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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:51 AM
Original message
MSNBC reporting up to 20 Congressmen involved in Abramoff scandal
On their early morning news show this AM, they reported the number could go as high as 20 and that this could be the largest scandal in several decades. My question is: who was investigating Abramoff and who did he make a deal with? Was it the Bush Justice Dept? If so, how many Democrats will be represented in the 20 Congressmen? Will it be a "bi-partisan" scandal?
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. This Will Be Fun
n/t
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
77. no kidding. What a great evening to relax and say, I told ya so!
Ahhh.
democracy actually might have a chance.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. I don't care who it is, democrat or repuke
I want the garbage taken out

but I am very skeptical that anything will happen. They will protect each other

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. firstly i hope we take the time to listen and research if it is
just a donation. or if it is a bought vote. there is a difference. the 20 to be named. i heard 11 of them dems. friday i think they talked about 11 of them dems. sounds to me that has become a democrat crisis and not repug. i suggest it might be a rove plant to nullify the illegal behavior of repug. of course it depends on the information we receive, but it seems the repug line has been equal opportunity donor. this is both repug and dem. but from what i understand, how htey are able to point at dem is donation they have recieved from abramoff tribes. this isnt wrong. this isnt something ot point finger at. it depends on what happened when money was given. it is like saying clinton spied too. no it isnt the same.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Good points to ponder...
And something we should all be aware of..
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. You are correct.
Dem donations are directly linked to the tribes. Repub donations are directly linked to Abramoff. Repub donations also include gifts such as luxurious cruises and et cetera. No Dems, to my knowledge, got such "goodies."
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
53. yes, you are absolutely right
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
69. Or turn on each other. The slightest threat makes cowards roll over.
They aren't exactly known for their intestinal fortitude, these criminals. The BugMan controlled them with fear. Fear of prison will control them soon enough. They'll roll all over each other.

:popcorn:
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. Names, I want names
Dammit I hope our scumbag nazi congressman is in there.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
59. Mine too!
When will the names come out?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. This could potentially alter the balance of power in the House n/t
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Wouldn't that be a fun ride :) /nt
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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. i hope your right Walt...n/t
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. About damned time n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:54 AM
Original message
Splains why the House isn't in session now and they are rerunning
WJ's morning programs, even though they are scheduled to be in session. I bet there are 20 congresspeople meeting with attorneys now and the rest are "in conference" trying to figure out how to do the CYA. Yup, absence of a quorum, okay.
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
15. The House is recessed until Jan 31 to help DeLay
He's trying to get the charges dropped before they return to session so he can keep his job as Whip.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I knew that at some point. Thanks for the reminder.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
43. house typically convenes late in election years
There's nothing particularly surprising about the late date for Congress to convene. While Jan 31 is a bit later than usual, Congress typically convenes in late January in election years. In 2004 it was Jan 20. In 2002 it was Jan 23. And in 2000 it was Jan. 24. The added week may well have to do with Delay, but it probably has nothing to do with Abramoff

onenote
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. I heard on CSPAN there is a pro forma session today--
probably to clean up on that little bit of theater re: the Patriot Act. Remember John Warner was the whole Senate before the break and kicked that ugly little demon seed back to the House. Expect it to rubberstamp something today.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Yep, the Senate is in pro forma today and then out until Jan 18
I don't believe the House is planning to convene until 1/31.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. House is gavelling in now.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. thanks didn't realize they were convening at this time
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. There will be a few Dems
but overwhelmingly a majority of Republicans. I gotta say that if Joe Lieberman or former Congress Critters like Zell get wrapped up in it, that's fine with me.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. IIRC, someone here mentioned at least two dems involved...
but I don't remember which two.
certainly, if there are any, they will not escape justice, even if some or all republicans do.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. One was one of the Kennedys, I think.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. from a Washington Compost article last June
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 11:19 AM by peekaloo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

p.s. seems most didn't come from Jackie Boy himself but from representatives.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
64. "Washington Compost"
:rofl:
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ask yourself: how many Democrats have you heard this
Republican-led justice department name since the beginning of the Abramoff scandal?

