitive dissonance (conflict of belief vs. facts). They have to keep telling themselves that it "isn't going to happen" and repeating it over and over to maintain "control" over what their natural instincts are telling them to do.

We are just trying to prevent these bastards in power from destroying our country - that's why we are shouting from the rooftops - to warn people of what is coming - "look at these prison camps!" But until they actually study history, until they actually educate themselves on the current events going on behind the scenes of the mainstream, they will deny the reason for it's existence at all.

Don't worry about people like that - they are a lost cause and will never listen. It's their own internal battle - not our problem.

[truth2power]

98. There are those who wil try to minimize the seriousness

of all this. Some just find it too frightening to contemplate, as you've said. Others may have different agendas. Who knows what motivates people? It's not worth wasting your time and energy.

[FreedomAngel82]

59. And don't forget that

in Germany they didn't know about what was happening because Hitler controlled the media. He made sure they didn't report on anything unless he said so.

[dysfunctional press]

77. you should see a doctor-

chronic insomnia can cause serious health/mental problems.

"...Those who are paranoid are never surprised..."

:eyes: sounds like a fantastic way to got through life...i choose not to, thank-you.

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Don't forget the RNC convention protest

They imprisoned protestors. Go to http://www.truthout.org and their multimedia section and scroll down to where you find the video about it and watch. They were in prison for two days for no reason.

[Uncle Joe]

39. I do not believe they will need the military for this,

they have created private mercenaries as in Blackwater. There is already an industry as in C.C.A. that profits from imprisonment of Americans, many from the "War On Drugs". It does not take much of a stretch of my imagination to see the neocons privatizing these camps.

Edit for P.S. This will allow them to shovel more money to their corporate cronies.

[file83]

45. So what are you going to do when you look out your front door

and see your neighbor's family being taken away in the back of a Military truck?

When you try and "protest", the Blackwater mercs will raise their weapons in your direction and order you to "Go back inside and shut your door, or else your family is next!"

Whatcha going to do then? Nothing.

[dysfunctional press]

61. paranoia- self-destroyah...

relax dude.

there are way too many neighbors in this country for 'blackwater mercs' :eyes: to... round them all up...? and to what end...?

seriously- what are some people thinking?

bartender- chill pills, all around...

[file83]

67. If you are so "unconcerned" about this topic...

then why are you even discussing it? What are you trying to prove to yourself? :shrug:

[dysfunctional press]

70. because it amazes me-

how many delusional paranoids there are running loose in this country.

[file83]

84. Excuse me? You are calling us "Delusional Paranoids"?

You said:

because it amazes me-how many delusional paranoids there are running loose in this country.

And your true colors finally shine through.

Gee, with the attitude that there are "so many delusional paranoids running loose in this country" (aka. political dissenters) - would you really be so against having them locked away in prison camps? No better place to put the dissenters!!

Stop trying act like you are "level headed" when it's obvious you are all in support for these prison camps. The gig is up.

[sarcasmo]

86. I guess myself and the other 20 people who kicked this are all

delusional paranoids. Just keep denying the truth and saying it doesn't exists when the articles stare you straight in the face, and FYI I do not loose any sleep what so ever. I know the truth and am not blinded like yourself. Here is a link to a Daily Kos article and feel free to email them and call them delusional as well.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/30/234854/651

[dysfunctional press]

90. if you say so-

just don't get me started on the 90+% that supposedly purport to believe in the existence of an omnipotent deity.

[sarcasmo]

93. As an Atheist I don't believe in the existence of a God either.

[The Onyx Key]

103. RIGHT ON, QA!! But I'm afraid your calm reasoning will fall on deaf ears.

Alarmism and paranoia based on speculation and loosely knit "facts" are called for here!

[file83]

111. How ironic. You are rooting for QA and the Chicago Cubs! LOL

Look at your avatar. You sure can pick winners! :rofl:

[The Onyx Key]

114. Ouch! Careful with that wit! It might cut through warm butter. n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

112. It amazes me that there are so many people that still trust....

...the NeoCon Junta.

How "delusional" does that make you?

[dysfunctional press]

151. not at all.

i never said i trusted the cabal- just that i don't fear in the least being spirited away in the midst of the dark of night by jack-booted neocon thugs to some domestic re-education/concentration/detention facility...that's a job for the paranoiacs

[file83]

66. self delete

[FreedomAngel82]

51. Private mercenaries like Blackwater

[dysfunctional press]

94. and just how many private mercenaries are there-

per average citizen...?

not NEARLY enough, i assure you.
weapons included.

