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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:28 AM
Original message
Goodbye Daddy
It seems we punish the innocent in the cruelest way possible when we kill their loved ones.
This is the #1 reason I am personally against the death penalty. Yes, Saddam committed heinous crimes, but he was also somebody's dad.



Saddam and daughter


Saddam with daughter Raghad


Saddam with daughter


Saddam and daughter Rana


"The two daughters of former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein were glued to TV screens in Amman until his execution at dawn Saturday, while the defence team went on high alert, sources close to the team said.

Saddam's eldest daughter Raghad had to be sedated to contain her tension as she spent the night switching channel to another, one of the sources added.

They had to put her to sleep in the morning. She was under tremendous stress, he noted."

http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_6846-Saddams-Daughters-...

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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. I know that some won't understand .. but I think along those lines also,
having been a social worker for so many years.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you. I also wonder if this post was on an Iraqi website, what would
everyone be saying?
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
91. Would depend on if the website was Sunni or Shite
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. A courageous and deeply moral thing for you to say.
Saddam was a bastard, but he was human, and his daughters harmed no one.

There is nothing to celebrate in what has occurred here.


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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
100. He was the U.S.'s bastard.
And someday we'll have to deal with that, one way or another. The Republicans would like us to forget it, but the reality is, that the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil may be due to that unvengeance factor.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #100
105. Darn it! I thought the headline meant "Goodbye to Daddy Bush"!
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Stargazer99 Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. How many other daddys did this man kill and torture?
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 01:38 AM by Stargazer99
What one gives one gets, I'm sure there are plenty of families suffering from Saddam's murderous activities.Because we are focused on the present day and individuals involved we have to become pansys?
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Pansys? Is that some kind of disease?
I don't recall anyone at this website ever accusing other members of having pansys. Perhaps its a FR disease and you brought it over!
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Makes me wonder.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
41. Every time I see that picture, I think it's Ted Bundy.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
63. I was about to say the same thing!


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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
95. Me, too. For a second I was wondering when Ted Bundy had ever had kids.
:scared: Ted and George are similar in more ways than one. :scared:
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pamela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #95
124. Bundy has a daughter.
She's around the same age as the Bush twins.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. While focusing on victims of Saddam is proper ...
Creating MORE victims seem to dishonor their memories ...

A permanent, unrevocable life sentence would have avoided extending victimhood itself, and I dont mean just Saddam's daughters, but in every case where someone wrongly causes death, and society demands punishment ....

Let the punishment be honorable to the very notion of morality, and cease to extend the wrongful act of killing into the act of punishment itself .... in all cases ....
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
81. Pansys?
Seriously, go peddle that bullshit on some other board more suited to it. Like FR or the AOL boards. You'd probably feel more at home.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
93. People like you keep forgetting that Saddam was our monster...we
made him. His barbaric hanging has only made things worse.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
99. karma is a bitch
so get ready bernie... Saddam's death doesn't end it all; it stirs the pot...
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
108. "He tried to kill MY Deddy!!!"
"But I didn' let 'im! Think what a turrible world this woulda bin without my Deddy!"--George W. Bush.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
113. How many sons have Bush/Cheney killed?
And why are they not being marched to the same place Saddam was marched to?

Daddy's are very important. But so are sons--and, unlike Daddy's, they are the FUTURE.

Future cancelled for thousands upon thousands of families--thanks to Bush/Cheney.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Did they get a chance to talk with him in the last 3 years?
any type of closure?
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Saddam's daughter's request to visit him before his death was denied
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061229/ap_on_re_mi_ea/sadd...

"Saddam received two of his half brothers in his cell on Thursday and was said to have given them his personal belongings and a copy of his will.

Najeeb al-Nauimi, a member of Saddam's legal team, said he too requested a final meeting with the deposed Iraqi leader. "His daughter in Amman was crying, she said 'Take me with you,'" al-Nauimi said late Friday. But he said their request was rejected."
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. that's what got me. SHE wasn't the one who committed human rights crimes.
they couldn't let her spend a half-hour with him? he could tell her he loved her, and she could respond with the same?
yeah, I KNOW he was bloody and brutal. I just don't know why they had to punish her as well.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
112. If you're familiar with any of America's jails or prisons
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 01:05 PM by demobabe
They basically work the same way. There's the criminal, and then there is the people around the criminal that end up getting punished as a result of the criminal, and it pretty inhumane ways, too.

