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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:06 PM
Original message
Can freepers be deprogrammed?
I've read articles about people who have joined cults. In many cases, their parents hired someone to "kidnap" them and then put them through a regimen to "deprogram" them.

I personally believe that freepers, as well as all other types of Bush zombies, comprise a cult. They are programmed (brainwashed) to absorb, digest and repeat any piece of wingnut propaganda being fed to them.

So I'm asking psychiatrists, psychologists and the well-informed out there, is it possible to deprogram these people?
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. The problem is they are uneducated.
Therefore, there's nothing to deprogram. They are just trying to hang on to their own ignorance and for some reason want to drag everyone else down with them.
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rkc3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. What about cattle prods?
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. too cruel.
They'd cry like babies.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. First you have to pry their heads out of their asses.
then teach them the concept of coherent thought without injecting the word Clinton into each sentence.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Did anyone call you a freeper?
Hang around long enough to learn that "freeper" refers to a sub-cult of Bush worshippers. They're not just supporters, they worship him and cling to the belief that he can do NO wrong. As you can see, they are not terribly welcome here.

Thirteen posts ... hmmmm. If you ARE a freeper, it will come out soon enough. If you're not, then welcome to DU.

Bake
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I get mixed messages about the term's meaning
I've seen it used for Freerepublic users (duh), for particular brands of right-wing loons, etc. I usually try to keep my use of the term specifically to FR users, but okay.

I've also seen it used around here to describe any vaguely not-left-wing point of view, people who voice uncomfortable (and still politically inert) opinions, or anyone with low post counts (I was directly accused of being one because of my post count the day I started posting here).

So yeah; I still don't know exactly which the term refers to, but I've seen it used pretty widely and can see why people will trip up over the use of the term.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. I reserve it for the far-right kool-aid drinkers
Such as those who frequent that "other" web site. I agree it is sometimes misused here.

Bake
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
47. Freeper = person who is temporarily annoying the poster
I wouldn't take it too seriously. It can have all the meanings you've stated plus more.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. How do we know you don't call Dems names?
This is the internets. You have to admit to have some screws loose if you voted for Bush twice.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. And still counts himself as "a * supporter," no less.





:popcorn:
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Which the basic DU forum rules forbid.
But yeah.

I like that nosepicking smilie. :rofl:
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Welcome to DU!
Yeah, you know, I try to be nice to the newbies and all that. But when you come in and say "I am a Bush supporter", I don't expect the mods to keep you around long.

So welcome and all that. Enjoy your stay.
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Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. bush voters are all human garbage
that's not an insult. it's just a fact.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
43. Yikes, no person is garbage!
Wow. That's really frightening, to think that someone here believes they are good enough to decide that another human being is garbage.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. why did you vote for him twice?
No name calling yet, just want to know why...
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. And you're here to have some "talks" with us now?
You voted for Bush twice and you still support him. Hope you have a thick skin if you're going to hang out here.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. Well, that's an encouraging attitude and all
But it does beg the question: why are you here?

If you're here to discuss politics in a rational manner, then welcome. If you're here to disrupt, you won't be staying long.

But when you start a conversation with 'I am a Bush supporter'-especially after everything he has done in the last 5 years-then people here will wonder why you are here.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
52. Still, the thread title is
about whether people are able to change their minds about Bush. And sure, people can change their minds - it happens all the time. Arianna Huffington, David Brock, & the steady decline in Bush's approval numbers show that. But sometimes you need to learn things first. If someone has been indoctrinated into believing something by their family or religion, it's very difficult to go against that. And many Republicans have this view of Bush as a strong, Christian family man & don't know much else. Seems like the first step is just letting someone learn, pointing out what isn't true, giving facts, getting people to think. People will change their minds on their own. If this poster wants to discuss & learn, it seems like that's the first step to really changing their opinions. (As distinguished from "trolling," of course.)
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. What attracted you to the Democratic Underground?
Usually it's a place for like-minded people to gather and post about the Democratic Party, Democrats, what we view the GOP and republicans doing to democracy, and the 'true believers' who are spoon-fed GOP talking points.

What made you decide to come here? :shrug:
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Err, they *are* still human beings, you know
What you're asking is whether it's possible for someone to change their mind on an issue. Of course it is. I'm sure there's plenty of people on this site who used to be diehard Republicans, and I'm equally sure there's plenty of people over at FR who were Democrats for awhile. Worldviews are mutable; it happens.

As tempting as it is to write off a hundred million-someodd Americans as cultists or beyond redemption, they are real live individuals with minds and the like, not automatons or hive nodes. Not exactly on the right side as far as worldviews go, obviously, but as with most flawed worldviews that can usually be addressed non-forcefully. Besides, it's not like there's a shortage of people on our side of the spectrum who've been enjoying the crack pipe.