Abramoff himself never gave personal money to Democrats, only republicans. the groups he lobbied for were encouraged to give primarily to republicans, but the clients did donate to some democrats...all groups donate to both parties, you need to see who got the lions share of the loot. you'll see it is republicans by a shit-load of cash.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:56 AM
Original message
I think CNN? or MSNBC? said up to 60 could be implicated.
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 10:57 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
Which ever network it was, they were implying that it hit both sides of the aisle. I don't believe that as there have been posts here showing that Abramoff only gave to GOP.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. Abramoff himself didn't give to any Democrats, but
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 11:02 AM by Walt Starr
groups he represented gave to both.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
50. If it has to be any Democrat I hope Lieberman got some cash
and then we can replace him with a real Democrat.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. Me too!!!!!!! eom
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. I love the smell of fitzmas in the mourning.
even though he wasn't involved in this stuff.

I do have one worry. Given the behavior of Justice under Gonzales, (civil rights division castrated, tobac litigation destroyed from above and more) can we actually expect them to act on this?
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Lindsay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. Over at Atrios's place, they've been trying to come up with
a name for this one.

Abramogeddon has been my fav so far.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
70. casinogate? FixiRep? NeyPalmGate?
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. Clean the House! Sweep it out!!
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. All REPUBLICANS! Ha ha ha ha!
Abramoff gave no money to Dems.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
57. Didn't Byron Dorgan and Harry Reid receive contributions
from Abramoff's Tribal clients? They both returned the money when they found it was connected to Abramoff and his scandal? Or not? I KNOW Dorgan returned monies. I thought I read that Harry Reid had too?


From DailyKos:
<snip>New evidence is emerging that the top Democrat on the Senate committee currently investigating Jack Abramoff got political money arranged by the lobbyist back in 2002 shortly after the lawmaker took action favorable to Abramoff's tribal clients.<snip> The whole story at link.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/29/141942/00
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
78. Ironic Thought of the Day:
The Congress won't be able to impeach the President in 2006 because of the absence of a quorum. All the Republicans are going to wind up in the slammer.

:D

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. *cough* Independent Counsel *cough*
Excuse me
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. Defeat them all
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sweetm2475 Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hey congresscritters, all buckled up???
ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!SEE YA!!!!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
20. MSNBC is planning on playing it down always happens when they start high
they end low. Letting the air out slowly.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. it's time to clean House
I don't care what party they belong to, if they did something wrong then they need to suffer the consequences. With this many Congresspeople involved, I highly doubt they are all republican.
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. Here's a scorecard of the scandal
Don't know how accurate it is tho

http://tinyurl.com/crw7w
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Woo hoo --- lookit Indiana !!!
A bunch of slimy mofo's if there ever was one!!


Indiana Rep. Dan Burton


Gov. Mitch Daniels


Thomas Sharp, INDOT Commissioner


Jim Kittle, GOP state chairman


Rep. Chris Chocola
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. We'll get those damn blunts anyway
but, I just know that nazi mfer graves took the money as well. I get the feeling it just hasn't been uncovered yet.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
24. See this very important post in GDP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2346437

Abramoff Plea May Mask a Larger Crime: GOP Foreign Influence Peddling


It appears that a plea agreement has been reached between the Bush Justice Department and attorneys representing GOP fundraiser Jack Abramoff. This reportedly promises to implicate some 20 Congressmen in a elaborate scheme to funnel slush fund money syphoned from Indian tribes to favored lawmakers. However, there is another side to the Abramoff influence-peddling operation that the Indian tribes lobbying fraud probe does not touch, and which major papers, such as The Washington Post, have virtually ignored.

That is the money that Abramoff and fellow GOP fixer, Grover Norquist,have syphoned from Islamic banks and groups known to have financial ties to terrorist organizations, including al-Qaeda. This is the bigger crime of illegal foreign influence over the Bush Administration and GOP lawmakers that FBI whistleblower Sybil Edmonds has tried to expose despite a federal gag order based in the rarely invoked State Secrets exemption. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/31/161... ; http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0714/dailyUpdate.html

Unless Democrats and other concerned Americans raise their voices and call for a full inquiry into illegal foreign influence over the US political process and elections, the details of this story just are not going to be made public. We should oppose any plea agreement in the Abramoff case that does not put foreign money into the spotlight.