I have firsthand experience with not being able to contact a loved one after he went into jail. Worst thing was, it was a civil contempt issue, and he arranged with the court the time he would serve. He turned himself in at the required time, and they held him in a waiting cell for 18 hours. Then they finally check him in and put him in the absolute worst part of the jail, with violent murderers, guys with nazi symbols tattooed on their forheads, an insane guy who tried to flush everything in his cell down a toilet (causing the whole jail to flood with fecal water), and an insane guy in a "suicide dress" sobbing non-stop for days. On the walls were fine crafted murals made from shit, and the prisoners howled inhuman satanical sounds.

Every day I was supposed to be able to talk to him, but his ID didn't work, so finally on the fifth day, he got through to leave a 30 second message that he was still alive. Before that, I was completely frantic, because he told me he'd call, and getting information was impossible. I had to send a lawyer in to actually fix the situation. After a week, I did manage to talk to him, but was limited to 15 minutes and it cost me $20 for basically a local phonecall.

I guess here I should mention that he was a DUer, a vocal one at that, and the lawyer used printed copies of web pages just like you're reading right now to influence the Southern Christian Coalition installed judge (that got money from Jack Abramoff) to color her opinion. It worked.

That court in the South was a kangaroo court as well; what we did to Saddam Hussein's trial and lynching are just an extension of our own "Southern Hospitality."
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #112
128. How horrible...
Did he recover ok from this terrible experience? And yes, here you were another innocent loved one tormented by the "system".
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sillyphoenix Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. You know what...
I wish I could give Saddam's daughters a hug and tell them I'm sorry for what we've done. They're people too, Goddammit.

Honestly, I'm so sorry.
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. I agree totally with your feelings as they are the same as mine
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sillyphoenix Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. then let's send them good vibes.
I, for one, will include the entire family in my prayers tonight.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. We invaded his country. That was not our right.
We executed (or had it done) the leader of a sovereign country. We have no right.

Riverbend compares the death figures between Bush and Saddam, a father grieves.

"I have never been so angry. We invaded another country that was no threat, and now for some reason known only to a few...we have executed their leader. (Yes, I know they said the Iraqis did...but it was our idea...we are boss of them).

Our TV has disintegrated to the point where it is either planning to show this execution, or at the very least boasting of it with much pride."

..."We invaded a country with educated, kind and thoughtful people. It is beyond my ability to comprehend what we have done.


More about Riverbend at the link, and about a father losing his handsome son. There is nothing right about what we did, and I don't care if people disagree.



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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Course, Lord Knows He Killed A Hell Of A Lot Of Daddies. Can't Lose Sight Of That.
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 02:00 AM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
I do hear what you're saying though, and I do feel sympathy towards his children who were innocent of the crimes and may feel suffering due to this. But that suffering is due to their father's choice of being a barbaric evil piece of shit, so he is ultimately to blame for their sorrow; not anyone else.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. Execution, for whatever reason, is barbaric for a civilized society.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. Who killed more daddies? Saddam or Bush?
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 01:48 AM by Bozita
Based on that Johns Hopkins study showing 650,000+ dead Iraqi civilians, I'd say Bush has killed more daddies.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Was There Some Competition I Wasn't Made Aware Of?
Way I see it, Saddam killed more than enough daddies. That's what matters.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. America's consumed with lists. ... And, I'm an American.
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 02:18 AM by Bozita
TV news reports are filled with top ten movies of the weekend. Why? None of my pals invest in movies or movie theaters.

Check out the business section of Monday's NYT. Top ten DVDs, music albums, individual songs, network TV programs, non-network programs, etc.

So Saddam killed daddies. OK. So did Bush. I just want to know the rankings.

I'm trying so damned hard to be a good American.




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. Looks like Bush might have killed more daddies.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

You never know. Bottom line, we invaded a sovereign country based on lies, we had the leader executed...in a hurry-up way.

Nothing right about that.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:53 AM
Original message
Does That Make Saddam Any Less Of A Vile And Evil Absolute Piece Of Barbaric Filth?
Does it?

Didn't think so...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
37. Does it make us look more justified for attacking a country based on lies?
And executing their leader after treating him in a humiliating fashion for 3 years.

