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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:37 AM
Original message
Sibel Edmonds & the Neocon Turkish Gravy-Train
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 11:45 AM by lukery
Sibel Edmonds recently wrote a fantastic White Paper called " The Highjacking of a Nation- Part 2: The Auctioning of Former Statesmen & Dime a Dozen Generals" which basically laid out the facts of her case for all to see.

In a chapter titled "The Real Lords of the Poppy Fields" she noted that
    1. most of Afghanistan's heroin & opium is processed and trafficked through Turkey
    2. "Heroin trafficking is also the main source of funding for the al-Qaeda terrorists "
    3. Turkey is a haven for (Al Qaeda’s) sources of funding.


Sibel then notes that
"It is puzzling to observe that in reporting this major artery (Turkey) of terrorists’ funding, the U.S. mainstream media and political machine do not dare to go beyond the poppy fields of Afghanistan and the fairly insignificant low level Afghan warlords overseeing the crops."



I was therefore curious to see how the World Bank's recent comprehensive 228 page report "Afghanistan's Drug Industry: Structure, Functioning, Dynamics, and Implications for Counter-Narcotics Policy" would deal with Turkey's role - particularly given that World Bank chief Paul Wolfowitz and most of the other neocons have substantial financial incentives for supporting Turkey.

You probably won't be surprised to learn that the dog didn't bark. Again.

Let's have a closer look at the title of the World Bank report: "Afghanistan's Drug Industry: Structure, Functioning, Dynamics, and Implications for Counter-Narcotics Policy"

Note that this isn't a report 'about Afghanistan' - but about the INDUSTRY - and given that Afghanistan supplies 90% of the global heroin market, we might expect to read in the report at least something about the major purchasers of Afghani product.We might even expect to learn something about the major traffickers. We might even expect to learn something about the major trafficking routes. Right?

In fact, the title of the report promises to look at the "Structure, Functioning, Dynamics, and Implications for Counter-Narcotics Policy" - and the report does pretend to cover many of these issues, using fancy terms like 'value chain analysis,' 'vertical price structure' and 'price
margins at different stages' and so on - all the things that you'd expect to find in an industry analysis. However, the analysis is conducted primarily (with some notable, and telling, exceptions) on an 'in-country' basis - which is essentially meaningless for analysing a global industry. This World Bank report is akin to an attempt to understand the global soft-drink market by looking really, really closely at the logistics around Atlanta - and as Sibel suggests, the 'frame of reference' of this report is unlikely to be an accident, and is most likely an intentional attempt to whitewash Turkey's role in the heroin industry.

According to the State Deparment's Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs' 2006 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, Turkey is a key player in this industry:
Turkey

I. Summary.

Turkey is a major transit route for Southwest Asian opiates to Europe, and serves as a base and refining center for major narcotics traffickers and brokers.... While most of the heroin trafficked via Turkey is marketed in Western Europe, an increasing amount of heroin and opium also is smuggled from Turkey to the U.S., but not in quantities sufficient to have a significant impact on the U.S.

II. Status of Country

Turkey is a major transshipment point. Turkey is also a base of operations for international narcotics traffickers and associates trafficking in opium, morphine base, heroin, precursor chemicals and other drugs. The majority of these opiates originate in Afghanistan, and are ultimately trafficked to Western Europe. A smaller but still not insignificant amount of heroin is trafficked to the U.S. via Turkey... Turkish authorities continue to seize large amounts of heroin and precursor chemicals, such as acetic anhydride. It is estimated that multi-ton amounts of heroin are smuggled through Turkey each month. Some heroin is still being refined in Turkey.



Drug Flow/Transit. Turkey remains a major route, refining center and storage, production and staging area, for the flow of heroin to Europe. Turkish-based traffickers and brokers operate in conjunction with narcotics smugglers, laboratory operators, and money launderers in and outside Turkey. They finance and control the smuggling of opiates to and from Turkey. Afghanistan is the source of most of the opiates reaching Turkey. Morphine and heroin base are smuggled overland from Afghanistan and Pakistan via Iran. Opiates and hashish also are smuggled to Turkey overland from Afghanistan via Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, and Georgia. Traffickers in Turkey illegally acquire the heroin precursor chemical, acetic anhydride, from sources in Western Europe, the Balkans and Russia. For fiscal year 2004, 2,304 liters of acetic anhydride were seized in, or destined for, Turkey. Some criminal elements in Turkey reportedly have interests in heroin laboratories operating near the Iranian-Turkish border in Iran. Turkish-based traffickers control much of the heroin marketed to Western Europe.

That's quite straightforward - Turkey is a key player up and down the value chain - yet the comprehensive 228 page report from Paul Wolfowitz' World Bank essentially ignores Turkey's role using various mechanisms of sophistry and mendacity - just as Sibel predicted.

At least three quarters of all heroin sold in Western Europe comes from Turkey - 4 to 6 tons every month - yet the World Bank report mentions Turkey exactly... once!

Here's the reference, in all it's glory:
The large dealers in both Lashkar Gah city and Kandahar claimed that they deal directly with buyers in Pakistan, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

That single reference to Turkey is all that the report could muster.

Why would Wolfowitz want to erase any mention of Turkey from his report?

Sibel says:
It is puzzling to observe that in reporting this major artery (Turkey) of terrorists’ funding, the U.S. mainstream media and political machine do not dare to go beyond the poppy fields of Afghanistan and the fairly insignificant low level Afghan warlords overseeing the crops. Think about it; we are talking about nearly $40 billion worth of products in the final stage. Do you believe that those primitive Afghan warlords, clad in shalvars, sporting long ragged beards, and walking with long sticks handle transportation, lab processing, more transportation, distribution, and sophisticated laundering of the proceeds? If yes, then think again. This multi billion-dollar industry requires highly sophisticated networks and people. So, who are the real lords of Afghanistan’s poppy fields?



Since the 1950s Turkey has played a key role in channeling into Europe and the U.S. heroin produced in the "Golden Triangle" comprised of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. These operations are run by mafia groups closely controlled by the MIT (Turkish Intelligence Agency) and the military. According to statistics compiled in 1998, Turkey’s heroin trafficking brought in $25 billion in 1995 and $37.5 billion in 1996. That amount makes up nearly a quarter of Turkey’s GDP. Only criminal networks working in close cooperation with the police and the army could possibly organize trafficking on such a scale. The Turkish government, MIT and the Turkish military, not only sanctions, but also actively participates in and oversees the narcotics activities and networks.



We know that Al Qaeda and Taliban’s main source of funding is the illegal sale of narcotics. Based on all the reports, facts, and expert statements, we know that Turkey is a major, if not the top, player in the transportation, processing, and distribution of all the narcotics derived from the Afghan poppies, and as a result, it is the major contributing country to Al Qaeda. Yet, to date, more than five years into our over exhaustive ‘war on terror' propaganda, have we heard any mentioning of, any tough message to, any sanction against, or any threat that was issued and targeted at Turkey?

In other words, the Turkish 'Deep State' - which includes the Turkish government, mafia-types, terrorist types (including al-Qaeda), the Turkish military and the Turkish Intelligence Agency - are major players in the highly-profitable heroin trafficking business. These same Deep-State players are also in a key position to profit from military sales - and have 'co-opted' a bunch of neocons, congressmen, former congressmen, lobbyists, and 'dime-a-dozen generals' in the US.

Phil Giraldi carries the story a little further:
Turkey benefits from the relationship (with Israel & US) by securing general benevolence and increased aid from the US Congress - as well as access to otherwise unattainable military technology. The Turkish General Staff has a particular interest because much of the military spending is channeled through companies in which the generals have a financial stake, making for a very cozy and comfortable business arrangement. The commercial interest has also fostered close political ties, with the American Turkish Council, American Turkish Cultural Alliance and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations all developing warm relationships with AIPAC and other Jewish and Israel advocacy groups throughout the US.

