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All of this Ford-bashing is really disheartening...

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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:15 AM
Original message
All of this Ford-bashing is really disheartening...
I guess I'm going to be the one to veer from the DU "party Line" and say some nice things about Gerald Ford. Flame away at me all you want.

Unlike a lot of you here, I am old enough to remember the Ford Administration and Watergate. While the circumstances that brought Gerald Ford to the White House were extraordinary, he did rise to the occasion. Nixon and Watergate left an indelible stain on the presidency and people openly questioned whether the institution of the presidency would ever recover. Ford rose to that challenge in his own way. He stripped the presidency of a lot of the Nixonian "Imperial Pomp". I rememeber one of the first "human interest stories about the new president was that he liked to cook his own breakfast. Nobody could have pictured Tricky Dick doing that. Yeah, it was hokum for the press, but it was really Jerry Ford.

Harry Truman once referred to Ford as "an honest blockhead" and that was pretty accurate. No one would ever compare Ford's intellect to that of JFK or Adlai Stevenson). Ford, as president, became a sort of "Everyman". My grandfather was a true partisan Democrat (he never called Nixon anything but "that lying son-of-a-bitch"), yet he also was able to see that we needed a Ford. grandpa once said "even though he's a Republican, I think Ford seems like a nice guy."

The Nixon pardon will forever be linked with Ford, as it should. While I think that Nixon was evil and should have paid a higher price than he did, I can also see the reason for the pardon. This country had been ripped apart by Watergate and we needed to put it to rest. Putting Nixon on trial could have dragged out Watergate for years, and the country didn't need that. Did the pardon cost Ford his own term? Yes, and he knew that.

Ford was something that is today as rare as hen's teeth: a true moderate Republican. Back in 1976, Ronald Reagan challenged Ford in the primaries (and almost stole the nomination from him) because the Right didn't see Ford as conservative enough. Ford stood up for women's rights, Affirmative Action, the environment, and finally pulled us out of Vietnam. (For this, we was accused by Reagan and company of being soft on communism.)

Another thing about Ford that I always liked was Betty Ford. In my lifetime, only Hillary Clinton has taken more crap over her ideas. Betty Ford was a real breath of fresh air: unabashedly pro-choice, pro-ERA, supportive of working mothers and almost mocking in her treatment of the radical right. She also took the courageous step of going public with her battles with addiction at a time when "respectable" women never talked about these things. Through it all, her husband supported her and never asked her to "tone it down". Compare that to Nancy Reagan and Barbara Bush, who were never even allowed to voice their own views on abortion rights until AFTER their husbands were president.

As a final note, to blame Ford for Cheney and Rumsfeld is just reaching. Yes, both of these guys served in the Ford Administration. At the same time, neither of these guys showed the megalomaniacal, sociopathic tendencies they now show. Classic example of "power corrupts".

Was Ford a great president? No, he was an average president. History will probably remember him more for the odd circumstances that brought him into office than anything he did while in office. One sign of Ford's decency was that he became close friends with Jimmy Carter, the man who defeated him in 1976. These two "everymen" shared many common beliefs and posessed a love of country so typical of their generation. While Carter never developed any kind of bond with any of the other former presidents, he and Ford were able to move past elections and partisanship. They should be a model for all of us.

My sympathies go out to Mrs. Ford and their children.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Might As Well Add This
Inclusive America, Under Attack
By Gerald R. Ford

The New York Times Op-Ed, Sunday, August 8, 1999

Of all the triumphs that have marked this as America's century -- breathtaking advances in science and technology, the democratization of wealth and dispersal of political power in ways hardly imaginable in 1899 -- none is more inspiring, if incomplete, than our pursuit of racial justice. The milestones include Theodore Roosevelt's inviting Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House, Harry Truman's desegregating the armed forces, Dwight Eisenhower's using Federal troops to integrate Little Rock's Central High School and Lyndon Johnson's electrifying the nation by standing before Congress in 1965 and declaring, "We shall overcome."

I came by my support of that year's Voting Rights Act naturally. Thirty years before Selma, I was a University of Michigan senior, preparing with my Wolverine teammates for a football game against visiting Georgia Tech. Among the best players on that year's Michigan squad was Willis Ward, a close friend of mine whom the Southern school reputedly wanted dropped from our roster because he was black. My classmates were just as adamant that he should take the field. In the end, Willis decided on his own not to play.

His sacrifice led me to question how educational administrators could capitulate to raw prejudice. A university, after all, is both a preserver of tradition and a hotbed of innovation. So long as books are kept open we tell ourselves, minds can never be closed.

But doors, too, must be kept open. Tolerance, breadth of mind and appreciation for the world beyond our neighborhoods: these can be learned on the football field and in the science lab as well as in the lecture hall. But only if students are exposed to America in all her variety.

For the class of '35, such educational opportunities were diminished by the relative scarcity of African-Americans, women and various ethnic groups on campus. I have often wondered how different the world might have been in the 1940's. 50's and 60's -- how much more humane and just -- if my generation had experienced a more representative sampling of the American family. That the indignities visited on Willis Ward would be unimaginable in today's Ann Arbor is a measure of how far we have come toward realizing however belatedly the promises we made to each other in declaring our nationhood and professing our love of liberty.

And yet. In the last speech of his life, Lyndon, Johnson reminded us of how much unfinished work remained. "To be black in a white society is not to stand on level and equal ground," he said. "While the races may stand side by side, whites stand on history's mountain and blacks stand in history's hollow. Until we overcome unequal history, we cannot overcome unequal opportunity.

Like so many phrases that have become political buzzwords, affirmative action means different things to different people. Practically speaking, it runs the gamut from mandatory quotas, which the Supreme Court has ruled are clearly unconstitutional to mere lip service, which is just as clearly unacceptable.

At its core, affirmative action should try to offset past injustices by fashioning a campus population more truly reflective of modern America and our hopes for the future. Unfortunately, a pair of lawsuits brought against my alma mater pose a threat to such diversity. Not content to oppose formal quotas, plaintiffs suing the University of Michigan would prohibit that and other universities from even considering race as one of many factors weighed by admission counselors.

So drastic a ban would scuttle Michigan's current system one that takes into account nearly a dozen elements -- race, economic standing, geographic origin, athletic and artistic achievement among them -- to create the finest educational environment for all students.

This eminently reasonable approach, as thoughtful as it is fair, has produced a student body with a significant minority component whose record of academic success is outstanding.

Times of change are times of challenge. It is estimated that by 2030, 40 percent of all Americans will belong to various racial minorities. Already the global economy requires unprecedented grasp of diverse viewpoints and cultural traditions. I don't want future college students to suffer the cultural and social impoverishment that afflicted my generation. If history has taught us anything in this remarkable century, it is the notion of America as a work in progress.

Do we really want to risk turning back the clock to an era when the Willis Wards were isolated and penalized for the color of their skin, their economic standing or national ancestry?

To eliminate a constitutional affirmative action policy would mock the inclusive vision Carl Sandburg had in mind when he wrote: "The Republic is a dream. Nothing happens unless first a dream." Lest we forget: America remains a nation with have-nots as well as haves. Its government is obligated to provide for hope no less than for the common defense.


http://www.ford.utexas.edu/library/speeches/990808.htm

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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I'd never read that piece before...Amazing!
Can anyone picture Ronald Reagan writing to promote racial equality????
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. He Also Wrote An NYT Op-Ed Piece With Bob Dole Opposing Impeachment
I remember that era ... I just can't work up a lot of hate for that guy.


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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
124. Of Nixon or Clinton? nt
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. Low Post Count + Bashing a Death = ???????
Generally equals one thing. FReepers attempting to stir up shit, then cut and paste their bile on their site and mock DU. Standard operating procedure.
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. Could well be true, however ---
I'm a leftist and not even close to being a freeper and I agree with the sentiment of the post.
It is disheartening.
I spent the summer after I graduated from high school watching the Watergate hearings and I cheered when Nixon resigned, but I hold no animosity towards Ford.
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
100. How true, it is disheartening. I was just out of highschool when
all of this was going on. If it wasn't for the 90's, I would still be an Independent. Watching the 90's compelled me to register and vote as a Democrat and I will continue to do so until some sanity and moderation comes back into our political system.

President Ford was a good man, just because he was a Republican doesn't make him the devil. That kind of logic reminds me of Republican logic...black and white and no inbetween. When Ford was in office the Republicans weren't near as horrible as they are now. Ford and Carter are in a class by themselves...not the "politicians" of past and present, but people, decent down to earth people with great luck and attributes.

To everybody wishing to bash Ford, have at it, because nothing you say makes one bit of difference. Those of us that are thoughtful enough to know that we all need to look beyond the "D" and the "R" realize that "unfortunately" there are shallow minded people claiming each of those affiliations.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
199. sorry, but defending ford disqualifies you as a "leftist". nt
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #199
209. I didn't defend Ford, I said I held no animosity towards him
Edited on Thu Dec-28-06 12:20 PM by Zensea
And besides which, I'm not really sure that all defenses of Ford disqualify someone from being a leftist. Some defenses would of course. It depends what you are defending and on what level you are defending him.

I don't go in for oversimplifications and caricatures of things and your response smells to me as being evidence of oversimplification.


(edit to add)--
I just checked your profile. You're old enough to know that things are not black and white, or at least you should be, particularly given the profession you list.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:45 PM
Original message
Exactly. n/t
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. I agree. The dude just died and people are rippin on him. His family
is dealing with a tough time. I think there'd be plenty of time to talk bad about him later...but not just right after the man died.