There are so many bad dictators. Let's go and execute them all...right?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. Does It Matter In The Context Of This OP? Absolutely Not. You're Just Deflecting.
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 03:13 AM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
There's nothing more weak within arguments on here then when someone has to compare anything and everything to * as if that's always relevant to the focus of the topic. Just so you are aware, some things can in fact stand on their own merits without having to be weighed against some bush barometer. It's such childish thinking in my opinion when arguments can only be debated in a "bbbut bush did it!" or "but bush is even worse!" type manner. It does nothing for the legitimacy of debate whatsoever, and is in my opinion nothing more than an ineffective cop-out.

The context of this OP has absolutely nothing to do with bush. Why you have to turn it into some pseudo competition between the two, or inject some other completely different bush argument into it altogether, is perplexing. Like I said, some things can stand on their own merits without having to be compared against some non-existent bush barometer.

In this case, the OP seems to be seeking sympathy for Saddam because he was a daddy. I say fuck that. He was an evil piece of shit who murdered countless numbers of daddies, and the suffering his daughters are feeling are no one else's fault but his own for choosing to be such an evil piece of filth. Therefore, it is absolutely irrelevant, ineffective, and non-contextual to drag bush into the argument since there is nothing that comparison can contribute to an argument of whether there should be sympathy for saddam the daddy, or instead nothing but contempt for his brutal actions.

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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Inquiring minds need to know. ... Who's #1?
If this was a Las Vegas thing, I'd be betting on Bush.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. My God It's Like Talking To A Wall.
Only difference is a wall has an excuse.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. So, is there a particular movie or DVD you'd like us to be rooting for?
My NYT will be on my doorstep in a few hours.

I'll let you know if it made the charts.

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Yeah.
Rocky Balboa.

Long live Rocky.

Goodnight.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Once upon a time, I was a Republican.
Doesn't that excuse me from your wrath?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
84. Head meet wall.
:banghead:

Talking down to people doesn't help.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Neither Does Changing Topics Of Conversation And Being Unable To Focus On The Real Context.
And comparing the conversation to that of talking to a wall was quite simply accurate, since the focus of the context itself was unable to be returned to.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
68. And being a good American
you're following in the tradition of being woefully uninformed. Sorry, Saddam killed more people. Ever hear of the Iran Iraq war, which guess what? Saddam launched.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. And tell me,
who did the US support during that war?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #82
106. Yes, The U.S supported Iraq.
That hardly negates the fact that Iraq under Saddam Hussein was the aggressor.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #82
123. Oh, you're mean! That's a trick question!
Tell 'em the truth that we supported BOTH Iraq AND Iran!

That way they could kill EACH OTHER, with stuff we sold them!
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
98. Actually Iran started the Iran-Iraq war. And continued it after several
attempts by Iraq to cease-fire.

But I guess if Canada started bombing US border towns, you wouldn't call that the start of the Canada-US war, right?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. Really? How interesting. And how unsurprisingly wrong
Historians almost universally disagree with you. Hell, even such sites as ant-war.com and Counterpunch disagree with you.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you.
My brother came within 36 hours of execution after 20 years on death row.

The period leading up to the execution was nearly unbearable. I don't know that my mother would have survived it. Regardless what you think of the crimes, or the person who (may have) committed them, that person being executed is someone's parent, sibling, or child.

Deliberately, and with premeditation, taking the life of one's parent, sibling, or child does not bring back the loved ones previously lost - and in most instances does not even provide closure. All it does is create additional grieving parents, siblings, and children.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I am so sorry you had to live through that
it must be unbearable indeed...
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hugs to you, Ms. Toad, for what you've been through. I may
not agree, but I understand the family connections.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
25. humanizing in the face demonizing in never bad thing
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. what a gross disgusting thread
the fucker killed a lot of other daddies. i don't agree with his hanging, but WTF with this type of thread??????????
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Thank YOU!!
Good god. This thread is fucking sick!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Damn straight!
:hi:
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Meet me in the secret room ....
We might have to speak in code.

The "real" liberals might question us.

ljoeno ljoe gjgjgsl lwoeoeot wooga wooga!

<end trans>
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
117. Bush Has Killed A Lot Of Daddies Too - Where's Your Outrage
Misplaced It Seems!
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
122. I have to agree.
There are plenty of things that deserve our attention and compassion. The death of an authoritarian asshole is certainly not one of them. I understand it's being draped here in his daughter's grief, but frankly- I'm just not moved.

