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It's Bush v. Congress- This is the fight Bush wants

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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 12:23 AM
Original message
It's Bush v. Congress- This is the fight Bush wants
It seems that he refuses to accept his loss of power due to the elections and is challenging the new congress right from the start.

It's clear that the Dems first point of business and why they were elected was to deal with Iraq and bring this catastrophe to a close.

He wants escalation, they (the dems) supposedly want to stop the lunacy. If the dems cave on this they will be weakened severley since he will be getting exactly what he wants as usual.

The Dems MUST STOP this escalation.
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wish the Democrats would take a few pages out of the Republican Handbook...
...specifically the "take no prisoners" mentality. The American people elected the Democratic Party the majority in both the House and Senate precisely to stand up against Bush. If they fail in this then the Democratic Party might as well dissolve - there is no use for them. I would not blame a single individual who would not want to vote for a Democrat ever again. They would be completely justified.

Right now, I am getting some mixed messages, but I am being optimistic and hopeful, but past experience with the party has also made me very pessimistic and doubtful. Therefore, I have adopted a "wait and see" approach, where I just hope for the best.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The bottom line is that Dems were elected to scale down troops
and they will be part of delivering the complete opposite. This is not a good thing and I hope they step up to the plate and take some serious measures.

Bush has this thing going, like 'give me one more chance'. He is playing with soldier lives here...we don't even know why we are there in the first place.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bush vs. United States
Coming soon to a Supreme Court near all of us. Stay tuned.

Our camp:

Breyer
Souter
Ginsberg
Stevens

Swing votes:
Kennedy
Roberts

Their Camp:
Scalia
Alito
Thomas

I predict 5-4, with Kennedy flipping.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. do you want to lose in Iraq??
I got hit with that from resident bush-supporter at work

my response:

first - 20,000 more troops aren't going to make much of a difference. The problem is not military, it's political and social. You can't beat-up people to make them accept a democracy. If we want to win in Iraq - we need to work on the politics of the country, forge cooperation between the different factions and religious sects. We need to to gain the confidence and trust of the people on the street - this means getting water/power and other infrastructure in place.

second - it's time to shit or get off the pot. either we're going to stabilize the country or not. from what I've seen of bush's plan, the only thing he's doing is farting on the pot and claiming he had a bowel movement.

He's hoping to keep farting long enough to survive the remainder of his presidency and then turn the whole stinking mess over to someone else.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Another question to ask is would 500,000 additional troops
win in Iraq? Maybe 'till we left and when would that be?
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Hell, it was lost years ago, have they seen the great scoreboard in the sky?
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Send him/her an enlistment form
All those gas bags who support this war, time to enlist or shut the hell up.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. No I did not want to lose in Iraq
We lost though the minute we invaded against International Law...It is not a matter of losing now or in some future time. We already lost.. The world knows it, the only ones that don't know it are part of the GOP Cult.....
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Teddy Kennedy is ready for them n/t
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. Congress needs to inform Bush and the press that they had 4 years
to win this Iraqi war and LOST!
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Common knowledge say you can't win a war without national
support. Bush has no right to roll the dice for his legacy on the backs of our soldiers.
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. The Dems in Congress are looking for political "cover".
Might I be so bold as to suggest that with 12% wanting more troops and 61% thinking that Bush is doing a poor job in Iraq that


THEY HAVE ALL THE DAMN COVER THEY NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!


De-fund the war, end it, get it over with now, and as to a possible Constitutional Crisis over that:


BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



(I apologize for the yelling.......second cup of coffee just kicked in)
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Playing It Smart...
First of all, if boooshie wants to send 20 or 50 or 100,000 more troops he can and there's little Congress can do in the short term. There's money that can be moved around, executive orders can easily be signed and the deed is done. Any attempts by the Congress will be met as a violation of "seperation of powers" and end up in court for weeks or months...in the meanwhile boooshie gets to play war monger. Either way he wins...that's why Democrats have to realize the game and then play it smart. Some here are seeing it, many aren't.

Boooshie's offensive is doomed to failure in any form he plans to persue it. Other than the robots at the American Enterprise Institute, there's few others who believe either Iraq is "winnable" or that there will be any positive long-lasting results from this invasion. But booshie's determined to ride this invasion out until he's dragged out of the White House and this escalation is his game of chicken with both the Congress and the American people.

The call for a "Sense of the House" or "Senate" resolution doesn't take much...can happen real quick and one of the few steps they can take. Lets get all the Repugnicans on the record NOW where they stand on this escalation. Are they in favor? I'm sure their constituents...especially the nearly 90% who don't agree with this "surge"...would love to know it.

Sadly, again, booshie will gladly watch the blood of our young people...along with that of thousands of innocent Iraqis...go flowing down the drain in his own vain-glorious attempt to play emperor. He's like a caged tiger now...lashing out in all directions. He's gonna show them "insurgents", he's gonna show us "libruls", he's gonna show the "librul media", he's gonna show Poppy and so on and so on. While booshie doesn't care, his party still does. They're the one who need to pay over and over again for this regime and its largess.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. congress can do more than tighten the purse strings
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. The GOOP Is Spoiling For That Card
A major part of this kibuke death-theater by booshie is his need to play to his base. He's lost us...and then the "moderates" and Independents. In essence we don't even exist to this oxygen thief. The game he's playing with this is within his own corrupt and conflicted party. His approval has dropped from 85% to under 50% in his own party and this is where the "surge" is being played out.

As the asshat can't be re-elected and really doesn't care who cleans up his mess after he's gone, he's in the home stretch of the plunder and needs to maintain his invasion at all costs so he and his cabal can steal away and not be held accountable. This means keeping enough Repugnicans on board and turning up the media propaganda machine that attempts to create cover while this boy's war of profit goes on.

Yes, enacting a War Powers resolution would work, but not for several months down the road. Enacting it immediately would surely give this regime a PR card to play Democrats as not "supporting the troops" and weak on defense and the corporate media would play it up as so. The cutting of funding has to been weened along as Senator Kennedy pointed out yesterday and as future events dictate.

The closer we get to 2008, the more pressure can be put on the Repugnicans to examine the blood on their hands. Some are squeemish now...but not enough. There's still a segement that is playing this bullshit "withdrawl is weakness" card and haven't been discredited yet. If I hear another AEI ragmop spam a cable talk show, I'll start throwing things at the set. Boooshie's macho has to become a liability in his own hive so that Democrats can finally peel away enough votes in the months ahead to start reining in this regime.

In essence, let booshie dig his grave here. While 90% of Democrats know this is a failed and tragic policy, he still hasn't been totally discredited by his own...when this "surge" fails miserably, the last parts of his support in the Repugnican party will strip away.

This could create the rift that tears the GOOP into several parts, including some who already are bolting to the Liberatarians and could be a surprise third party challenge in 2008.

Cheers...

:toast:
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Number of things the Dems can do
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 07:53 AM by maine_raptor
First off, a "Sense of the House"/"Sense of the Senate" resolution is a good first step. Get the R's on record.

Second, Congress should pass a resolution saying that since the conditions set forth in the Iraq War Resolution no longer exist, it is "null and void". Get that damn thing out of the way!

Third, Congress then passes a resolution saying that from here on funding and support for the war will continue until a new set of rules.

Forth, Congress than passes a resolution similar to that passed in 1973 (just change the word "Vietnam" to "Iraq") and limit where the money can be spent.

Fifth, Congress passes a resolution cutting off the funds by date certain.

In the meanwhile, Congress continues to hold all those many lovely investigations. :evilgrin:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. Good point..
at the same time he is instigating a fight with Congress, he talks "bi-partisanship" out of his other face...
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