Seriously, though. I understand what you're getting at, but you're also kinda skirting the edges of dehumanizing a very large group of people, and that just ain't cool no matter who the target is.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Go read a couple of "Pray for President Bush" threads
The people at FReakRepublic are flat out nuts. There used to be some sane ones, but they got driven out or quit in disgust. Not to mention the yearly purges. They continually refine their craziness by not allowing any dissent.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Nuts? Yes. Irreperably, inhuman, beyond all hope? No. (n/t)
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Liquid_Cooled Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Let's be fair,
"They continually refine their craziness by not allowing any dissent."

A freeper that comes here to cause troubles is immediately kicked off and that's reasonable, but a person who comes here who doesn't qualify as a "Freeper" but does say something supportive about Bush, usually gets booted as well....

Doesn't this qualify as "not allowing dissent?"

I mostly,, support Bush, but lately, not so much. I wouldn't like to not be booted, but I understand I may. I would rather discuss and learn than be told and kicked.

(hopefully, a useful addition)
LC
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. To be fair
This is a message board for Democrats. This is our 'home'. Freeps don't allow dissent ANYWHERE. They believe dissent is treasonous.

A wee bit of difference there.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Kicking is considerably different here
Disruption gets the kick. RimJob simply announces that you may not speak against the war, or you are gone. You may not support McCain or you are gone. If you read the threads here, people dissent all the time. There are Kerry lovers and Kerry haters. FReeperville doesn't allow that.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh, and welcome to DU
I was a republican a LONG time ago. Reagan cured me. I hope you enjoy yourself here, and I doubt you will be booted.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. "Reagan cured me" - hee
If that isn't praising with faint damn, I don't know what is. ;)
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Simple question for you:
Do you approve of Bush's performance as President? That's a simple, yes-or-no question. And if you are a single-issue voter (e.g., abortion), try not to limit your response to that single issue. As important as that single issue may be to you, look at other issues: Iraq, national security, the economy, domestic spying, the environment, etc.

IF you think he's doing a bang-up job as President, odds are you won't be around here long. Although I'd be interested to hear exactly WHY you think he's doing a great job, if in fact you do think so.

Bake
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Liquid_Cooled Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. That isn't yes or no.
Do I approve of his performance? I sit on the fence. Do I like some of the things he has done? Yes. Do I hate some of the things he has done? Yes. Overall, not clear cut.

Do I think there is global warming? Yes.
Do I think we contribute to it? Yes
Do I think that the Earth will die? No, we may, but not the Earth.
Do I like guns? Yes, they have a place in our society as it is now.
Do I want abortion? Yes and no. There are lines. Safety is important, convenience, no.
Border security? He's doing a horrible job.
War? Not as I would handle it.
Universal Health care? Until I see it work well, not yet.
Welfare? Everyone needs a hand now and then.
Domestic spying? No way,
International spying? At times.

Am I cut and dry? I don't believe so. I can see where some far one direction would push me the other way, and vice versa.

Will I be here long? I am what I am and I guess it's not up to me. Would I like to be? Sure, it's nice to post rather than just read.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Why did you choose the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND to post?
There are so many places where moderate conservatives who voted for George Bush can interact. Why would you choose a place that is for Democratic minded people unless you wanted to stir up a mess? Do you have that much free time?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I Can't Say You Won't Be Booted, But I Can Say You Have Earned My Respect
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 07:48 PM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
Regardless that we may not be on the same side of the fence politically (though I stand with you on most of your list, oddly enough), I find your tone and ability to post intellectually quite impressive, even if I could give you a million reasons why I think you're wrong.

The fact is, in the end, this board is for liberals, progressives and the like and conservatives are booted not just due to refusal to allow dissent, but because this community gets enough of their side shoved in our faces each day. This is where we can come to exclusively have our say, our strategies, our internal frustrations, etc...

But I must say, of all those that have admitted that they aren't democrats or left-wing minded, you are one of the most refreshing I've come across.

Course, that's only 2 posts I'm casting opinion from and I hope you don't turn into a typical disruptor forcing me to eat my words. But if you keep up this tone, I actually would not complain if you were to stay. Since you've shown signs of intellectual capacity, it means in my opinion you have the capability of seeing truth. If you do, and if you are here long enough, I believe before long you will understand and begin to agree with our points of view.

Welcome.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Shades of gray can be good things
Sometimes I'd rather things be black and white, but I'm sure most of us hold that kinda view at times. I usually start to worry if I find myself feeling more absolutist about more than a couple of my personal hot-button issues at any one time, though I also (mostly) understand that my list of said issues will be different from other peoples'. (For instance, abortion or guns aren't one of them, but I can understand why they would be for some people.)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and respect people who can take a complex and nuanced take on the world, even if I don't agree with them on the particulars. If you're gonna hang around, keep your nose clean and your hide thick, though. ;)
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Others here may make nice, but you get no respect from me
thanks for nothing
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. Hope you can stay
There's a lot to learn here. And maybe you'll become "deprogrammed," who knows? :)
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
51. You don't sound like a modern Republican.
You sound like a Democrat or an old-fashioned paelo-conservative.