Someone has to be in the middle to keep the happy affair going, so enter the neocons, intent on securing Israel against all comers and also keen to turn a dollar. In fact the neocons seem to have a deep and abiding interest in Turkey, which, under other circumstances, might be difficult to explain. Doug Feith's International Advisors Inc, a registered agent for Turkey in 1989 - 1994, netted $600,000 per year from Turkey, with Richard Perle taking $48,000 annually as a consultant. Other noted neoconservatives linked to Turkey are former State Department number three, Marc Grossman, current Pentagon Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Eric Edelman, Paul Wolfowitz and former congressman Stephen Solarz. The money involved does not appear to come from the Turkish government, and FBI investigators are trying to determine its source and how it is distributed. Some of it may come from criminal activity, possibly drug trafficking, but much more might come from arms dealing. Contracts in the hundreds of millions, or even billions of dollars provide considerable fat for those well placed to benefit.

Investigators are also looking at Israel's particular expertise in the illegal sale of US military technology to countries like China and India. Fraudulent end-user certificates produced by Defense Ministries in Israel and Turkey are all that is needed to divert military technology to other, less benign, consumers. The military-industrial-complex/neocon network is also well attested. Doug Feith has been associated with Northrup Grumman for years, while defense contractors fund many neocon-linked think tanks and "information" services. Feith, Perle and a number of other neocons have long had beneficial relationships with various Israeli defense contractors.

It appears that Mr Wolfowitz is interested in maintaining the neocon Turkish-gravy train. As Giraldi notes, the source of the gravy is apparently part heroin trafficking, part Military- Industrial- Complex (MIC). In fact, it might be difficult to disentangle these two sources of gravy - Turkey receives billions of dollars in military aid every year from the US, and the Turkish military and intelligence services "actively participates in and oversees the narcotics activities."

Wolfowitz, of course, has strong ties to many of the neocons who are directly on Turkey's payroll. He first teamed up with Richard Perle in 1969 to sell the antiballistic missile (ABM) system to Congress, before Wolfowitz joined Perle in Scoop Jackson's office in the 70s.

Both Wolfowitz and Feith have previously worked at MIC giant, Northrop Grumman.
When Wolfowitz was appointed Deputy Secretary at DoD in 2001, he convinced Rumsfeld to appoint Douglas Feith as Undersecretary for Policy (a position that Wolfowitz himself held from 1989-93), and then installed Feith as the head of the Office of Special Plans. (Perle & Feith have been working together since 1982)

Perle, Wolfowitz and Feith have all been investigated for leaking classified information to Israel - primarily to assist defense contractors in illegal arms sales. Perle's first foray was in 1969, Feith's was in 1972, and Wolfowitz' in 1978.

In fact, Perle, Wolfowitz and Feith (and other neocons such as Ledeen and Stephen Bryen ) appear to have made 'secondary' careers out of trying to either eliminate arms controls treaties (e.g. Feith), or finding legal and other ways of circumventing export restrictions - such as by using fraudulent end-user certificates, or simply lying to Congress to ensure that the military sales continue as they did with Pakistan in Richard Barlow's case

Curiously, this behaviour of the neocons - selling weapons to Pakistan, China and other 'enemy' countries - appears to run counter to the purported neocon goal of maintaining and extending American military supremacy. However, their actions always appear to dovetail quite closely with the desires of their MIC paymasters.



How does the report manage to ignore Turkey?

One trick used in the report is to simply ring-fence the analysis at Afghanistan's borders (and only selected borders at that) - for example, we learn that:
The border price for opium... was estimated as follows :
* estimated share of opium going to Iran: around 90 %
* estimates share of opium going to Pakistan: 6 %
* estimated share of opium going to Tajikistan: 4 %

The border price for heroin... is calculated as follows:
* estimated share of heroin going to Iran: 30 %
* estimated share of heroin going first to Pakistan (much of it onward to Iran): 50 %
* estimated share of heroin going to Tajikistan: 20 %

This is remarkable for a number of reasons.

Firstly, note that it's OK for the report to mention that the export of heroin to Pakistan is merely in transit to Iran, but apparently it's not OK to mention that the product in Iran is merely on it's way to safe-haven in Turkey where it will move into the 'industrialisation' phase to be processed and stored and prepared for mass export with the help of NATO in Belgium, and the Turkish Consulates in England, in Chicago, and elsewhere.

Again, from the State Department's own International Narcotics Control Strategy Report
A large share of the opiates smuggled into Iran from Afghanistan is smuggled to neighboring countries for further processing and transportation to Europe. Turkey is the main processing destination for these opiates, most of which are bound for consumption in Russia and Europe. Essentially all of the morphine base... in Iran, is likely moving towards Turkey...

Secondly, it's interesting that the World Bank report has 100% of the heroin being exported through Iran, Pakistan and Tajikistan. There's no mention of Uzbekistan, or Turkmenistan - which "are vital transit countries" according to Interpol. In fact, Sibel says that much of the heroin travels to Turkey from Afghanistan through the Central Asian states (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan).

Another handy trick that the report uses to sidestep the issue of Turkey's involvement is to magically put most of the 'value chain' in a black box - whereby all transactions and 'value capture' between Afghanistan's borders and the wholesale level in the destination country are opaque.
IV. THE VERTICAL STRUCTURE OF OPIATE PRICES
Opium and its products dramatically increase in price along the "value chain" from
raw opium produced on rural farms in Afghanistan to local markets, wholesale trade, processing into heroin or morphine, trade in neighboring countries, transit to distant consuming countries, and ultimately wholesale and retail prices in these countries. The "vertical" structure of prices can provide clues about how the drug industry is organized and its evolution over time...

Vertical Price Structure
Although price data are relatively weak for the parts of the opium "value chain" after the farm-gate level and before reaching prices in distant consuming countries, it is possible to piece together a rough picture of the vertical price structure and in particular the price margins at different stages...

Indeed - a lot of that information would be very helpful. The price margins at each stage would demonstrate the obscene profits of 'The Real Lords of the Poppy Fields' - those who control the value-chain steps between the 'price takers' at the farm gate and those who supply the street dealers. But if the World Bank included that information in their report, they'd have to shine a light on Wolfowitz' friends in Turkey. We can't have that, of course, so instead we get 'analysis' which ignores all of the value-adding activity conducted in places like Turkey. For example:



Notice how the 7000% mark-up in between the first two steps is simply ignored - it almost appears to be a wilfull omission.


The report does acknowledge, in passing, that there might be some 'high pay-offs' in looking at the major players in between the farmers and retail end dealers - before deciding not to look at the major players:
The value chain for opium/opiates, while anchored in price-taking behavior at either end, appears to involve much more active price setting in the middle stages, where flexible adjustments to shocks (including law enforcement shocks) appear to be the norm. This is not surprising in view of the very large profit margins and relatively smaller number of actors at these stages. It would appear that, however difficult, attacking and disrupting the more secretive and concentrated middle stages of the value chain could have high pay-offs.

Of course, these 'middle stages' aren't really 'secretive' - and in fact are well known to both the UK and US governments (at least).

As Sibel notes:
In fact, our government would rather move heaven and earth, gag ‘whistleblowers’ with direct knowledge of these facts, classify congressional and other investigative reports, create a media black-out on these ‘allies’ terrorist supporting activities, than do the right thing; do what it really takes to counter terrorism.

And British journalist Adrian Gatton described the British awareness thusly:
The British authorities are well aware of Turkey’s role in the drugs trade. In a story I broke in The Guardian earlier this year, I explained how in the 1990s Baybasin told British Customs and Excise investigators about state collusion in the drugs trade. After initial meetings in London, according to a source, these two drug liaison officers – whose names are known to Druglink – later travelled regularly to Holland to meet Baybasin.

According to a witness statement given to an immigration case involving Baybasin’s family, Huseyin agreed to provide investigators with information about what he knew of the role of Turkish politicians and officials in the heroin trade. The contents of the discussions are not known in detail, but in a string of newspaper and TV interviews, he claimed he was assisted by Turkish officers working for NATO in Belgium. “The government kept all doors open for us,” he said. “We could do as we pleased.”



Discussions with such a vital ally about its heroin problem have been tricky. When, for example, in 1997, Tom Sackville, the then UK Home Office minister, accused the Turkish government of being neck-deep in the drugs trade, he got a stiff demarche from the Turkish embassy (Sackville was speaking off-the-cuff and not following government policy). Our Foreign Office, rather than backing the minister, vented its fury on his department for meddling in foreign affairs, according to a source familiar with the row.