Every day, people are executed by the sorts of systems and authoritarian ideals that Hussein spent his life building and serving. So, for once, the cook was tossed into his own oven. Pardon me if I don't weep.
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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
30. Goodbye Daddy?
:wtf:

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Oh now hush .....
You must not question. For the power of the uptight, stick up their collective ass, GD knows ALL.

YOU might have your liberal card yanked.

Please tread with caution.




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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. How about a stirring tribute to Pol Pot's hamster?
Who will replace his nibble bell?

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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. You guys ok?
Nice to see you're starting 2007 with a sense of humor!
Happy New Year!
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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. You guys?
We're fine. Just lamenting the plight of Idi Amin's grand niece.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
36. WTF??
How many daddies did Saddam kill? Hell. How many CHILDREN did he kill??
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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. He killed less than Bush, by the numbers. So, by proxy,
that makes him less evil, which in turn makes him more benevolent. :eyes:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #38
64. Actually not.
Iran war, Kuwait war, Kurds, Shi'a. Nope, Saddam actually killed more people than Bush. What's more bush got "permission" via the Iraqi War Resolution for his foray into mass death. And that included votes from many dems.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
118. And That Makes Bush's Crimes OK - PLEASE - You Must Be Kidding
eom
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #118
126. Gee, where did I say that??
Jesus fucking christ. Of course I said nothing remotely like that, and it's beyond pathetic to feebly attempt to make it look like I did. I corrected someone's inaccurate assertion, and that makes me OK with bush's crimes?

YOU MUST BE KIDDING
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #126
131. The Implication Seemed Clear Enough To Me
eom
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. What implication??
I've repeatedly condemned bushco on hundreds of threads. You just made shit up. Period. And I'm not one to graciously accept lies about what I've said on this board.
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
42. Didn't he order the murder of their husbands?
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. DOH!
:thumbsup:
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Yes
that's why this is beyond belief! :wow:
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #42
56. Why yes, Daddy Dearest did do that very thing.He was a monster -- but he was also "our" monster once
Lest we forget our country's part in this travesty.

I'm no longer exactly in favor of the death penalty, but I shed no tears for Saddam, any more than I would for Pol Pot or Josef Stalin.

I reserve my grief for my country and the Iraqis, that my nation has fallen on such dark days and under such leadership as the Neocons.

Saddam Hussein should have gone to the international tribunals, and his crimes should have been investigated in full. Instead, to cap the illegal invasion of Iraq, we have an incomplete trial -- complete with assassinated judges and lawyers -- and send Saddam's secrets to his grave with him.

Tell me how this makes sense.

Hekate

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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
45. Goodbye daddy?
Are you f'ing KIDDING ME?






Yeah... GOODBYE DADDY! You fucking murderous piece of shit!

You should be ashamed of yourself!
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. I'm sure you are aware that we could easily compare pictures of war victims
650,000 INNOCENT IRAQIS ARE DEAD due to OUR INVASION

How does killing help to put an end to this human suffering?

I will NOT BE ASHAMED for believing that every soul is sacred...maybe not to YOU, but certainly to the people who love them.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. i wouldn't make a similar one of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld
or the rest of the administration either.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. Idolizing Saddam as a "daddy"
is disgusting...

Bush is a "daddy" too... what? do we start idolizing HIM as well?
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GlenP Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
96. Yeah

Clearly those like TexasGal are democrats for different reasons than those such as myself and the original poster.

The original poster was only pointing out that as reprehensible and evil as Saddam was, he was also somebody's loved one (as difficult as that can be for many to understand).

Yes, Saddam has committed some attrocious acts, and for that he deserves to be removed from society FOREVER, however that is just as easily accomplished through lifelong confinement. I'm sure his daughters and anyone else who might have some kind of affection for that man would much rather he be kept behind bars for the rest of his natural life.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:52 PM
Original message
One more time:
Please go read the rules. Calling out posters is not cool.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. self-delete dupe
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 12:53 PM by cali

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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
53. Some daddy...
he killed his daughter's husbands! :banghead:
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. C'mon, that happens in every family
He was a swell father otherwise :crazy:
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
109. Yes he did. n/t
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
57. As much as I feel that the concept of the death penalty is hypocritical and barbaric
And as much as I have always opposed our invasion of Iraq and the whole kangaroo court that convicted Saddam Hussein, I really have no sympathy toward the man himself.