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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. I think it is a combo of "hindsight = 20/20 vision" and anger with
the current crop of Nixon and Ford retreads in the WH today - and pent up frustration over-taking the moment of graciousness or at least dignity that is due at the time of passing.

The 20/20 Vision thing - who knew how many of the officials of the Nixon and Ford era (esp Cheney and Rumsfeld) would come back again and again - and that the "lessons" they would have taken away from Watergate and Nixon's demise would be those of seeking MORE presidential/imperial power rather than humbleness in terms of the constraints that the Constitution puts on the president to prevent an Imperial office.

While I wish there had been no pardon, his act was not the only one done 'to spare the Nation' and/or 'to prevent such widespread disillusionment with our democratic system as to threaten its future'. Democrats and Republicans alike took a similar stand during the Iran Contra hearings - backing off some of the most serious investigations because of concern that on the heels (okay - 15 yrs isn't "heels" in realtime, but in historic eras - pretty much = "heels") of Watergate, the public distrust could undermine the foundations of democracy/repesentative government. Many of the retreads today who are high officials acting out historically harmful, imperious policies come also from the Iran Contra era (Gates, and Negroponte, and countless others.)

Again, who knew that 'national disgrace' would be so fleeting and these folks could reemerge in current times to do so much harm. Hindsight is 20/20 vision.

Hopefully, today, the public is becoming more savvy - and officials who might take on serious investigations will see them through, rather than back off "for the public's good." Hopefully more than just the folks at DU recognize that without serious accountability for actions - those players, and those just under the key players will be kicking around near the seats of power - only to reemerge as top players in the next republican administration whenever that happens (2012? 2020? whenever).

I really think that is the confluence of anger at the above, that is leading to the bashing at this inopportune time. I understand it - but I think it is misplaced. I honestly think that the backing off of the Iran Contra - because of the "watergate/impeachment pain caused to the country" was much more serious than the pardoning of Nixon. Why? Because the not pardoning of Nixon would not have led to knocking the folks out of power who reemerged under Reagan/Bush and Bush/Quayle, and later under Bush/Cheney. Seriously - not much would have been different. But the backing off of the more serious aspects of Iran-Contra could have knocked more of these folks out of power and would have given a serious civics lesson to the public about the ongoing efforts of the Administrative branch to defy (and outright ignore) the legislative branch (the govt was by law prevented from funnelling any more money to the Contras... the whole operation was about defying Congress and acting extraConstitutionally. What we have today is an extreme version of what happened then - but now it has spread far beyond a single area of international relations - and seems to be insidious to all parts of govt. THAT is where our anger should be. That is where our vigilence should be. When John Dean called for serious hearings and investigations into the major/high up players in different branches of govt - in order to prevent them from reemerging in the future as "public servants" - rather than starting with Impeachment hearings - it was about really prevennting future bad acts of govt that threaten our system - and it was about really educating the public about the extent of the bad-acts policies to instill vigilance in the future.

Okay, I am rambling. Far afield from the Bash Ford or Don't Bash Ford theme of the OP. Woops.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
201. not just rambling , but rambling stupidly.
it was ok not to investigate nixon because dems did not investigate iran-contra? that's just stupid.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
60. Because they're reading here?
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:33 AM by WinkyDink
Because Ford wasn't a Missing Blonde Woman (favorite target of DU mockery)?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks, Hoosier Dem, you said it very well
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 10:25 AM by Richardo
:patriot:

On edit: Recommendation #5
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jensmygov Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ford
Nice Post.Let the man R.I.P.I agree that to blame him for Darth and Rummy is REALLY reaching.My thoughts to Betty(A courageous woman in her own right)and the family.Some of us on this forum need to get a life.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yep, give Ford a break. nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I Remember When He Had Muhammad Ali And George Harrison At The White House.
His son Jack invited them...
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Might As Well Add This And This
Remarks by Senator Edward M. Kennedy

I'm honored to be here today with President Gerald R. Ford, the winner of this years Profile in Courage Award, and Congressman John Lewis, the recipient of the Profile in Courage Lifetime Achievement Award.

In his book, President Kennedy told the stories of courageous political leaders who faced crucial decisions and made them under great pressure, and often at great risk to their own careers. I believe my brother would be especially pleased with our winners this year. He would feel that their stories of courage would have made outstanding new chapters in his book.

At a time of national turmoil, America was fortunate that it was Gerald Ford who took the helm of the storm-tossed ship of state. Unlike many of us at the time, President Ford recognized that the nation had to move forward, and could not do so if there was a continuing effort to prosecute former President Nixon. So President Ford made a courageous decision, one that historians now say cost him his office, and he pardoned Richard Nixon.

I was one of those who spoke out against his action then. But time has a way of clarifying past events, and now we see that President Ford was right. His courage and dedication to our country made it possible for us to begin the process of healing and put the tragedy of Watergate behind us. He eminently deserves this award, and we are proud of his achievement.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Education+and+Public+Programs ...
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Ford is still paying a price for healing
I agree with you. I don't think bashing him is right. He did what he thought was best to try to heal the country. The terrible toll of Watergate was dragging us down and Ford felt the country needed to move on and begin healing. It was a very traumatic thing.
I don't think bashing a basically decent guy is doing anyone any good.
We need more Fords and less Bush now. This nastiness is the fall out of the gop agenda and Bush's. It's gotten so we are so angry we will bash a decent guy who did what he thought was the best simply because he was a republican.
In the 70s the dems and repubs were not enemies. They were friends. They had different ideas but, didnot hate because of it.
They were best friends. Just as Carter was Ford's best friend.
Ford did not make what Cheney and Rummy became. It was in thier character before and came out of Nixon. They used Ford and duped him. They hated him for trying to heal the country.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. He didn't heal anything. He let criminals go free.
That makes him an accomplice.
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michaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
78. How many criminals go free
because of pardons by Presidents, Governors etc? It appears then that Democrats and Republicans are guilty of setting criminals free.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Two wrongs?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #81
188.  Should we have impeached Clinton for pardoning
Edited on Thu Dec-28-06 03:25 AM by barb162
certain people because he used pardons not to your liking?

The politically expedient action of pardoning is not necessarily incorrect or criminal.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #188
190. Clinton didn't pardon a chief executive for subverting the Constitution.
There's no comparison.

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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #190
212. Nixon wasn't charged with "subverting the constitution"

Nixon was charged with abusing his power to obstruct a criminal investigation. The Constitutional process responded and worked quite well.

I gather that, as Ford was incalculably evil, you were also opposed to his support for the Equal Rights Amendment, his signing of the Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty, as well as Nixon's successful negotiation of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and the opening to China.

To condemn a man on the occasion of his death for the fact that he did not fulfill your hope to see another man, who had set the gold standard for public disgrace and humiliation, sent to prison, makes me hope for you that you will begin enjoy the holiday season a bit more.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #212
218. Wrong. Nixon wasn't charged at all.
And, please gather up your projections and plant them somewhere where they may be useful.

:)
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #218
219. There were three charges

in the Article of Impeachment against Nixon. All of them translated into conduct that would constitute obstruction of justice. (http://watergate.info/impeachment/impeachment-articles.shtml)

I'm not sure that you understand that "Articles of Impeachment" are what would otherwise be an "indictment" against someone not immune from normal criminal process. After his resignation, Nixon would have been indictable on those charges, which is why elsewhere I used the more technical term "chargeable", but it still translates into the same essential point for this discussion - i.e. what were the alleged offenses for which Nixon was pardoned.



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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #78
213. It's a Good Thing We Keep Religion and Politics Separate


Because I would despair to see the reaction that some folks have to divine mercy...

"But, but, you are going to FORGIVE those sinners! Aiiyyeeee!"
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
158. Like the Vietnam Draft Resisters?
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 07:53 PM by jberryhill
At the same time that he pardoned Nixon, Ford also began a conditional amnesty program for draft violators (which was later made unconditional by Carter).

You would rather he would have had those "criminals" go to jail as well? Or is your view of the Law selective?

Taken together the Nixon pardon and the Draft Amnesty were two pieces of a pie that said "let's move on."

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #158
191. And so we "moved on" and no president since has tried to manipulate
an election or lie us into a war.

:eyes:
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #191
202. that is exactly the point. nt
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #191
211. What election did Nixon manipulate?
Edited on Thu Dec-28-06 12:19 PM by jberryhill
And what war did Nixon lie us into?

I was responding to your point that Ford "let criminals go free". Such an assertion must necessarily include the draft amnesty program.

The draft itself, incidentally, was also not started by Nixon.

If you are seriously suggesting that the Watergate burglary had any impact on the outcome of the 1972 election, or that the contest between McGovern and Nixon was even "close enough to steal" then we did not live through the same decade.

Nixon could have been charged with obstruction of a criminal investigation. To what good end?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #211
217. That Nixon's attempt to manipulate an election was unsuccessful
is beside the point. He was crazy enough and criminal enough to put his career at risk.

That Ford finally granted amnesty to kids that were smart enough not to get themselves killed for no reason is admirable. Good politics, too. But he's still polished SLIME. Ask any mother of a "disappeared" child in Chile.

And Nixon lied to the American people so blatantly that there was a librarian tasked with shushing students who were reading the transcripts at my college. Because they were LAUGHING too loudly.

lol

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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #217
222. We are going to need bigger prisons

...if "lying to the American people" becomes a criminal offense.