Sackville’s foray aside, the British government’s reluctance to publicly condemn Turkey has frustrated investigators. We got a rare public glimpse of this when, in 2001, Chris Harrison, a senior Customs officer in Manchester, told veteran crime reporter Martin Short in his TV series Godfathers, that Customs could not get at the Turkish kingpins because they are “protected” at a high level.

Nonetheless, Wolfowitz' report on the "Structure, Functioning, Dynamics, and Implications for Counter-Narcotics Policy" somehow managed to ignore Turkey's role despite the fact that Turkey is integral to each of those components.

How odd.

I'll let Sibel have the last word:
Curiously enough, despite these highly publicized reports and acknowledgements of Turkey’s role in these activities, Turkey continues to receive billions of dollars of aid and assistance annually from the United States. With its highly placed co-conspirators and connections within the Pentagon, State Department and U.S. Congress, Turkey never has to fear potential sanctions or meaningful scrutiny; just like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. The criminal Turkish networks continue their global criminal activities right under the nose of their protector, the United States, and neither the catastrophe falling upon the U.S. on September Eleven, nor their direct and indirect role and ties to this terrorist attack, diminish their role and participation in the shady worlds of narcotics, money laundering and illegal arms transfer.


Sibel doesn't choose her words lightly.

Listen up.
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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is Turkey the Colombia of Central Asia?
Lukery,
Excellent post! If I am to read this right, the World Bank barely mentioning Turkey in a discussion of Afghan's heroin trade would be as if we had a discussion of coca leaves from Peru and Bolivia, but failed to point out that the Colombians controlled the refining and distribution? Does that sound about right?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. only if...
thats about right, randy - apart from it appears as though we know why Wolfowitz excluded Turkey... i havent heard anything about them controlling the coke supply from sth america. not yet, anyway.
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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. My Point Is...
...that Turkey is never discussed in the U.S. as a "narco state". Colombia, by contrast, is always associated with drug lords.

In the symposiums held by the American Turkish Council, the drug trade is never mentioned.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. MIC
you are right, of course.

if it was acknowledged that 25% of the GDP was heroin, and it was controlled by the Turkish establishment, then Congress might be tempted to turn off the spigot.

... and we can't have that.
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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. One Question I Have...
..is what is Al Qaeda's exact role in the heroin trade? How would Bin Laden provide value as opposed to the Taliban?

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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. afghanistan?
well - as you know, i think the definition of AlQaeda is kinda misleading - but it appears that 'AlQ' operate beyond afghanistan. Sibel says that they are also a major player in Turkey (in fact, if you look closely at what sibel says, it's difficult to separate AlQaeda from Turkey's Deep State (and also from the ATC))

In any case, here's Dan Ellsberg:
The major effect of that is that terrorist gangs are taking a cut of this, including Al Qaeda, which essentially taxes this traffic as it goes through the various lands where each 'band' pays a percentage as they hand it off. In other words, the US is in effect, endorsing - well, 'endorsing' is too strong a word - 'permitting', definitely permitting, or 'not acting against,' a heroin trade - which not only corrupts our cities and our city politics, AND our congress, as Sibel makes very specific - but is financing the terrorist organization that constitutes a genuine threat to us.

http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/10/ellsberg-haste...

If I'm not mistaken, the Taliban kinda stops at the Afghan borders, right?
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
43. A well connected post
Thanks for the post Lukery.

An excellent job of putting two & two together.

Would that responsible people in our government (if there are any left) might also read this and pay attention. Drug money corrupts everything.

I see that our friend Orrin_73 is active on this post - I still question his agenda, even more so now. "methinks he protesteth too much".
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. drug money
thanks ajeffersonian.

it'd be handy to know which cpngresscritters have NOT been corrupted by these folks - and try to get them to move forward on Sibel's case.

Orrin_73 does seem to have some curious concerns...
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. The obvious answer is
The Taliban, had significantly reduced the level of poppy production. They were anti-poppy. Since the fall of the Taliban, poppy production has, well, blossomed.

-Hoot
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. So you believe that 25% of Turkey's GDP is from drug trade?
Unf*ckingelievable???
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. small exaggeration
a "huge proportion" of 25% is drugs

"Dr Ertan Bese, of the Turkish National Police Academy, wrote in his 2004 doctoral thesis on Turkish organised crime, that the underworld economy of Turkey is worth $60bn, amounting to a massive 25 per cent of Turkey’s national income. A huge proportion of this figure is derived from heroin trafficking."
http://adriangatton.com/archive/1990_01_01_archive.html
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. He was discredited by Turkish academicians
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 01:29 PM by Orrin_73
at that time. Besides Turkeys GDP is some 600 billion dollars. He probably meant underground economy and not underworld, which is huge in Turkey every country has that.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. debunking?
do you have links to the debunking?

thnx
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. If you can read Turkish
I will provide it.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. i can't - but thanks n/t
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
61. I believe that there are some on this thread who can...
I know a little, but I belive there are some here that would know a lot.

Why don't you provide it to us and then perhaps someone can analyze it.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
68. Turkish Investigative Reporters
Last time I heard, they were all in jail; being tortured. Have you access? If yes, we'll find a way to get them translated...unless you are referring to the Tabloids (you know which ones I'm referring to; Turkish Main Media :-); if that's the case gracia; keep the info; We'll stick to Lukery's credible reports.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. What is the problem with the Turkish Main Media?
please explain?
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. Turkish Main Media
Remember the song, it started like this: 'where do I begin...'Check out CPJ (committee to Protect Journalists), NCAC (National COalition Against Censorship), Human Rights Watch...websites, search under 'Turkey & Freedom of press' or
Turkish Journalists & Torture,' etc. You'll get the picture.Of course they had some real good ones; investigative journalists that is; they either disappeared, were jailed & died under suspicious circumstances, a few escaped & got political asylum (here & there)...So the ones that operate are...hmmm you know, I can't 'really' read Turkish, but the color pictures (Front page) speak volume :-)

...so when you referred to reports in Turkish Language, I thought you meant you had access to those behind bars.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
92. Now you claim there is no independent media in Turkey?
Do you think Turkey is a communist or fascist state? sort of north korea.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
52. $600b & $5b
Then why are they hustling so hard & furious for a meager $5B US aid?! The luscious economy they've got, yet chronically dependent on IMF loans for...how many decades (Korea got the loans for its crisis only for a couple of years, and were back on their feet; Turkey's crisis has been going on for how many decades?)??

Talking about conspiracy theory! Are you saying that all these European governments, US agencies' reports, international organizations, and..., and..., and..., are anti-Turkey; conspiring against Turkey? Wow! If that's the case, get them move forward, stop begging for loans/military aid/economic aid/humanitarian aid...have them gather all the 'Stans' (since they've been trying)and say hooray to the Greater Independent Turkish Republic Empire :-)

Please CC us on that message; thank you & best regards.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
75. druglink
btw - I will note that Gatton's article was published in a recent edition of Druglink's magazine - a UK drug policy group. It would be wrong if they are using factually incorrect information.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:56 AM
Original message
in orange
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. A capitalist society can't keep us safe.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. i'm not sure anything can... n/t
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Any society that lends itself to graft is useless.
There was a time when we relied on "boy scouts" to do the right thing for the good of the country. But now we weed them out of the process.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. all societies?
it's difficult to imagine a world that doesnt lend itself to graft :-(
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. I can imagine it, just fine.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
110. it sure won't keep us free
Both the 'terrorists' and the corporatists are after our freedoms.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #110
113. Yep. We have to pay with our children's blood to keep the rich folk safe.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. wow, what an excellent analysis!
K&R!
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. cheers
thanks mike. writing about Sibel's story is easy - the posts just write themselves :-)
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rooney Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I am truly interested in what Sibel Edmonds has to say, A question
about this post and her book is this: She didn't work as a transcriber very long (I thought) so how could she have so much information?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. her book?
i'm not sure what you mean by her book?

you are correct that she didnt work there very long (approx 6 months) - however she translated documents going back to the mid-nineties. That is, the FBI field agents had a lot of suspicions about who was involved in a lot of this stuff, and so they asked her to go back to SPECIFIC documents/conversations and translate them again - and their suspicions were confirmed. In other words, she wasn't just translating some random stuff.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. She is trying to make some money from her lies
She seems to know everything, unfortunately people believe her.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. The problem is you don't explain how you KNOW they are lies!
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 06:49 PM by calipendence
If they were lies, why didn't the 9/11 commission or senators in both parties like Senator Leahy or Senator Grassley say she was lying? It would have been a lot more convenient for them to shut her down early if they had some clear examples of facts they could dismiss as "lies". Instead, they have employed a strategy of trying to find a way to have her conveniently silenced through creative legal means such as "State Secrets" privilege, as that still doesn't expose them as being liars themselves and yet finds a way to keep her story from getting out to us.

