None of the 9/11 Commission staffers "believed Cheney's version of events"

[Rose Siding]

snip>
... Around 9:35 on the morning of 9/11, Cheney was lifted off his feet by the Secret Service and hustled into the White House bunker. Cheney testified to the 9/11 Commission that he spoke with President Bush before giving an order to shoot down a hijacked civilian airliner that appeared headed toward Washington. (The plane was United Flight 93, which crashed in a Pennsylvania field after a brave revolt by the passengers.) But a source close to the commission, who declined to be identified revealing sensitive information, says that none of the staffers who worked on this aspect of the investigation believed Cheney's version of events.

A draft of the report conveyed their skepticism. But when top White House officials, including chief of staff Andy Card and the then White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, reviewed the draft, they became extremely agitated. After a prolonged battle, the report was toned down. The factual narrative, closely read, offers no evidence that Cheney sought initial authorization from the president. The point is not a small one. Legally, Cheney was required to get permission from his commander in chief, who was traveling (but reachable) at the time. If the public ever found out that Cheney gave the order on his own, it would have strongly fed the view that he was the real power behind the throne.

on the last page
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11436302/site/newsweek/

[CrazyOrangeCat]

1. Kick this up. n/t

[Rageneau]

41. This Newsweak Story Pulls Punches On Cheney

This story admits that Cheney was taking Ciprio when many folks couldn't get it. Then Newsweak acknowledges that (at the time) the story was "hushed up."

What the story DOESN'T say is that Newsweak itself was part of the hush-up. We bloggers knew about the Ciprio deal (I certainly did) way back when it was happening, but the MSM said not one word. And the story nevers says who was involved in this "hush-up," who instigated it, who went along with it. IOW, Newsweak pulled its punch.

This story also takes it very easy (covers up for) Big Dick when it describes his hunting. It DOESN'T say that the quail Cheney was killing up to 70 a day of were farm-raised and not wild. To point out that fact would be at least as damaging to Cheney's reputation as admitting he was ordering planes shot down without consulting Smirk. So they pulled that punch, too.

Newsweak told SOME of the truth in this story, and yet it deliberately did not tell the whole relevant truth in several instances.

So despite revealing several important, not-previously-admitted-to facts, this big expose is in many ways just more GOP damage control and MSM spin.

[petgoat]

73. It makes one significant stealth punch IMHO

See post #66


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=465438&mesg_id=472628

[maddezmom]

2. stuff we've known and believed all along...getting additional press

because of the shooting, IMO. good find. :hi:

[The Straight Story]

3. My Understanding of this is that the VP had those powers granted

to him in June of that year (ie, to shoot down a plane). There is a pdf on a government site I once found detailing this. Will see if I can dig it up.

[CJCRANE]

9. AFAIK those powers were granted to Sec Def not VP.nt

[LunaC]

13. It was Rumsfeld - not Cheney - here's the link

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing7/for_the_record_ashley.pdf

Cited in PNAC 101

[acmavm]

4. Cheney's little hunting accident may actually do damage to him that

are in ways unrelated to a shotgun or defenseless quail at all.

Seems like more and more people are facing the facts and willing to print them. He is a most dangerous and criminal man.

[Stephanie]

8. it was an emblematic and revealing event

a simple event that people could wrap their minds around and put themselves in his place. and I guarantee you there is not a good, honest man in this country who would have reacted the way Cheney did to this accident. there is not a good honest man alive who would not have been rushing to the hospital alongside his friend. not one who wouldn't have stepped forward immediately to take responsibility rather than blaming it on the man he shot. his behavior was completely dishonorable and disingenuous and everyone can see it. it's common sense.

[mom cat]

23. " Shoot before you look"! He hasn't changed.

[C_U_L8R]

5. This is BS

There's no way the SS could lift Cheney off his feet....
maybe if they used a handtruck or a forklift

:-)

[Blue Belle]

61. It would take at least 3 Secret Service men to do it.

:+

[Career Prole]

6. Proud to be #5 on this one. Excellent find. n/t

[joemurphy]

7. Cheney's a "take charge guy" and Bush was busy reading

"My Pet Goat" to a bunch of kids. Shooting down a planeful of Americans
is something a guy like Cheney would relish. It would show him to be the standup Neocon he is -- always ready to make those "hard decisions" so necessary for the protection of America's well-being.

