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At least 650 American MERCENARIES have been killed inside Iraq

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:18 PM
Original message
At least 650 American MERCENARIES have been killed inside Iraq

Thanks to redacted for this important thread.

IS THE SINGLE SUPPLY LINE SUPPORTING OUR TROUPS IN TROUBLE? (3 articles)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3120141

WHERE I FOUND THIS

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0108/p06s01-woiq.html

This reduction was also confirmed by a US contractor, who has driven trucks inside Iraq. US Department of Labor statistics show at least 650 American contractors have been killed inside Iraq.

Professor Rodgers says that a more substantial US combat presence in Iraq could cause insurgents to avoid direct confrontation and intensify attacks on supply lines.

"In the longer term, they may respond by attacking the supplies, rather than the troops themselves," he says.


***************

You know private contractors (mercenaries) do not have to follow military orders
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've always wondered what the real number of US casualties in Iraq was
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I saw +7000 troops who have died outside Iraq.
Those injured in Iraq who die after being evacuated apparently are not included in the official statistics for deaths in Iraq. ie die in Germany or stateside of combat injuries, and get listed only in the aggregate deaths in (military) service.

I also recall someone (a pilot or paramedic?) who said that if a soldier can be got into the air with a still beating heart, he is not listed as KIA (killed in action).
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. They ARE included in the official statistics.
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Only if they are US military, right?
But those the OP talks about are Halliburton/Blackwater/KBR employees. Those are not included in those numbers.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Right. There are no official stats for the contractors.
But I was referring to TheMadMonk's post, not the OP. And he was talking about the troops and not the contractors.

I've often thought that one of the reasons for using so many contractors for jobs soldiers used to do, was to keep the fatality rates artificially low; beyond the fact that there is no oversight and they are not answerable to anyone, of course.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. The ARE included.
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. The thing I fear
is that Bush will do what he has always done...screw everything up. He can be counted on to ignore reality, and commit America to the worst possible course of action. He and Darth Cheney have been proven wrong over and over, so why anybody still believes they have the ability to arrive at any kind of responsible solutions to problems, is a mystery.

Congress should do everything possible to put the brakes on this out-of-control administration. Impeachment is one way, but it might be too late to prevent a disaster.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Are you saying the truck drivers are mercenaries?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thats like asking if the getaway driver for a bank robbery is a bank robber
Isn't it?

Don
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Yes I am
Brigadier General Karl Horst

These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff. There's no authority over them, so you can't come down on them hard when they escalate force... They shoot people, and someone else has to deal with the aftermath. It happens all over the place.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Private_Military_Companies_.28PMCs.29

Private Military Companies (PMCs)
A strand of the contemporary mercenary trade sometimes goes under the label of the Private military company or PMC, which provides logistics, manpower, training and other servies. PMCs' contractors are civilians (in governments, international and non-governmental organizations) authorized to accompany a force in the field. Hence, the terminology "civilian contractor" is sometimes used, somewhat euphemistically. PMCs may use force, hence they can be defined as: "legally established enterprises that make a profit by either providing services involving the potential exercise of force in a systematic way and by military means, and/or by the transfer of that potential to clients through training and other practices, such as logistics support, equipment procurement, and intelligence gathering" <2>

It can be argued that paramilitary forces under private control are functionally mercenaries instead of security guards or advisors. However, national governments reserve the right to strictly regulate the number, nature and armaments of such private forces and argue that provided they are not employed in frontline pro-active military activities that they are not mercenaries. That said, the do not enjoy a sterling reputation among government soldiers and officers- several members of the United States Military Command have raised questions about the behavior of such companies in hotzones. In September 2005, Brigadier General Karl Horst, deputy commander of the Third Infantry Division in charge of security in Baghdad after the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, said this of DynCorp and other security firms in Iraq: "These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff. There's no authority over them, so you can't come down on them hard when they escalate force... They shoot people, and someone else has to deal with the aftermath. It happens all over the place."
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. In fact they are. they had a choice, they weren't ordered there,
they did it for money and they aren't preserving protecting or defending anything since they didn't sware an oath. They have failed to provide support to our troops in many cases. They have endangered our troops.

Some of them are involved in crimes and they are part of criminal organizations that also hire and lease employees with skill sets that include torture and assassination.

