Would you want your daughter to marry an ex-gay man?

[BOSSHOG]

Hilarious editorial in today's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/10/opinion/10savage.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Once again, a brief look at evangelical christians exposes their lunacy. "Once a man can pass as x-gay, once he's gotten some Dockers, a bad haircut, an expired gym membership he's supposed to become in effect an x-gay missionary reaching out to hostile gay tribes in such inhospitable places as Chelsea and West Hollywood. A good Friday read.

[Avalux]

1. That makes me ill.

And I have to say - personally - been there, done that. He tried to be straight; I was too young and naive to know any better - didn't work. These people are idiots.

[Kikosexy2]

13. Yes...

why of course...that way she'll be fashionably and impeccably well dressed and coiffed...she'll be fabulously cultured and finessed...SHE WILL BE FIERCE BABY FIERCE!! Of course this coming from a gay guy, I'm being well...sarcastic...ex-gay guys?? do they mean those guys I play with (you know what I mean) at the adult bookstores and the parks and public restrooms??

[King Coal]

81. I would say only if he can prove he's not gay anymore.

If he is willing to prove it by public fornication, then why not?

[Montauk6]

2. I'd be more worried that she'd be getting involved with a fundie.

[Kber]

6. No shit!

anything but that.

Cause I cant tell you for sure that her in-laws would not approve of her family one bit!

[smartvoter]

39. Yep. nt

[rd_kent]

3. Is there such a thing as "ex-gay"?

[BushOut06]

4. Well, he could be bisexual

In which case, he could enjoy being with both sexes. But I dont know about the whole "ex-gay" thing.

[Arkansas Granny]

19. That's kind of what I think. I personally don't know anyone who

claims to be "ex-gay" so I'm guessing here. I do know a few men who enjoy being with both sexes and they consider themselves to be bisexual.

Would I want my daughter to marry one? That would depend on whether he meant to remain faithful to her and not engage in any risky behavior that could endanger her health. I think this would be important with a totally straight partner also. Other than that, I would have to trust my daughter's judgment.

[rd_kent]

23. Yeah, but thats jusr semantics!!!!

IMHO, if you have sex with someone of the same sex, you are gay. If you have sex with both sexes, yes, you may be "bisexual" but youre still gay.

[cfield]

48. Sort of...maybe

Having sex with the same sex doesn't make you gay any more than having sex with the opposite sex makes you straight. It's feeling an attraction to people of the same sex that make you gay. For me, I'm bi sexual. Not because I've had sex with men and women, but because while I'm obsessivly attracted to men (especially my husband), I'm also attracted to women. Certain ones, of course, do absolutely nothing for me but the same is true for certain men as well.

A gay man having sex with only women doesn't mean he's straight, only that he's having straight sex. Same thing works on a straight man or woman having sex with someone of the same sex; doesn't mean they're gay, only that they're having homosexual sex. Granted, most people would never have homosexual sex if they weren't attracted to the same sex (making them gay) but the act itself isn't what determines someone's "gay-ness".

[BushOut06]

49. Not really

I've known some gay people who were adamant that there was no such thing as being bisexual, that you had to be either gay or straight. IMHO, that's a pretty closeminded view. I've had a few dalliances with men in the past and enjoyed them - but at the same time, I know that my desire for the female persuasion is real, there is no uncertainty there. I enjoy surfing and watching porn, but I can never get myself turned on by gay porn. There's just no connection there the way there is with a woman for me.

I guess you could say I'm more of a hedonistic type - if it feels good, go for it. Safely, of course ;)

[foreigncorrespondent]

54. Oh God!

It is these kinds of moronic thoughts that actually cause homophobia. The moment people begin to realize that ones sexual desire has absolutely nothing to do with sex the sooner this world would become a happy place to live, for ALL.

Tell me, do you fall in love just to get laid? I don't think so. So how dare you shit all over a same sex or bisexual relationship like you have.

Go back and do some major reading to actually learn some things, will ya?

[LostinVA]

63. What you said, FC

[UncleSepp]

61. Your experience as a gay "bisexual" may not extend to everyone

If you enjoy sex with partners of both genders, but consider yourself to be actually gay, that's your business. It isn't the same for everyone. There are people who enjoy sex with both genders and who consider themselves straight, and there are people who enjoy sex with both genders and consider themseves bisexual.