[robertpaulsen]

107. Link please?

I appreciate your assurance, but I prefer facts.

[dysfunctional press]

108. umm...getting the numbers would be up to the one who's concerned-

i'm not.

[robertpaulsen]

113. Then why bother posting that you assure us there's not enough?

Without the facts, your assurance is meaningless. If you're not really concerned, but lack the facts to back up your assurance, you have no grounds to assure anyone.

[dysfunctional press]

126. omg...omFg...

i didn't realize that it was my job to assure the frightened parnoidiacs of anything- i would think that common sense would be enough to indicate that they obviously don't have the manpower to accomplish a lot of the things that some people in this thread seem to think that we're on a fast-track to.

apparently sense isn't as common as it once was.

consider me...self-assured.

[LiberalUprising]

139. Well I for one have read

enough of your BS, ignored

[robertpaulsen]

174. Make that two.

Funny how I simply asked for a link to the facts QuestionAll seems so self-assured about, yet after two responses he still has not provided one. Either he doesn't know what he's talking about because he refuses to do the research (ironic, considering his name is QuestionAll) or he knows the truth but is ashamed to admit he is wrong. In any case, he has proven that while his opinion may be common, it lacks sense. Without facts, he resorts to namecalling, a telltale sign that his common sense doesn't hold water. I'll join you gladly in ignoring him.

[bonito]

119. More than just blackwater

a link from the nation 9/21/05 http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/scahill
Also check out blackwater.com this the the only mercenary cite I've checked out so far, but it looks like its a big business, a private military with contracts with homeland security.
Met a fellow today and he said that cheney wanted to privatize the military years ago.
I'd like to find the scope of these mercenary's and the relationship with homeland security and fema. more
Blackwater is not alone. As business leaders and government officials talk openly of changing the demographics of what was one of the most culturally vibrant of America's cities, mercenaries from companies like DynCorp, Intercon, American Security Group, Blackhawk, Wackenhut and an Israeli company called Instinctive Shooting International (ISI) are fanning out to guard private businesses and homes, as well as government projects and institutions. Within two weeks of the hurricane, the number of private security companies registered in Louisiana jumped from 185 to 235. Some, like Blackwater, are under federal contract. Others have been hired by the wealthy elite, like F. Patrick Quinn III, who brought in private security to guard his $3 million private estate and his luxury hotels, which are under consideration for a lucrative federal contract to house FEMA workers.
Some info on dyncorp. http://www.conspiracydigest.com/dirtytricks.html

[dysfunctional press]

127. still not enough-

we'll be up to 300 million citizens by sometime this fall.

gonna take a lot of merc's...some of them might even have to work nights and weekends.

[bonito]

128. Right, I hear you

But only about 300 thousand on the watch list(s), for now.

[Usrename]

146. A question. Not rhetorical, a real question.

If Blackwater guys did show up and arrest you tonight for no reason, who would complain? More importantly, who would they complain to?

Just wondering if you have some kind of realistic answer.

[dysfunctional press]

150. my wife and family might have something to say about the matter-

and just why would "they" show up at my door for such a thing?

there aren't enough of "them" to show up at the doors of simply all the people registered to this forum. and this forum represents a miniscule portion of the anti-bush, anti-puke legions that exist in this country.

people here who fear being swept up in the middle of the night by jack-booted government thugs are delusional, plain and simple.

[Usrename]

162. I don't quite understand your answer.

Are you saying they would have to let you go once you told them your wife and family are upset.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Wonder why the NOLA detainees didn't think of that. They must be real idiots!

[dysfunctional press]

173. you asked me who would complain- i answered.

i think you don't quite understand your own question.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Why haven't any members of Congress spoken out about this?

:shrug:

[converted_democrat]

13. McKinney has on several different occasions... Most of the sources

weren't deemed suitable for DU, but if you call her office directly her staffers will confirm she's spoken out about it on more than one occasion..