On that point, there was a very significant piece of background information in yesterday's Raw Story report, which notes that the Greenberg Traurig (GT) law firm, which hosted Abramoff's lobbying shop, was previously convicted of knowingly accepting illegal foreign campaign contributions. A German paid the largest fine to date for that offense after a foreign-source contribution went through a GT lobbyist. Under Federal Election Commission laws, foreign individuals and companies are barred from contributing to American political campaigns and parties. http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Firm_knew_of_Abramoffs_re...

This raises a question: are we ever going to hear more about how Jack Abramoff and Grover Norquist funneled money to the GOP from Islamic banks and fees from groups tied to terrorist finance? See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/2/15814/29480

According to reports published in The Hill, a respected Washington political newsletter, Jack Abramoff and Grover Norquist continued to lobby after 9/11 on behalf of Islamic banks and groups that had been accused of financing terrorist groups. We must now ask, is that side of the Republican influence-peddling scheme ever going to be revealed in court documents, or is this going to get buried as part of Jack's plea agreement with the Bush Justice Department? See, www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/17/122311/72 ; www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/13/91057/126

Rawstory ran an article yesterday reporting that the law firm was aware of his unlawful practices months before The Washington Post first reported on them in 2004. Greenberg Traurig claims it had no knowledge of Abramoff's wrongdoing until it was revealed in The Post. According to RawStory:

Before he was a pariah, Abramoff was Greenberg Traurig's poster boy.

SNIP

With Abramoff, Greenberg Traurig did even better than they had hoped. The firm's lobbying receipts leapt fourfold, from $3 million in 2000, to $16 million in 2001. At the peak in 2003, the firm grossed $26 million on lobbying alone.

The scandal hounding Abramoff isn't the first the firm has faced. In 1998, the Federal Election Commission levied a $77,000 fine against Greenberg for knowing soliciting illegal contributions from foreign national. The fine given the German developer in the case, $323,000, was the largest of its kind ever assessed by the FEC.

Reporting in national media, including The Washington Post which has been covering the Abramoff story closely, have virtually ignored foreign sources of fees and funding collected by Abramoff and his various shell companies, money which if it were commingled with Jack's political contributions to the Republican Party would be a violation of federal law.

According to SourceWatch, GT has been involved in other political fundraising and election scandals: http://www.sourcewatch.org /...

Bush-Greenberg Traurig Connections
The following enumerations were published (http://portland.indymedia.org /...) in September 2004 by, among others, the Portland Indymedia. Some sources have been provided in support.

1. "Represented President George W. Bush in the Bush-Gore 2000 Florida election vote recount."

"Court's reputation being tested," (http://quest.cjonline.com /...) Associated Press (cjonline.com), December 11, 2000: "Barry Richard, a partner in the firm, is the lead Bush attorney in Florida. Richard, who is a Democrat, said he was called Nov. 8 about representing Bush." re Barry S. Richard
"Ethics experts say Scalia, Thomas connections not conflicts of interest," (http://archives.cnn.com /...) CNN, December 12, 2000: See "Justice Scalia's sons": "Another Bush lawyer, Barry S. Richard, is a partner in that firm's Tallahassee office."
"Florida Attorneys for Bush and Gore to Debate 2000 Presidential Election Recount," (http://clasnews.clas.ufl.edu /...) University of Florida, College of Liberal Arts & Sciences, March 25, 2003: "Barry Richard, chief Florida attorney for Bush ... an attorney of Greenberg Traurig law firm in Tallahassee,..."
"Greenberg Traurig Instrumental in Florida Vote Recount Victory," (http://www.gtlaw.com /...) GTLaw.com, January 13, 2004.
2. "Personally represents Florida Governor Jeb Bush."