I am interested about "Nixon's attempt to manipulate an election", though.

It is clear that Nixon engaged in wrongdoing to mitigate potential fallout from the Watergate burglary. Nobody disputes that. It is not so clear that Nixon auhorized or had foreknowledge of the Watergate burglary, nor is it clear to what end any information obtained by the bugging of DNC headquarters would have been at all useful or effective to CREEP.

Just for context, do you also maintain that Kennedy and Johnson were "polished slime", or have you not also taken a poll of Vietnamese mothers?

Had the CIA not backed the Iraqi coups in 1963 and 1968, there is substantial doubt that Saddam Hussein would ever have come to power. Both the Kennedy and Johnson administrations were involved in the same sorts of manipulations of foreign governments which, at long last, most rational people have come to realize are counterproductive in the long run.

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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #158
203. your comparison is ludicrous.
opponents of an illegal and immoral war are to be applauded. opponents of the constitution and war criminals are to be prosecuted.

the sheer stupidity in this thread is astounding.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #203
210. That's Precisely The Problem With Nixon

When you get into deciding which laws are "worth" obeying, and which lawbreakers are the "true patriots", then the only thing you have among criminals are differences of opinion.

Like it or not Nixon believed, wrongly, that his personal political success was necessary to the preservation of civilization.

Nixon did not begin our adventure in Vietnam, nor did Nixon institute the draft. Was Vietnam moral and legal right up to January 20, 1969?

Nixon was not pardoned for "war crimes" or being an "opponent of the constitution". Nixon was pardoned from the charge of obstructing a criminal investigation into a burglary arising from a petty and paranoid perception that the investigation would damage him politically.

We are not a banana republic which jails its former leaders upon every regime change.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
59. he was hand-picked by Nixon, and pardoned because he was told to.
I'm sure he was a nice man, but I'm certain that this type of "healing" was not being touted here about Reagan pardoning his criminal bosses.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks Hoosier
I was about to just step away from the computer and avoid DU today.

Posted on another thread saying RIP and some angroid flamed me right away. Sigh.

He was a man with a fmaily and lived to the ripe old age of 93. I am not going to be happy about an old man's death. Sheesh.

So thanks. And now I'll say it again. RIP Gerald Ford.
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Bubba Zanetti Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. I completely agree....
There is such a nastiness here at times. I only see more negative comments on Craiglist Rants-n-Raves.

You people who like to hear the sound of how 'clever' you are need to step back and take a look in the mirror. Mean is mean.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
133. So now that you are feeling superior to all of DU
how does that make you feel? clever?
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Yawn!
Did you say something? Geez, i must have nodded off during the lecture on manners.

Ford was a opportunistic political hack who didn't deserve the office he attained, and only got it because he made a back room deal to pardon the criminals. Hardly worthy of praise.
The Professor
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. As A Professor You Should Know Supposition And Conjecture Are Not Proof
The Plebian
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. And Your Opinion Is Based Upon What?
Supposition and conjecture. So, why would my supposition and conjecture be any less valid? Ansewr: They aren't.

You have your opinion. I have mine. I've read your other posts. I see nothing in there to prove a single thing counter to my POV. And, don't bother with the Kennedy speech. I've already replied that Kennedy was wrong.

Unelected presidents doing what they want, despite the opinions of the electorate, is not acceptable. The only logical thing to conclude was that the fix was in. If ANY president had a reason to do what the people wanted, and not make the decision unilaterally, it was Ford, who received not one single vote for that office. Not one!

The Professor
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Your Logic Is Flawed
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:12 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
You claimed that Ford pardoned Nixon as part of a deal that resulted in him gaining the presidency. If you can not provide credible evidence then all you offered is conjecture and supposition. It is not up to party in a dispute , argument, or debate to prove an event didn't happen.


And in this little scenario Ford appeared before Congress to defend his decision and presumably was exonerated because Congress was satisfied with his explanation and refused to act further.


Under our sytemn of laws the president has the ability to pardon. How the president attained the position is of no moment.

The Plebeian
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. Nonsense
If he had the power, then Congress had no reason to investigate. What other conclusion could they draw? There WAS NOTHING upon which to follow-up and Congress had no privilege to exonerate. Ford wasn't accused of anything. So, you're the one with the flawed logic.

As to your first point: You are offering nothing either. I asked you to prove nothing. I just said that your speculation tells you he didn't take a deal, and my speculation says he did. You ARE making case here. Yes, a case that something didn't happen, but in a party in an argument that says something didn't happen is expected to provide some factual basis for disputing a theory that fits the facts. You haven't.

And, since i admitted it was my inference, and i admitted it was based upon speculation, then you're wrong about that too. I don't have to prove a thing. I told folks here what i think. I told them it was my speculation and inference. If you don't want to agree, don't agree. Sheesh! You have provided nothing to alter my perception and i will stay with my speculation.

You're boring me with this whole lecture on morality. I think Ford was a bad man, dressed like a nice guy. He was part of the problem, not part of the solution, and you're not going to shame me into thinking more of him. You can quit trying.
The Professor
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. My Logic Is Intact...
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:23 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
Taken your logic to the extreme you could you say that DemocratSinceBirth abducted and dispatched of Jimmy Hoffa ... Unless I could account for every second of my life I could not rebut your accusation using your standard of proof.


Absence of proof something didn't happen isn't proof that it did...


Also, your argument regarding the Congressional investigation is disingenuous. They were investigation to see if there was a deal in place when Nixon appointed Ford... Presumably if there was evidence that there was a deal Ford could have been impeached.


The Plebeian


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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. Are You Being Obtuse, Or Just Dense?
You are taking a position. You have offered nothing in the way of fact that would support that position. It is, therefore, purely based upon speculation. I admitted i'm doing that very same thing! The EXACT same thing.

I'm not asking you to prove a thing. I'm asking you to admit that your basis of opinion is no more or less valid than mine. That was abundantly clear in my last post.

You're not going to convince me that no deal was made. No, i don't have proof. I just think the circumstances support a conclusion that a backroom deal took place. You want to believe that Ford was a good and noble man, go ahead. But, you've got no reason other than conjecture to establish that. You've provided no historical background to show the good things that were HIS ideas that helped his fellow countrymen. I was a working adult then. I sure didn't see any.
The Professor
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #58
86. So, Professor, you are using the same logic as the Bush administration
You can't prove there weren't weapons of mass destruction in Iraq just because they don't exist now, therefore everything they said pre-war is true because they believed it to be.

Are you really a professor?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #58
144. I tend to agree with your hypothesis..
There isn't a Republican alive that is altruistic by nature.
They always have their thumb on the scale when weighing strategy.

Both of your positions are moot! (I chose my preference based on past experience w/Republicans)

Everyone seems to be missing the point proffered by the media and lacking outrage!

GERALD FORD, the ONLY UNELECTED President.

Out of respect for the dead, I understand the silence for now. Sometime further down the road,
the Truth has to rewrite history. Ford was the FIRST unelected president and BushII was the SECOND.
This Truth has to be made crystal clear publicly at the appropriate time.

We cannot allow Republicans to rewrite history at their convenience.




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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
94. Watch the interview with the former editor of the Nation magazine
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 12:49 PM by higher class
for background on the Republican selection of Ford to be President - based on the condition that he pardon Nixon. His story is based on quoting from an unpublished (at the time) book being written by Ford and what went on behind the scenes. It smells like obstruction of justice to me.

The interview is on today's Democracy Now for today - precediing it is his 'non-involvement' in the massacres in Timor.

Iff people get his nice demeanor and love for his wife and family mixed up with the truth of crime, we're in trouble here.

When is the time to get educated about stuff that is floating around in our heads and not essential enough to dig into because we are inundated with stuff that is killing us right now - today, yesterday, and tomorrow.

If Time-Warner, Murdoch, Disney, Viacom, GE/Microsoft can fill these days with lies about him and his manipulators, we can fill these pages with the truth about him. Honor what might have been decent about his personal life - and think about and get educated about his total involvement in acts that made people disappear from the planet and his complicity in the manipulation of Congress.

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. Res Ipsa Loquitur
RANCHO MIRAGE, Calif. Former President Jimmy Carter is remembering Gerald Ford as "one of the most admirable public servants and human beings" he has ever known.

Carter defeated Ford in 1976. Ford, who died last night, assumed the presidency in 1974 upon the resignation of Richard Nixon because of the Watergate scandal.

Carter called the Michigan Republican "an outstanding statesman" who "wisely chose the path of healing during a deeply divisive time" in America's history.







http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=5861517&nav=0RbQ




http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=5861517&nav=0RbQ
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Yawn, Again!
I was an adult during this time. I was THERE! I know what was going on, and if you think a former president is going to rip another former president, you haven't been paying attention for the last 40 years. Carter's view is apropos of nothing. He had no choice but to say the nicest things he could think to say.
The Professor
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. WRONG!!! (Again)
If memeory serves me, Carter issued only a very terse statement on the death of Richard Nixon and a similary concise statement when Reagan died.

The idea that Carter's praise of Ford is somehow "canned" or "according to form" is nonsense. You just can't accept that there are reasonable people with positions contrary to your own. GROW UP!
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. I Can't Accept It?
You're kidding, right? You start the thread as a morality lecture, and i can't accept people with contrary positions? If you can accept it, why start the thread?