[PATRICK]

10. Fifth columnists

in the past were all business and government insiders loyal to an invasive RW regime change. In the Stalinist era the use of spies and subversives was more low level, special goal oriented. Many of those people were self deceived and not ready fro prime time coups. Individual acts or imaginary acts or bad attitudes were enough to land the commie menace crowds real jail time and ruin. Only the idiots among the RW elite received legal payback for their crimes. The Bushes were the quintessential candidates for Fifth Columnists but then the strict definition would be appealed to, namely that the winning invasion never came so they were never actually all that revealed, you know.

I have written often about the constant constant use of the nazi slur terms by the GOP against all the groups the Nazis themselves(the RW) used to slur people in their own rise to power. By politeness or or other misguided noble desires no unflattering comparisons or physical connections were made to describe te Nazi sympathizers and possible Fifth Columnist traitors in our own midst, because what could be more unquestionably patriotic than our own RW?

Graham needs to be confined in a Fathead Farm on a steady diet or real history and genuine American values and shed some of those sulfurous rocks rattling around in that ill used brain.

[EFerrari]

12. Isn't that a snip from Graham's questioning of Torquemada

during the faux wire tapping hearing?

Because if it is, the rest of what he said was, warrantless wire taps could be used inappropriately on political opponents.

/typo

[sarcasmo]

15. If you saw in the article in mentions protesters being wire tapped and

IMHO that would also mean us dissenters her on D/U again I will say see you at the camps.

[EFerrari]

18. Oh, no doubt about that. I was just wondering why the cherrypicking

of the Graham quote because it was the one time I've ever heard him say something that lacked an underlying mendacity. lol

[MindPilot]

14. So they are go to round up and detain the "disloyal"?

To me that translates into liberals and progressives--us--the smart people. All those engineers, scientists, technicians, doctors, nurses, former military and lawyers together in one place will just coalesce into one giant brain. It would be the Great Escape and Hogan's Heroes times a million.

[sarcasmo]

16. Exactly, detain the dissenters at any cost when Martial Law is declared.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Perhaps you might remember that of the 83 escapees in

"The Great Escape" only three made to freedom. Sixty were killed. Twenty recaptured.

That doesn't exactly insire confidence.

[Critters2]

101. self delete

[Mind_your_head]

17. Civilian Inmate Labor Program - Army Regulation 210-35

I found this mentioned on another site. What do y'all make of this?

<snip>
Summary:
This regulation provides guidance for establishing and managing civilian inmate labor programs on Army installations. It provides guidance on establishing prison camps on Army installations.. ...
<snip>

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r210_35.pdf

I don't know how to copy/paste from a pdf file, so you'll have to click to read any more. There's also a section in there about how "media coverage" of these camps should be handled. (Noting which agency/reporter covers it, obtaining a clip/copy of the coverage, and reporting if the coverage is local, national, etc.)

[sarcasmo]

22. This probably needs another thread but here is a link on 210-35

Civilian Inmate Labor program about half way down. These folks are going to be bigger than the Nazis.


http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1561.cfm

[Mind_your_head]

26. Please feel free to start a new thread with this

I've got to get to work soon, so I won't be able to keep an eye on it if I start one now. Also, thanks for the link, I'll look at it tonight.

[quiet.american]

20. WTF are the "new programs" that might require detention camps?

And what kind of "influx of immigrants" would require putting people into detention camps in the so-called land of the free, home of the brave, give us your tired, your poor, etc.

The writing is on the wall, isn't it. Time to seriously have a "plan B."

[jberryhill]

149. Oh, I forgot... this didn't happen...

It boggles the mind how many people don't remember 1975...

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/refugeestoamericans.asp
In 1975, in the closing days of the Vietnam War, about 130,000 Vietnamese who were generally high-skilled and well-educated, and who feared reprisals for their close ties to Americans, were airlifted by the United States government to bases in the Philippines, Wake Island, and Guam. They were later transferred to refugee centers in California, Arkansas, Florida, and Pennsylvania for up to six months of education and cultural training to facilitate their assimilation into their new society.

Here's a picture of the airbase in Guam in 1975:


Do you see that? 130,000 sudden immigrants - housed on military bases and then refugee centers.

Gee... now I can't imagine what these facilities might be used for. I guess if we were involved in a foreign war somewhere, and thinking about pulling out, we might do some planning for the inevitable aftermath. But... nope... I can't think of any unpopular foreign wars we are fighting at the moment.