She doesn't claim to have ALL of the answers, as many whistleblowers now also haven't claimed to, since they all know pieces, but not necessarily the high level big picture. The strategy has been to silence them all and keeping them from comparing notes through excessive claims of secrecy on all of this information.

And I lived five years of my earlier life in Turkey too and grew up amongst many other Americans working there, and therefore am not ignorant of what's been going on there.

I think in the case of many issues like 9/11, etc. it's healthy not to KNOW what really happened, but it is equally healthy to be skeptical and point out the flaws in what is supposedly the "official truth" story too. Until we have real investigations that hopefully can weed out more concrete truths, we can't claim to know that other potential explanations are either "lies" or "truths".

If we really want truth before us, it's very unhealthy to claim that those that are trying to say something different from the official story are "liars". They are already much more out on a limb than offical story masters with their info.

Sibel for many years now has tried to avoid getting any profits from books, movies or other publications, as she doesn't want to get labeled as "profiting" from her efforts like those labeled folks like Richard Clarke have done. I believe her integrity and have not found any serious and credible reasons why I should doubt her credibility. If she is getting any money now, I believe it is to help her legal efforts to continue getting this story out in the open.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. So her claim that the entire Turkish establishment is
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 07:13 PM by Orrin_73
into drug trafficking is true? A nation of 70 million is ruled by drug barons, I mean come on you cant be this ignorant. That even people believe this nonse is beyond me.
Since when are Senators Leahy and Grassley experts on Turkey and the Turkish establishment. These kind of lies are being told by the armenian and greek lobbies in the US for years to discredit Turks.
Edmonds even claimed her uncle was a former mayor of Istanbul which also proved to me a lie, plus she said that her sister fled Turkey for fear of being killed????
How sure are you that she is not profitting financially from all this?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I have been a member of DU for more the 4 years now
Do you blame me for infiltrating DU for certain purposes? I dont have an agenda

There are certain claims made about my country, I just explain it and tell the truth.
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Your agenda
Where does your knowledge to be able to "explain it" come from. Where does your "truth" come from?

What I read here from Lukery re Sibel's articles is packed with references to numerous sources - unquestionably reliable. Where are your reliable sources?

Perhaps your use of "infiltrating" DU is a clue - after all - agents infiltrate, don't they?
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. There are claims made about some PEOPLE in your country, there IS a difference there!
Jsut like I don't take offense directly from others outside out country making well earned criticisms of Bush and other criminal elements of our government, I also feel it valid to criticize certain elements in other countries, and hopefully not have their people take exception if the criticisms are deserved. I have a lot of problems with what the Israeli government is doing, which is the homeland for all Jewish people, but I don't make a slap against all Israelis and Jews. Some of my FAVORITE politicians and activists are Jewish, like Russell Feingold and Stanley Sheinbaum (who I just gained more insight this last week into my own personal past and surroundings from too and have take an introspective look at it as a result). Then again, there's Lieberman. I judge everyone as individuals.

Now if your issue is that you don't like all of Turkey being labeled as bad, just because some elements of it are bad that she's pointing out now, I'm with you there. On the other hand, just like many of us have to stand up here ande YELL "Not in Our Name!" because our own country's name is being drug in the dirt here, I think it helps if more Turks do the same too. That will keep many out there from trying to label the whole country as bad because of these sorts of things, if there is some real introspection and questioning of what is happening in the Turkish government going on.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. During the prime ministership of
Tansu Ciller some cabinet ministers and she had friends with certain elements within the mob in Turkey. It was revealed during the susurluk crisis, the Turkish media, population and the army pressured them to leave politics. Since them many elemenst within the government have been removed, that was in 1990's. But todays Erdogan government has no relationships with dark figures of the Turkish underground.

PS: did you know that Tansu Ciller lived in the US in the 1970's it is claimed that she had a relationship with an american officer who now works for the CIA.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. susurluk
Aren't many of the susurluk crew still around? Agar etc
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. As far as I know he was never charged.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Do you KNOW it's not true? Why don't you point out to us why?
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 07:25 PM by calipendence
I believe that our own country has a large segment that is being ruled by criminals too, as I suspect that many in this country do now! Why can't I also believe that there's criminal elements in the Turkish government?

When you try to call someone a liar, then you have to prove two things, neither which I've seen here:
1) that their facts are incorrect.
2) that they knowingly misrepresented facts to put forth a false conclusion.

Even if some of her facts might be incorrect (perhaps the sources were wrong, or something like that), it still is a far jump to conclude that she's knowingly perpetuating incorrect information. What is her agenda if you think she is? What does she have to gain if she is?

Like I said, I'm trying to come halfway here, as I have a lot of Turkish friends, and have a lot of respect for many of them, and absolutely love going to Turkish restaurants when I get the chance to.

But I think one needs to really step back and instead of calling someone like her a liar, go forth and try to find other information that contradicts her claims here and present that instead of just calling her names. If you say that we still need to be skeptical because there is different information out there to the contrary, then I'll have respect for a position like that. But I don't respect you calling people in this thread a liar.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. How do you know that everything she tells about Turkey is true?
I repeat, her claim that the entire Turkish establishment are drugbarons. so the president, the prime minister, the entire cabinet, all mayors, all rich people in Turkey are someway connected to drug trafficking, is absurd.

And her claim that Turkey is funding OBL??? I mean where did she get that.
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. I believe it is your comment that is absurd
I have read nowhere in these posts that Sibel claims the "entire Turkish establishment are drugbarons". You obviously wish to exaggerate to try to make your point - instead of serving up some facts - which I have yet to see from you. Again I ask - what are your sources? Where does the information (that you fail to provide) backing up your claims come from?

Anyone can rant - not everyone can back up their ranting, can you?
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. As I said my sources are mostly Turkish newspapers
I see that edmonds has become a divine celebrity. Just like freepers, attack bush and they will attack you.
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #74
88. Divine Celebrity?
Now thats a cop out if I ever heard one. You can't back up your ranting, so now you revert to this.

No, she hasn't become a "divine celebrity", just someone courageous.

And, again, how is it that you "know" that what Sibel claims is not true?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
108. The drugs is just one aspect of it
It's how black ops are funded. They are as much drug traffickers as they are arms-dealers as they are war mongers - all for the purpose of maintaining and consolidating power. If a nation of 300 million can be ruled by political-corporate mobsters, why not a nation of 70 million?

And where does Sibel say that the "entire" Turkish establishment is involved?
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. So sibel edmonds is an expert on Turkey????
She is an Iranian who speaks Turkish, she is no Turk!!!
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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. What A Bunch of Baloney
She was born in Iran because her father was employed there.

Besides, where she was born or her nationality is irrelevant. What is relevant is what she heard on wiretaps.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Ofcourse, you really believe everything
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 01:01 PM by Orrin_73
she tells.
As a Turk I know that Turkey is sometimes used as a trafficking route for drugs, but what this woman says is absurd. To claim that the Turkish government, army and the secret service actively participating in drug trade is a big fat lie.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Sibel isn't the only one...
Sibel isn't the only one who says that the Turkish govt is involved:

Huseyin Baybasin, another Turkish heroin kingpin now in jail in Holland, who after Susurluk went public with revelations about state corruption, later explained his role in his book Trial by Fire: “I handled the drugs which came through the channel of the Turkish Consulate in England.” But as he adds: “I was with the Mafia but I was carrying this out with the same Mafia group in which the rulers of Turkey were part.”