"Governor Bush Appoints Raquel A. Rodriguez to Serve As General Counsel," (http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us /...) My Florida, November 25, 2002. re Raquel A. Rodriguez
"Gov. Bush names Greenberg Traurig lawyer general counsel," (http://www.bizjournals.com /...) South Florida BizJournal, November 25, 2002.
"Hayden Dempsey Joins Greenberg Traurig LLP," (http://www.gtlaw.com /...) GTlaw.com, December 23, 2003. re Hayden R. Dempsey
Profile: Hayden R. Dempsey (http://www.rnla.org /...), Republican National Lawyers Association.
Profile: Justin Sayfie (http://www.pmbconsulting.com /...), Poole McKinley & Blosser website. re Justin J. Sayfie.
Bush Donor Profile: Justin J. Sayfie: here (http://www.tpj.org /...) and here (http://www.whitehouseforsale.org /...), Texans for Public Justice.
3. "Hired son of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on election day 2000--after which Justice Scalia cast one of the 5 to 4 deciding votes which placed Bush in presidency." re John F. Scalia

"Court's reputation being tested," (http://quest.cjonline.com /...) Associated Press (cjonline.com), December 11, 2000: "John Scalia accepted a position with the Miami-based firm Greenberg Traurig on Nov. 7, election day."
"Ethics experts say Scalia, Thomas connections not conflicts of interest," (http://archives.cnn.com /...) CNN, December 12, 2000. See "Justice Scalia's sons": "John Scalia, 35, has accepted a job offer with the Washington office of Greenberg Traurig. Another Bush lawyer, Barry S. Richard, is a partner in that firm's Tallahassee office. ... John Scalia won't actually join the Greenberg, Traurig firm until sometime next year, according to partner Joe Reeder, who said the job was offered weeks before the election and has no connection to the Florida case."
"Attorney John Scalia Joins Greenberg Traurig LLP's Tysons Corner Office," (http://www.gtlaw.com /...) GTLaw.com, January 10, 2001; Scalia's GTLaw profile (http://www.gtlaw.com /...).
4. "Miami-headquartered firm partially funded/sponsored delegation to Israel by House-Senate Armed Services Committee members and government contractors to witnes and be briefed on interrogation resistance procedures and torture techniques ... One of lobbyists joining them to Israel included Jack London, CEO, CACI International, the American defense contractor implicated by Major General Antonio M. Taguba in outsourced Iraqi torture at Abu Ghraib prison." See Taguba Report.

Ali Abunimah, "Israeli link possible in US torture techniques. In exchange for interrogation training, did Washington award security contracts?" (http://www.dailystar.com.lb /...) The Daily Star (Lebanon), May 11, 2004. Also posted May 18, 2004 by San Francisco Indymedia (http://sf.indymedia.org /...).
Tom Flocco, "Gonzalez confirmation hearing ignored US / Jordan torture links and legislative junket to Israel to witness 'anti-terror' exercises," (http://911citizenswatch.org /...) 911citizenswatch.org, January 7, 2005.
5. "Firm has prominent administrative positions in Massachusetts 9/11 Fund which also involves Bush family banking house Brown Brothers Harriman."

"$500,000 DONATION LAUNCHES MASSACHUSETTS 9/11 FUND. Stop & Shop and Greenberg Traurig LLP Launch Fund Supported by Victims' Families," (http://www.gtlaw.com /...) GTLaw.org, January 2002.
Yahoo! Search results (http://search.yahoo.com /...), December 20, 2005.
6. "One appointed as General Counsel of the Department of the Navy and its Office of Naval Intelligence just 90 days before the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon."

"Alberto J. Mora, General Counsel of the Department of the Navy (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil /...), "the 20th General Counsel of the Department of the Navy, was sworn into office on July 25, 2001."
7. "Firm works with 9-11 victims on planning out their U.S. gov't hushmail/bribery estates."

"As The Revolving Door Turns. How does Washington work these days? A telling tale of two Capitol Hill staffers," (http://www.businessweek.com /...) Business Week, July 11, 2005: "On the Hill, both Rudy and Shiffman were involved in issues that were creating a new and lucrative lobbying niche for Greenberg Traurig and others: claims brought by victims of war, terror, and torture against foreign governments and companies. In these cases, U.S. cooperation was key, either in pressing the POWs' case against Japanese companies or in unblocking foreign assets frozen by the U.S. Treasury."
8. "Firm partner is Marvin S. Rosen, Democratic National Committee (DNC) Finance Chairman who supervised activities of convicted fund-raiser and DNC vice-chairman of finance John Huang who had to return half of $3 million+ raised by him because of contributions from illegal foreign sources.