In my opinion and in my experience, being gay or straight or bisexual is more about who you fall in love with. Sex is sex, love is something else.

[catmother]

32. back in my wild days (the late 60's) i worked in a beauty salon in

greenwich village. all the hairdressers except one were gay. the salon was open till 9 pm so many times we would go out to the gay bars after work. (by the way i'm straight). i did have sex with a few guys who were gay and some bi-sexual, but i never had any delusions about them being straight. it was just sex and it was fun. hell it was the late 60s -- "make love not war".

speaking of that -- i brought my 6 year old son into the salon on my day off. one of the guys came running up to my son and said "say hello to your aunt pat". my son said "you can't be my aunt, you're a man". was i a bad mother exposing my son to gay people at such a young age?

[annabanana]

33. Oh hell no..

Better he should gain early tolerance of the differences between people and learn to accept everyone for who they are...

[catmother]

34. that was my feeling. i don't know why but i seem to always

attract gay friends. back in the late 70s i became friends with a few gay women. one couple, in particular, spent a lot of time with my husband and i. you could never tell -- they were both beautiful. but this same son of mine had a crush on one of the women. he was about 18 then, and i had to break the news to him. it was so funny -- he would bring his friends over and they would flirt with these 2 women.

when i moved to phoenix 16 years ago, my next door neighbors were 2 gay guys, and the 2 women who lived on the next street were gay. of course, i'm friends with them still.

another odd thing -- back then phoenix was a very "white" city and the couple that bought the house across the street from us were "black". of course, we also became friends with them.

but what are the statistics of moving cross country -- and finding neighbors like this?

when i worked in the salon in the village my boss (the owner) used to say "you are the biggest fag hag in new york city. every gay guy in new york comes into this salon to see you"

on edit: my husband and i have been together for 35 years and he has never felt threatened by being around gay men. of course, none of our friends are "screaming queens", but he's comfortable with who he is whereas my first husband would have never socialized with gays. i think it's men who are insecure that are uncomfortable around gay men.

[Arkansas Granny]

35. I exposed my children to many gay and lesbian friends of mine.

They loved my kids, my kids loved them. We didn't go out of our way to explain anyone's sexual preferences, but the kids figured it out, especially as they got older. Although some of my family and straight friends thought that I was crazy, I think it made my children less judgmental of people whose lifestyle and attitudes are outside the "norm".

[Yollam]

37. Exactly. Ex-gay is bullshit.

I fooled around with people of both genders when I was very young, but after a few years, when I realized that I preferred a female partner, I met, fell in love with and married my wife. But I never hid, apologized or felt guilty about my past. I tried everything I was interested in and I don't feel like I missed out on anything. "Sowed my wild oats" so to speak. I'm still a bisexual but in an exclusive committed relationship with a woman. I suppose that would make me a "practicing" heterosexual, but I don't feel any shame over having bisexual feelings.

These guys are different. Whether they are repressed gays or bisexuals, the religious insanity instilled in them from childhood has made them feel that that part of their self is dirty and shameful, so they are trying to act out the role of a straight man (usually with laughable results).

No wonder we see so many pastors, repuke leaders, etc. being arrested for soliciting underage male prostitutes, etc. I don't know why these guys knowingly undertake such a masquerade, knowing that it will in the long run likely destroy whatever family they try to create. There are a few out, or semi-out conservatives, like GannonGuckert, or GOP operative Finkelstein, who recently wed his male partner. So why not join a more liberal denomination and just come out? I guess it's the family thing. I'm so glad I had a non-religious, non-judgmental family growing up. Who I slept with was the least of their concerns.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/09/politics/09finkelstein.html?ex=1270699200&en=ca95af744bb6439b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

But just as there are women out there who think they can reform a wife-beater or a philanderer, there are these women who think they can convert a clearly gay man over to the other side. I suppose gay mens' sensitivity and shared interest in more feminine things might also be an attraction in some cases.

As long as mainstream Christian denominations keep telling gay and bisexual men that their natural interest in other men is sinful and anti-family, they will continue to impersonate straights, then destroy their families lives when their urges become irresistible and they start to cheat.

How the Christians figure that encouraging this pattern (which I have seen repeated OVER and OVER) is "pro-family" is beyond me. They have destroyed far more families with their repression than they have helped.