Talk about being wrong! You take the cake. If you had a point to make, you could have made it without castigating those with counter positions. But you didn't. When someone came along to disagree, (me or anyone else on this thread) you kneejerked. You are the one who can't accept it. That's pretty obvious.
The Professor
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. True, I could have shown your grace and maturity.
:puke:
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. When Does The Lecture End?
Boy, do you ever not get it? My objection to your whole thread was that you're lecturing people on how they should think and react. I don't need your advice. And, you're certainly not going to convince me by proving how dense you can be.
The Professor
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. I'm Trying To Understand Your Logic
I hope your students don't struggle as much as I am...


Let's see...


You speculated that Nixon appointed Ford vice president in return for being pardoned when he resigned and Ford became president in the absence of any evidence.


You are now speculating that Carter's admiration and sadness at Ford's passing is disingenuous in the presence of evidence to the contrary.


In my humble opinion (plebeian) you would be on firmer ground just saying you didn't like the fella....


The Plebeian


P. S. Presidents Ford and Carter were at several public appearances where they expressed their fondness for one another.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #52
67. OK. You've Answered My Prior Question
You're being dense.

My first post, and others on this topic make it clear that "i don't like the fella." I think the idea that somehow i'm supposed to show respect for a guy, now that he's dead, when i didn't respect him when he was alive is foolish. And, i'm not going to be shamed into changing my opinion by a poster on DU. This thread was started taking those of us who didn't like him and didn't think much of him to task. I'm not going to take that. I don't need a lecture in manners.

You keep asking me for proof. Yet you don't bother to provide same when you make the statement you just made. Find one example of an ex-president saying something untoward about another ex-president. I say Carter had to say it. You are now saying it was based upon true fondness. I asking you to prove me wrong by finding just one example of one ex-prez saying a bad thing about another ex-prez, especially upon the death of one of them.

Remember that Carter, Clinton, and 41 all find nice things to say about Nixon when he died. You really think they thought that highly of him? They felt obligated to say it. You really believe Carter thought highly of Nixon? I seriously doubt it.

And, 41 and Clinton hung around together after the Tsunami and in New Orleans relief efforts. That doesn't mean they're really friends, does it? Ex-presidents say nice things about the members of the very exclusive club to which they belong.

The Professor
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #67
74. Let's Review Your Arguments
Even though there is no evidence that Ford pardoned Nixon for political gain you are arguing that he did.


Even though there is evidence that Carter was genuinely fond of Ford you are arguing that he wasn't.



Besides Carter's statements there is evidence in the public record (appearances) where Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter expressed fondness of Gerald and Betty Ford and vice versa...


I saw some of these appearances with my own eyes. Who am I to believe?


The Professor?



or


My lying eyes?




The Plebeian
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #67
75. 41 and Clinton ARE good friends.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:53 AM by deaniac21
Neither will ever be as murderously evil as Ford though.
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
173. You are condescending and rude
with that continuous " yawn" thing.

Do you feel so " above" it all, that this
is all so very boring?

I pity your students, if indeed you
are a "professor".

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
89. Context is everything
Compared to his peers, and the Republicans who came after, he was a good man.

He didn't create Cheney and Rumsfeld. He didn't create Reagan and two Bushes. He fought a low-key war to preserve a moderate Republican tradition against the encroaching fascism in his party.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
161. Another Warren Commission member bites the dust.
Long live JFK's memory !
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
177. Probably not a real professor.
At least, for the students of America, I hope not...
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Finally! A post in this thread that I can agree with!
Thanks, Prof....
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4bucksagallon Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Amen he pardoned Tricky Dicky and that alone is cause to dislike the man................
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. LOL
good one prof!

sometimes I don't recognize sarcasm here.

You almost had me.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. No kidding, Professor. Since when do we celebrate collaborators.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
77. That's about my take on it, too
I was a working adult then, too, and you called it the way it was.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
121. ProfessorGAC, et, al, there is a time and place,...
and this is neither. Let the man rest.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
122. The backroom deal had to be made with BOTH parties, Professor
Otherwise, Congress would have given Ford a much harder time on other issues than it did. Ford would have been politically tortured by a Democratic Congress hell-bent on prosecution; as it was, the pardon stood and other business took front and center. Either the Dems saw the advantage in hanging the albatross of the pardon around Ford's neck in the next election, or they agreed that moving on was the best thing for the nation. (Or, if you really want to don the tinfoil, both parties were into the coverup.)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
145. Yep. We have arrived at a place in time where, if someone lives a LONG life
and gets decrepit & sick, it cancels out anything "odd or untoward" in their lifetime.

Reagan's illness prevented the criticism due him, and made him a saintly off-limits old sick guy. Ford was not an "evil" man, and I'm sure he was a loving father/husband/grandpa, but he was also our PRESIDENT. His "job" performance was where the rub came in.

He was handpicked by the guy who got pardoned..That smells.. it smelled then, and it smells still.

he served for a very short period of time, and his main achievement was to let Nixon off the hook.

He lived to a ripe old age, had the best medical care , and was in relative good health until recently.. I'm sure his family will miss him, and my sympathies are with them, but that still does not change what happened during his presidency :)
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. Rereading your post again
and I have to agree about Betty Ford. I always liked her. What a great woman. I think that might be why all this nastiness really bothers me.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. I was there as well and our opinions are 180 degrees apart!
Yes I believe he was a good human being but a better Republican! He let the criminals walk and did nothing to prevent it from happening again.

His wife and family were probably the most normal that have ever occupied the WH.

My sympathies go out to Mrs. Ford and their children as well.

We are not all youngsters here ya know.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Didn't mean to imply that everyone here are "kids"
I just alwasy get a bit bemused by being told by how the 1970's were by those who weren't even born yet.

My great-uncle used to have the same reaction to all the young stars talking about their "experiences" making World War II-related movies. Uncle John said once "It's nice that they want to make these movies, but the shrapnel in my shoulder knows more about that time than than these kids ever will."
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
214. You are joking, yes

Did NOTHING to try to prevent future abuses of government power?

You jest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_President's_Commission_on_CIA_activities_within_the_United_States

The U.S. President's Commission on CIA activities within the United States was set up under President Gerald Ford in 1975 to investigate the activities of the Central Intelligence Agency and other intelligence agencies within the United States. The commission was led by the Vice President, Nelson Rockefeller, and is sometimes referred to as the Rockefeller Commission.

The commission was created in response to a December 1974 report in The New York Times that the CIA had conducted illegal domestic activities, including experiments on U.S. citizens, during the 1960s. The commission issued a single report in 1975, touching upon certain CIA abuses including mail opening and surveillance of domestic dissident groups. It publicised Project MKULTRA, a CIA mind control study. It also studied issues relating to the John F. Kennedy assassination, specifically the head snap as seen in the Zapruder film (first shown publicly in 1975), and the possible presence of E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis in Dallas, Texas.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sorry, but the man was an enabler,
He enabled those who would thwart justice twice, once as a member of the Warren Commission, and once when he pardoned Nixon. Two instances when justice was sorely lacking.

I too am old enough to remember when Nixon was in power, and the reaction to Ford's pardon. We all knew it was coming from the minute that Ford was selected, yet were still outraged that Tricky Dick, the man who had broken so many laws, and cost us so many lives, was able to get away scot-free, thanks to Ford.

Sorry, I will never forgive him for this. Yes, he seemed like an ordinary guy, the loveable everyman. But sadly that facade only served to cover for the fact that this man also was aiding and abetting those who would do this country evil, not once, but twice.

He gets no pass in my book.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. I agree with you. The one thing Ford did was work with everyone
Many at DU may not realize that Ford and Carter over the years are extremely close

As far as impeachment, it was an interesting time. I think Ford did the right thing for the country.

To extrapolate everything about republicans to this administration is not only unfair, but lacks critical thinking

Nixon was not all bad either:

He started the EPA, tried to get us away from being dependency on mideast oil, opened relations with China, and recognized that we needed to get out of Viet Nam. None of this exonerates him from the illegal and anti-constitutional activities he was part of, but he is not just Watergate

However, the current administration has NO redeeming values. Everything they have touched has turned to disaster, and the activities they are involved in are far worse than the Nixon administration


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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. But The Difference Between The Two Is Ford Was A Basically Decent Human Being
eom
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
76. Your basic decent human being protected the Pinochet government.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #76
117. and Johnson escallated the Viet Nam war based on LIES
still he provided revolutionary policies on civil rights and social programs

Incidently, what Johnson did for civil rights, has been used as one of the reasons why the Democrats lost the South, but it was the right thing to do. At that time it said volumes about the Democratic party, and how the Republicans, then embraced racism, and won the South, Nixon's southern strategy, which was deplorable, yet Nixon did establish the EPA, fight and loose the grip of big oil on this country, and other things

It is very difficult to pain a person with a single brush

There is only one administration in my lifetime I know that you can paint with a single brush, and that is the current one. I can say nothing positive about them


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #117
136. The two wrongs argument doen't work.
It doesn't work especially well if you know a family who lost a loved one in the most horrible. way.

Broad brush? I agree, it's not a useful way to think about people.