Profile: Marvin S. Rosen (http://www.gtlaw.com /...), GTLaw.com website.
9. Bush still owes Greenberg firm nearly one million dollars for work done by dozens of lawyers and paralegals--leaving some to question why a Republican candidate would hire a Democratic lawyer from a Democratic firm ...

"Bush Florida 2000 recount committee still owes lobbyist's former firm $314k. White House directs queries to RNC," (http://rawstory.com /...) The Raw Story, May 5, 2005:
"Greenberg Traurig has yet to receive more than $314,000 in legal fees charged to a Bush committee during the 2000 Florida recount ... As a corporation, Greenberg's unpaid tab represents a massive in-kind campaign contribution, far larger than anything that went unreported by DeLay. But it appears to be legal: corporations are allowed to donate any amount to the nebulous type of committee employed during the recount. It would, however, violate the committee's self-imposed $5,000 contribution limit from individual donors. ... Greenberg's leadership has apparently declined to press the issue. Jill Perry, Greenberg's director of marketing and public affairs, declined to comment," according to (http://rawstory.com /...) The Raw Story's John Byrne, May 5, 2005.

There is evidence that Jack Abramoff and the Greenberg Traurig firm have served as a conduit for illegal foreign influence-peddling that must be investigated and prosecuted. Readers are urged to contact the media and their representatives to oppose any plea agreement that closes off that line of inquiry.

Copyright, 2005. Mark G. Levey
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. cnn mentioned Durbin (Dem) who is prob. involved.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. A crook is a crook, be he a Democrat or rethug
I hope there aren't many of our guys implicated, but I have said all along:

I don't care which party a crook is from, throw the book at them.

If there are Democratic reps involved, we don't need them.
Throw ALL the bums out!

Fitzgerald has it right "If we ignore the rule of law, we are lost" (or something like that)
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
28. CNN has mentioned Dorgan by name
They mentioned Dorgan while saying that it hits both sides and isn't proof of a Republican "culture of corruption" at all. Surprise, surprise.

Where's the graphic of doantions? Patrick Kennedy was number 2 on that list of amounts, I think. I think the money that Patrick received was from Jack's clients, not Jack. We have to watch how they try to spin this very carefully.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. Since Abramoff is a Republican, it is possible that he may finger
Democrats as well as a way of helping his buddies.
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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
29. i found this link/graph....it shows alot....
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. umm..Patrick Kennedy (RI)--got a lot.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
68. I think RI has a significant Indian population.
It was a large sum of money...but if it came direct from the tribes and is properlyaccounted, I think it is a non-issue. Unless we won't to shut down all $ contributions to Congress.

No doubt there will be a propaganda/misinformation blitzreig on this story. The public perception must be covinced that both Parties are dirty. Another "Iraqis did 9/11" baldface lie that went unchallenged in the lamestream press.

The good news is that the lie saturation point has been reached and people are waking up to the fact that the Republican Party has mrphed into the Republican Syndicate.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
56. Thanks for the link
Like others have mentioned, there is a difference between taking the $$$, and taking the $$$ and voting for specific bills--or in the case of bush*--creating policy. Yet it makes my heart all aflutter to see bush*s & Hassert's name in the mix ( among others:) ).
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
60. I HOPE the Democrats were just pawns in this.
Abramoff donated to them at the urging of the repukes to make it look like the Dems are corrupt too. EVERY DEMOCRAT ON THAT LIST HAD BETTER RETURN EVERY FREAKIN' DIME OF THAT CORRUPT MONEY! If they go down, TOO FUCKING BAD.:grr:
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. No. Abramoff did NOT donate to any Democrats.
He only donated to Repubs. His clients donated to Repubs and Dems, mostly Repubs.

If you frame this as "Abramoff donated to Dems," it creates a picture that isn't true. And the money isn't corrupt; the tribes paid Abramoff in good faith, and they donated money to whomever in good faith.

Go to http://www.talkingpointsmemo to find the link to the pleadings which list the charges brought against Abramoff. It will answer a lot of questions about what went on between Abramoff and the tribes.

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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
30. Katherine Harris won't be giving her slush money back.




I guess it's kind of like giving the money back to the bank after you rob it and have been caught. With rethugs, they're usually forgiven. Anyone else goes to jail.


Link: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1135159510365

"She was in no way influenced by this campaign contribution; she did no special favors for the tribe."