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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Contractors or mercenaries?
They work for the same company if they are truck drivers or civilian armed 'escorts'.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. And I am sure there is a lot of "filling in" for one another too
I can easily imagine one guy getting tired of driving and taking over riding shotgun for a while to break the monotony.

Plus there would be no American truck drivers in Iraq in the first place had not Bush used Shock and Awe on the Iraqi people and then came in with tanks and guns blazing and with fighter jets for cover.

I would say these guys a classic mercenaries.

Don
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Truck drivers aren't mercs.
The Blackwater security guys are mercs.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes they are
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12010

Driving Into Danger

A Trucker's Family Sues Halliburton

by Pratap Chatterjee, Special to CorpWatch
March 29th, 2005


The daughter of a truck driver has brought a federal lawsuit today against Halliburton , the primary contractor providing logistical support to the military in Iraq. April Johnson is seeking redress for the wrongful death of her father, Tony Johnson, who was killed almost one year ago near Baghdad International Airport. This is the first of several lawsuits by truck drivers and their families against the Houston-based company.

Johnson, a truck driver from Riverside, California, was one of 19 drivers carrying fuel for the United States military from Camp Anaconda to the airport. The convoy drove straight into a major gun battle on April 9, 2004, on what has become the world's most dangerous highway. Two hours later six drivers had died, one was kidnapped and one had disappeared. Only 11 made it to their destination alive that day - the first anniversary of the United States defeat of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq.

April Johnson told CorpWatch that she and her mother want the public to understand that the company misled the drivers about the working conditions and failed to protect their lives.

“What Halliburton did was criminal and the public needs to know," says Kim Johnson, April's mother and the victim's ex-wife. "They took good, honest Americans and didn't tell them that if they didn't do a mission, they would lose their job. They were told that at the slightest hint of danger, they could leave and come home.”

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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Almost everything logistical
has been "privatized" and KBR (Halliburton) is the usual beneficiary, altho I'm sure there are others.

In addition, our troops have to go on missions with some of these trucks to protect them, which I think is absolutely wrong. Not that they don't need protection, just that if TROOOPS were doing those jobs to start with, they'd be their own protection.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. others
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/pmc-list.htm

Mercenary / Private Military Companies (PMCs)
Not all companies provide all services. Some of these companies are classical "merc" operations, while others are risk management firms that have nothing in common with privately contracted military support operations.

ACS Defense
AD Consultancy (UK)
Aegis Defence Services Ltd
AKE Limited (UK)
AirScan (US)
Alpha Five (Hong Kong)
AMA Associates Ltd
ArmorGroup (UK)
Beni Tal
Blackwater Security Company (US)
Combat Force (South Africa)
Combat Support Associates
Control Risks Group
Corporate Trading Intl (Hong Kong)
Cubic Defense Applications
Custer Battles (US)
Defence Systems Ltd. (UK)
Diligence Middle East (US)
DynCorp International(US)
Erinys Iraq Limited
Executive Outcomes (South Africa) defunct
Genric (UK)
Global Development Four
Global Marine Security Systems Company
Global Risk International
Global Risk Strategies (UK)
Group 4 Falck A/S (India)
Gurkha Security Guards (Isle of Man, UK)
Halliburton
Hill and Associates, Ltd. (Hong Kong)
Honey Badger Arms and Ammo (South Africa)
ICI of Oregon
ICP Group Ltd (UK)
ISI Group
Investments Surveys (South Africa)
Jardine Securicor Gurkha Services (Hong Kong)
Joseph Patrick International
Kas Enterprises (South Africa)
Longreach Security (South Africa)
Main Street Supply
Meteoric Tactical Solutions (South Africa)
Meyer & Associates (US)
Military Professional Resources Inc. (US)
Northbridge Services Group Ltd.
Olive Security Ltd (UK)
Omega Support Ltd. (Hong Kong)
Optimal Solution Services (Australia)
O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt
Overseas Security & Strategic Information, Inc (US)
PAE
Parasec Strategic Concept (Hong Kong)
RamOPS Risk Management Group (US)
Sandline (UK)
Saracen International (South Africa)
Securicor Hong Kong
Shield Security (South Africa)
Special Project Service Ltd. (UK)
Strategic Consulting International (SCI)
Sumer International Security Iraq
The Steele Foundation
Triple Canopy Inc.
Vinnell Corporation (US) : A Northrop Grumman Company
Wade-Boyd and Associates LLC
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. That's a very informative list, thank you
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 08:48 PM by entanglement
:)