This asshole signed off on torture and killing because he was up for re-election.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #136
168. First of all I agree nixon is an AH, and there is no justification with the overthrow of Allende
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 10:30 PM by still_one
and what was done in our name to the people of Chile

There is no justification what was done in our name to the people of Viet Nam either

After reconsideration, looking back at everything the Nixon administration did, he should have been impeached, and what Ford did was a very bad prescient

Unfortunately, I do not have much confidence if Congress finds evidence of impeachable crimes with the bush administration that anything will change





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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #76
125. He had Vietnam on his plate at the time. That filled it. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #125
135. Yeah, so f%ck all those little brown people that were tortured and killed.
SOP
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #135
169. No, I didn't say that. nt
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
113. Absolutely, and my feelings differ about impeachment with this administration than Nixon
This administration has absolutely NO REDEEMING VALUES, and they do NOT have the countries interests at heart. In fact it is just the opposite. Whether it is destroying our environment, making us less energy independent, and treating corporations as the government, there is a insidious about this administration which if found guilty MUST BE IMPEACHED

Nixon was a different time. Nixon's vice president was also a real AH. Today, I may feel different about impeachment of Nixon than before, but at the time I didn't think impeachment was good for the country.

The bush administration is a different story, impeach if investigation shows they have committed crimes. It is essential


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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
132. the one thing he did was work with everyone? how many vetoes...
...in 2 1/2 years?

working with congress?

how many vetoes under Nixon in his six and a half years?

do some reading, please
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. Sorry, but this needs answered...
"As a final note, to blame Ford for Cheney and Rumsfeld is just reaching. Yes, both of these guys served in the Ford Administration. At the same time, neither of these guys showed the megalomaniacal, sociopathic tendencies they now show. Classic example of "power corrupts"."

Um, no. This is nothing like an example of 'power corrupts'.

At that time they displayed all of the tendencies they display now. They were known as 'the crazies' then. They are responsible for talking Ford into vetoing the FOIA fer christ-sakes. At a time when open government was truly needed these are the people who manipulated the 'honest blockhead' into closing government further. Thankfully the senate over-rode the veto.

This is the guy who kept Kissinger on as Sec of State, which lead to the Timor atrocities and the Israel at all cost doctrine.

This is the guy who put Rumsfeld at the helm of the DOD when the last thing the country needed was the implementation of Straussian beliefs.

We needed Eisenhower or Roosevelt (Teddy) and got Charlie fucking Brown.

My condolences to Betty, the man she knew was not the man who led.

-Hoot

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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
61. Perfectly put. You separated the man that Betty loved, from the politics.
Which is what I think is appropriate.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. I always resented the jokes and laughing at his stumbling and yes
he was a nice guy, but he was a go-along and complicit politician in the Republican Party and the truth must come out. All those people who are now interested in politics becuase of what is happening to the country, but whose knowledge blurs about the rottenness of the Republican Party at that time cannot have their opinion blurred out watching all the lies on Time-Warner and GE/Microsfot.

Yes, he was not vicious - he was old fashioned courteous and somewhat laid back politician and good family man, but what he agreed to let happen on many fronts was not honorable for the country. They were despicable acts. He was smart enough to know what was going on. He knew the law. He knew manipulation and lying to the country.

The truth must be exposed. The truth hurts.

(I am not implying that the Democrat Party is perfect. Hardly.)
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
84. he was a drunk, drunks fall down
i don't resent people expressing what we all at the time knew, which was that nixon had put the nuclear codes in the hands of a man who could barely stand on his own two feet for the drinking

betty cleaned up her act, jerry didn't
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #84
127. Where is your proof of this? Ford a drunk?
I was 22 when he took office, and I don't remember that "we all knew" this. At all.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
131. I Don't Know Any Unrehabilitated Alchoholics Who Could Live To Ninety Three.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 04:05 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
I suspect a pathologist would tell you that's impossible.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #131
146. Thank you.
I don't think he was a drunk either. The meanness that comes out on DU sometimes is just sad.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #131
152. you weren't around in the ford era, were you? he was a well known drunk
plenty of drunks, the rich ones, do live to a ripe old age

while holding the office of president, gerald ford was so drunk, so often, that he could not stand or walk

he was a disgrace to the nation that he disrespected w. his behavior

yes, nixon drank, kennedy drank, they all drank back in the 50s, 60s, 70s...but you know what? for all the pills and booze, kennedy did not fall down staggering in public, nor did nixon, they knew how to maintain a measure of decorum

chevy chase's entire career was based on ford's problem w. maintaining his equilibrium

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #152
170. I've NEVER heard he was a drunk. Ever. nt
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #131
153. i guess you never heard of the queen mother of england
she lived to be 101, drinking a quart of gin every day, and she wasn't embarrassed to say so either

that's right, when asked how she lived to be 100, she attributed it to the gin

i suggest you look it up, it's a matter of history and not very distant history either, when did she die, maybe 5 years ago?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #153
171. Bombay, Beefeater, Gordon's, she didn't care so long as it was cold.
And she had her marbles up to the end. Amazin'.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #153
198. Now you are gonna piss me off if you're going after Mum
Edited on Thu Dec-28-06 09:49 AM by cwydro
She may have had a few drinks everyday, but that is far from being a drunk. No offense, but I'm thinking you're a friend of Bill's. And I do not mean Clinton.

I have never met a reformed drunk who didn't hate anyone else who drinks.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #84
178. You're gonna have to prove this one!
eom
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
23. he was one of the bland, ineffectual repukes
who uncomplainingly allowed the neocon movement to take over their party

he was a reliable whitewasher whenever the RW authoritarians needed an inside man

he was 100% part of the problem and no part of the solution in the repuke party's stunningly huge thefts of our national wealth and in this country's slide into overt fascism

that he lived to be 93 and died comfortably is proof there is no justice in America
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Yikes
"that he lived to be 93 and died comfortably is proof there is no justice in America"

You would wish death on someone? That is some serious hatred you got going on there.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. a sense of justice does not require hatred
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
27. If you can't say anything good, sometimes it's best to say....
nothing...
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
64. Free speech is to be cherished, even when someone dies.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:39 AM by WinkyDink
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
68. Oh, the irony of you saying that on DU
So nothing bad should be said of Bush? Republicans?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
187. If you can't say anything good, sometimes it's best
to come sit by me.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
29. I agree. Thanks for the post.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
33. Very nice post
I am also old enough to have lived through that time. Even as a partisan Democrat who canvassed for McGovern, at the time putting Nixon far behind us seemed the right thing to do. The idea that he would ever be rehabilitated seemed unlikely - his evil was known and we thought never forgotten.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #33
55. And Nixon never really was "rehabilitated"...
Nixon remained a somewhat-pariah the rest of his days. Given his ego, that must have been just galling.

Sure, he made appearances on talk shows. Most of these involved discussions of his books on foreign policy which, for all of his evil, Nixon had a very commanding understanding of). he was never sought out for political counsel (at least in public) and was NEVER invited to attend another Republican Convention.

When Tricky Dick died, I wondered how they were going to handle protocol. When I sww that he was not going to have a Sate Funeral, but only a funeral in California, I thought "Good". I had no personal hatred for the man and did not rejoice in his death, but was glad that the State Funeral was not considered.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
85. He was even rejected by a NYC co-op board
and refused the right to purchase a co-op there.

Over time, as you said, he was given credit for his expertise. I had forgotten that he did not get a state funeral - his is pretty damning for an ex-President.

I knew he was never attended another convention - but didn't know he wasn't invited.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. "Invited" is a relative term...
Nixon apologists say he didn't feel it was his place, but others are more blunt: The last person any Republican wanted to be seen with was Richard Nixon." Even after his blow-out defeat, they always gave Barry Goldwater speaking slots.

Man, an ex-president being rejected by a co-op. That's so sad its almost funny.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #91
128. Yep - that was NYC and it was years after he was out of office
The Democrats were pretty pathetic in not giving Carter a speaking slot in 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996 and 2000. Kerry, in 2004, gave slots to Carter, Gore and all his primary opponents.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. It's not "decent' to let criminals evade justice.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #34
182. So You Were Opposed To the Amnesty Program

...for Vietnam draft resisters, which Ford started?

They were criminals and they were evading justice. President Ford, in your opinion, did the wrong thing by providing an amnesty program for them.

Man, you're tough.
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rtassi Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
35. Unfortunately
You left out his participation and rubber stamping of the Warren report ... allowing some those who are still in power to go merrily on their way to continue to oppress, kill, and destroy ... but what the heck, he did cook his own breakfast!
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
38. the bashing is good
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:00 AM by Zensea
It inspires me to update my ignore list and include some of the more over the top bashers.

:)
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dad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
180. I love the bashing
I will update my ignore list to include those who wish to kiss Gerald Ford's Republican ass.

City to Ford: Drop Dead
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #180
208. yeah, those folk also
:evilgrin:
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
41. That's how I remember him too
and we all loved Betty. Ford was admirable on many levels, supporting Betty was one of them.

I can't read the trash Ford threads which I'm sure contain the answer to my question, but I've forgotten who Rummy and Cheney pushed out? There was some "coup" they did to get power under Ford. Anyone here remember?
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
43. Great post, thank you.
I really don't see Ford as a greedy, selfish, power-hungry man, unlike certain other presidents. I really think he was doing what he thought was best to heal the country.

Very classy post. And it will be one of the few on this topic that I will proudly K+R.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
46. People are saying that Ford was not very bright.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:06 AM by tblue37
I happened to run across this little detail:

"A job as assistant football coach at Yale gave him an opportunity to attend Yale Law School, from which he graduated in the top third of his class in 1941."