She will spend the money wisely. More mascara.




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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. LoL...n/t
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
45. But she's already tried to give back her MZM donations!...
I'm guessing that the fact that along with Randy "Duke" Cunningham, she was one of the top three recipients of tainted MZM donations had something to do with it, but my guess is that all of this mess is tied together. Rethugs have tried to wash their hands of her, but don't think that's going to fly, especially if both Cunningham (when "cooperating" with authorities to negotiate a plea deal) and Abramoff now both point in her direction...

Katherine, what goes around, comes around. You WILL pay for your crimes in 2000, one way or the other.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
32. Watch, the MSM will announce some names
You know, like two Dems who received about 2K total (between the two of them) and two Repukes (as if the degree of corruption was identical), and state the famous "other, unnamed congressmen" - not mentioning the fact that the "others" are 100 percent Repuke . . .
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
49. Yup! They'll "Martha Stewart" them! Sure thing! - nt
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DemNoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. DU already awash in Repub talking points
Sickening. Not every contribution involved here is illegal. There is a huge difference between a campaign contribution and taking gifts like trips and tickets to events.

But, as usual, DU will be a key vehicle of distribution and amplification of spin.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Thanks for bringing that out into the light...
Otherwise, we all suffer in darkness...
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. Yes, the issue of Dem contributions has been addressed over and over.
It's as if all the explanations are a waste of time and breath. Mystifying, eh?

Watch what the corporate media does. If they try to downplay it, you know the Repubs are in deep sh*t. If they blast it from the rooftops, then Rove has issued a spin that he thinks will work on the American people and the corporate media will be parroting it 24/7.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. or, you could just explain the difference instead of condescendingly
attacking everyone as republican plants.

I found your post informative and a good reminder of the difference between contributions and gifts.
Can you elaborate more on that? I mean, without the dripping judgmentalism of DU.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
74. Oops
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 01:05 PM by Straight Shooter
I responded to the wrong thing.

Crazy morning!
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #33
52. HUH?
So this is BAD to talk about?

The msm will do that work for their masters, we aint advancing the rw talking points.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
44. It's awesome that this scandal is breaking at the beginning of an election
year. You couldn't ask for better timing! :popcorn:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
48. Byron Dorgan (D) named, has been franticly returning $$$


he is the only Democrat mentioned so far yet MSRNC keeps reporting that the scandal will involve many Democrats as well with the repukes. whatever....
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
71. I'll try again to explain what the 'liberal' media will not.
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 01:09 PM by Catrina
Dorgan was on the Indian Affairs Committee that exposed much of the corruption, after they received complaints from the Indian Tribes cheated by Abramoff. He and John McCain conducted the hearings that revealed all the corruption, which, btw, is MIND-BOGGLING and since I watched most of the hearings, I never once heard that any Democrat was involved in any of it.

Dorgan received money from Indian tribes, as do all members who represent them. That is not illegal. But during the hearings, as the extent of the corruption was revealed, and Abramoff's role in the distribution of money, he and others, realized that money they received from others, may have come through Abramoff. With that in mind, it's best to return it, imo. Because even though the recipients (and this includes Republicans who were unaware of the origin of some of the money they received) did not know anything about Abramoff's involvement, they now know the money may have been tainted.

Gale Norton's Interior Dept. was revealed as possibly being heavily influenced by Abramoff and Scanlon. It was after that revelation in the Senate Hearings, that Scanlon decided to plead guilty ~

Bob Ney (who used the Congressional Record to help Abramoff scare Boulis) is an example of where a crime may have been committed.

Tom Delay (who went on trips to Scotland and we are now told, Russia) paid for by Abramoff, is another example of how crimes may have been committted.

Abramoff had a direct link to the WH through his former assistant, Susan Ralston I believe, who became Karl Rove's assistant after Bush took office. But it was through Ralph Reed, who claimed he could get Karl to get things done, that Abramoff usually got through to Karl. There are emails proving how all this was done.

Susan Ralston, it is reported, never put anyone through to Karl, without first checking with Norquist. Patrick Fitzgerald has called Susan Ralston before the GJ several times. She claims she is no longer Rove's assistant. But she is still in the WH, so who knows.