The British authorities are well aware of Turkey’s role in the drugs trade. In a story I broke in The Guardian earlier this year, I explained how in the 1990s Baybasin told British Customs and Excise investigators about state collusion in the drugs trade. After initial meetings in London, according to a source, these two drug liaison officers – whose names are known to Druglink – later travelled regularly to Holland to meet Baybasin.

According to a witness statement given to an immigration case involving Baybasin’s family, Huseyin agreed to provide investigators with information about what he knew of the role of Turkish politicians and officials in the heroin trade. The contents of the discussions are not known in detail, but in a string of newspaper and TV interviews, he claimed he was assisted by Turkish officers working for NATO in Belgium. “The government kept all doors open for us,” he said. “We could do as we pleased.”


http://adriangatton.com/archive/1990_01_01_archive.html
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Huseyin Baybasin is drug kingpin, whatever he says should be
taken with a grain of salt. That was at the time of Tansu Ciller in 1995 but this is 2006. It still does not make sense whatever these people say.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. ok - how about British politicians?
here's adrian gatton again:

"Turkey is a NATO-member and a moderate Islamic country with a secular state. Discussions with such a vital ally about its heroin problem have been tricky. When, for example, in 1997, Tom Sackville, the then UK Home Office minister, accused the Turkish government of being neck-deep in the drugs trade, he got a stiff demarche from the Turkish embassy (Sackville was speaking off-the-cuff and not following government policy). Our Foreign Office, rather than backing the minister, vented its fury on his department for meddling in foreign affairs, according to a source familiar with the row.

Sackville’s foray aside, the British government’s reluctance to publicly condemn Turkey has frustrated investigators. We got a rare public glimpse of this when, in 2001, Chris Harrison, a senior Customs officer in Manchester, told veteran crime reporter Martin Short in his TV series Godfathers, that Customs could not get at the Turkish kingpins because they are “protected” at a high level."
http://adriangatton.com/archive/1990_01_01_archive.html
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Again it should be taken with a grain of salt.
It was during the consevative government 1990's in england. These kind of nonsense was uttered by politicians who were against Turkish entry in the eu. It is also parroted by some other euro politicians with the same mindset.
Besides that was during Tansu Ciller's government in Turkey, she is gone now!
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
109. but you unsubstantiated claims should be taken at face value?
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. Curious...
So are we going to take the same grain of salt with several past State Department reports, Interpol Reports,Euro-pol Reports...We'll need more than 'a grain;' how about a few pounds?
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. You mean they all claim that
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 07:14 PM by Orrin_73
Turkey is ruled by drug barons??
Get real!
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stansnark Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. i agree. turkish secret service involved would be like cia involved.
totally absurd.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. lol thnx. n/t
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. The Turkish secret service is not as advanced as the CIA
The Turkish secret service is an ineffective bureaucracy, harsly critisized in Turkey. It is seen as a money (tax) eating machine.
Did you know that the cia is modeled after the Ottoman secret service the "yildiz teskilati", now that was a secret service present Turkey should have.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. Look, I defend Turks amongst many other folks here including Armenians...
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 07:06 PM by calipendence
... like my office mate, because I think many get too much grief that they don't deserve.

However, just like I'm not going to turn a blind eye to what is likely much corruption and mafia-style organizations in the innards of OUR (The U.S.) government, and am active in places like here and other places to help fix it, I appreciate also many conscientious Turks that also want to clean up the bad elements of their government too. I do appreciate that it is a democracy, and I do appreciate that their politicians followed their country's wishes in staying out of this Iraq War too.

But what will get Turkey into the EU, and I'll help push Turkey into it if they do, is if there are more Turks that take an introspective look at where the flaws are in the Turkish government. I know it's been difficult as there are many different agendas from Armenian groups, Kurdish groups, etc. some of which are honorable, and some which want to try and unfairly go after Turkey too. Things like what is called the genocide are way too tricky probably to deal with appropriately in this post, as there's a lot of complexity and agendas going on with it.

But I think one can start at asking the Turkish government to be accountable to illegal drug and weapons trading, that I think needs to be questioned along with us questioning our own government here in similar activities for this stuff to really get cleaned up.
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. How do you know?
What are the sources of your knowledge that this is "a big fat lie"? Is it the Turkish government - or the army - or the secret service?
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. My sources are mostlly Turkish newspapers
most of them are independent.

read my other posts about her claims.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #58
79. A question
Which one of those Turkish newspapers do you usually read? I understand some are better than others; which ones do you read?
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
82. Most of Them?
Specifically which Turkish newspapers. And which are "independent" and which are not?

Which other posts are you referring to? Please repeat the specific posts & the source of the information in support of these posts, and whether the source is "independent" or not.

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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. What about Hurriyet, Milliyet
Radikal,Zaman ,sabah and many others. Why do you think these newspapers are not independent

www.gazeteler.com
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. She's an Iranian as much as I'm an Indonesian...
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 07:09 PM by calipendence
I was born there and only lived there for a few months before my folks moved back to the states.

And BTW, a couple of my best friends are naturalized American citizens from Iran too, who are even moreso introspective about their own former government, so even if she were Iranian I wouldn't use that as a reason to question her credibility either.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Her family is from Iran (south azerbaijan)
Azerbaijanis speak a Turkish dialect.
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. Interesting
I believe this is the first post I have read that mentions Azerbaijan - where did that bit of information come from?
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. I guess that revelation might show why she's "parotting Armenian claims"...

even if it is true... :)
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #47
64. iranian?
huh? I've always read that she is Turkish.

Why do you think she's Iranian/Azerbaijani?
(I know she speaks Farsi/Azeri)
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. look at this link
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 07:47 PM by Orrin_73
The daughter of an Azerbaijani doctor, Edmonds lived in Iran and then Turkey until coming to the United States as a student in 1988. She became an American citizen in 1996. In addition to English, Edmonds is fluent in Turkish, Farsi and Azeri. She earned her masters degree in public policy and international commerce from George Mason University, and her bachelors in criminal justice and psychology from George Washington University.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. So what nationality is her mother?...
... and is he a native citizen of Azerbaijan or naturalized. You don't have any details here.

And even if he and she were Azerbaijani, and you claim that that national heritage is what motivates her activiites, then why is what she says is so aligned up against Dennis Hastert, when Mr. Hastert had hired Nancy Dorn, one of the top lobbyists for Azerbaijan, as his foreign policy advisor?

http://sibeledmonds.blogspot.com/2006/10/perles-world.h...
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. In a interview with a Turkish newspaper
she said she was an azebaijani (ethnic Turk) from Iran and that she has lived some years in Istanbul where her father was a doctor.
I have no information about Hasterts ties with the azerbaijani's.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
100. So, Orrin_73, what is Sibel's motivation?
To be gagged by certain members of our government? What would she get out of making things up? And if she was, wouldn't she be easy to debunk instead of gag?
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #76
114. I appreciate your skepticism, Orrin
I regularly offer skepticism and alternative views around here are I am very used to being dog-piled as a consequence.

But in this case, the original post is based on information and opinions from people who have had high-level access to relevant information and journalists who have followed this issue for years. And frankly, if you want to counter that credibly, you're going to need more than: "I'm from Turkey and I read the newspaper."
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
107. You think only Turks can be experts on Turkey?
How's that?
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks lukery!
Recommended.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R...
:hi:
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. K & R
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. Excellent-thank you. rec'd
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
35. Very informative. Thanks for posting.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. Another Great Piece By Lukery
Excellent analysis; thank you Lukery.

Let's see how fast they'll go about classifying the State Department's past reports. On what ground?? State Secrets Privilege, National Security, CYA retroactively...!
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. which reports?
thnx SS.

perhaps we should get our hands on all of these reports ASAP - just in case

maybe we can post them at http://www.wikileaks.org/
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
45. BushCo + republicons + drug trade = terra
What a stinking, rotten reality the corrupt republicon cronies have foisted upon our nation and the world.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
66. Could Gladio still be around today? And is this connected to them?
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 08:09 PM by ck4829
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #66
78. bad link
the answer to your questions are yes, and quite possibly.

but your link is wrong - please try again?
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Fixed link, thanks for telling me.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
81. And multi-chin Hastert is knee-deep in all of that.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. ah yes
our good friend denny.

i want him arrested by SOTU time.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Mr. Fat Bastert wants his cake and to eat it too!
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 08:47 PM by calipendence
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Oh geez!!
Warn someone next time!!