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0760622.html

It sounds to me as though he was a bright kid who used his athletic skills to further his education. The idea that he was rather dim seems to be another media creation.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
87. people are saying? lyndon johnson was saying, actually
it was no media creation, lbj was perhaps the first to say in public that jerry ford played too much football without a helmet, but ford was famous for being one of these smiling dummies in a perpetual fog

the man could not stand up, he was constantly drunk to the point of falling down even as president

he got where he was because nixon had to appoint someone who was in a fog and easily used

his issues of being a bear of very little brain were not media inventions, they were facts well known to anyone aware of the news of the day

athletes back in the day had many ways of obtaining good grades other than actually doing the work, this was just a reality of college life in the 20th century that athletes were treated differently

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #87
185. This is absolutely sick and nasty! Stupid athletes do NOT
graduate in the top third of Yale Law School.And I NEVER heard that Gerry was a drunk .Ever. And I was very involved with politics through my family. You just hate Ford and this is an evil and classless post. It is this type of nastiness that causes progressives to lose elections. They can't give anyone else credit for anything and respect no one but themselves.Thwere are NO perfect politicians.I am grateful that Ford was as decent as he was.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
48. Honesty doesn't equal bashing
Ford was a decent human being who didn't realize how thoroughly indecent the people around him were. He was in over his head. It's important that history be told accurately.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #48
147. Very good point.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 07:09 PM by cwydro
I think that decent people often can not even conceive of how deceitful and rotten people can be. I still can not understand Cheney and Rumsfeld. They are rotten through and through. Bush is just clueless. I truly think his brain is fried from the drug and alcohol use.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
50. Excellent post, thank you for sharing it.
Some very good points, and I agree that all the hate thrown at him here is very disheartening. Maybe it will open some people's eyes.
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
54. I agree. I am uncomfortable with Ford bashing, as he was a decent man.
Not every Republican is evil, conniving or money grubbing. Ford played the position of president like he played golf. He liked all the opponents, played by the rules and got along with everybody. Why must we treat him so terribly in death? Let the man rest in peace. He never hurt us like those we see today.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Yes,
and some of these gleeful grave-dancers will no doubt be furious when RWers celebrate the passing of one of our own heroes.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #56
72. Do you understand what grave dancing means?
I haven't seen any here not one post has said he is dead good for us, not one. Please highlight an example of Grave dancing on this board if you will.

The very best of us can make a mistake and thats all I am reading here today.

But you can pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you are a better person than those who do not share your OPINION because thats all this is about. Opinions and you are entitled to yours.

I suspect you have little or no memory of the period. All is not forgiven in death, if it were we would have a statue of Hitler at the WWII memorial in DC. And a statue for Tim McVie in Oklahoma.

I have heard Zero demonetization of Jerrold Ford.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
96. You would be wrong to believe I have no memory of the period.
I was a registered Democrat then. As I am now.

I will not respond to anything else in your post; comparing Ford to Hitler or a terrorist is just ridiculous.

Might want to start using spell-check there, bud.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #96
200. spell check , oh thank you, wouldnt want to have you guess my meaning.
Good for you, I also was a registered Democrat at the time as I am today and was living in Washington DC at the time.

Say what you want but remember its your opinion and thats all it is.


Bud
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #96
204. LISTEN BUD! I asked you to show an example of Grave Dancing in this thread or board.
So where is the Grave Dancing here? That was the Important question to you. The one you avoided because of my analogy to Hitler and Tim Mcvie. You replied to my request with a put down. Well sir or madam, you are making accusations that are unfounded. Next time you accuse someone of grave dancing you might want to substantiate your case. You havent, and than you call my analogy ridiculous.

I left out some punctuation so you can have another thing to fault me on, oh exulted spell checker.

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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #204
205. OK bud
see sandnsea's post for the response on grave dancing.

But I apologize for the snarky grammar comment. I mean that. And you cracked me up signing your post - bud!

I just love anyone with a sense of humor....and you obviously have that.



exulted spell checker.:hi:
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #205
216. Ok its not fair making me laugh and like you, it is an unfair tactic!
thanks for the chuckle, you remind me that we are of the same mind on the important issues facing our nations issues today and in our mutual struggle to restore the principles on which our nation was founded. I hope you dont mind if I refer to you as Comrade.

Best in the New Year to you cwydro! :patriot: :hi:
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #216
220. And happy New Year to you too!
Let's hope for the best for our troubled nation:hi: :dem:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #72
157. Here
"may he rest in piss"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2983312

I don't understand these kinds of posts to begin with - but the denial that this sort of thing ALWAYS happens at DU boggles my mind even more.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
57. I'm sure he was a nice man.. but they're piling it on today.
Ford was a tool.. a tool hand-picked by Nixon to make sure he and his cronies avoided jail time. What the republican press is describing as "uniting the country" is just ridiculous. He was a temp, he did what the repubs asked him to do, gave those pardons. I'm sorry when any human dies, sorry for his family who is mourning him, but seeing him portrayed as some great American healer, is just hideous.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. He really did help to heal the nation...
As for all of the "over-the-top" stuff, that always happens when somebody dies. While I admired Princess Diana, that out-pouring of grief was really excessive, too. And let's not forget the "orgy of nostalgia" that came when Ronald Reagan died.

That's just part of our "media grief protocol". The only person I can think of who's death was "under-hyped" was Mother Theresa, and that's because the whole world was still obsessing over Diana's death to bother with the Saint of the Gutters.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #62
206. another absolutely ludicrous comparison.
ford and reagan on the one hand and diana on the other.

the stupidity keeps piling up.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #57
69. Why are you sure?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
63. Was he a Republican? I'm holding the praise, TYVM.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:38 AM by WinkyDink
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
65. Very well put.... I agree with you....
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
70. Ford was the kind of Republican we used to have
Even though his staff was made up of some real assholes (Dole, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfwitz) they were all Nixon appoitees who stayed on.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
73. Ford was the last moderate Rethug president, that's for sure.
I have mixed feelings on Jerry Ford. If you ever have a chance, listen to his 1976 Rethug convention speech. I did during a replay of it on C-SPAN in 2004. It will absolutely show that today's Democratic party is the Rethug party of 1976. That's how much things have shifted to the right. Jerry Ford was just about the best that the Rethug party could offer up, especially compared to Raygun and Raisinbrain.

My heart goes out to Betty Ford. A great first lady.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
79. K&R
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
80. You are right
On the one hand I don't put him in the category of evil with bush, cheney, rummy and pappy. I know this sounds callous but I'm not that concerned about him. He lived a long life and his family and friends will miss him I won't begrudge that. For those hell bent on reminding everyone of the evils of the ford presidency it seems strange that they weren't picking away at him last week before he died. :shrug:

If he was the monster that those proclaim he was I would think we would of had many a thread about it here right along with the I hate bush threads.

In the grander scheme he just wasn't that important. Sorry if some feel that way.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
82. what's disheartening about it?
if anything i am heartened that we still have a few people around who actually remember the ford era (you don't seem to, except thru rose-colored glasses) and who refuse to put any creedence in revisionist history merely because an old brain-damaged drunk finally died

ford was a bad man, cheney was his chief of staff who was mentored by ford, as cheney says himself, not a random intern in a white house cast of thousands

ford was a bad man who let himself be used by bad men to get an office he could otherwise never have hoped to get

it is wrong to move beyond the past when we have not had justice for the past

too many evil men have lived a full life and died at home in bed without ever facing consequence of their actions, pinochet and ford are just two of them

agree that his wife was a nice lady and my sympathy goes out to her, i have often wondered what it was like to be an outspoken advocate for facing addiction fearlessly and yet to have to go home to a man who never, ever, once acknowledged the role of addiction in his inability to be anything but a puppet on a string, a man who literally had trouble standing on his own two feet because of the drink

"our long national nightmare" was not over because ford declared it over by fiat, people need justice, and in a just world criminals pay for their crimes

but of course nixon was white, male, rich, and powerful -- why should he stand before judgement in court of law, in the usa the law is only for the poor and those of color and those without power

it makes me sick that anyone can sit here and mourn jerry ford

i stand for equality under the law, jerry ford put nixon above the law

i'm sure he's frying in hell right now and i don't feel a bit sorry for anyone except his wife who seems like a great lady who must have lived a very strange and contradictory life
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #82
101. Who was asking about "grave dancing" posts
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 12:58 PM by Mortos
See the above for an example of a gleeful waltz on the grave of President Ford. "an old brain damaged drunk finally died"?

I don't know about your personal experiences with Gerald Ford and drinking, I can only assume by your posts that you either poured them for him and firsthand witnessed his debauchery or that you are making shit up.

My experience with old drunks (and I have had more than one in my family) is that they don't live to be 93 years old. The G.I. bleeds and liver failure get them way before that.

Dance away, dance away.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #101
150. Oh Mortos!
Thank you so much for your post. I have been busy for hours and just now saw the post you responded too. "Frying in hell"? My god, what karma these posters are flirting with saying these horrid things about a man who died.

Dance away indeed. I hope that whatever pitiful existence these posters live is somehow made better by their glee at a human being's death.

But how awful. I will never feel such hate.

And for that I am grateful.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
83. Very, Very Well Said. No Flames Here. Your OP Was Quite Thoughful And Intelligent.
My sympathies go out to Mrs. Ford and their children as well.
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BlueStater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
88. Thank you
I though I was going crazy. I never once expected the amount of hate that would be displayed here when Ford died. Reagan, yes. But not Ford.