He was a vile monster who murdered and gassed his own people, killed his own family members and even raped children.

He was a world-class scumbag.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
59. I have said nothing about Saddam being a wonderful father
The ISSUE I raise is whether or not it is moral to kill someone when there are family members who love that person...no matter who they are.

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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #59
73. So.. it IS ok to execute an orphan or someone whose family hates them?
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 11:35 AM by Richardo
:crazy:

Your qualifier is nonsense. Either its morally OK to execute or it isn't. Whether your family or pets love you makes no difference whatever.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
60. I find this thread disturbingly sentimental
and I am and always have been profoundly against the death penalty. Furthermore, I was disgusted by the show trial and circus lynching of Saddam Hussein, but painting his as someone's daddy is a little bit much. Yes, he was someone's daddy, but as others pointed out, he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of daddies- and mommies and children. Yet I have rarely if ever, seen any sympathy expressed on DU for those people. That you choose to sympathize with his pampered daughters, going so far as to post touchingly sentimental pictures of him with his daughters, portraying him so tenderly, without any apparent concern of the hundred of thousand he is responsible for killing, is beyond my ken. And just in case you've forgotted, Saddam killed the husbands of his 2 daughters after vowing that he wouldn't.

Just puke. I'll spend my sympathies elsewhere.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
61. Oh gee...Now I feel sorry for him and his family. Whatever.
No. He as a despot. Did he deserve to die like this? Maybe. But it isn't for us to make that judgment.

When we lower ourselves to the level of the tyrant, we have lost a lot.

Don't make this about the family he left behind, make it about the fact we debased ourselves to become what he was.

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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
62. What a Father!
He ordered the execution of his two son-in-laws and made widows of his own daughters. What a warm and fuzzy kind of Pappa he was! :sarcasm:
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
65. Like I give a fuck
Jesus Christ. Got any puppies he saved from the pound?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
66. This tread is farcical
even more ridiculous than the "it really wasn't Saddam, it was a body double" thread. And it's actually more revolting by a long shot. The title is a goddamn classic of absurdity and poor, poor thinking skills.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
67. This is the stupidest fucking post I've ever read at Democratic Underground.
Bar none.

Saddam Hussein was an evil man who did some very bad things. But now we're supposed to think of him as some warm, cuddly father. Jesus.

I don't mourn his death one goddamned bit.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. poor Saddam
I mourn the death of American principles. The only defense we have of our actions is: "Might makes Right". Which is the basic principle Saddam governed by, so, the only difference between Saddam and GWB is GWB "won" and Saddam "lost".

I think the "cosmic moral scores" of GWB and Saddam are quite comparable.


-85% Jimmy
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
107. True enough. It sucks that his daughters are sad, BUT...
... they no doubt benefited from his power just as thousands upon thousands were victimized.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
70. You get the "Best in Hand Wringing" award for this topic.

Its nice Raghad is sad for her daddy, the man who executed her husband.

:eyes:


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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
71. I wonder how many other fathers...
mothers, brothers, sisters, and friends this monster tortured to death.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
72. but didn't he kill their husbands? n/t
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
74. didn't he put some of his family members to death?
any smiling pictures with them?

Jeezum Crow.
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
75. family connections overshadow the worst.
i read a story about a young boy lying in a hospital bed with severe burns. he cries out for his mother, yet she is the one who burned him.

it doesn't matter what parents do. children unconditionally love them.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
76. Fuck this up one side and down the other
What have WE become when this place is more sympathetic to the death of this asshole than a former president????


If this is what DU is now I'm outta here. :puke:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. This nutty thread is NOT representative of DU
It appears that at least half of the posters find it ridiculous.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Sadly it's only half
But, whatever.

This is a man who ordered the deaths of his daughters husbands.

What a guy!

They make a trophy for that, don't they?
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #77
88. I agree
And just think how fast it might die if you were'nt spamming it with your ourrage. :eyes:
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #77
114. I hope it's more than half..
this thread is beyond ridiculous; it's disgusting.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. What Is So Wrong in Pointing Out that
even the death of one of the world's most brutal dictators still causes pain and suffering...at least in the hearts of some...and when you realize that, we can hardly imagine the suffering of all of the innocent victims of this war.