She is important in the Abramoff affairs, because of her Philipino ties and because of that other Abramoff scandal, the one that has yet to be investigated in the Marianas islands where poor Philipinos were exploited and Abramoff influenced legislation to prevent laws being passed that would have stopped the evil exploitation of women and children etc.

In all the evidence I watched throughout the past year in those hearings, I did not hear the name of a single Democrat mentioned.

Norquist, Reed, Delay, the Interior Dept. with various members testifying, all Republicans, Kidan, Scanlon, Bob Ney, Burns ~ on and on, not one Democrat, until the story finally hit the MSM.

NOW we hear, (nothing about what was revealed in the Senate Hearings) that a few Democrats 'received money from Abramoff as well as Republicans'???

Except that this appears not to be the case, just the Media spewing out Karl Rove propaganda. So far, I have seen zero proof of any Democrat taking money from Abramoff directly and in return (as in the case of Bob Ney eg) influencing legislation in return for the money.

Please someone, show us the proof before repeating the Rightwing spin.

And if Democrats allow this spin to continue unchecked, it will become a fact. Karl Rove and his evil minions are all about perception. Perception is created in the first presentation. After that, it is difficult to change.

If there is a Democrat who is guilty, then out him/her now and remove them from the party. But to take this 'dems did it too' without outrage, when we know that this is a Republican scandal, is just another indication of how the media is in the hands of this administration.





Oh, and I meant to present some FACTS, which the media has yet to do.

These are the indictments handed down so far:

Safavian: Republican WH official.
Kidan: Republican Abramoff partner.
Scanlon: Republican Abramoff partner.
Abramoff: Top Republican lobbyist
Tom Delay: Republican Majority leader of the House, more indictments expected.

Not connected to Abramoff so far as we know, more Republican indictments.

Three Republicangovernors.
Rep. Cunningham: Republican member of the House

This is just off the top of my head, but in the Governor Ryan case, there were 30 other indictments handed down to Republicanswho worked in his administration, eg.

I know there were more this past year, but that's a start. I think we need to compile a list to take out when the topic of DC corruption comes up, to simply bring out. I will do a little more research, because it's hard to keep up with all the Republican corruption and indictments.

Editing to add a few more Republican indictments which I forgot:

Larry Franklin Republican in the Pentagon Spy case.
Rubin Republican Pentagon spy case.
Weissman Republican Pentagon spy case.

The above are all facts. All these people have been charged with crimes, and all of them are Republicans If I think of more in between working here, I will try to add them also.

To the MEDIA if you're watching. Add to the list any Democrats I may have overlooked. And if you can't, then REPORT FACTS, not spin, it is your duty. If you don't, then when this house of cards falls, all propagandists who enabled them, hopefully will fall with them.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. excellent post!
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 12:51 PM by leftchick
<sigh> I only wish a tenth of that could be seen on my TV. :(
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. EXCELLENT Post! Please make it a separate post here on DU...
We all need to be reminded of the truth and we are so bombarded with lies and disinformation sometimes we forget to keep our eye on the ball.

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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
54. Well, if Dem Senators go down over this, I only have one concern
As to whether Republican governors pick their replacements. It could deliver the Repukes a super-majority long enough to shove everything through before the election
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
58. Before you condemn EVERYONE who received any $$,
remember, it's NOT the donation that is WRONG, it's the quid-pro-quo actions done BECAUSE of the $$.

If you look at the list of people who actually received $$, most of the Dems were in some "ranking minority" position on a committee that dealt with Indian Affairs.

As difficult as it may be, we need to wait for additional information from this investigation. It's possible that ALL the Pubs who received $$ didn't do anything wrong either. So far, from the little I've read, it does look like it was ONLY some of the Pubs who actually took the grandios vacations, and swung the legislation in favor of the Abramoff desires. We'll just have to be patient.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
62. graph
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Is this graph sourced in any way?
Because, the WashingtonHo isn't exactly neutral on this issue, is it?
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Time will tell
and even then the interconnecting webs will not fully be revealed. Much will be secreted as it would reveal too much, as in how what Abramoff was involved with is really just standard operating procedure in DC. He just happened to go Way over the top in arrogant and reckless fashion.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. R'uh Roh Daschle and Gephardt are on the top list
:scared:
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