Welcome to DU. Keep an open mind. True, there are some outlandish conspiracy theories floating around, but, there are also those that are so in-your-face, you can't deny them.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
56. Yes, it IS that simple.
Overall, do you approve. "On the fence" doesn't count. Especially with this pResident, who is so extreme that only someone with his/her head in the sand (or up his/her ass) can straddle the fence.

So I repeat: OVERALL, do you approve of Bush's performance as President?

It's as simple as that.

Bake
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Newbies would be best off reading the DU rules.
The rules aren't hard to find.

Here, I'll cut and paste an important one: "If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned."
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
58. That's an important rule
But FWIW, this noob doesn't seem to think "overall GWB is doing a swell job."

If he's a genuine fence-sitter, I say stick around a bit.
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smb Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
57. Huh?
They continually refine their craziness by not allowing any dissent.

Say what? Every time I peek in there for laughs, there's at least a half-dozen faction brawls going on. They may all be nuts, but they're mixed nuts. :crazy:
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
44. Well Then... Human Beings Can Handle This thread
Sorry, but freeps are brainwashed... the sad part is they don't even know it, nor have the strength to look at themselves. If they did, they'd have a mental breakdown.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
54. Good post.
:applause:
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. LSD might work for some...
I can see them now....

Holy shit man!....We're all made of the same stuff....Oh, my God, everything is so beautiful!......It's all so....so... connected....this is amazing.....I love you man!

The problem with this remedy is the folks who need it the most are too chickenshit to try it. :hippie:
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Ariana Celeste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. Damned right man
I was concerned about the world before I tried acid, but not nearly enough. Really opened my mind. There's more out there than meets the eye. {sigh}
:hi:
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Strangely enough
It may only work if it was done with religion.
Lock them up and deprive them of sleep and make them read the bible where Jesus speaks over and over and challenge them to refute what Jesus says.
And unfortunately for them Jesus speaks against just abut everything that they believe in now, so I guess what I am saying is only Jesus could do it.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. It Doesn't Matter Right Now At All. Leave Em Be.
Fact is, real freepers probably only make up 25-30% of the electorate. We don't need them. If we are to put effort into spreading truth and awareness to those that do not yet know it is wise to first work on the 20 to 25 percent of the electorate (and about 30% additional non-registered) that don't need to be deprogrammed, but just need to be informed. Those are the ones that can tip the balance of power towards us, and they are the ones that can be swayed.

We get them, we succeed. We don't ever need the 25-30% of the registered braindead nazi lockstepping toothless cousin-marrying parrot talking freeper bushbots to see things are way. We just need the 40-50% of the population that can be swayed but need to be informed, pushed to vote and enlightened to the true values of the democratic way.
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Yes, it's possible
I'm a former one myself. And yes, I used to post on that site even (not often).
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
29. A small percentage can, but most of them can not.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
35. Many turn into Libertarians... which seems worse.
Libertarians talk of freedom... but anyone with half a brain knows that we need money to essentially survive. Therefore we are slaves to money and that is the contrary TO freedom.
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. I could recommend some medication: Lamotrigine.
It's a mood stabilizer. I also recommend group therapy.

Worked for me!
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. that would be no fun
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 05:03 PM by formercia
we wouldn't have them to beat up on any more. If I want to be like everybody else, might as well be a Republican....
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think it would take reprogramming on the scale that
Zaphod Beeblebrox suggested the Starship Heart of Gold's computer should undertake . . .
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. Well isn't that odd?
Years ago, we used to hear about families who had a family member that got mixed up into religious cults, and how these families would get "deprogrammers" to deprogram what these religious nut cults had brainwashed their family members with.

We stopped hearing stories about this at about the same time that the Right Wing Nuts started gaining power in the government. Of course, these Right Wing Nuts finally achieved their complete power grab of the government, after years of harassing and smearing Bill Clinton and any Democrat that got in their way.

So, does anyone believe their is a relationship with this?

Did what cult "deprogrammers" do years ago, hit too close to exposing what the Right Wing Nuts have pulled off on a percentage of the population?
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. Probably need to legalize brain transplants...
Which won't happen, so NO!
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. crow bar, sledge hammer, medieval flanged mace, broad sword
brick bats, large rocks, etc.

...about the only way to get through their thin skin and thick skulls...
:evilgrin:

...forgot to addd those clever sticky-pokies the Swiss used in the 15th century, they might be effective...

...oh, and the ultimate: the Pan-Galatic Gargle-blaster which would deprogram anything...
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. By the Star Ship Enterprise or an Exorcism or a UAE takeover of US Ports
3 is the winner.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
50. Ex. David Brock--anyone can be deprogrammed. n/t
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Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'd Settle For Neutered
:think:
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