[Karenina]

42. I got burned once...

When I was 19 and hadn't quite figured out the closet thing. It's the WORST betrayal and to this day I still harbor residual contempt for those we called "closet queens," although with age I've developed a bit more compassion.

The psychic abuse that a hetero woman often experiences at the hands of one lying about himself is DEVASTATING. Some friends decided to cheer me up and took me to my favorite disco on 7th Ave So. It was a place I frequented, cuz I could dance the night away and not get hit on. They SCHOOLED me that night on how to spot the signals. :wow:

My dearest friend, a brilliant pianist, and I dragged our tired, stoned bodies up to his flat and fell asleep spooning. I KNEW his orientation, we just liked cuddling from time to time.

Some asshole outed him to his parents. I lost him to suicide... :cry:

[Yollam]

43. That's terrible.

To me all love is wonderful and beautiful. It's sad how some parents can utterly destroy that beauty in their child and fill them up with shame to the degree that they would take their own life.



I have two boys and I don't care if they grow up to be transgendered parking meter maids. As long as they are happy and find love in this world.

[BlueIris]

82. Ouch. I can relate to a lot of your post.

Including being in an abusive relationship with a self-hating gay man, which--horrible.

Thankfully, the one (non-abusive) gay person I knew who was deeply closeted at one time has since come out and is enjoying the love and support of his friends and community now. I can't imagine what it must be like for people to lose their friends and loved-ones due to rejection from homophobic haters.

[oldcoot]

46. These particular Christians do not live in the real world

They live fantasy land where all you have do is pray and you will get whatever you want including being straight. They would probably argue that these relationships failed because the couples did not have "enough faith." They would never recognize that what they were asking was impossible.

[liberalitch]

8. I think that's kind of like being ex-white or ex-black....

I USED to be a white girl.... now I'm Asian

[Raster]

17. No, there is not. I am gay. I *KNOW* that men who are gay are

"hard wired" (every pun intended) to prefer their own sex, sexually and emotionally. And before the closet homophobes come out of the closet (once again, every pun intended) to spew "there is no evidence blah blah blah), I would like to remind them that there is evidence there are indeed physiological and neurological differences and if homophobic cretins in the scientific community would allow COMPETENT sexual research to be done, we would indeed find physiological reasons for homosexuality. Human sexuality is one of the LEAST studied areas of the human condition, primarily because we are such a sexually repressed society.

That said, a gay man can no more change his primary orientation than a straight man can. We can sample the wares, enjoy the tasty treats, but we won't spend all of our time shopping in that location.

Like I said, I am gay and I've known since a VERY EARLY age what sex I was wired for. I may deny it, but I can't change it. And just for the record, I am married to a woman. Ours is a marriage of companionship and convenience. She is my dearest friend of many years, we own a house together and for all practical purposes are domestic partners. However the company I work for will not recognize a domestic partnership between opposite sexes. Thus, we married so I can share the benefits provided by my employer. Sex is not a part of our relationship.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. I don't know

Whenever I'm talking for someone who's on the fundie side about the issue I always ask them "how do they know they were gay in the first place?" How about being bisexual? Than I remind them they are in no authority to judge someone and only God is and should leave it at that.

[LostinVA]

62. No.

[liberalitch]

5. No, but I wouldn't mind if my gay son married a CURRENTLY gay man...

would I be the mother of the bride of the mother of the groom?
or would the other mom and me have to decide that?

[Kber]

7. You'd have to arm wrestle for it.

I think I read that in Emily Post somewhere ;)

[liberalitch]

11. Is that in Emily Post?

[bleedingheart]

44. go for mother of the groom...that way you are only obligated for the

rehearsal dinner...

;-)

[liberalitch]

59. and the flowers.... flowers too.... and they have to be stunning!

[LostinVA]

64. And the tux rentals...

[Tyler Durden]

9. Non-sequiter/Non compos mentos.

Doesn't exist. Might as well say Ex-Asian or Ex-African American.

Excluding Michael Jackson, of course, who may be ex-human.

[rpgamerd00d]

10. I would object to my daughter marrying something that doesnt exist

There is no such thing as an "ex-gay" man.

There are "gay men" and "gay men in denial".

Neither are appropriate to marry a woman, especially my daughter.

[SmokingJacket]

52. That sign in your sigline: I've seen it 1000 times and never noticed

that it's funny. It's in New Jersey...