[quiet.american]

156. Ahem.

When you post something supposedly to enlighten someone, dripping sarcasm sure doesn't help make your case.

It boggles the mind, too, how some people think everyone was even born yet in 1975 to remember 1975.

[rman]

24. Any estimates on the total capacity of these camps?

Many have already been build, and now they're building more.

If they planned for half a million in '84, i'd guess there's room for a couple of million now.

[sarcasmo]

28. The article didn't really state a # but then we won't know until the

Detainment begins.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. Actually, we won't know until it ends.

Just as in Germany, everybody knew there were camps, but most had no idea how many camps, and few knew about the extermination camps.

The magnitude only came out after they were liberated.

[seabeyond]

32. perry had soemthing to say about how we could help with immigration

on news last night. husband asked, watch that or stewart. i said stewart....... the concentrations camps are set.... whether it is immigration or dems is yet to be seen. hailburton has the contract

first time i have said this out loud to anyone. to this point, no one could/would even kinda buy it. now is time. which reminds me,... i need to find out what perry wants us to do to help with the immmigration problem

[Joey Liberal]

38. Bush and the republicans are worse than Al Qaeda n.t.

[xynthee]

40. This article is absolutely terrifying!

It's very long (I'm not even finished with it yet), but it's one terrifying bit of information after another. It covers more than detention camps; it also covers PSYOPS and surveillance and other straight-from-1984 stuff. I'd heard about most of it already, but it's overwhelming to see all these sinister things in one article. :scared:

It's a must-read!

K & R

[Jara sang]

41. Who will do the rounding up? The National Guard?

They will be rounding up their mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters. They won't do it. Bush will have a revolt on his hands the size of which will make the American Revolution seem like a tea party.

[file83]

43. Here's one example of a "training op" that should give you a hint

of one of the countries that will help "round us up". It's a Windows Media Player file, hopefully you can watch it.
Associated Press coverage on Mexican Troops on US soil for the first time since 19th century during the Katrina aftermath.

In case you can't watch the video, read an article about it here:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1126177154283020.xml&coll=2

It was a highly symbolic journey marking the first time Mexico's military has aided its northern neighbor.

Yeah, I'll say it was "symbolic". I wonder what other kind of "aid" they will provide our Government the next time they need it.

[Codeblue]

49. Not if they're Repubs

If they come from Repub families then they won't have to round them up at all see. Only us, the people who didnt join the NG because we know what's good for us and our country will be getting rounded up. They won't have much of a problem with that at all. You think the Gestapo, S.S. or other German soldiers had much of a problem w\ rounding up millions of people?

[SmokingJacket]

79. Put all the pieces together, and an inevitable conclusion pops up...

Massive wiretapping? Detention centers built with "new programs" in mind? Adminstration conflating dissenters (like PETA and Quakers) with terrorists?

I'm getting a passport.

[Virginian]

80. I guess this means I get to find out what all of you look like.

See ya in camp.

Actually, I find this frightening. I think someone already attempted this in Europe a couple of generations ago. It didn't turn out very well for their detainees.

[LynnTheDem]

81. 'Scuse please! What does being CinC have to do with US CITIZENS???

What does being Commander in Chief have to do with US CITIZENS???

[roguevalley]

87. people need to find them and post pictures. i imagine they are old

army bases.

[leftstreet]

88. I WELCOME THE CAMPS!!!111111111111

It would be a tribute to the American spirit of ingenuity and fiscal conservatism to turn a paltry $385 million into the ability to house, feed and clothe 300 million people. Wait. It gets even better. By the time all the Crony Capitalist Privatizers get their cuts from this modest bullshit contractor deal - peel off $$$$ for yachts, McMansions, and greens fees in Dubai - you're probably looking at around $100 million for actual construction and "camp" maintenance costs.

Any private corporation that can house, feed and clothe 300 million people for 33 cents a head - well, that's OUTSTANDING!!!!!11111111

:eyes:

Here's a link to the actual BUSINESS story from KBR's website. There's nothing mysterious about it. The Bush Administration has been pushing the guestworker program. One of the key elements is ditching the current "catch and release" program. They want to catch and keep. To either re-route back home, or back to the corporation they'd like to see "own" them.

http://www.halliburton.com/default/main/halliburton/eng/news/source_files/news.jsp?newsurl=/default/main/halliburton/eng/news/source_files/press_release/2006/kbrnws_012406.html

KBR AWARDED U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY CONTINGENCY SUPPORT PROJECT FOR EMERGENCY SUPPORT SERVICES

ARLINGTON, Virginia – KBR announced today that its Government and Infrastructure division has been awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contract to support the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).

