poking holes in the Whittington story

[gWbush is Mabus]

...pun intended.

1. we think that the distance was 30 yards
2. we think that 100 of 300 pellets entered Whittington's face, neck and chest
3. Cheney turned around and shot Whittington who was standing behind him

Question 1:
Is it even possible for 1/3 of the pellets to enter a person at 30 yards, given that they disperse more and more at greater distances, even if he was DIRECTLY aiming right at him?

Question 2:
For Whittington to be shot at 30 yards/ 90 feet, Cheney must have been aiming exactly parallel to the ground, for even a slight angle of incline would be above a man's head at that distance (given that 1/3 of pellets entered Whittington), correct? Would someone aim parallel to the ground if they were shooting at quail?

Possible Conclusion:
there is no way "30 yard" was the distance. Maybe Cheney shot him at point blank range?
perhaps, it wasn't even an "accident"?

food for thought

[mwb970]

1. The story we are getting is clearly false and incomplete.

Kind of like the 9/11 myth we are all supposed to believe.

[Wickerman]

2. see this analysis by Sellitman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x410189

brilliant work and telling. Certainly can't use the "peppered" excuse any longer, huh?

[shain from kane]

11. Bottom line: who would want to eat a quail shot at 30 yards?

If a person is "peppered" at thirty yards to the point that he is hit with, assume 100 pellets. Now, superimpose an image of a quail on the sprayed area. How many pellets would hit the quail target? Would there be anything left? It would take forever to clean the shot from the bird. It wouldn't be too pleasant to eat, since you would be spitting pellets that you encountered in that small piece of meat throughout the meal. That's some good eating. The answer seems to me, not a hunter, that the man had to be closer than 30 yards.

[Wickerman]

12. good point!

a very simple explanation that makes tremendous sense. :toast:

[endarkenment]

3. If Cheney was not firing in the air - he broke another bird hunting rule.

Q. What kind of asshat turns into his hunting party with his gun at head/chest level?

A. An experienced hunter would only do this if his decision capacity was impaired.

[JDPriestly]

4. Maybe Cheney was shooting straight ahead

Maybe he wasn't aiming at the quail, but just shooting straight ahead and then planning to lift his rifle up and shoot over and over. With that method, he would pepper the area with gunshot and accidentally hit something. A five year old could bag 70 quail in a short period with that method. You wouldn't have to look at what you were shooting. You would just shoot over and over and randomly hit stuff. Obviously, I don't hunt. He would have to pause between shots and he would waste a lot of ammunition. In addition, it would be tiring. But he would willy nilly hit lots of birds without much skill. Bird hunters. Is this theory plausible at all?

[ET Awful]

7. Maybe he was using one of those magazine fed USAS-12

semi-auto shotguns :P

[Silverhair]

10. NO, Your theory is not plausible. NT

[chelsea0011]

5. Heard the AM on Bill Press show a caller and hunter uses 28 gauge

shotgun all the time and says there is no way 200 pellets would lodge themselves in someone at 30 yards. More like 30 feet. And to your second point, it seems to my untrained eye that Cheney likes to shoot when the birds just leave the ground.

[mwb970]

8. Shooting low birds is bad form.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11350071/

On the Web site of The Charlotte Observer, Scott Denham, an avid hunter and shooting instructor, commented: “One of the cardinal rules of any bird hunt: Don't shoot low birds. Why? It is more difficult to see birds against the ground than against the sky. ... This happened when Vice President Cheney shot his partner on Saturday evening.

Denham continued: “Cheney's hunting party broke several basic rules: too many in the hunt party; no dog, or at least not having the dog retrieve a downed bird ... shooting at a low bird and not being aware of the placement of his hunting party members.”

[Silverhair]

14. We don't know how many pellets are in Whittington. NT

[bryant69]

6. Persoonally I think Cheney was testing his gun

He wanted to see how the pellets spread, and forgetting himself for a moment, decided that shooting a nearby elderly man would give him the perfect spread. Unfortunately the humans he is forced to work with started freaking out after he tested his gun, so he had to pretend it was an accident. For now.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. Actually, the number of pellets in a 28g birdshot shell is about 200....

...and that makes the math even worse, IMHO. That's at least 50% of the pellets hitting the target...primarily the mid- to upper-left torso, the left side of the neck, and the left side of the head.

Cheney was clse enough for one of the pellets to go through Whittington's clothing, his skin, the underlying musculature, his ribcage, and lodge on or in his heart.

How close? 10 yards? 15 yards? Closer than 10 yards?

Was drinking involved?

Why did it take nearly 24 hours for the shooting to be reported to the authorities?

Lots of questions...and the answers aren't good enough.

[Silverhair]

13. Take off the tinfoil hat and learn something about hunting and guns.

Is it even possible for 1/3 of the pellets to enter a person at 30 yards,..

Yes. If Cheney's shotgun had a full choke, as is common for quail guns to have, almost all the pellets would still fit inside a 30 inch circle at 30 yards.

Would someone aim parallel to the ground if they were shooting at quail?

When a quail flies, it sometimes goes high, other times flies low and parallel to the ground. It goes one way just as often as the other. Quail almost always land after a short flight. So shooting at a quail with the shotgun parallel to the ground is common.

There is no reason to believe that this is deliberate. That is just plain silly. It was stupid accident because Cheney did not obey hunting safety rules. And he is not attempting to take responsibility for it either.

[shain from kane]

15. Back to my earlier reply. If you put a target of a quail in that

30 inch circle at 30 yards, how many pellets would hit within the target? I suppose hunters do it all the time, but could you possibly clean and eat the quail? Or is the posted limit so high, since it is assumed that the hunter would have to discard the most severely damaged quail as inedible?

[Silverhair]

16. Quail are rather small. Some simple math can give you the answer.

A 30" circle has 708 square inches. With 275 pellets in a load, that means that most of the square inches will NOT have a strike. A quail covers about 5 to 10 square inches, depending on his angle to you. It is entirely possible to be right on target and still miss the quail at 30 yards. Usually, the quail will get hit by about two pellets.

I have never seen a quail disgarded because of severe damage. In fact, I have never seen one severely damaged. And I grew up hunting on a ranch in south Texas not far from where Cheney hunted.

[JHB]

17. Some calculations in the comments to Paul Begala's column at TPM...

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/26663

...figure he may have been as close as 15 feet (and definitely closer to 30 feet than 30 yards) -- so he wasn't "peppered", he was shot.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

18. maybe there is more than one victim

ss agent injured more seriously?

whatever happened, it had to be something more stupid than the original story.