[LeftyMom]

12. A co-worker of mine dated a guy who didn't tell her he was gay and just

experimenting with women. She got knocked up, then he realized he wasn't into women. It was a mess and will continue to be one until they're daughter is grown.

If I had a daughter, there's no way in hell I'd want her to go through that.

[TahitiNut]

14. I guess that's the adult version of "imaginary friend."

:eyes: :shrug:

[DinahMoeHum]

15. If G*d didn't make gays and lesbians, there wouldn't be any.

n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

27. I like that one

:) And I also mention in the Bible that in the OT in the beginning they had incest. How else did they populate?

[Raster]

45. That is, if you believe the bible-myth horseshit, which I don't.

[catmother]

16. it happened to my friend's mother. she had no idea when she

married him -- and thought something was wrong with her. of course, they got divorced but she was traumatized by the whole thing.

[Boomer]

24. Naivete or denial?

I know there must be women who are genuinely fooled by a straight-acting gay man, but I've known more women who were simply willfully blind to the obvious.

A couple of examples come to mind, such as a popular romance writer who is now divorced and openly bitter about her ex. I've seen the guy, and he is a flaming queen. How could she not see that before they were married?

And another was a friend of mine. She lives in Hollywood, works in the entertainment business, hangs out with gay women, and she fell head-over-heels for a gay guy. She claimed she didn't know he was gay. Even though he was a dancer, loved musicals, and adored male actors. Hello? I knew he was gay just hearing about him. He assumed she knew he was gay because IT WAS OBVIOUS and he was thunderstruck when she finally tried to come on to him.

So just like all the legions of women who "didn't have a clue" their husband was having an affair, there are probably many women who just don't want to know their husband is gay. It's a mutually complicit coverup.

[catmother]

29. well my friend's mothers case was about 40 years ago, things

were different then.

but i completely forgot about someone i knew. i used to go to the beauty school for my pedicures. i met this really nice young lady who was wearing a jesus pin. she was engaged and i was new in town and i had very long hair. she said i should have her boyfriend do my hair -- that he specialized in long hair. so i made an appointment. the name of the salon was "styles from above" and there was christian rock music playing. well anyway i met dan and my first impression was that he was gay. but he talked consistently about lisa and his upcoming wedding. so they got married and i ran into lisa at the gym and she was very upset. she said "everytime dan made love to her she felt like he wanted to vomit afterwards." i finally said "lisa is dan gay"? she said "i don't know." they had never had sex before they were married but of course, she figured it was the religious thing. well of course, they broke up -- he was trying to be straight because of the whole religious thing, but i heard about a year later that dan "had finally come out and was living with a man".

don't know what became of lisa. she was quite beautiful so i'm sure she found someone else.

[Boomer]

57. Talk about a river in Egypt

"everytime dan made love to her she felt like he wanted to vomit afterwards."

That's usually a pretty good indication that a guy is gay. :banghead:

Where do these women come from?

[Gormy Cuss]

30. That romance writer had a bestseller based on it, though.

I predict she'll have another when she writes about the ungrooving.

[LostinVA]

66. Terry McMillan isn't a romance writer

Sorry, not being pedantic, it's just uncontrollable -- I was a book buyer for years, and she doesn't write in that genre. She's classified as either a fiction writer or an African-American writer.

[Gormy Cuss]

73. I know, but isn't she the unnamed author?

She IS a fiction author who wrote a bestseller about romance and had a spectacular break-up from her gay husband.
Perhaps there's a romance writer out there who fits the bill and I missed the connection. :shrug:

[LostinVA]

77. "Stella Got Her Groove Back"

[Gormy Cuss]

79. ...

Yes, my earlier reference to 'ungrooving' demonstrates that this was the title I had in mind. I'm just playing with your pedantic response. Humor me. ;-)

[LostinVA]

80. Sorry! I think the snow is mesmerizing me this morning...

[LostinVA]

65. You're talking about Terry McMillan, who isn't a romance writer

However, her ex is sooooo gay, and she has been making some VERY homophobic comments about the whole thing. Yeah, he romanced her and got his green card, but she turned a blind eye to MANY signals and got herself a buff young guy. She has a right to be upset, but not a right to keep on giving these nasty interviews about it. Geez.