It's all doublethink Orwellian horseshit anyway. I don't believe any of
it anymore.

Cheney's testimony to the 911 Commission was not under oath, BTW. Wonder why?

[jasmeel]

12. Why can't there be a rule that ALL testimony in front of congress

be under oath. It's ridiculous that it's not.

[shance]

36. If we fight enough and take our government back, then there will be.

It's up to us as citizens.

[Art_from_Ark]

43. Actually, the kids were reading "The Pet Goat" to bu$h

He just grabbed a book and started following along, after being told of the second attack.

[ktlyon]

45. they were read it to him, you know can't read

Also that plane was shoot down, maybe this is why they made up that story. Cheney didn't have authority. Rumsfeld was outside watching the Pentagon burn, by his own admission. The taking over the plane by passengers also kept everyone talking about that.

I don't believe them on anything either.

[mopinko]

10. why is the left always right. jeez.

liars all.

[Catrina]

39. The left is always right and the right is always left blaming somene else

their crimes.

I believe Cheney probably couldn't wait to order the shooting down of a plane full of Americans ~

When 9/11 first happened, it would have been unthinkable to believe that such a decision would not have bothered any American, even Cheney. Now, after watching their blatant disregard for life, not only in Iraq, but here during Katrina, and in their budget cuts, especially Medicaid (which will kill many of the poor who get sick. They boasted about how the co-pay would save money because sick, poor people would 'forego treatment' since they would not be able to aford the co-pay') I can imagine Cheney relishing the role of being in charge of that tragic episode.

I have no doubt now that letting 9/11 happen, or making it happen, is not at all inconceivable anymore. That thought would not have entered my mind four years ago ~ but we've seen them not only excuse and defend torture and the bombing of cities with total disregard for civilians, both in Iraq and in Afghanistan, but plan it and then, when the perpetrators, Gonzalez, Sanchez et al, are caught, they are promoted ~ nothing they do would shock me anymore.

[file83]

11. If the will of the 9/11 Commission can be bent on this point - how many

other "facts" did they "tone down"?!? This just goes to prove once again, that the "conclusions" of the 9/11 Commission are completely and utterly unreliable. How many times do us 9/11 researchers have to scream that to the world until they get it through their heads that we are NOT a bunch of "conspiracy nuts"? :shrug:

[Raster]

14. The 9/11 commission was a farce and its "report" a work of fiction.

I say again, why would the Executive Branch of the US Government work OVERTIME to obscure and inhibit the investigation and its findings. This, in and of itself, flies in the face of all logic. Why?

[ClintonTyree]

44. The old, "well, if you don't have anything to hide".....

should apply here, shouldn't it? It seems this administration hides everything, they want no oversight of their operations whatsoever. Why? Using the neo-con logic that they apply to everyone else, they must be hiding something. Hell, they're hiding everything. They don't want the light of day shining on anything they do. This gang of criminals must be brought to justice, but it's not going to happen if the Media (Newsweek) keeps writing puff-pieces :puffpiece: like this.

Oh, the poor tortured soul of Dick Cheney. :eyes: Give me a fucking break! :mad:

[dysfunctional press]

15. UA 93

WAS shot down.

[PittPoliSci]

33. BUT BUT THEY MADE THAT TV MOVIE!

[ColonelTom]

47. I wonder how much of the $1.6B in PR money went to that? nt

[Blue Belle]

62. That was aired on FX (a division of FOX).

The same people who brought you the bullshit movie about the Hussicane/jacked up oil prices where Bush's strong leadership saves us in the end. :eyes:

[wordpix]

49. first I ever heard of it---link please?

[petgoat]

65. Here's a place to get started

http://www.flight93crash.com/

Take a look at the book "True Lies" for some independent journalism on flight 93. It also features an
interview with a Baltimore newspaperman (sorry, I forget his name) who was one of the few independent
9/11 researchers in the MSM.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/articles/article.php?id=717

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452285313/qid=1140460527/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-0715416-6612908?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[dysfunctional press]

78. i'll look for the links- it's been awhile...

and i've changed computors twice since the 9/11 days...but i remember a newspaper story from new england, in which air traffic controllers said that f-16's were all over flight 93.