Say what you wish, but that little public display of hanging Saddam with that monstrous noose is the most sickening media event I have ever witnessed.

Is Saddam's Hanging justice? revenge? THE FACT IS that the people MOST AFFECTED by his death are his own daughters and other family members...What exactly does this accomplish, and what right do we have to cause even more unbearable suffering?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. One can recognize that
that the show trial, the lynching, and the media circus were both repugnant and counter-productive, without writing a mawkish paean to Saddam as "Daddy". And the fact that you don't seem to extend the same kind of sympathies to his hundreds of thousands of victim, speaks volumes. Yours is a dangerous and morally untenable sentimentality.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. I have mentioned WAR VICTIMS in almost every post
that includes those who have suffered under Saddam. Needless Wars and Murder ARE WRONG, regardless of who is doing the killing or wearing which uniform.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. Oh, please, you've made clear that your sympathies for
Saddam's daughters are far greater than your sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of those left bereft by "Daddy", simply by the act of writng your OP, and specifically the way it was written.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. I'm afraid you're seeing things that aren't there
My OP was about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and the INJUSTICE of the DEATH PENALTY.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #76
83. i am equally flabbergasted. nt.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
78. Wow! Liberal stereotypes come true!
Freepers, right-wingers, and others skeptical of liberalism will be soooo pleased with this thread.

Thank you for making DU a laughingstock.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #78
120. Bush IS A Murderer Too - When Will He Get His Just Reward?
eom
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
85. Yeah, a dad who tried to murder his daughter and her husband.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
87. Right wingers love to use this kind of sentiment as fodder to stereotype liberals
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 12:35 PM by mtnsnake
Pretty embarressing stuff.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
92. wow
such empathy. :toast: :yourock: :kick:r
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
94. Beautiful daughters.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
102. Beautiful girls - I hope they find peace. Thanks for posting.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
103. Nice to see some "progressives" respond with such hatred.
Jesus of course would respond with hatred, too.

:eyes:

America; it ain't just a problem with rightwingnuts.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #103
111. LOL
coming from you with the vitriol you spew, that's quite amusing.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #103
115. Where do you stand on the Ford bashing?
I notice that (according to the DU search engine) you didn't weigh in on those threads.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #115
135. Exactly.
I swear I've seen more sympathy for Saddam Hussein around here than Gerald Ford. I've wondered whether I'm the one with the skewed values. I know this is Democratic Underground, but for fuck's sake. This is Saddam Hussein we're talking about.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #103
116. LOL
Are you saying DU is full of fake progressives for throwing spit and vinegar toward GW any chance we get?

After all, who would Jesus hate?

Eyeroll is about right.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #103
121. Is that you John Wayne? Is this me? LOL. nt.
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demgurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
119. Thank you.
Things like this are why I now act the way I do in life. A lot of times when we see vengeance we only see the one person it is directed at but we are all someone's mother/daughter/father/son/cousin/aunt/uncle. When actions happen to us it happens to those around us whether they are co-workers or friends and family.

For instance,*'s lust for getting Saddam had many ripple effects and not just one effect on him. Saddam came forward and said he would gladly leave the country and go into exile but * would have none of it. * was out for blood. In *'s pissing contest we have Saddam's family who paid with tears and some with their lives. We have killed and tortured many innocents and in turn we have created many enemies. We have caused the Iraqi people to go without food, water and electricity. To keep our troops over in Iraq we have sold more of our country to another nation than we have at any other time in our history. There is an unspoken rule that we do not sell but so much of our interests so that our interests are never compromised.

At some point we ourselves will see a backlash from all that has happened. It may be another terror attack on our country or even China deciding to put an end to our economical future. Whatever happens, a lot of people will stay in their disconnect and not see that every one of us should have been in the streets rioting when * first went in for the illegal occupation of Iraq.

Some may argue that he got what he deserved and look at how many lives he has taken. They do not see the big picture as they only experience the disconnect of one action to many others. I know this because not too long ago I was one of those types of people.

