Official Senate Committee Hearing - Electronic Surveillance - Thread 18

[Sydnie]

thread 17
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=338593&mesg_id=338593

[LSK]

1. thanks Sydnie

Graham up again. Hes going into the signing statement.

[Sydnie]

2. Welcome

:hi:

(I really thought he would not come back. Surprised that he did)

[LSK]

3. what is the signing statement?

[Sydnie]

6. blivet** signing a law with a statement saying what part he will follow

and what part he won't, as in the torture portion added by McCain. blivet** said he would decide when he would follow it and when he wouldn't. Presidential discretion.

[LSparkle]

4. Interesting ... GRAHAM brings up signing statements

and "inherent power." This is getting ... well, bipartisan!

[chelsea0011]

8. When push comes to shove Graham is never bipartisan

He talks a good game but always folds even with a winning hand.

[LSparkle]

15. Yeah -- was that him talking about a "fifth column" or Gonzo?

That's getting a little too close to admitting that there are "legitimate" reasons to spy on Americans -- like if they dissent, maybe? Sends a chill up my spine.

[Surya Gayatri]

5. Graham talking about "inherent power"...

"taken aback by inference that President can ignore congressional statutes".

[tishaLA]

7. How was old Lindsay this morning?

I missed him. Shill or constitutionalist?

[Sydnie]

9. He wasn't too bad

not so much of a shill this morning. Asked a few real questions. Wonders never cease.

[Nimrod2005]

12. Hit 1000 today and did not even realize it!!!

Too busy with this stuff...Happy to do it. Thank you all for keeping us informed.

[Sydnie]

16. Congratulations!

1000 times! :hi:

[Nimrod2005]

19. Thanks.

:toast:

[Surya Gayatri]

20. Bravo for reaching the magic 1000!

[Surya Gayatri]

10. Defended constitution in his convoluted way...

[EFerrari]

11. He's bringing up "5th column movements" and the problem

of monitoring citizens who may be collaborating.

[Moochy]

13. O the Irony!

When the neocons are the true 5th column.

[alittlelark]

17. The first thing I thought of when I heard that was KBR's

contract to build detention facilities.

[radio4progressives]

77. oh, right! i just came across the information yesterday.. n/t

[EFerrari]

18. Zap! Graham just implied there is no check and balance

in Torquemada's theory of "inherent power".

[mod mom]

28. He is speaking of citizens who become sympathetic with the enemy, Am I

misunderstanding him?

[EFerrari]

39. That's right. And he's bringing up the problem presented

in trying to determine who is and who is not aiding the enemy.

We don't have that problem. They already call us terraists.

[mod mom]

43. I wish they would bring up peace activists.

[gkhouston]

46. Has he defined the enemy?

'cause I'm thinking * is thinking it's anyone who doesn't want to kiss his butt.

[mod mom]

109. Remember the quote: "you're either with us ......

[EFerrari]

111. They only spy on the enemy and they have our phone records.

This is math, not algebra. :(

[mod mom]

41. definition:

fifth column
n.
A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an invading enemy's military and political aims.

[radio4progressives]

54. Yeah, Like any one of us against the Endless Wars or the Saber Rattling

against Hugo Chavez... Cindy Sheehan, Harry Belefonte and any one else who will come to the defense of the People of Venezuela and other Latin and South American Countries, this evil administration intends to annihilate because we are the mightiest empire on earth and because we can, we will if we choose to.

[EFerrari]

110. I think Graham was messing with old Al on this.

Code for, you're spying on political opponents and I know it.

Do you think Senate thugs are going to watch Bush enriching his cronies and not try to be cut in?

I can't believe I'm thinking this way.

[LSK]

14. holy crap, who is this Graham dude????

This is NOT the same repuke shill I know.

[EFerrari]

21. This is the one that wants to keep the little power he has.

I was hoping that survival gene would kick in.

[LSK]

23. thats what hes saying right now

[Nimrod2005]

27. What is the next step here, after today?

More hearings? a vote? prison for BushCo?

[Sydnie]

31. hearings to continue tomorrow I think. n/t

[EFerrari]

33. Won't this continue tomorrow?

The Thuggery want to go through the motions of amending the law. The Democrats haven't really said what they want to do. Or, I missed it.

[LSK]

35. im not sure, a lot of Senators will be at the King funeral

Including Kennedy

[Sydnie]

38. Look around, there's not a whole lot of them there today either

No votes were called for today, so there is no need to be in the chamber.

[LSK]

42. that abestos bill - its on CSPAN2

[Zen Democrat]

99. Won't be hearings tomorrow.

Specter said that if they need to question Alberto Torquemada any further, they will have to negotiate a date for his return.

Also talking with Ashcroft and Comey about testifying.