[dysfunctional press]

79. Update- the link has been scrubbed...BUT-

http://www.flight93crash.com/

talks about the article in the nashua telegraph, but the link to the page comes back as saying that it is no longer available(surprise, surprise...)

[Virginia Dare]

57. I've always believed that as well...right from day one (9/12).

If anyone can ever get to the bottom of why it was and why it was then covered up--then the riddle of 9/11 may be solved. At first I thought perhaps to protect the A.F. pilot who did it, now I'm not so sure, it may be something far more nefarious.

[CamanoCal]

69. I tend to agree with you

On 911 there were about 50 people inside the flight and crew dispatch HQ of American Airlines which is located in the Bedford area of the DFW Metroplex. They tell stories of what they heard. They were (purportedly) instructed to shut up and never say a word about what transpired.
Word has it that the Pennsylvania flight was shot down. How would they know?
Each of those aircraft had SELCAL (Private air-to-air communications between the planes and the ground). Here's the $20 question: Can SELCAL be remotely activated from the ground? (I'll bet it can).
They claim our heroes successfully commandeered the plane, notified the FAA/airlines and THEN were shot down.

Where the hell is/was an investigative reporter in the Dallas area?

[deminks]

16. K&R nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. Notice Cheney did nothing about the attack until 9:35 AM!

Until 9:35 AM Cheney stood around his office watching the attack on TV and did nothing to stop the attack or to prevent further loss of life.

Whether or not someone even ordered Flight 93 shot down is a minor issue compared to the fact that, Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld all knew the attack was in progress at the latest when the first tower was hit and they all did nothing until after the Pentagon was hit. Once again, THEY FAILED TO LEAD ON PURPOSE and they allowed Americans to die so that they could have their Pearl Harbor event.


Here's a thread I posted about Cheney & 9-11 last week.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=447143

[Laelth]

18. Of course.

This is the best evidence of MIHOP we have, that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld didn't immediately go into hiding. They would have if they were truly in danger. They didn't, it seems, because they knew they weren't in danger. And how could they know that?

And why would Cheney order Flight 93 shot down? Because the plan went awry, most likely, when the brave passengers on board took over the plane. The cabal could not allow any survivors to tell the tale.

:tinfoilhat: (tinfoil or no, I'm pretty convinced of this theory at this point)

-Laelth

[davekriss]

59. Don't forget General Meyers in your litany...

...of leadership that appear to have purposely stood down on 9-11. Meyers, after hearing about the first jet plowing in to the WTC -- and surely the man responsible for the military security of the United States was aware of the August 6 PDB -- after hearing of the first strike went into a long casual meeting in then Senator Max Cleland's office and did not reappear until the third jet hit the Pentagon.

General Meyers couldn't put one-and-one together? Why didn't he immediately move to stations? Why didn't anyone think this attack on the United States warranted interrupting Meyers from his coffee and donuts with Cleland?

Clearly, IMO, a purposeful stand down of leadership.

[Coexist]

19. why is this story only rated two stars??

I thought it was very good.

[Mr_Spock]

20. Just one more despicable act from Deadeye Dick - the Neoconazi

I hate Dick Cheney more than anyone else in the maladministration at this time...

[mwb970]

21. Every problem in America right now traces back to Cheney.

It's obvious why the country is "on the wrong track". It's because every whim of the Dick's immediately happens (or doesn't happen, depending).

Bush obviously has no control over Cheney, kind of the way my goldfish has no control over me.

[bklyncowgirl]

22. According to Clarke Mr. & Mrs. Cheney were fighting over the remote

She wanted to watch it on TV. Cheney cut off the feed to the situation room. Clarke called and asked who the idiot was who kept cutting off the people who were trying to respond to the crisis and someone (a secret service agent?) said "that would be the vice president, sir."

I believe Clarke a whole hell of alot more than I believe Cheney.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. What they're really trying to hide is the shooting down of Flight 93.

[upi402]

26. maybe so...

hmmm

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ktlyon]

46. the first report I heard was it was a truck bomb at the Pentagon

I saw a picture while the Pentagon was still burning, no airplane and a large truck axel in the foreground.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

48. Yes, those silly half-witted arabs.

We all know dark-skinned people are too dumb to do anything right. Sheesh, dude.