:puke:

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Otay! Everyone is now warned!
:)
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. most unpleasant! n/t
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
86. This needs to be in the research section
Pretty please?
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ftr23532 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
90. Marc Grossman also sits on Dyncorp's board...check out its new $2 billion drug eradication contract
This is from December 23, 2006 in the Dallas Morning News:

Afghanistan deal could net DynCorp over $2.1B

06:20 PM CST on Saturday, December 23, 2006

By TOD ROBBERSON / The Dallas Morning News

After nearly a decade of experience eradicating illicit-drug crops in Colombia for the State Department, DynCorp has won a new contract that could earn the company more than $2.1 billion over the next 10 years and will include operations in Afghanistan, the worlds biggest producer of opium.

Marc Grossman, a Clinton administration undersecretary of state who helped initiate a $4 billion counter-narcotics effort known as Plan Colombia, said DynCorps eradication operation was well worth the taxpayers money. He now serves with Gen. Barry McCaffrey on DynCorps board of directors.

When Plan Colombia was getting started, there was this fear that the drug problem was going to go wildly out of control, that it was going to explode and that it would never be stabilized, he said. The fact that cultivation is back on the rise and drug smuggling into the United States is close to the same levels as 2000 is not great because youd like it to go down. But the fact that there hasnt been any doubling or tripling of this crop seems to me at least a worthwhile point to make.

During the past decade, however, Colombian pilots have not replaced DynCorp on crop-dusting missions, as required in a training contract the company signed with the State Department in 1995. The cost savings could have been significant, according to a 1998 study by the General Accounting Office, now known as the Government Accountability Office.

Citing State Department estimates, the GAO said, The direct costs of supporting the contractor in Colombia increased from about $6.6 million in fiscal year 1996 to $36.8 million in fiscal year 1999. According to the State Inspector General, U.S.-provided contractor pilots and mechanics are paid between 2.5 and 4 times more than the Colombian contractors employed by the National Police.

Asked why the government is forgoing the cost savings and continuing to use DynCorp, Mr. Grossman responded, If theres an implication to your question that people kept the Colombians from doing this in order to keep this contract , I dont believe that. Dont forget that DynCorp has lost people; theyve had people taken hostage there. This is not a cost-free thing for the company, just as its not a cost-free thing for the United States of America.

The State Department declined interview requests for this story. From 2005 to 2008, DynCorp will have received $643 million for eradication work, mainly in Colombia and Afghanistan.
...

So Dyncorp isn't just being used in Colombia but also Afghanistan. And here's the section that that shows how these programs aren't just a great way for connected contractors to reap large profits (sometimes at the expense of their employees), but they also help normalize the privatization of war....

...

As the White House director of national drug policy under President Bill Clinton, Gen. McCaffrey introduced Plan Colombia as a way to combat the leftist guerrilla forces who had seized much of the countrys cocaine and opium trade in the 1990s and were using the profits to expand their war.

Plan Colombia provided DynCorp with a major boost in revenues but also, for the first time, put its employees directly in the line of guerrilla fire. The company also won a contract to upgrade more than 40 Vietnam-era Huey combat helicopters and install mini-gun systems that can spray out 3,000 rounds of ammunition per minute.

Three DynCorp pilots were killed on drug-crop eradication missions over guerrilla-dominated territory in Colombia. Other employees were kidnapped. In early 2001 during a search-and-rescue operation, four American employees of DynCorp participated in a helicopter-borne firefight against Colombias oldest and biggest guerrilla group.

The Colombia contract quickly immersed the company in public controversy. Members of the U.S. Congress accused the government of using DynCorp to carry out combat-related missions. In 2000, Congress imposed a limit of 400 contractors who could be present in Colombia at any time to prevent the U.S. government from using DynCorp and other contractors to circumvent laws on the use of American troops.



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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. thnx - i've been meaning to post about this
i've written quite a lot about grossman

try here for example
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/8/12746/0252
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ftr23532 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Excellent Diary!
Keep us posted on what more you find Grossman. He seems like a one of those individuals worthy of much more scrutiny!

And the nuclear safety stuff reminding me of one of the most chilling little articles I had stumbled across recently. This is from 2002 when the Ptech fiasco was coming out:

Government contractor suspected of terrorist ties

By Shane Harris
sharris@govexec.com

U.S. Customs agents Thursday raided the offices of a Massachusetts-based software company that does business with the federal government, suspecting the firm has links to the al Qaeda terrorist network.

Ptech Inc., a business software manufacturer in Quincy, Mass., does business with several federal agencies, according to the company's Web site. Agencies listed as users of the software or company's services include the FBI, Federal Aviation Administration, IRS, Naval Air Systems Command, Air Force, Forest Service, the Education, Energy and Veterans Affairs departments, and the Postal Service. The House of Representatives and North Atlantic Treaty Organization are also listed as clients.

...

A spokesman for the National Nuclear Security Administration at the Energy Department said that Friday news reports were the first the organization had heard of any raid on Ptech, and that the agency hasn't been searching its software for vulnerabilities.


Yaaaay! :banghead:
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. more grossman
there's also this:
"Thirdly, two weeks after 911, Sibel overheard two 'targets' of a CI monitoring program having a conversation. Apparently, three associates of these targets were arrested in New Jersey immediately after 911 - two Turkish guys and an Uzbeki. The targets were desperate to get their associates out of jail, and out of the country, so they called Marc Grossman who duly facilitated their release."

http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/07/sibel-911.html

more here, too
http://sibeledmonds.blogspot.com/2006/09/doug-feith-ric...

and madsen had a pretty solid post about Grossman too
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/09/madsen-on-sibe...
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
94. K&R n/t
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
96. Quite related and instructive
According to a German news report, financial support from Islamic countries to the KLA was channelled through the former Albanian chief of the National Information Service (NIS), Bashkim Gazidede. "Gazidede, reportedly a devout Moslem who fled Albania in March of last year <1997>, is presently <1998> being investigated for his contacts with Islamic terrorist organizations."

The supply route for arming KLA "freedom fighters" are the rugged mountainous borders of Albania with Kosovo and Macedonia. Albania is also a key point of transit of the Balkans drug route which supplies Western Europe with grade four heroin. 75 percent of the heroin entering Western Europe is from Turkey. And a large part of drug shipments originating in Turkey transits through the Balkans. According to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), "it is estimated that 4-6 metric tons of heroin leave each month from Turkey having as destination Western Europe." A recent intelligence report by Germany's Federal Criminal Agency suggests that: "Ethnic Albanians are now the most prominent group in the distribution of heroin in Western consumer countries."


Respectable banks launder large amounts of dirty money

THE LAUNDERING OF DIRTY MONEY

In order to thrive, the criminal syndicates involved in the Balkans narcotics trade need friends in high places. Smuggling rings with alleged links to the Turkish State are said to control the trafficking of heroin through the Balkans "cooperating closely with other groups with which they have political or religious ties" including criminal groups in Albanian and Kosovo, the Associated Press noted earlier this month. In this new global financial environment, powerful undercover political lobbies connected to organized crime cultivate links to prominent political figures and officials of the military and intelligence establishment.

The narcotics trade nonetheless uses respectable banks to launder large amounts of dirty money. While comfortably removed from the smuggling operations, powerful banking interests in Turkey but mainly those in financial centers in Western Europe discretely collect fat commissions in a multi-billion dollar money laundering operation. These interests have high stakes in ensuring a safe passage of drug shipments into Western European markets.

http://www.monitor.net/monitor/9904a/klacontra.html
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Good Links
Thanks; you may want to check out Yassin Al Kadi; he was granted Turkish Citizenship; operates many of his businesses out of there. His banks accounts: untouched in Turkey & Cyprus.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. KLA
thnx Jcrowley - good article

actually, I was going to mention that the WorldBank report ALSO doesnt mention the KLA - but i figured that would be too confusing.