It all comes down to seeing how we are all connected and then believing, with all of your heart, the following phrase: Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. If you know the connection each of us share then you know you must treat others with respect and as much kindness as you can muster. You also know your place on earth and know it is not up to you to judge when one lives or dies. You understand certain evils must be contained but it is not up to you to extinguish their life because for every action there is a truly equal reaction. (If not many reactions)

Sure, we could kill Saddam but what if we had said we would keep him imprisoned? That would stop some of our bad karma. Now we are in a situation not unlike gang violence. Saddam killed a bunch of people and so we killed him. We killed him and so many others will try to take that out on our country and/or our troops. Our troops are killed and we call for their heads on a platter. The pattern goes on and on without end.

Peace has to start somewhere and for me that means not leaving it up to other people. If I truly believe in peace on earth then I must step up and shows others what it means through my speech and deeds.

We do not spread peace by killing people. We do not get retribution by killing people. How many people here feel tons better about the world now that Saddam is gone? Is there more peace? Did the victims families truly get their justice? Why would his death be more justice than him being in solitary confinement the rest of his life? What a meager and lonely existence and how much time would he have had to possibly come to terms with his deeds and truly feel sorry? Can he feel any remorse now that he is dead? Definitely not but he might have if he were kept alive. What did we truly gain by killing him, besides shame?

In this New Year let all of us believe in peace on earth and let this wonderful fertile ground of DU be where we plant that seed and help it thrive.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #119
127. wonderful sentiment...
"In this New Year let all of us believe in peace on earth and let this wonderful fertile ground of DU be where we plant that seed and help it thrive."


And scary too what you point out about us selling more and more of our country to another nation to keep our troops in Iraq...our grandchildren will be feeling the consequences of that in incalculable ways for many many years to come...
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
125. Would you grieve for Jenna Bush if her daddy went to the Hague?
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 01:28 PM by Marr
Somehow I doubt it. I know I wouldn't.

But please, if you want to waste your compassion on authoritarian rulers like Saddam Hussein and their offspring, knock yourself out.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #125
132. So what, we don't like Jenna Bush
Edited on Mon Jan-01-07 02:01 PM by demobabe
...so she shouldn't be treated like a human?

Let me understand the gyst of a lot of what has been said on this thread: people we like are supposed to be granted compassion and fairness, whereas people we don't like should be taken down at any cost. Regardless of law, emotion rules.

Some folks have even gone as weird as to think this thread's message is "Saddam shouldn't have been killed because he's a daddy."

The OP was opining the actual death penalty and the fallout it has for the innocents, not whether or not we should feel sorry for the criminal that committed the crime.

I think a lot of people speaking up about the whole lynch style execution of Saddam Hussein, are speaking up because they know there is something WRONG with the whole thing and are maybe trying to pinpoint exactly what. Death penalty, the kangaroo court, the treatment of his daughters, etc...

Personally, I think many unknowingly are speaking up about the general loss of empathy in humanity. When we lose empathy in our society, anything goes. At what point do you no longer count as a human being with basic civil rights? What will it take for each of us to realize that any one of us could be railroaded for someone's personal cause or advancement?

They pick Saddam to do it to because it's easy: he's a bad man. Everyone knows that. So we look the other way, averting our eyes from any injustice or intentional torture or humiliation, because we're promised to see the kind of "justice" we think we're entitled to. Saddam in a noose! Bad man gone!

This does not bode well for the furtherance of humanity.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
129. Wonder how his sons in law felt? Oh, right, he had them murdered.
Of course we feel empathy for grieving loved ones, if not we'd be robots, but c'mon on. This man was a murderously evil dictator who gave his sons free reign to terrorize the country.

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
130. This thread has taken me down the rabbit hole.
I think it was wrong to execute him; not because he was someone's father or had loved ones, but because it's wrong to execute anyone. Saddam should have faced trial at the Hague.

But "Goodbye Daddy"?!?!?

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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #130
134. See my post #132
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. My dear, you've posted this to the wrong person.
You've apparently been here for a long time, but I don't recall our paths ever crossing before; if they had, you would know better than to post such a reply to me.

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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
137. I'm going to lock this.
Do not post "flame bait" discussion topics. While there is no clear line regarding what constitutes flame bait, the moderators have the authority to shut down threads which they consider too rhetorically hot, too divisive, too extreme, or too inflammatory. Please use good judgment when starting threads; inflammatory rhetoric does not normally lead to productive discussion.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator
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