[EFerrari]

103. Thanks. n/t

[gkhouston]

32. too bad it didn't activate LAST week. n/t

[EFerrari]

67. Really. n/t

[Sydnie]

22. I said before he pulled the short straw today

in an attempt to make it look "fair" he has to appear to agree with the other side of the aisle! :rofl:

[EFerrari]

26. I swear you must be right!

Lol

[The Witch]

24. We should take notes. He is doing what we need to do.

Somebody got to him with the "President Hillary" scenario because he is doing our job better than we could possibly do.

Holy crap.

[annabanana]

34. If WE do it, it won't matter.... right now, it only works for repubs

THAT's the spot we're in now.... We are absolutely dependent upon that rare as a unicorn creature, a principled republican.....

I'm glad he's doing it.. I hope he doesn't get his knees chopped off...

[Surya Gayatri]

25. You wouldn't believe it's a Reep talking would you?

[radio4progressives]

57. he is a shill, but he's also a jag n/t

[Tiggeroshii]

59. Graham's interesting.

He's the guy who just a couple months ago removed habeus corpus while shortly before that supported McCain's anti torture bill. If it comes down to votes(i don't know how the whole thing works) it would be Specter, Graham and the Dems wh are themost likely to vote for impeachment proceedings in hearing. I don't know how that works, but whatever happens I hope it brings justice somehow.........

[jsamuel]

29. "If we (congress) can't regulate our troops, we have no power."

WOW, Lindsay is surprising!

[jim3775]

30. From Digby: Graham is putting on an act

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_02_05_digbysblog_archive.html#113925413224557933

"Oh, and don't get excited about Huckleberry Graham's "tough" questions. This is his schtick. Going all the way back to the impeachment hearings, he has done this. He hems and haws in his cornpone way how he's "troubled" by one thing or another until he finally "decides" after much "deliberation" that the Republican line is correct after all and he has no choice but to endorse it."

[Surya Gayatri]

37. May be an act, but it's hitting home for the moment!

[The Witch]

48. However, there isn't a vote.

This is all about how he's painted in the hearings, so Lindsay's grandstanding may work against the Repub line.

[chelsea0011]

50. Exactly right. This guy is a fraud. Likes to tease and then lines

right up behind the repukes.

[Mist]

36. Durbin up. Durbin looks like he's aged 2 decades in 2 weeks. Think

the reality of the evil of bushco has fully kicked in?

[Catchawave]

40. My goodness, it's been a long day.....

Thank you all (especially non-mods Viva and Syd) for the great thread reads, but this committee meeting has gotten on my last nerve, it's all repeatin'in'in'in now.

Bobble_Head Politics :shrug:

[Sydnie]

44. I know what you mean. By this point, I begin to forget points too

but, as longas they keep kicking, I'll try to hang with them.

:hug:

have one on me!

[Catchawave]

66. ....

:hug:

[helderheid]

45. if we'd brief you, we'd have to kill you.

:rofl:

[Sydnie]

47. Rockefeller didn't think he could do about it!

He wrote a letter. What else could he have done?

[EFerrari]

49. Yes! That's what I thought! But, the AG did worse!

He asked how could Durbin be trusted! That was a bad move.

[DemonGoddess]

51. Durbin came firing

right back at him tho didn't he? I hope they continue SHREDDING this ass tomorrow.

[EFerrari]

56. I wish he had said, the president may be your client my client

is the American people. Durbin did well but he's too nice to these criminals.

I guess it's easy to quarterback from my livingroom. :)

[helderheid]

52. He sure blames the media a lot.

[LSK]

55. so the media cant expose it, but congressmen can???

[helderheid]

60. I wonder if he knows the truth after all this twisting and turning.

[LSK]

53. wait, 1st congress should tell on them but then its top secret

So they shouldnt???

:wtf:

[EFerrari]

61. So, did they brief Congress or didn't they? He can't dance

fast enough.

[Mist]

58. Cornyn floats the nifty idea that whistleblowers should only give evidence

secretly, ie, not to the media. Yeah, that would be useful.:sarcasm:

[helderheid]

62. they would be called whisperblowers, not whistleblowers.

[EFerrari]

63. They're not even pretending to be having a conversation now.

Cornyn is reading right from his fax and restating for Torquemada.

:puke:

[helderheid]

65. It's after 5 on the east coast. I think that means I can have a drink.

[emulatorloo]

69. have 2 for me n/t

[EFerrari]

72. Cornyn's doing the Johnny Dangerously joke now:

"If a train leaves Chicago . ."

:rofl:

[Sydnie]

76. Have one on me!

[Mist]

73. This is how the Rethugs slip stuff in. Some heinous idea is mentioned

when it's presumed no one will notice; later, they'll claim "But we raised that in Senate hearings! It was above board!"

[EFerrari]

Yup. They're very good at being bad. n/t

[Mist]

64. Yup. And all such whistleblowing info would then become classified

as a "national security" issue. My feet grow colder..........:scared:

[Sydnie]

68. How did we get to shooting down planes?

The guy is already confirmed ... move on! Unless .... this has something to do with other programs and he is letting a cat out of the bag?