[Virginia Dare]

56. I don't for a minute believe any of the official 9/11 story, however

I do personally know several people who witnessed a plane fly into the Pentagon. Whether that actually did the real damage or not, I'm a skeptic.

[MadMaddie]

58. Good points Brothaman2k..

Welcome to DU:hi:

[wordpix]

50. where's the link?

[upi402]

25. The way the WH lies it taints the truth of the BRAVE PASSENGERS

story. The WH lies put EVERYTHING in question. What if it was shot down and they made a heroic tale of it to cover a tragic shoot down in a terrorist event that they may have let happen?

[Dr. Jones]

52. That's exactly what I thought.

If this was MIHOP, which I suspect it was, I can see that. Every great story needs a hero. Whip up the emotion, get the patriotism going. Not saying it happened this way, but hey - with these guys, anything is possible. Remember "Let's Roll?" That was the phrase that basically kicked off the Iraq war. And injected a massive amount of patriotism into this country.

[redacted]

27. K&N

[Disturbed]

29. Darth Cheney has always been in charge.

Shrub is a pathetic Sock Puppet. Impeachment of both of these criminals is a requirement of Congress.

[mousie]

28. kicking

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Domitan]

31. I want the fucking American public to absorb this completely

It's sickening enough to see that a majority of the Americans are willing to let go of the Cheney shooting story after his contrived and forced statement to FoxTV, but it'd be downright worse if they also ignored this damning article. Ironically, it's the MSM who's making a more concerted effort to put the spotlight on Cheney's power hunger and duplicity after treating Bush with kid gloves for the most part over the past years.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Miss Chybil]

34. The fact he chose himself to be VP gives away the fact he is the real

power behind the throne.

[Timefortruth]

35. Man the ratings have been freeped nt

[FreedomAngel82]

38. IHOP people

If they lie about Iraq why would they tell the truth about 9/11? Remember they had to be pushed into a commission in the first place by the victims family members! And they didn't go under oath and the only way Bush was going to talk was if Cheney was there.

[Vyan]

40. Calm Down Everyone...

I can believe that the 9-11 Commission didn't believe Cheney, who the hell does - but the problem is you don't have to believe him. Richard Clark covered this issue on page 8 of his book "Against all Enemies" where he details the exact sequence of events of 9-11 from the perspecive of the White House Situation Room.

Clark on the phone with his White House Fellow, Major Mike Fenzel, who was with Vice-President Cheney in the White House Bunker (aka PEOC).

"Air Force One is getting ready to take off , with some press still on board. He'll divert to an air base. Fighter escort is authorized. And..." he paused. "The the Pentagon they have authority from the President to shoot down hostile aircraft, repeat they have authority to shoot down hostile aircraft."

"Roger that." I was amazed at the speed of the decisions coming from Cheney and, through him from Bush.

Now the request for this authority had originally come from Franklin Miller, Clarkes collegue and Special Assistant to the President on Defense Affairs, - through Clarke to Fenzel, the Vice-President, to the President and back again. Clarke informed the Pentagon through the video conference center in the Sit Room.

The person you have to believe isn't just Cheney, it's Clarke and more importantly Fenzel who acted as the conduit to the Veep and POTUS. Even if many people don't believe Cheney (again, I don't blame them), there's plenty of reason to believe and trust Clarke and those he put his confidence in (Fenzel).

The unfortunate thing is that the CAP (Combat Air Patrol) which they eventually established for Washington wasn't advised that they were looking for a U.S. Aircraft and were instead out of position over the ocean in anticipation of a cruise missle or bomber attack.

Vyan

[drm604]

42. That quote doesn't prove anything.

I have no idea what the truth is here, but I don't see how that quote proves anything one way or the other. All it says is that Fenzel told Clarke that the authority came from the president. The fact that Fenzel said it, doesn't make it true. He could have been lying or, more likely, unwittingly passing on lies that he had been told.

Notice the last sentence of your quote:

I was amazed at the speed of the decisions coming from Cheney and, through him from Bush.