With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.

[Jose Diablo]

115. No, you misunderstand

It's profitable because value of the labor supplied is far far more than is used on keeping the inmates (slaves). Don't kid yourself, the Nazi's made billions off the people in the camps. Slavery is profitable provided that when the slaves wear out and become unprofitable, the slaves are then killed.

[leftstreet]

117. Bush/Baker cabal NOT Nazis - they're THIEVES

Big difference.

[bonito]

120. But when it comes down to it

It's your money or you life, we can see that.

[Jose Diablo]

122. That did not address the profitability issue of work camps

The camps are profitable, that cannot be denied. As for Bu$h being a Nazi, stick around, we are beginning see what he and the Republicans are really about.

[hack89]

123. In a consumer economy,

where most of the consumer goods are made overseas, how does locking up a bunch of consumers make economic sense? Just what are these camps going to produce?

[Jose Diablo]

125. Who said the inmates will be a consumers?

They will be low cost producers. Besides, it will only be 5-10M, there will be plenty of consumers left. If the country runs low on people, well there are people from all over the world that will jump at the chance to come here and consume.

With the military enforcing a tax on the world, call it the Fed printing dollars that must be used in international trade, it's a new colonialism.

And the ones consuming, they will love it and consume more.

Do you believe the rest of the USA will give one damn about those locked-up. Think again. They may be concerned, but will turn away rather than doing anything, after all, it ain't them.

You are caught-up thinking about an illusion that states Americans are super men/women. As with most people, a sizable portion of all populations are only brave, if they are told to be brave. If the are told to STFU and move along, that's exactly what they will do.

I know it's hard to stomach such a low opinion of people and many want to cry out and say, 'Jose, you are wrong'. Go ahead, I don't mind. But we will see.

[hack89]

129. And why do you think the military will go along with this?

Considering how many of them joined to escape poverty and belong to minority groups that reliably support Democrats, what makes you think that 1. they are ideologically aligned with the neocons.
2. they will imprison their families and friends.

Considering that there are many democrats in the military, I would imagine that this would trigger a mutiny.

[Jose Diablo]

131. In the beginning it won't be just rounding-up the political opponents

The first wave will be a response to some disaster, either man-made or natural. People will be forced evacuated to 'protect' them. Then once at the 'relocation' center, there will be 'special' screening by selected people. Some people will go one way, others another way.

And eventually, the ones that are OK, will be relocated to a nice place. The others, well they are doing all that can be done, but in meantime, here put this together.

It will all happen step by step and people will accept it.

As for the military, each person carries a set of ethics. The ethics a military person carries, will be noted and they will be assigned to where they fit best. Even preparing the military to enforce a dictator is not impossible. What is needed is to control the officer corp. An organized mutiny is impossible without officers. The grunts will do what they are told, or they will separated from the fold.

This is one reason our founders disliked 'professionals' in the military, like mercenaries. The founders wanted a civilian army, populated only as the nation was in dire needs. The last 50 years, we have seen involuntary servitude in the 50-70's to fight battles for the elite in far off countries. That strategy didn't work as the people and the basically civilian soldiers said no. Thus we saw a push beginning in the 70's to make the military professional. Sort of sounded good for recruitment, but was it right for the country? I say no because it made us ripe for an internal takeover by the first authoritarian executive that came along. And Bu$h/Cheney is it.

We were told we must be the worlds policemen, sort of like someone playing Superman in the comics.

Will the military mutiny? I say no, they will follow orders as all soldiers do. And of course, they will think they are doing the 'right' thing. For thats what their officers will tell them. And eventually, each of them will come to believe, it is right for them to imprison and kill whomever the government say to imprison and kill.

People are trained from the earliest age to obey 'authority'. It's natural for people to believe and place their trust in 'authority'. Ethics and morality are not born into a person, they are trained for what they do. Each child is like a blank sheet, ready to be trained into whatever culture exists.