[Boomer]

75. Ooops. Thanks for the clarification

I haven't read McMillan's works, and must have confused HER romance with her genre. :eyes:

[catmother]

18. i had a gay friend who asked me to marry him. it would be a

marriage of convenience. there was at lot of family money involved, but they wanted him to be have a wife. i did give it some thought.

[Devlzown]

20. That is hilarious.

I'd love to see them try pulling that ex-gay shit in the French Quarter!

[Sequoia]

21. I'm reminded of another movie: Pillow Talk

with Rock Hudson and Doris Day (for all you young'uns out there). Rock is pretending to be a Texan whom Doris has madly fallen for (not know his true idenity as her foe on the party line) and they go out for a while. She gets a phone call suggesting Tex might be...well...they never come out and say it but talks about art and fasion and Doris is concerned that he hasn't made a pass at her. This is pretty funny, because Rock was actually gay. But heck, that didn't stop women from gushing over him. I was only around 12 or 13 and what bothered me most about his being gay was Gomer Pyle was his love interest. Yuk all the way. Why not someone cool like Montgomery Cliff?!

[MissMarple]

41. Here's link to snopes re Nabors and Hudson.

It talks about them not getting married, that was apparently a joke by some friends that got out of hand. It doesn't say anything about a relationship, though.

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/nabors.htm

[lakeguy]

22. i'd rather have her marry a gay man.

couldn't imagine living with someone who denies who they are.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. This part really got me

<Christians were upset when they learned that a gay actor, Chad Allen, was playing a straight missionary in "End of the Spear." >

So only straight people can act now? :shrug: Of course, attacking the messenger and not the message. :eyes: I REALLY liked this part of the article and it makes for a good argument: <Evangelical Christians seem sincere in their desire to help build healthy, lasting marriages. Well, if that's their goal, encouraging gay men to enter into straight marriages is a peculiar strategy. Every straight marriage that includes a gay husband is one Web-browser-history check away from an ugly divorce.

If anything, supporters of traditional marriage should want gay men out of the heterosexual marriage market entirely. And the best way to do that is to see that we're safely married off — to each other, not to your daughters. Let gay actors like Chad Allen only play it straight in the movies. >

This was a very well written article. I'm sad that many of my fellow Christian's won't let people just be. God still loves them and He's the only judge. We can only control our own lives and we all have freewill. But this was a really great article and it showed how sometimes ex-gay marriages don't work. I remember seeing this movie on the Sundance Channel called "Making Love" where this guy gets married to someone he's been involved with for a long time and he met up with someone he knew from his past and he started realizing he was gay and had an affair and the movie was really great about showing what happens in a relationship like that to both people. :) Try to find the film if you can. I thought they all did a great job in the film.

[Katherine Brengle]

28. there is no such thing as an ex-gay man or woman. n/t

[EC]

31. no such thing, so now, he would obviously be a shyster..

or a delusional nut (crazy, insane)

[minerva50]

36. My Grandmother told my mom that her dad was gay.

I have no idea whether it was true, but I can see that it might have been. They had 4 kids and he was very active in the Catholic church, but that could have been him working to have a "normal" life. My grandmother was an alchoholic and a selfish old nag much of the time, but if true that could have been a contributing factor. I can't imagine how miserable I'd feel married to someone who'd really prefer to be with his boyfriend.

[porphyrian]

38. I reject the premise of the question.

People aren't "ex-gay." Sexual preference occurs on a spectrum determined genetically, not as a binary choice.

[robcon]

40. I have a niece and a friend who are 'ex-gay'

My niece has been happily married to a man for 2-3 years. She was living a gay lifestyle for 6-8 years.

My friend thought she was gay, lived with a lesbian, but found out she wasn't - perhaps she never was. She's also married now.

One other thing, despite the use of the word "bisexual" I believe most psychologists say that very few people are bisexual: many change their orientation; very few act on an attraction for both sexes at the same time.

[Yollam]

47. The key word is "act".

Yes, it's true that few people pursue relationships with both sexes at the same time. But the fact that a man exclusively dates partners of one gender doesn't mean he isn't bisexual. He's not a practicing bisexual, but if he still has attractions to both genders, he is still a bisexual.

As a lifestyle, bisexuality is not really practical for most people. Most people tend to want to settle down with a long-term partner, so most bisexuals end up making a choice at some point.

I wish more people understood this.

[Duncan Grant]

55. What is a gay lifestyle?

You mention that your niece was living a gay lifestyle. From your perspective, what would you say a "gay lifestyle" is?