So apparently Clarke had reason to believe that all of the president's decisions were passed through Cheney. Where is the evidence that Cheney actually had talked to the president? He may simply have been claiming to pass on Bush's decisions while in reality making those decisions himself.

Those staffers obviously had some reason for not believing Cheney's version of events; and remember, every single one them had doubts.

[father_of_hope]

51. are they still spreading this lie?

that flight 93 'crashed in a Pennsylvania field after a brave revolt by the passengers'?

Cheney had that plane shot down. How would you explain the engines found miles from the crash site? Heat-seeking missiles, anyone?

Cheney is the most vile mass-murderer ever since, well, his own Commander-in-THIEF.

[veracity]

53. Cheney - the Smoking Gun...

Cheney was in charge of drills on the morning of 9/11 - simulating attacks on the WTC. This is NOT theory, it's substantiated fact. When Cynthia McKinney asked Cheney about it at a meeting last year, he said he would not discuss this for 'security' reasons.

Come on.

Cheney is the Smoking Gun in all that has happened... including the war.

This is not new and it's not conspiratorial.....

It's just NEVER discussed - and is being softballed even now.

For starters: http://tvnewslies.org/html/cheney_s_secrets.html

[Blue Belle]

63. Cheney seems to use his "Security Reasons" excuse a lot...

I wish I had a teflon excuse that shielded me from having to answer tough questions.

[NightOwwl]

54. He's power-mad and he's not going to let anyone stand in his way.

The man is feeling cornered right now...America should be very, very worried.

:scared:

[Sperk]

55. what a coincidence....none of us (or almost) believe the 9/11

commission's version of events.

[bush_is_wacko]

60. Long article but the details of it should be broadcast on every

nightly news station in this nation.

I guess this is a :rant: but I am so sick of reading this information and not hearing it repeated over and over again in mainstream media!

My freaking parents have no idea how corrupt this administration is and I am pretty secure in the knowledge that way too many Americans are just as ignorant as they are. Oh sure, they realize there is something amiss but in their eyes it is no more disturbing than any other presidential term.

When I read statements like this:

"Uneasy about the administration's disregard for the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which requires court warrants to eavesdrop on communications into the United States, three Republicans on the Senate intelligence committee were agitating for greater oversight. Cheney, who has been the most aggressive defender of the administration's power to wage war (including spying) without congressional approval, went up to the Hill to quell the rebellion. For several hours on Tuesday, he met behind closed doors in the intelligence committee's secret hearing room with the senators. Two days later intelligence committee chairman Pat Roberts, a staunch Bush ally, was able to put off a vote on whether to open an investigation."



I gotta wonder WHY the heck our congressmen are backing down from this issue! Government is NOT supposed to work this way. Congress is SUPPOSED to hold our executive branch accountable! Don't Americans realize this?

[Woody Box]

64. It was NOT UA 93 to be shot down, it was the FIFTH PLANE

The shootdown order was issued after the "crash" of UA 93. It referred to a "phantom flight". Here's an excerpt from the 911 Commission Report, p. 58 (note the highlighted passage):

At 10:02, the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports fromthe Secret Service of an inbound aircraft--presumably hijacked--heading toward Washington. That aircraft was United 93.The Secret Service was getting this information directly from the FAA. The FAA may have been tracking the progress of United 93 on a display that showed its projected path to Washington, not its actual radar return. Thus, the Secret Service was relying on projections and was not aware the plane was already down in Pennsylvania. 217

At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft.218 His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President. The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes.219

At the conference room table was White House Deputy Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten. Bolten watched the exchanges and, after what he called "a quiet moment," suggested that the Vice President get in touch with the President and confirm the engage order. Bolten told us he wanted to make sure the President was told that the Vice President had executed the order. He said he had not heard any prior discussion on the subject with the President.220

The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary.

This mysterious phantom plane is in all probability identical to the "fifth plane" that was reported in the morning of 9/11 by all broadcast stations, but vanished quickly from the news.

For more background info, read The Secret Hijacking

[CamanoCal]

67. American Airlines DFW HQ says different

On 911 there were about 50 people inside the flight and crew dispatch headquarters of American Airlines located in the Bedford area of the DFW Metroplex.

They tell stories of what they heard. They were (purportedly) instructed to shut up and never say a word about what transpired.