But I digress, what you are asking is do I think the military will go along. Yes, they will. There may be some resistance, but taking over the military from within is not hard or impossible at all. Think of it like using the personnel department in a corporation to flush a corporation from one set of ethics to another by periodic 'force' reductions. It doesn't take that long at all and all the resistance from 'old' timers is gone, out the door.

Think about it like 'blooding' a animal. As conflicts occur, some men hate it, but some men, well they love it. It's hard to know whats inside people. Yes, the military will do what they are told to do.

[hack89]

134. I am a 20 year military veteran..

my father served for 23 and my brother for 4 - and I couldn't disagree with you more. You simply have no idea how the military works or what kind of men and woman serve in todays military.

[Jose Diablo]

136. So you are saying that if Bu$h puts on his crown

that you and the rest of the military will refuse to follow orders? That you will see that he is not following the Constitution that he and you also took an oath to protect. You are saying the military will in effect mutiny?

It's strange, but I expected it, based on what I have read from other posts by yourself, how you resist seeing 9/11 as an inside job. 20 years is a lot of investment. It makes sense. And to begin to see 9/11 as an inside job, if that were to happen and having taken an oath. I understand, but you can always say you are telling the truth that you don't see 9/11 as an inside. Who could say you don't.

But tell me this, which of the Amendments to the Constitution do you feel shouldn't be there? If the civilians that order the military at the top levels tell the military that the Constitution is just a piece of paper, do you think the military will refuse their orders?

I have often wondered what Robert E. Lee thought when he followed the secessionists, and violated his oath to the Constitution of the USA. Must have been very difficult for him, being an honorable man, to turn his back on his oath. I've thought that this was probably why he held back, and eventually lost, because of an 'internal' battle.

[hack89]

159. The Constitution is fine the way it is ...

and yes, the military will resist orders that are unconstitutional.

[Jose Diablo]

160. Yes, of course you are right, the current military would resist

Sorry, if I upset you by implying that you personally would do anything to harm us. Sometimes I think in the abstract and don't consider other peoples feelings when I speak.

Anyway, as the military is currently organized, for a dictator to completely subjugate the American people, that dictator would be unable to use the current military to accomplish the subjugation of the American people.

But what about this. Suppose a part of the military recruited large numbers of foreign nationals with the promise of citizenship from countries like El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Columbia, Argentina and Chili. Trained them and placed the new troops and officer corp in postings at these new camps, here in North America.

And placed the newly minted foreign officers under command of someone like 'death squad' Negroponte, I doubt these 'American' military people would have any qualms whatsoever in doing what Negroponte ordered.

Now to do this, the regular Army (Americans) would need to be placed someplace where they could not oppose the newer military. Say they are shipped off to a new war, Iran would work for this purpose I suppose.

Do you think the camps could then become 'functional'.

This is kinda how ancient China operated, to maintain internal stability. They would use recruits from one provence, to subjugate another provence and avoiding family member fighting other family member. In a way, using one group of common people to keep another group in check. It was sort of a empire rule, to never station a warrior into his home area.

Do you see how this could work to use the military against it's own people.

You may not remember this, but there was some news a ways back about this General in, Charleston I think it was, he was removed from his post. He was in charge of the training. He was told to expect and plan for a large influx of new boots from Central America, and train them. Rumor was he was upset about some of the orders, so out he went.

Strange huh?

Edit: In corporation speak, this would be called in-sourcing the military. And to the founders of our country, this is what they meant when speaking of mercenaries. Not so much current retirees hired for their skills learned as a member of the armed forces as contractors for a specific job. But rather foreign nationals used to subjugate a population, as versus using people that are actually home grown, so to speak.

[hack89]

164. And who will train this new army?

and why would congress fund it?

[Jose Diablo]

165. I'm glad you asked me this

I cannot remember his name, but the guy was a war hero, had all kinds of stuff on his chest. Anyway, last I read about him he was training some guys from some Central American toilet so they could be all that they could be. I think it was down there in Ft. Benning. School of the Americas or something like that. A guy like him would do it for the head honcho. After all, look at 41, the guy bails out on his crew members while panicking on a torpedo run during WWII, get awarded some medal for being a coward, ends up president. Whodathunkit. Is this country great or what? I guess it's true, anybody can end up president.

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of guys just like 41 that could head-up a training school to train the 'new' army.