I'm especially interested in South African mercs and their long history of 'privateering' and what I've read so far isn't pleasant. They committed numerous atrocities during the Apartheid regime and many of them escaped justice. Some of these mercs are currently operating in Iraq and have been accused of numerous crimes, including drive-by shootings of innocent Iraqis. It's a shame they aren't facing trials for crimes against humanity.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sen. Dorgan speaks about KBR
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 07:07 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gox6YB56cJ8


DEMOCRATIC POLICY COMMITTEE HEARINGS -- (Senate - September 19, 2006)


GPO's PDF
--- Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, I commend my colleague, Senator Dorgan of North Dakota, for a hearing he held yesterday. It was a hearing of the Democratic Policy Conference. This is the 10th hearing he has held. I attended with several other Senators. The hearings are held on Monday because they cannot be held during the ordinary course of business of the Senate.

The reason, I am afraid, is very clear. Senator Dorgan is considering an issue which no other committee in Congress will consider. Senator Dorgan is raising questions which no other committee on Capitol Hill will even suggest. Senator Dorgan and the Democratic Policy Conference are calling witnesses to testify openly on issues which the majority in this Republican-led Congress will not even consider. What could that possibly be? It turns out to be the conduct of our war in Iraq and, particularly, the waste and mismanagement of Federal tax dollars.

Yesterday, there were several former employees of Halliburton. We all know them now; they are infamous. This is the company with the no-bid contracts--$7 billion worth--and friends in high places all over this administration. This is the company which made millions of dollars off of taxpayer funds and, sadly, often at the expense of our soldiers.

Yesterday, the testimony was very clear. There was one witness who talked about this fitness center that was put up for our troops and an Internet center for our troops, and Halliburton was going to run it. It turns out they dramatically inflated the number of soldiers walking through the door so they could make more money on the center, ripping off the taxpayers. It turns out that the supplies they were given for our troops, Halliburton ended up consuming for their own employees, having Super Bowl parties, using the food and drink that had been prepared for our troops.

One of the witnesses yesterday said there was a certain arrogance of the Halliburton contractors when it came to our troops. They were annoyed when the soldiers asked for certain things. It was all about profit. It was all about them.

Why in the world hasn't a single committee in the Senate called Halliburton in to answer for these things? Because Halliburton has friends in high places. People don't ask these rude and embarrassing questions of this powerful special interest corporation.

I thank Senator Dorgan and the Democratic Policy Conference for continuing to bring in the whistleblowers. One would think there would be a Member of the Republican Senate embarrassed enough at Halliburton's conduct in this war in Iraq that they would join us in a bipartisan effort. Sadly, this do-nothing Republican Congress has been a coverup Republican Congress as well. They don't want to talk about it. They don't want to raise the questions.

Do you think the feature in the Washington Post this last Sunday would have invoked at least some response from the Republican chairmen of major committees in the Senate? It was an exposé. It showed that when we created this provisional authority in Iraq to create a civil society, it turned out to be a patronage operation, worse than Brown and FEMA when it came to Katrina.

What they did was screen employees who were headed over to Iraq to spend billions of dollars and ask them probing questions about their qualifications. And do you know what the questions were. Here are some of the questions: How did you vote in the last primary? Did you vote for President Bush? What is your position on the issue of abortion? Where do you stand in terms of the Republican Party of America?

These were the questions asked of people we sent over to manage billions of dollars, our taxpayers' dollars, and rebuild Iraq . Is it any wonder we are in the fourth year in a war with no end? Is it any wonder that Iraq today is still in shambles from the viewpoint of its civil government? Is it any wonder when one looks at this gross incompetence, the same type of incompetence, patronage, and favoritism we saw, sadly, with Hurricane Katrina when Americans were disadvantaged?

There was a time in the history of this great institution when no President could get by with what this administration is getting by with. There was a time when a Democratic Senate would challenge a Democratic President, when a man named Harry Truman would stand up and say: We are going to look at profiteering and waste in waging the war against the Nazis and those who are their allies, even if we have a Democratic President, even if it might embarrass him.

Sadly, those days are gone. This Congress stands mute. This Congress refuses to ask the hard questions of this administration. This Congress refuses to acknowledge the obvious. We have lost 2,686 American soldiers in Iraq , and over 20,000 have returned home seriously injured. We have spent over $325 billion. The scandalous conduct of contractors over there, deserving of investigation, has been made a matter of public record because of Senator Dorgan's hearings, and this administration and this Republican Congress refuse to ask the hard questions. Clearly, it is time for a change.