Word has it that the Pennsylvania flight was shot down. How would they know?
Each of those aircraft had SELCAL (Private air-to-air communications between the planes and the ground). Here's the $20 question: Can SELCAL be remotely activated from the ground? (I'll bet it can).

They claim our heroes successfully commandeered the plane, notified the FAA/airlines and THEN were shot down.

Where the hell is/was an investigative reporter in the Dallas area?

[petgoat]

66. A Significant Detail in the Newsweek Account

Note they say that Cheney was hustled into the bunker at 9:35.

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, Cheney did not arrive at the
bunker until 9:58 (see p. 40).

Cheney's arrival time at the bunker is a matter of some consequence.
Norm Mineta testified that he saw Cheney at the bunker at 9:20 and
witnessed a conversation that he interpreted as concerning the approach
of flight 77 to DC and a shoot-down order.

Cheney told "Meet the Press" on September 16, 2001 that he was hustled
down to the bunker after a report from the Secret Service that flight
77 was headed toward the White House, and that he arrived there before
flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/525111/posts

The 9/11 Commission Report apparently concludes that Cheney was confused,
and Mineta doesn't know how to read a clock. It says (p. 40) that
Cheney didn't get there until 9:58--too late to order 77 shot down, and
too late to be expected to shoot down 93.

http://www.911truthmovement.org/dear_secretary_mineta.html

Newsweek's "compromise" time of 9:35 may be a shot across the bows of
the official story of 9/11. Coming from the MSM, this would be just
HUGH!1!1!1!1 I'm completely series!1!1!1!1

[Woody Box]

70. Mineta is 1 hour wrong

Replace his "9:20" by "10:20", replace "flight 77" by "phantom flight 93", and Mineta's account is in complete accordance with the 9/11 Commission Report (see my post #64).

[petgoat]

72. Okay, interesting idea. Then why doesn't Mineta set the

record straight?

But even if Mineta is wrong, both Cheney (and, I believe, Clarke) say Cheney
got to the bunker before 9:37.

Given that the 9/11 Commission apparently made up the story about phantom flight
11 (to explain why fighters were scrambled but failed to intercept 77), given
that the Commission's motivation for claiming Cheney's late arrival at the bunker
appears to be to protect him from accusations that he ordered 93 shot down, and
given the possibility that the reports of the phantom flight might be due to war
game artifacts, and given Mineta's failure to recant, I have a hard time giving the
Commission more credibility than Mineta.

[Woody Box]

76. The Commission ommits and distorts, but it doesn't lie

Compare Mineta's account

There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out, "the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?

with page 58 of the CR:

At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft.218 His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President.The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes.
...
At approximately 10:30, the shelter started receiving reports of anotherhijacked plane, this time only 5 to 10 miles out. Believing they had only a minute or two, the Vice President again communicated the authorization to "engage or "take out" the aircraft.

To me it looks like these accounts refer to the same scene.

[petgoat]

77. "The Commission omits and distorts, but it doesn't lie"

I agree that they appear to be the same event, but given the considerations in post 72
and the fact that the Commission's version contradicts Cheney's account of 9/16/01 (1)
I am inclined to consider Mineta's testimony more credible.

1. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/525111/posts

Dr. David Ray Griffin does nor agree that they don't lie. He lists 115 omissions
and lies (39 lies, 76 omissions).

http://ny911truth.org/articles/571-page_lie-DRG.htm

[Woody Box]

84. There are far more hints that the shootdown order was meant for "UA 93"

Please read the chapters "UA 93 and the shootdown order" and "Transmission of the Authorization from the White House to the Pilots" of the 911 CR.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

I have already quoted the first one, so here's a quote from the second section:

Repeatedly between 10:14 and 10:19, a lieutenant colonel at the White House relayed to the NMCC that the Vice President had confirmed fighters were cleared to engage inbound aircraft if they could verify that the aircraft was hijacked.227

The commander of NORAD, General Ralph Eberhart, was en route to the NORAD operations center in Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado, when the shootdown order was communicated on the air threat conference call. He told us that by the time he arrived, the order had already been passed down NORAD's chain of command.228