As for money? You got to be kidding. The military cannot account for what is it $3T spent in the last 20 years. Thats a "T" as in trillion, you know, a 3 with 12 zero's, and somehow congress needs to approve the money?

This doesn't even consider the black budget and the money the 'company' brings in selling dope and guns.

No, money is not a problem, nor would finding the 'proper' people to train these mercs.

[leftstreet]

145. ...

:thumbsup:

[RaleighNCDUer]

170. There would be two wars going on -- the shooting war abroad

and the domestic war at home.

It wouldn't take long to figure who are the enthusiastic or compliant, and who are not. Those who are not get sent to the Eastern Front, those who are compliant get regular assignments, and those who are enthusiastic get to man the camps, get the Internal Security Police assignments and get to keep a close eye on the others.

Remember, 90% of the Wehrmacht were not Nazis. But 100% of the SS were. And 100% of the Gestapo.

The military would follow orders as long as they were not ordered to do something blatantly illegal. As long as the propaganda tells them they are spreading democracy, defending liberty, they'll round up foreign civilians, imprison them, even occasionally get carried away and commit minor atrocities, just as any military would, without becoming nazis. Just as they are doing today. But there are others who will gladly ignore their oaths and the constitution, like Colonel North and General Miller, who willingly commit crimes against those imprisoned civilians and bring that expertise home to use against our own civilians. Those in the military, particularly the officer corps, who object will find themselves far from home facing hostile fire, or cashiered out of the service.

I was raised as an military brat and was a Marine myself, and I know how many good people there are (or at least were 30 years ago), but I also know that the discipline and bureaucracy of the military can be used against the military in terrible ways if its leadership has an agenda other than defense of the country and constitution.

Consider also the rise of the "private security companies" and the moves to override the prohibition of use of federal troops for police duties (it's late, and my brain isn't coming up with the term) such as the recent move to put the military in charge if FEMA is unable to respond, and yes, I think there are reasonable grounds to worry.

[leftstreet]

141. There are NO "work camps" contracts

Did you not read the original statement issued about the $385M contract with KBR?

Here's a snip for ya

"With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005."

Gee. Why didn't they make these "work camps" five years ago when they had the contract?
:eyes:

http://www.halliburton.com/default/main/halliburton/eng/news/source_files/news.jsp?newsurl=/default/main/halliburton/eng/news/source_files/press_release/2006/kbrnws_012406.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

169. $385 million over five years seems pretty low for a major

construction on the scale that is supposed.

But it sounds about right for maintaining camps that have already been built. Maintaining, staffing, stocking, and wide-range patrols to keep civilians from just stumbling across them. $65 million/year, ten camps, 6.5 million/year each.

Yeah. That's about right.

[RaleighNCDUer]

133. You know what? The Nazis weren't nazis until '38. There were no

death camps until '42. The warmongering thieves of this administration are just like the warmongering thieves of 1935, when they were consolidating their power, testing their weapons in Spain and pounding on Fear Fear campaigns against Jews and communists for their people while undermining the power of the conservatives who put them in power.

Nobody, in 1935, would have believed in a Nazi party that would plunge the world into war, attempt to exterminate the Jews and murder hundreds of thousands of its own citizens just because they were communists, socialists, or trade-unionists.

No difference.

[leftstreet]

142. Yes, "Fear Fear campaigns" do seem to be everywhere.

Even at DU.

[Usrename]

161. Army Regulation 210–35 revised 14 January 2005

PDF Warning:http://www.apfn.org/apfn/prison_camps.pdf

I wish I didn't know the things you don't know. Just google Army Regulation 210–35 to avoid the PDF.

[spanone]

95. Bring It On.

:mad:

[dogindia]

99. K&R.

[Critters2]

102. Look on the bright side!

I'll get to meet you guys!! Still, "ad infinitum" is a long time to pay for dog boarding.

[Jose Diablo]

105. Public Works, Prison Camps

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00004125----000-.html

(a) The Attorney General may make available to the heads of the several departments the services of United States prisoners under terms, conditions, and rates mutually agreed upon, for constructing or repairing roads, clearing, maintaining and reforesting public lands, building levees, and constructing or repairing any other public ways or works financed wholly or in major part by funds appropriated by Congress.

(b) The Attorney General may establish, equip, and maintain camps upon sites selected by him elsewhere than upon Indian reservations, and designate such camps as places for confinement of persons convicted of an offense against the laws of the United States.