[helderheid]

71. yea no kidding!!!

[emulatorloo]

75. Because it was in Karl's fax

Is there someway we can keep congress from receiving faxes from ROve?

[Dinger]

70. Holy Shit! Thread 18?? I've Just Checked In,

I'll HAVE TO watch the replay tonight, wow!

[helderheid]

74. oh you MUST!

:hi:

[The Witch]

78. Did you hear him talk about "Pro-Congress" lawyers?

VERY interesting slip of the tongue. Check this usage.

[Sydnie]

82. I missed that

I hate when that happens!

[Chalco]

84. Yes, I found that fascinating. Pro-Congress,

they divide everything into either/or, don't they.

[emulatorloo]

79. deranged fundy WHACKJOB brownback kook up

Please - what is the matter with Kansas?

[helderheid]

80. THEY WERE SPYING BEFORE 9/11!!

[Sydnie]

81. I want PROOF that the guys that they claim flew those planes

really DID fly those planes. I want proof. I don't believe it any longer.

If they wanted to listen in on that guy, they had FISA to do so. they are full of SHIT!

[me b zola]

83. Twisting, lying fascists excuse for illegal spying:

"We were afraid that if we got a FISA warrent that we would be accused of spying" :wtf:

Did I hear Brownback right??

[Sydnie]

85. I think you did. n/t

[gkhouston]

90. how can you be spying if you have a warrant saying it's legit?

:wtf:

[emulatorloo]

86. please tell the whackjob from Kansas that you can spy 72 hours prior to

getting warrant from FISA

He is acting like it is all a glacial timetable. . .he knows better and he is a liar

[Sydnie]

92. and Gonzo is acting like it is the same as writing a novel to get one

I heard one of the FISA judges say he has authorized them over the phone! I heard him say it with my own ears! On Faux news, no less!

[emulatorloo]

101. and then we must spell check the application, which takes an eternity n/t

[Sydnie]

87. Can't get a FISA warrant on a whim .. but we can eavesdrop when ever

we want. We didn't have enough evidence to get a warrant, so we skipped it altogether! Isn't that what he is really saying?

[emulatorloo]

89. and then we must spell check the application, which takes an eternity

[EFerrari]

91. Yes. And that's why this Brownback person is an idiot. n/t

[emulatorloo]

95. idiot? or bold faced liar!

these folks know just how ridiculous thier argument are.

[EFerrari]

100. Yes. I wonder what kind of drug you have to be on to live like that. nt

[bettyellen]

88. Gonzo just said poor communication/ coop between intel agengencies...!!!!

is the primary reason they need to go around the Fisa courts.
isn't that the same reason they didn't figure out the 9/11 plot?

[bettyellen]

93. and yet these are the bozos who are evaluating the program....

and we are supposed to just trust them.

[gkhouston]

94. they really need to get a FISA judge to testify

about what complete and utter BULLSHIT this is.

[EFerrari]

96. They pre-emptively briefed the FISA people when the story

broke. One resigned. But I bet the others are now bound to secrecy. Is that possible?

[gkhouston]

102. I don't know. It shouldn't be, but I'll bet BushCo is trying

it on for size.

[bettyellen]

97. BS is right, the main recommendation from the 9/11 comission was to get

these agencies to work better together. and gonzo says they don't share intel as needed.
WTF!!!

[emulatorloo]

104. hasn't 9/11 commission pretty much said Bush has done nothing about

thier recommendations?

[bettyellen]

106. pretty much so, but this is a big one. it's how they fucked up.

[Roland99]

112. Didn't the Patriot Act passed in Oct. 2001 FIX that?!?!?!

LYING FUCKING BASTARDS!!!

[Sydnie]

98. We're still listening too Arlen! Don't forget us out here in TV Land! nt

[Sydnie]

105. thread 19 up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x339627

should be last thread of the day

[WinkyDink]

113. The key question:

Why did you get ANY search warrants? Why not simply SURVEILL them ALL?

[livvy]

107. I have been watching/listening to this all day....

There is one thought that keeps coming back to me, and it is really irrelevant, but I just can't resist commenting...
Where the hell are the tie police? I have never seen such a display of ugly ties all together in one room in my life.
Other than that, this has been one big lie-fest for this slimy weasel. I stopped counting his lies after the first 10 minutes.
Some have asked some great questions, but of course, the weasel either isn't at liberty to answer or he spins and lies.
I guess the ties caught my eye because the lies were getting so boring. The mind does tend to wander when the same old sh*t is being scooped out.
Great Noodly Appendage, what has happened to our country?

[jazzjunkysue]

108. Spector: "I hope you'll bring this to the oversight comittee.."

Hope!?!?!

How about demand!?!?!

This is total crap!