For all his flaws, I never once thought Ford had evil intentions. You can't say the same about some of the later Republican presidents.

I'm not going to crucify the man for hiring scum like Rumsfeld and Cheney. That was 30 years ago. He, like all of us, probably had no idea they would become as bad as they have.

Anyway, I'd just like to say I find the amount of hate I've seen today really disheartening.
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Oleladylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #88
164. Interesting you should say that... a couple of days ago I deleted
the desktop "link to DU" because of the garbage that was filling the pages here..but, tonight, out of respect, I thought I would see what take was had about President Ford and his passing. For the most part I can see removing the link was the sane thing to do..I hope DU doesn't self implode with nastiness..Opinions are one thing but really!!!
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beth9999 Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
90. Feh... He was an unelected Repug...
... much like the one in office now. About the only good thing that could be said about him is that unlike Reagan, Bush and Bush II, he didn't steal any elections.

Good riddance to all Repugs when they go.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. Another prime example of DU immaturity!!
"Good riddance to all Repugs when they go". This possible is THE most ignorant statement I have ever seen here on DU. In your logic, the assassination of Lincoln was a good thing for the country? And I'm sure you're glad that that monster Teddy Roosevelt only got 60 years to rape and pillage our national landmarks, huh? Again, to invetrt your logic, you will cry a river of tears when DEMOCRAT Zell Miller checks out. Also, don't forget to send flowers to the graves of Geroge Wallace, Ben Tillman, and Lester Maddox. (Waits paitently while beth999 has to Google those names)

And, as much as I loathed Ronald Reagan, he never stole an election. He did a lot of damage to our country, but the American people elected him in two landslides.
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beth9999 Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #95
109. Nah, I knew who they are/were
"Repug" doesn't always mean "Republican" (although in the modern sense it probably does). Party ideaologies change over times -- let's not forget that the Democratic Party of the early part of the 20th century is not one that we would be proud of. So, no, while Lincoln and TR were Republicans, the name had a different meaning then.

Todays Republicans, for the most part, *are* REPUGS. There may be one or two exceptions, but I doubt it.

Zell Miller, while a DEMOCRAT, is one in name only. For all practical purposes, he's a Repug. The same could be said for most conservative Dems.

And lastly, the 1980 and 84 elections (as well as 88, 2000 and 2004) *were* stolen. I refuse to believe that anyone (outside of most Repugs who are so stupid that they just follow orders from the top without thinking for themselves) could be stupid enough to vote for Reagan.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
92. Thank you for this thread
As one who actually lived through that time, I am really disheartened by the amount of hatred being expressed today.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
93. When presidents die, people say nice things, & rotten things
It never bothers me, they are all celebrities, the politicians, the actors, etc., but when politicians die, they will be lionized AND scorned.

It truly doesn't bother me.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
97. Well Said! n/t
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DaveT Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
98. It is amazing that we even have to discuss bashing a dead man.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 12:56 PM by DaveT
It is like a time warp.

Ford is a link back to the Eisenhower Era for the GOP.

In those salad days for William F. Buckley's National Review, the modern "conservative" movement was born in frustration with the intellectual surrender to the New Deal that the Eisenhower Administration represented. Ike and Republicans like Ford believed that the "liberal" initiatives that were enacted in response to the Great Depression were a fait accompli, an aspect of a new national consensus about what kind of country we are. They regarded Republicanism as a better and more frugal way to manage the new Big Government and as a way to question and limit new Government programs.

Buckley and politicians like Barry Goldwater considered this an abject surrender of Republican principles. For more than two decades, they built their political strength and by 1976, the "conservative" movement came within a handful of delegates of tossing Ford out on his ass at the GOP Convention.

Since then, the nature of American politics has turned toward the virulent and the irrational -- a direct result of the right wing's contempt for the idea of compromise and consensus.



Ford's career in Congress included some cheap bullshit like his campaign to impeach William Douglas off the Supreme Court, but, in general, he was a guy who worked within the old Congressional system to pass legislation through the committee system of compromise and deal making. As his later public pronouncements indicate, he had no use for Slash and Burn politics -- for trying to destroy the opposition with accusation and invective.

That base line attitude about politics was banished from the GOP when Newt Gingrich woke up one morning to find himself the Speaker of the House of Representatives -- the position that Ford wanted, but could never attain playing by his gentlemanly rules.

Democracy absolutely demands the idea that we can disagree with each other without condemning each other as scoundrels, liars or traitors. Ford represents a GOP tradition that I sincerely hope can be revived -- he is a man you could respect while disagreeing with him

The unfortunate noise we are hearing that heaps invective on this dead man is an echo of the Gingrich game plan, which grew out of the Nixon campaigns, which drew their inspiration from Joe McCarthy. We can find fault with Ike and Ford for not smacking down Tailgunner Joe, Tricky Dick and Newtie within their own party. But their own record in public life shows that they really were different.

If we refuse to respect people we disagree with, we will suffer the same fate as Newt Gingrich -- who is now campaigning in New Hampshire on the premise that Bush just isn't tough enough on "terror."

To respect a centrist is not to become a centrist or to agree with a centrist. It is just the way democracy has to work.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #98
106. Very Eloquent post. Thank You!
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
99. The hate is real for the crimes committed
pardoning Nixon and having Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz on staff.

I don't forgive war crimes, torturers, murderers, conspiracies to mislead Americans, stealing elections, lying to Congress, etc...

Gee what a horrible person I am huh? BARFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
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beth9999 Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. Well, to be fair...
... Ford never stole an election.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
102. Nothing "moderate" in the massacre of East Timor. A holocaust.
Ford made it possible. Successor presidents did their part to help,too. It is also true many presidents would have told Suharto they had no problem with an attack on East Timor, since it was not inhabited by Europeans...

But the fact remains Ford and Kissinger (Nixon's evil friend) happened to be in power when Suharto decided to go into East Timor. Had they signaled that military aid to the regime would be in jeopardy, it is likely Suharto would not have invaded.

200,000 died as a result.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
103. Another post mortem lecture, admonishing DUers that they aren't being polite enough
:eyes:

This always happens - a lecture to be "respectful", a plea to gloss over faults until some specified time has passed (and nobody will say how long that mourning period may be when it's finally okay to unleash the truth). Information that portrays Ford in a negative light is asked to be suppressed until nobody is paying attention anymore imho. It's as though any kind of post that MIGHT enlighten people by pointing out some really glaring problems (or even criminal behavior - gasp!), or expressing any kind of honesty that isn't fawning of the deceased has to be censured until ... when?

This is a message board ferchrissakes! If you can't suck it up and endure some conflicting opinions (and those of us who laugh at wakes or show up late for the funeral or whatever other breach of etiquette you feel obligated to admonish us about) then why are you here?? This is DU - a fairly rough and tumble place of conflicting ideas, personalities and POVs.


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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. Thanks Rider
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michaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Unleashing truth
is not the problem. The way it is conveyed is. There is nothing wrong with being polite. There are many polite ways to say things and still get your point across. Being a member of DU is not a reason or excuse to act like a jerk! Actually, I would rather see that kind of garbage left to the Republicans. I have no problem tolerating other's views. I do have a problem with how it is done!
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Get used to it michaz. If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen and all....
Welcome to DU (for as long as you can endure us "jerks" who actually care about the truth).

:evilfrown:
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michaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Gee, that is a response to someone else's opinion?
Once again I guess my point is proven.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #103
141. Well said
Most of the posters seem motivated by the principals of Public Relations, as if the priamry concern of this board is how DU is portrayed in the media...

Can we finally disband the "Lets not look bad to the freepers" committee?
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
108. I agree. Politics is so mean spirited these days and Ford represented
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 01:16 PM by WI_DEM
a time when there really was bi-partisanship on some issues.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
112. Thank you so much for posting this & veering away from some of the ugliness posted here!
May President Ford rest in peace, and may his family be comforted in their grief.

(I, too, am old enough to remember the Ford Administration and Watergate.)

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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #112
123. Do you remember East Timor?
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
114. I don't know how else to say it, but this post is pure wool.
It's a product of shepherds -- nothing more, nothing less.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
115. I guess people of every political tendency can be assholes.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
116. Ford never even showed up while his wife was having surgery, played golf instead, - real trooper!!
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
118. We are better than this.................. nt
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #118
142. Apparently we're not
but I wish we were. The hate spewing forth reminds me somewhat of freeperland, not DU.

RIP President Ford.

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. How about I wished we were?............... nt
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
119. Maybe if President Kennedy had his way there would have been no Nixon, Ford, Regan or Bushes.
President Gerald R. Ford showed that he was a firm believer that the American people should be kept in the dark and not know the truth about things Unlike President Kennedy who might have been getting ready too blow the lid off of some dark evil secrets Secrets that if brought out into the light could have brought down some very rich, powerful and evil men that possibly now control the country. If you listen too JFKs Speech on Secret Societies and Freedom of the Press you can either say; JFK was a conspiracy theory nut, or you can believe he knew what he was talking about, and believe that possibly he was about too do or expose something or someone that cost him his life! In this speech you can also see the plague of corruption and deceit that has engulfed American politics and our democracy after his death. Gerald Ford helped cover up Kennedys assassination and the deceit and corruption surrounding Nixon. Why did Fords death make me think of this Kennedy speech? Its the secrets and cover-ups, you decide!