[foreigncorrespondent]

58. Funny!!!

I was going to ask the very same question!!!

And to think, we are both gay and must have been living a gay lifestyle all these years without ever knowing! ;)

[Duncan Grant]

67. It's all so Robin Leach: "Lifestyles of the gay and fabulous!"

Tune in this week's episode where we'll see real gays and lesbian have identical lives to straights - except for that icky sex thing. :sarcasm:

Honestly fc, we're doomed to hear this ignorance for the rest of our lives. Thankfully, there are a few bright spots every now and again.

:loveya: to you and your love!

[LostinVA]

71. I DO own a chainsaw...

[LostinVA]

70. I was gonna ask that, too, but am tired of trying

To explain this to people who don't want to hear it.

ASs I always say, I don't have a "lifestyle," I have a life, dammit.

[LostinVA]

68. Your niece isn't an ex-lesbian

There's no such thing, it can't happen. Either she was NEVER gay, or she isn't "happily married," and is living a lie.

[Katherine Brengle]

74. I think that falls under the "sexual experimentation" umbrella and not

the "ex-gay" one.

I find that women are much more open to experimentation when it comes to this, but I don't think it is possible to change one's sexual orientation.

There is no such thing as a "gay lifestyle"--there's "homosexual" and "heterosexual" and there is no choice about your actual sexual orientation. This is not to say that one cannot choose to act outside of their actual orientation (as in, a man who is homosexual choosing to marry a woman and have children for whatever reason), but I don't think it is appropriate to assume that all homosexuals are making a choice to be homosexual.

If this were the case, then most of us are living a "heterosexual lifestyle."

[Boomer]

76. Women's sexuality doesn't equate with men's

Women in general have a more fluid, less sharply defined sexual orientation than men. In fact, some women respond more strongly to emotional attachments than they do sexual attraction and may have trouble even recognizing their own sexual impulses.

This isn't a good or bad thing, but it does mean that women are more likely to shift the focus of their attractions than to outright "lie" about them.

My partner has been involved with men and women throughout her life, but she's now in a long-term monogamous relationship with me, so if asked for a "label" she would opt for gay. She hasn't changed her orientaion, although it might look like that to an outsider. I've never been seriously involved with a man, but I do recognize some attractions that I never acted on because I was always involved with a woman at the time.

I'd be very leery of any woman who had to go through a "ex-gay" program however. If she can't muster an attraction to some guy on her own, then she's probably at the far end of the "gay" scale and no program is going to change that.

[Zhade]

50. Um, that's not possible, since being gay's not a choice.

'Ex-gays' are just repressed.

[kathy14-0]

51. Is there an appropriate response to that

If so I cant think of one. Truly mindblowing.

[karlrschneider]

53. Over the last couple decades, I've learned about at least 4 of my oldest

friends every one of which married girls and produced children finally came 'out'. Ironically one of them is my brother-in law...I never quite saw what my sis saw in him, he never struck me as being particularly intelligent and far from good-looking but obviously she loved him and they have 2 great kids. She tried for a few years to 'cure' him despite my insistence that he wasn't 'sick'...and was just doing much the same as the Brokeback guys were (I haven't seen it but I think I 'get' the plot quite well enough.) However, it's been worked out fairly well...she now accepts him and they remain ...what's the word?...friends in a way but I guess amicable is better. Their son was a HUGH (sic) homophobe when he was a teenager but now has completely changed, he stays with my BIL and his male partner frequently.

Oddly enough, when I first met him ~30 years ago it was at a family gathering and his -brother- activited my gaydar...he was a VERY cute guy and he defended gay people in a dinner table discussion (it shocked the shit out of us all!) :D In retrospect, I wonder if he knew about his brother.

It's a crazy world.

[AngryOldDem]

56. Sure, why not?

This assumes, I think, that I believe a person can change his sexual orientation.

But if he treats her well and she's happy...go for it.

[LostinVA]

72. People cannot change their sexual orientation n/t

[Jara sang]

60. Isn't "ex-gay" merely bi-sexual?

[frustrated_lefty]

69. Perish the thought....

my daughter is going to grow up to be a fine, upstanding lesbian. No smelly guy is going to touch her.

[savemefromdumbya]

78. There's no such thing as ex gay - you don't suddenly lose it!

Bush seems to think it is a choice