I've written about the KLA recently
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/12/peter-dale-sco...
and
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/10/perle-feith-an...
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
101. The Drug angle.
The Global Drug Meta-Group: Drugs, Managed Violence, and the Russian 9/11
http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/global-drug....

by Peter Dale Scott

It's a big, big, problem.
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ftr23532 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
102. For some past ties with Turkish drug smuggling, BCCI, SICO, Gladio, and the fascist Grey Wolves...
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 11:59 PM by ftr23532
Go here and skip half way down to the section "The Sico Family Affair". Specifically, the stuff on the Shakarchi family and their involvement in the "Lebanese Connection" turk-related drug-money laundering case is kind of interesting, albeit very tangentially related. Here's an excerpt of a 1990 London Independent article about that case that gives us a sense of just how huge a money-laundering operation this was, and also note that the ties to the Swiss Attorney General (this is from Lexus Nexus so there's no link):

Copyright 1990 Newspaper Publishing PLC
The Independent (London)

March 18, 1990, Sunday

By FIAMMETTA ROCCO

Dirty dealings that stain Swiss image; This summer will see the start of a drug money laundering trial that is likely to have serious repercussions for Switzerland's banking code

ON THE shores of Lake Lugano a customs museum pays homage to the ingenuity of smugglers and the zealous nature of the Swiss frontier guardsmen. It sits in a garden where regulations are as common as flowerbeds. Amid patches of Phoenicia-blue pansies, signs order no littering, no fouling, no fishing, no jaywalking. The admonitions carry no penalties, but they make it clear that the Swiss harbour a strong dislike for anyone who flouts their rules, written and unwritten.

Neutral since 1515, when they signed a treaty of perpetual peace with France, the Swiss have always been self-satisfied. But this self-conscious superiority has been severely tried over the past few months, as Switzerland's secretive banking establishment, headed by Credit Suisse, Swiss Bank Corporation and the Union Bank of Switzerland, has become the target of investigations by the US Drug Enforcement Administration.

Last month, former justice minister Elizabeth Kopp was tried for using privileged government information when she told her husband that a company of which he was deputy chairman - the Zurich-based currency and bullion trader, Shakarchi Trading - was under investigation after being featured in a DEA inquiry for allegedly laundering drug profits. In the end, Mrs Kopp was acquitted, but not before her political career was destroyed.

The Kopp affair highlights the darker side of Switzerland's secret banking laws. And the publicity surrounding the case has forced the Swiss to examine whether their society is indeed as hygenic as they would like to believe. ''For generations, Switzerland was the symbol of health, of cleanliness. Today it is a centre of infection,'' says Swiss MP Jean Ziegler, whose book about drug money La Suisse Lave Plus Blanc was published last month.

Not accustomed to soul-searching, the Swiss are now eager to find someone to blame. They may well have found the perfect outlet for their frustration in Barkev and Jean Magharian, two Lebanese currency and bullion dealers who come up for trial next month in the southern canton of Ticino charged with laundering SFr2bn ( pounds 830m) from the United States and Turkey, via Bulgaria through an array of Zurich bank accounts.

In mid-June, 23 months after they were arrested, the Magharian brothers will enter the dock at the start of the most important dirty money trial since the celebrated ''Pizza Connection'' Mafia trial five years ago. It is not only the sums involved - the equivalent of Britain's entire aid budget to the Third World for a year - that will make this trial celebrated, but the global scope of the Magharians' operations.
...


That "Pizza Connection" trial, which involved heroin smuggling and distributed in the US by the Mafia, is interesting, because it also involved the Turkish fascist Grey Wolves. Here's a 1997 Consortium News article that discusses the Grey Wolves, their involvement in the shooting of the Pope, The Vatican Bank Scandal, Operation Gladio, and their ties to the "Pizza Connection" trial and drug smuggling in general. And note their high-level connection to the Turkish law enforcement:

On the Trail of Turkey's Terrorist Grey Wolves
By Martin A. Lee

In broad daylight on May 2, 50 armed men set upon a television station in Istanbul with gunfire. The attackers unleashed a fusillade of bullets and shouted slogans supporting Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister Tansu Ciller.

The gunmen were outraged over the station's broadcast of a TV report critical of Ciller, a close U.S. ally who had come under criticism for stonewalling investigations into collusion between state security forces and Turkish criminal elements.

Miraculously, no one was injured in the attack, but the headquarters of Independent Flash TV were left pock-marked with bullet-holes and smashed windows. The gunfire also sent an unmistakable message to Turkish journalists and legislators: don't challenge Ciller and other high-level Turkish officials when they cover up state secrets.

For several months, Turkey had been awash in dramatic disclosures connecting high Turkish officials to the right-wing Grey Wolves, the terrorist band which has preyed on the region for years. In 1981, a terrorist from the Grey Wolves attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II in Vatican City.

If you want to see some interesting connections between the Vatican Bank scandal, the P2 lodge, and Banca del Gottardo (the bank used by the Muslim Brotherhood from terror-related money-laudnering), and massive scope of money-laundering taking place these days, go here.

Continuing with the Consortium News article...

...
But at the center of the mushrooming Turkish scandal is whether Turkey, a strategically placed NATO country, allowed mafiosi and right-wing extremists to operate death squads and to smuggle drugs with impunity. A Turkish parliamentary commission is investigating these new charges.

The rupture of state secrets in Turkey also could release clues to other major Cold War mysteries. Besides the attempted papal assassination, the Turkish disclosures could shed light on the collapse of the Vatican bank in 1982 and the operation of a clandestine pipeline that pumped sophisticated military hardware into the Middle East -- apparently from NATO stockpiles in Europe -- in exchange for heroin sold by the Mafia in the United States.
...


Here's an interesting article discussing the Grey Wolves' ties to Gladio, which apparently tied into the "Pizza Connection" heroin smuggling network used.

Continuing...

...
The official Turkish inquiry was triggered by what could have been the opening scene of a spy novel: a dramatic car crash on a remote highway near the village of Susurluk, 100 miles southwest of Istanbul. On Nov. 3, 1996, three people were crushed to death when their speeding black Mercedes hit a tractor and overturned. The crash killed Husseyin Kocadag, a top police official who commanded Turkish counter-insurgency units.

But it was Kocadag's company that stunned the nation. The two other dead were Abdullah Catli, a convicted fugitive who was wanted for drug trafficking and murder, and Catli's girlfriend, Gonca Us, a Turkish beauty queen turned mafia hit-woman. A fourth occupant, who survived the crash, was Kurdish warlord Sedat Bucak, whose militia had been armed and financed by the Turkish government to fight Kurdish separatists.

At first, Turkish officials claimed that the police were transporting two captured criminals. But evidence seized at the crash site indicated that Abdullah Catli, the fugitive gangster, had been given special diplomatic credentials by Turkish authorities. Catli was carrying a government-approved weapons permit and six ID cards, each with a different name. Catli also possessed several handguns, silencers and a cache of narcotics, not the picture of a subdued criminal.

When it became obvious that Catli was a police collaborator, not a captive, the Turkish Interior Minister resigned. Several high-ranking law enforcement officers, including Istanbul's police chief, were suspended. But the red-hot scandal soon threatened to jump that bureaucratic firebreak and endanger the careers of other senior government officials.

Grey Wolves Terror
The news of Catli's secret police ties were all the more scandalous given his well-known role as a key leader of the Grey Wolves, a neo-fascist terrorist group that has stalked Turkey since the late 1960s. A young tough who wore black leather pants and looked like Turkey's answer to Elvis Presley, Catli graduated from street gang violence to become a brutal enforcer for the Grey Wolves. He rose quickly within their ranks, emerging as second-in-command in 1978. That year, Turkish police linked him to the murder of seven trade-union activists and Catli went underground.

Three years later, the Grey Wolves gained international notoriety when Mehmet Ali Agca, one of Catli's closest collaborators, shot and nearly killed Pope John Paul II in St. Peter's Square on May 13, 1981. Catli was the leader of a fugitive terrorist cell that included Agca and a handful of other Turkish neo-fascists.

Testifying in September 1985 as a witness at the trial of three Bulgarians and four Turks charged with complicity in the papal shooting in Rome, Catli (who was not a defendant) disclosed that he gave Agca the pistol that wounded the pontiff. Catli had previously helped Agca escape from a Turkish jail, where Agca was serving time for killing a national newspaper editor. In addition to harboring Agca, Catli supplied him with fake IDs and directed Agca's movements in West Germany, Switzerland, and Austria for several months prior to the papal attack.
...