It is not clear how the shootdown order was communicated within NORAD. But we know that at 10:31, General Larry Arnold instructed his staff to broadcast the following over a NORAD instant messaging system: "10:31 Vice president has cleared to us to intercept tracks of interest and shoot them down if they do not respond per ."229 t

Now look at this remarkable section:

The NEADS commander told us he did not pass along the order because he was unaware of its ramifications. Both the mission commander and the senior weapons director indicated they did not pass the order to the fighters circling Washington and New York because they were unsure how the pilots would, or should, proceed with this guidance. In short, while leaders in Washington believed that the fighters above them had been instructed to "take out" hostile aircraft, the only orders actually conveyed to the pilots were to "ID type and tail."231

Do you realize what's going on here? The NEADS commanders SABOTAGE the shootdown order of the Vice President!

The Commission quotes from NEADS files and interviews with NEADS personnel. I don't think they're inventing the whole story. So I still prefer the version by far that Cheney arrived at the PEOC at 9:58.

Also, FLight 77 was (allegedly) off radar until it was near DC airspace. How could it have been spotted by anyone?

[petgoat]

86. Good find on note 231!

But I'm still skeptical about the 9CR's implication that Mineta was mixed up about the time.

Check out the authority for the 9CR assertions that the "80 miles out; 60 miles out"
conversation took place after ten. It's all from Scooter Libby notes, Lynn Cheney notes,
White House notes, and Cheney and Bush's "meeting" (presumably that means their unsworn
testimony before the Commission).

I find it much easier to believe that those four are lying than that Cheney was mistaken
when he told Meet the Press that he got to the bunker before 77 hit the Pentagon, and that
Norm Mineta was wrong about when he got there, and that Richard Clarke's corroborating
info is wrong.

I don't see how Cheney could be that confused, or why Mineta would lie. But I can see clearly
why Libby, Lynn Cheney, Dick Cheney, and W would lie.

[Road Scholar]

68. kick!

[Woody Box]

71. Recommended Reading: "Flight 93" survived the Pennsylvania crash

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x22038

This is the mysterious phantom flight 93 causing Cheney to issue the shoot down order.

[SoCalDem]

74. and yet, they allowed him to be "unsworn-in"

Idiots..

[dogday]

75. Good Cheney did not swear in, huh?

Good for Cheney, bad for this country. We can't ask a criminal to tell the truth, and being under oath to this administration is a big joke....

[republicansarewhores]

80. I think this is a situation where Cheney told "half the truth" to cover up

What actually happened... because the debris spread of that flight looks like it was shot out of the sky, not like it crashed.

Cheney ordered the jet shot down.

Then he says he asked the president for permission but it crashed before he got a hold of the president.

Makes him sound like he did the noble and honorable thing, when the truth is this murderous bastard probably DID have it shot down since it looked like it was headed for the White House.

Kind of like how his story changes regarding his shooting spree with Harry Whittington. First there were no drinks served, then he says he had ONE beer, and cocktails afterwards to potentially muddy any investigation into how drunk he really was with the pluasible deniability that they could not get an accurate Blood Alcohol Level since he drank as well after the incident and all we have is his "word" to go by.

His word isn't worth the toilet paper he craps it on.



RAW

[petgoat]

81. "shot down since it looked like it was headed for the White House"

The White House was known to be defended by Surface-to-Air missiles.
And Bush's dawdling in that Florida schoolroom suggests that the Secret Service
knew he wasn't going to be a target, so shouldn't they have known Cheney wouldn't
either?

Dr. Griffin suggests that the reason it was shot down was because the passengers
had regained control of the cockpit, and two of them were capable of flying the
plane. He cites a three minute gap at the end of the tape, and wind sounds,
and reports from passengers of smoke in the plane.

http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/141355.php

[WinkyDink]

82. How does one know that a plane in PA is headed for the WH?

Clairvoyance?

[petgoat]

83. Just a guess from the heading.

They'd struck prominent buildings. I'd guess the WH, the Capitol, and CIA HQ at Langley
would be considered possible targets. Look at the map--there really isn't much else in
there to hit. It's Blair Witch country. Some suggest they were headed for Camp David.

[Woody Box]

85. Flight plan DCA?

Remember the reports that Flight 93 changed its flight plan to DCA (Reagan Airport) at about 9:56? That's how they knew.