(c) The expenses of transferring and maintaining prisoners at such camps and of operating such camps shall be paid from the appropriation “Support of United States prisoners”, which may, in the discretion of the Attorney General, be reimbursed for such expenses.

(d) As part of the expense of operating such camps the Attorney General is authorized to provide for the payment to the inmates or their dependents such pecuniary earnings as he may deem proper, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe.

(e) All other laws of the United States relating to the imprisonment, transfer, control, discipline, escape, release of, or in any way affecting prisoners, shall apply to prisoners transferred to such camps.

This is the 'legal foundation to establish work camps.

https://134.11.61.26/CD4/Publications/DA/AR/ByPub.htm

This is the address of PDF for an Army Manual describing how the military has been instructed to deal with the provisions within the above act. Scroll down to AR 210-35 "Civilian Inmate Labor Program" and download the publication.

All this doesn't mean people will be 'rounded-up'. What it does mean is that IF a 'national emergency' should be declared, there is a legal foundation to use the military resources to imprison people.

Thus a suspension of the Constitution, say during a declaration of Martial Law, then the military is prepared to help the state put people in camps.

Edit: BTW 18 USC 4125 was placed on the books under Nixon in 1973. Does anybody have any doubts about what Nixon was planning before his butt was kicked out. Only problem was there was not enough 'infrastructure' or I would venture guess the rest of the government would have gone along. Believe me, a government that would assassinate a sitting president, a Democratic presidential candidt and a popular people leader, plus kill 58,000 of it's youth for profit would no qualms about setting-up concentration camps.

Don't think congress is the peoples friends, they are also agents of the government and derive their livlihood by being in congress.

[robertpaulsen]

106. What a surprise! Rumsfeld wants to SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET!

I thought the article was scary enough, then I got to this:

A secret Pentagon "Information Operations Roadmap," approved by Rumsfeld in October 2003, calls for "full spectrum" information operations and notes that "information intended for foreign audiences, including public diplomacy and PSYOP, increasingly is consumed by our domestic audience and vice versa."

snip

The Pentagon plan also includes a strategy for taking over the internet and controlling the flow of information, viewing the web as a potential military adversary. The "roadmap" speaks of "fighting the net," and implies that the internet is the equivalent of "an enemy weapons system."

In a speech on Feb. 17 to the Council on Foreign Relations, Rumsfeld elaborated on the administration's perception that the battle over information would be a crucial front in the War on Terror, or as Rumsfeld calls it, the Long War.

"Let there be no doubt, the longer it takes to put a strategic communication framework into place, the more we can be certain that the vacuum will be filled by the enemy and by news informers that most assuredly will not paint an accurate picture of what is actually taking place," Rumsfeld said.


So if this happens, what will happen to DUers? Off to the DUlag, I suppose.

[Rex]

109. Here comes the crackdown!

"But recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be considered helpful to the enemy."

If that were true, then Bush and all his crook friends would be in a camp somewhere because NO ONE has aided the 'enemy' more than this current WH crew!

Hey, who is that knocking on my door...

[mdmc]

118. k/r to add me to the list (perhaps DU posting is not enough)

Perhaps the camps won't be so bad. I bet they will be more like small "blue states" in a sea of red. Little blue states will no power, but many 'liberties'.

[Rex]

135. Roasting marshmellows over the fire barrel.

I call top bunk! :evilgrin:

[garybeck]

130. they're not new. just google "REX-84" n/t

[Doctor_J]

140. Probably shouldn't call it "Bush's New Program"

as we saw with this port debacle, he isn't informed about anything important that happens in the country. He mostly gets drunk, takes vacation, a makes a few scripted speeches when his folksy smirk is needed to diffuse a particularly unpalatable bit of news that leaked out.

[American liberal]

143. It appears that the noose is beginning to tighten. Next,

"they" will begin to restrict Internet(s) freedoms, the last remaining link to our First Amendment rights. Once the midterm elections are stolen, the real crackdown will begin. Dissent (like posts here on DU) will NOT be tolerated.

This shit is pretty scary! What do we do now?

[radio4progressives]

167. maybe we need a real underground?

anyone else thinking along these lines these days? :scared:

[dogday]

176. Fifth Column movements

Seems like I have heard this term used in a lot of movies about the future and World Government....