So the guy that they found in the car crash with a high-level police officer that was apparently given special diplomatic priviledges by Turkish authorities was also the guy that gave his close associate that pistol that shot the pope the very same pistol that was used to do it. Italian investigators concluded in May of 2006 that it was the Soviets that ordered the shooting :-)

Anti-fascist researcher Dave Emory has a very different take on that affair. Check out "FTR-42 Pope Shooting Update" (audio available here), FTR-43 The Pope Shooting: Stibam (audio available here). For how they tie in with the P2 lodge, check out FTR-98 Update on Vatican Power Politics, the P-2 Lodge and Licio Gelli (Part 1 and Part 2 available here).

Continuing with the article...

...
Catli enjoyed close links to Turkish drug mafiosi, too. His Grey Wolves henchmen worked as couriers for the Turkish mob boss Abuzer Ugurlu. At Ugurlu's behest, Catli's thugs criss-crossed the infamous smugglers' route passing through Bulgaria. Those routes were the ones favored by smugglers who reportedly carried NATO military equipment to the Middle East and returned with loads of heroin.

Judge Carlo Palermo, an Italian magistrate based in Trento, discovered these smuggling operations while investigating arms-and-drug trafficking from Eastern Europe to Sicily. Palermo disclosed that large quantities of sophisticated NATO weaponry -- including machine guns, Leopard tanks and U.S.-built Cobra assault helicopters -- were smuggled from Western Europe to countries in the Middle East during the 1970s and early 1980s.

According to Palermo's investigation, the weapon delivers were often made in exchange for consignments of heroin that filtered back, courtesy of the Grey Wolves and other smugglers, through Bulgaria to northern Italy. There, the drugs were received by Mafia middlemen and transported to North America. Turkish morphine base supplied much of the Sicilian-run "Pizza connection," which flooded the U.S. and Europe with high-grade heroin for several years.
...


So that "Pizza Connection" case is quite big considering it ties into both fascist groups, arms-trafficking networks, drug-smuggling! There's a lot more in that ConsortiumNews article, including a segment on their Pan-Turkist fascist ideology. For those interested, here's a Dave Emory on on that topic and how their ideology ties into the larger international fascist networks: FTR-549 The Pan-Turkist Movement, the Underground Reich and the Earth Island (audio available here)

And here's a post from http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com about the Grey Wolve's ties to bin Laden which kind of brings it all full circle (forgive my linking to your own posts, luckery ;-) )
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. great work ftr23532!
Thanks - this is fabulous

incidentally, you aren't the only person to link that that post of mine today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

That Consortium News article by Martin Lee is terrific. Also don't miss ADrian Gatton's article on Susurluk (the car crash)- i have the whole article, plus my sibel-related take on it here
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/12/sibel-edmonds-...

Another great article is Mike Mejia's Turkish DeepState-Gate
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/07/turkish-deepst...

one quick note about Switzerland - it kinda drives Sibel mad that everyone thinks that it is the money laundering center. At least as far as her case is concerned, all the money laundering is done in Turkey, Cyprus and Dubai.

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. excellent work by everyone
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 12:56 AM by madrchsod
putting together the middle east drug trade. may i add that i have a 40 year old half pound hashish bag from lebanon with a sickle and a red star symbol on it..i wonder how that got to the states those many years ago...
i still eat pizza at one of those pizza connection places,the family is still there and the old man is in italy. he`s one of the guys who ended up in a wheel chair...
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. smell?
i bet that bag smells great :-)
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. it used to, along with what was in it
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 01:34 AM by madrchsod
but that was along time ago....i`m waiting for ss to enjoy again
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ftr23532 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #103
116. thanks!
And yeah, as far as I can tell Switzerland has sort of a money-laundering legacy that's been adapted to the modern globalized international financial system. A lot of shady companies may operate there, but why laundering in Switzerland when they can do their dirtiest work in one of the gazillion little tax havens across the globe, like the Bahamas, Dubai, or even Russia. That's how the al-Taqwa group seemed to operate: They were based in Lugano Switzerland, but set up "Bank al-Taqwa" in the Bahamas, which is a big part of the reason the investigation into al-Taqwa died: the Bahamas government refused to cooperate with Swiss and US investigators (and then there's the fact that their politically connected Bahamas lawyer, Sean Hanna, unexpectedly died six months after the investigation was closed...there's a bit more on that here).

I didn't know Cyprus or Turkey were notable money-laundering centers but it sure wouldn't surprise me after looking into all that Pizza Connection/Grey Wolves/drugs stuff back in the 70's and 80's and then factoring in the explosive growth in the drug trade through that region since then. That underground sector of the global economy is just so huge and growing that I would imagine there has to be be money-laundering centers (or wanna be centers) popping up all over the place these days! Money-laundering expert Lucy Komisar put it at 70 money-laundering centers in her most recent article. Check out this juicy quote:

...
Experts believe that as much as half the worlds capital flows through offshore centres. Tax havens like the Cayman Islands have 1.2 percent of the worlds population but hold 26 percent of the worlds wealth, including 31 percent of the net profits of U.S. multinationals.

Another few hundred billion come from fraud, corruption and drug trafficking. According to the International Monetary Fund, between 600 billion and 1.5 trillion dollars of illicit money is laundered annually, equal to two to five percent of global economic output most of it in offshore banking centres.
...


So we got half the friggin' capital flows in the world going through offshore financial "havens"?! That's just lovely. Oh, and here's a fun fact from that same article:

...
But Western governments, who may think their banks and corporations are simply ripping off other countries, should take a closer look. They are losing billions of dollars in taxes through offshore tax evasion. A hearing in the U.S. Senate in August detailed how Sam Wyly, famous in the U.S. for financing the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attack on presidential candidate John Kerry, may be guilty of one of the largest personal tax frauds in U.S. history.

With the help of Bank of America and an offshore network of fake companies in the Isle of Man, he and other members of the family allegedly cheated the country of taxes on nearly a billion dollars.
...


Heh.

So anyways, I saw this article from today that says the global levels of liquidity have grown at record rates in the past four years. Putting aside the the historically low interest rate levels and the borrowing/lending binge taking place, and unregulated derivatives maddess, you have to wonder just how much the inter-related activities of organized crime (the drug trade, arms smuggling, human traffkicking, frauds of all type, etc) are contributing to the record levels of hot money floating around.

It's just amazing how much this stuff all interconnects. :yoiks:
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
111. Kick & Nominated
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #111
112. K&R. Give that WOman a Medal of Honor. Hell,
give her George Tenet's -- he ain't using it!

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
115. kick
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whyzayker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Kick and opinion.
Heres my take, with all due respect to Orrin_73.

Ive always maintained that whatever Sibel (and those who would back her up) know is proof that the so called war on terror is a lie. As I stated in an earlier article: http://tinyurl.com/ykpn69 , Sibel once told me to forget 9/11 and concentrate on the DOD and the business as usual point of view.

Has it ever dawned on anyone that if al Qaeda was such a real threat, that more wouldve have been done since 9/11 to neuter them? Think of all the threads and stories here regarding lost chances and getting the #2 guy etc. etc.

What we have here is little more than a replacement for the Big Red Menace, which in turn funds the MIC which has ties to countries (Turkey for example) through its members who share a common goal.

This is not pie-in-the-sky conspiracy theorizing but the realization that there are those who crave (and profit) from conflict. Go back to Lukerys posts add see the players.

This is a big stakes game, kids. And why shouldnt Turkey be a major player? When was the last time anyone in the media paid them any attention? Armenian Genocide? The goal to be part of the EU? Was it on the front page? Not so much. Get the drift?

Money fuels everything. Illegal drugs, illegal arms sales are little more than a part of the equation that those in power would rather not talk about unless were talking about a war on either one. Just more smoke and mirrors.

My serious suggestion would be for all of us who give a damn, to push our reps to pass a Whistleblowers Protection Act and allow folks like Sibel and others to finally tell what they know.

But thats just my opinion.


W. David Jenkins III
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #117
118. Agreed, though i think it's about more than profiting from conflict
Those conflicts are without exception about achieving some geo-political goal such as obtaining resources or getting access to a location of military strategic importance.
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