It is a time for new leadership that will ask these hard questions on behalf of our soldiers and our taxpayers.

Mr. President, I yield the floor.

The ACTING PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from North Dakota.

Mr. DORGAN. Mr. President, how much time remains?

The ACTING PRESIDENT pro tempore. Five minutes.

Mr. DORGAN. Mr. President, I thank my colleague from Illinois. I appreciate him attending the hearing yesterday. As he indicated, we would prefer not to do oversight hearings. That is a job for

GPO's PDFother committees. But because they have not done it, we have a responsibility to do them, and will.
We have done 10 oversight hearings with respect to contracting in Iraq . I am convinced the stories we have heard at these hearings undermine our American soldiers, undermine our troops, and cheat our taxpayers. I don't, for the life of me, understand why there is not aggressive activity in this Chamber and at the Pentagon to root out the waste, fraud, and abuse we have seen. It is almost as if there is a sleepwalk going on through these issues.

I have held hearings, and we have described all of the issues. Yesterday, a woman who worked for Halliburton went to Halliburton and said: What is happening is Halliburton is billing, in some cases, five times the amount they should be billing to the Federal Government for certain activities in Iraq .

For complaining to her superiors about the taxpayers being cheated by this contractor, she was put under guard by four civilians working for Halliburton, kept overnight, put on an airplane, fired, and shipped out of Iraq . That is what she got for being a whistleblower to talk about how the taxpayers were being cheated.

I am going to speak more about those issues this week with respect to all the hearings I have held. It is not for the purpose of injuring anybody. It is for the purpose of protecting our troops and our taxpayers.

Briefly, I want to describe something I am going to send over to the inspector general of the Defense Department today. This is a letter that was given to us yesterday at the hearing. It is a letter from Halliburton--Kellogg, Brown and Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. It is from

Mr. Standard, a civilian contract employee who was a truckdriver in Iraq who was wounded.

By the way, Halliburton hires these contract civilian employees through their subsidiary in the Cayman Islands. Why do they have a subsidiary in the Cayman Islands? That is a tax haven country. They get American contracts from our Government and run them through the Cayman Islands so they don't have to pay taxes.

This is from Mr. Standard, a truckdriver wounded in Iraq driving a convoy as a civilian contract employee for Halliburton. Here is what Halliburton has written to this truckdriver:


I hope this finds you well and enjoying a swift recovery. Per our conversation today, I included the medical records release form. This form authorizes me to share your medical records with the Pentagon Review Board for the purpose of awarding you the Secretary's Defense of Freedom Medal.


Halliburton is saying to the truckdriver: We would like you to sign a release so that we, Halliburton, can send information on your medical situation to the Defense Department and get you a Defense medal for the Defense of Freedom.

Here is what they said to this wounded truckdriver, an employee of their subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root: Authorization and release reform, use and disclosure of protected information. It is a lengthy form. The truckdriver who signed this said: I am going to allow you to turn my medical records over to the Defense Department. And then under section 9, it says:


Release: I agree that in consideration for the application for a Defense of Freedom Medal on my behalf that on behalf of myself, my hires, executors, administrators, assigns, and successors, I hereby release, acquit and discharge and do hereby release, acquit and discharge KBR, all KBR employees, the military, and any of their representatives, collectively and individually, with respect to any claims and any and all causes of action of any kind or character, known or unknown, that I may have against any of them.


What they have said to the employee in a deceitful way, in my judgment, is: We would like you to sign a medical release form so we can apply for a Defense Medal of Freedom for you. First, there is no such thing as being able to apply for a Defense Medal of Freedom. You are either entitled to it or you are not.

In any event, they are saying to the truckdriver, buried in No. 9, in exchange for that, you should assign away all your rights against this company or any actions of the company or any employee of the company.

This is unbelievably deceptive. Here is a company, Halliburton, saying to a truckdriver that was wounded, an employee of theirs--by the way, the testimony yesterday by other truckdrivers who were wounded in action is that Halliburton knew they sent a convey right into hostile action on a road that was marked red and black, which meant no travel by a civilian convey. They deliberately sent them onto that road anyway. Seven people were killed in that circumstance.

Aside from all of that--and that is important in itself--this company has written to its former employee, a wounded truckdriver, saying: We would like to send your medical records to the Pentagon, and we would like to get for you this Defense of Freedom Medal. So would you please sign this--not pointing out to him that he is signing away all of his rights to take action against that company or anybody in that company.

I have the standards of the Defense Medal of Freedom right here. Let me show the date. It is in 2001:


Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld announced today the creation of the Defense of Freedom Medal to honor civilian employees of the Department of Defense injured or killed in the line of duty. It will be the civilian equivalent of the military's Purple Heart. The first recipients to be honored will be the Defense Department civilians injured or killed recently as a result of the terrorist attack on the Pentagon. At the discretion of the Secretary of Defense, the medal may be awarded to nondefense employees, such as contractors, based on their involvement in Department of Defense activities.


This is unbelievably deceptive, and I believe deceitful, to try to persuade a former employee of this company to sign a release form saying it is a release of medical records when, in fact, it is a release of much more.

I am going to ask the inspector general to investigate exactly what this contractor has done.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Currently reading Sen Dorgan's book
Take This Job and Ship It: How Corporate Greed and Brain-Dead Politics Are Selling Out America
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/031235522X/ref=s9_asin_title_2/102-8825233-6536149



I am much impressed with his book. Excellent for all to read.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
14.  "it's misguided luxury … somebody's risking their lives to deliver that luxury."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/

FRONTLINE visits the biggest Halliburton/KBR run base, Camp Anaconda, in the Sunni triangle. Behind concrete walls 28,000 soldiers and 8,000 civilians live in bases that offer Taekwondo and Salsa lessons, movie theatres, fast food courts, and four meals a day. The amenities are impressive, but some argue that there is a price to pay. Says a former base commander Marine Colonel Thomas X. Hammes, "it's misguided luxury … somebody's risking their lives to deliver that luxury."

And while KBR was glad to provide Smith with a tour of the facilities, they weren't able or willing to answer some basic questions about how much certain services -- like feeding the troops -- cost. Smith eventually finds some answers from the Army base commander, but numerous audits are underway to determine just how the contracts are being fulfilled. In response to allegations of overcharging in the tens of millions of dollars, KBR's Vice President of Worldwide Military Affairs, Paul Cerjan says, "the only thing we can do is stand up and give a true and honest evaluation of what we've done. … And let whoever is making the assessment make the assessment. We are not afraid of that process."

"Private Warriors" also explores a very different kind of contractor -- the private world of security teams that work for firms like Blackwater, Aegis, and Erinys. They provide armed protection for U.S. government officials, government offices, military installations and even military commanders.

"The Pentagon's increasing reliance on outsourcing military functions raises important questions about accountability and the chain of command," says Smith. Through conversations with top military commanders, policy planners, military experts, and contractors, "Private Warriors" explores some of the dangers in bringing in the private sector to prosecute the war.

Warns George Washington University Professor Steve Schooner, an expert on military contracting, "We have tens of thousands of armed contractors in Iraq defending the Green Zone, defending the military, defending contractors… But they're not part of the military command structure." Schooner suggests there can be trouble when private contractors carry weapons and have tactical responsibilities yet aren't getting the same information or direction. Peter Singer, a fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of "Corporate Warriors" agrees: "There's a bubbling resentment … and you're starting to sense a backlash from the military."

Smith obtains unusual access to Erinys, a British private security company. They have been charged with protecting the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and are paid $50 million a year for the task. Erinys is staffed with an assortment of ex-Special Forces and policemen from around the world. A private security guard at Erinys makes approximately $400 dollars a day, twice what a soldier makes. Some guards make up to $1000 a day. While some see these men as hired guns, they do not view themselves that way. They say they are just men with more expertise than the military when it comes to protection. If Andy Melville, a project manager with Erinys in Iraq is correct, private warriors could become more prevalent in Iraq.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. Not nearly enough.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not this shit again...
:eyes:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. and just what shit are you referring to?
could you be a bit more specific, please?
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Yes could you please be more descriptive and specify which "shit" in particular.
color? texture? appearance?
:evilgrin:

Just an excuse to kick, that's all.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
28. ugh
private armies---coming to a neighborhood near you!
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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
29. a sobering statistic
There is a docu on Iraq mercenaries called Shadow Company
I highly recommend it as a general introduction to the whole
situation
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0762133/
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 07:05 PM
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30. DOGS OF WAR = BLOOD MONEY
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