?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdEu7wFaaK0&mode=related&search=
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #119
183. There would have been, however, a Vietnam
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
120. I'm not going to say anything nice about him, but I will not bash him...
...on the day he dies.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
126. Thanks for the post. It's needed here today.
At least those on the Greatest thread with the most votes are able to experience one more joyous event this season, apparently. Even if they can't distinguish between George W. Bush and Gerald Ford. I disagreed with Ford's policies, but I did not hate the man, and find no reason to believe that his pardon of Nixon was a "deal." I'll go along with Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter on their evaluation of the man, and as a native Michigander, see no reason for the venom that is a waste of time when the "surge" is coming - expend energies there, please.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
129. The fact is..
Ford & Nixon were a dark stain on the fabric of America. This is the end of a dark chapter in US history.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #129
154. The END???!!!
No offense, but are you paying attention??

You know what, I would take Ford in a heartbeat over who is in the White House now.

Sheesh.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
130. Disheartening how?????
by revealing the truth about ford and his complete shill republicanism?

The guy was a tool.

I ask you? How am I supposed to respect someone who pardons nixon? It had nothing to do with the good of the nation, it had everything to do with preserving the republican party. If you ever believe anything more than that, I have a bridge to sell you.

At first opportunity, I'm going to find his grave and dance a jig on it.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
134. The "DU Party Line"?
:eyes:

I've seen plenty of people posting positive things about ford today. Some people, on the other hand, don't like him and have dared criticize a public figure. You've said some nice things about the man, and I'm glad that you feel positively towards him. But the "DU party line" whine is always good for a laugh.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #134
139. Ah the old "DU party line" schtick.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 04:45 PM by Bluebear
You are right, fish, I saw plenty and I mean plenty of posts complimentary to Ford here, but you (OP) go ahead and pull that party line whine out of the fire to use again.
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thingfisher Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
137. An honest blockhead?
Ford was merely performing a service for the ruling elite. The fact that he appeared to be an pretty nice guy, cooked his own breakfast, etc. ad nauseum helped defuse the publics outrage over the excesses of the Nixon years.
Thanks Jerry for keeping the truth about the rottenness at the soul of America from seeping out and upsetting all the people!

Even Nixon was buried with a hell of a lot of undeserved praise!
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
138. I agree with ya.
Watergate was a soap opera, that could rival the nighttime soap opera Dallas for its sordid intrigue.

Granted Dallas happened after Watergate -- it's one thing to see Dallas with fictional characters with little consequence to the nation (except the national fetish about who shot JR?) -- the Watergate scandal was a 7 day a week mess -- folks were soon tired of it. Not just in the US but internationally. It was affecting our domestic and international relations.

I have mixed feelings about the pardon. Even with the pardon, Nixon ended up living in obscurity and will always be judged negatively for his contributions to Watergate.

I admire Ford's courage -- he inherited one helluva mess and did what he had to do to bring back some normalcy.

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
140. I woke up this morning to learn that Goofy Gerry had been elevated to Greatness
by fact of death. Sorry, but he was not a great president. He performed a hugely questionable act that ended any efforts to bring the Nixon administration to justice, or even uncover the crimes they committed. For that he was a lousy president. For providing a wealth of material to the first few years of SNL, I will always be thankful. Being told by the talking heads that he was a great president was an insult to our intelligence and to the history of our time.

It ain't Ford bashing to think or state that the official story is bullshit.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
148. 1974...the year..
I graduated from high school. While completely apolitical back then, I have the distinct feeling of a man being set up. I don't have any factual basis for this impression..it's just there. Weird. When I saw the pictures of Rummy, Cheney, and Baker I had the same feeling. I wonder if it was written about....Ford having this charade thrust upon him?
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
149. Very nice post
And I agree: I don't think Jimmy Carter could become close friends with him were he not decent to the core.

Even now I admire Betty Ford for her courageous honesty re her addiction. AMAZING.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
151. Agree and
glad you said it. :thumbsup:

DU is at it's best and worst when someone dies from either side.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
155. kickin...
and already recommended...:kick:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
156. Ford was a lousy golfer
and he pardoned nixon.

I can forgive the one, golf is a very hard game...
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
159. I understand your sentiment, and can even agree with it... but....
I doubt I will ever understand how handing Nixon a get-out-of-jail-free card actually *healed* the nation. Why does one American citizen go to jail 20-to-life on trumped-up charges, yet Nixon gets off scott-free? If he had been held legally accountable for his actions, Reagan and Poppy Bush may have, just may have, given pause to their actions while in office. Shrub probably would never have gotten this far, if faced with an example of an ex-president who was actually subject to the law of the land just like everyone else. Giving Nixon that pardon seemed to have set in stone the meme that the President is above the law, and it's hard to see how someone as intelligent and accomplished as Ford couldn't really see that, that's why I can't buy his "healing" rhetoric.

That said, I don't feel any need to pile up on him and his family, now that he's passed away.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
160. How many criminals are We the People going to let go...
...in the name of "healing"?

Gerald Ford was a good old boy who played the game and pardoned another good old boy, thereby setting a precedent which I fear one Nancy Pelosi, et al. are going to use as precedent for yet another national *healing*! The "pardon" in this case would be a failure to impeach.

It's easy to have sympathy for people because they have attained a ripe old age. I prefer to apply my sympathy to my nation, and the harm it has suffered over justice delayed and/or denied.
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toshirajo Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
162. Very well said Hoosier Dem
That's great.

Toshi
who has a low post count AND is not a Freeper
so much for that hypothesis
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
163. Good post.
Thanks for writing it!
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
165. not a great president
but ill deserving of the all the scorn being heaped on him. Thanks Hoosier Dem for restoring some balance to the discussion.
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
166. Everybody dies... as you will also...
I feel no sympathy for the family... he lived for 93 years... the family should be having a party that he lived so long...

My Grandmother is 93 and she wants to pass on to the other side... I will be happy for her when she does.... she has outlived three of her children and she deserves the right of passage of death instead of watching her children die before her....

She has personally told me that she wants to die.... but it is out of her hands... it is God's choice when she passes...

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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
167. Completely agree with you.
A thoroughly decent human being, and we're poorer for not having more of his type around today. Wouldn't it be better if his type of moderate were the rule within the GOP instead of psychopathic idealogues?

He did the best he knew how, from the best of motives. I think we ought to mark his passing with respect and condolences to his family.
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
172. Thank you, HoosierDem.
Thank you for posting this.
You speak for me as well.

Right now, I'm duking it out
with someone on another thread
who sees no difference
in " tearing into" someone while
he's alive vs. right after his death.

Gimme a break!

Thanks again, for this thread.

Kick and recommended.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
174. every republican is bad-- every democrat is good
if only people could be always right and never wrong and if life could only be so simple.
the real world is far more complex and god forbid people make mistakes or do not measure up to arbitrary standards.
it makes no difference if the president is a republican or democrat they all have made some costly mistakes during their presidency.what they do to correct their mistakes is the issue that is relevant in the real world.i`m not going to list the mistakes of the last 50 years that still plague us today because the list and those involved are not the issue. what is the issue is what the next president is going to do to start correcting the mistakes of every president in the past 50 years.

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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
175. Isn't it sad to see many DUers acting like Freepers? (nt)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #175
186. Yes.They make me ashamed.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
176. There have been some legitimate criticisms of Ford's record
And I think that's fair to assess, even just after his death. It's a way of setting the record straight. When else can it be done? I've had no problem with that .... particularly on the long-term impact of the pardon (and the lack of justice therein) and his role in Indonesia. Absolutely fair to debate that, I believe. What I find so repellant is the tone of some gleeful DU-ers who would gladly piss on his grave and use this event to satisfy their vitriol. Oh, well, that's certainly no surprise finding that here. DU is living proof, just like any place on the Internet(s), that people can have no manners or sense of decency.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
179. Wonderful post!! Thank you.
Excellent points and well-said.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
181. My Rule for a public servant is a moment of silence & then TOTAL TRUTH!!!
If that pisses off some preachy Dems...then they only have a mirror in which to stare.

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chefgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #181
184. Not a preachy Dem here, but..
I sort of agree with you, U4ikLefty, except to say that I would give it somewhat longer than a moment of silence.

This same thing bothered me when Reagan died too. I never really formed an opinion about Ford, but I certainly had strong opinions about Reagan and still I felt like we should wait till the man is, at least, in the ground before we shred the shit out of him.

You know, common decency, and all that.

Just my $.02

-chef-
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
189. I agree 100%.
I didn't always agree with Ford, but I respected him and his wife. You can't respect the current republicans. RIP President Ford.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
192. I really
hope this doesn't happen when Bush dies. Will we get all the bleeding heart opinions of what an average pres he was or how great his wife was?

How on earth can people "feel good" about the bumbling idiot Ford? So maybe he didn't run around yelling "bring it on"... but that didn't stop him from encouraging a war that killed over 200,000 people. He didn't try to do right the right thing by bringing justice to some absolutely horrible people that likely would not have remained in power today causing the death of over 500,000 more people.

I would never vote for nor shed a tear for any human being of this caliber.

Yes, I have a low post count. And I'm flaming a dead person. I expect to get flamed myself after this. But I don't care. I won't sit here and keep my mouth shut while people try to say what a good guy Ford was.

I was alive too. I watched my father and my uncles tear themselves apart after watching Nixon walk away a free man. It has affected them their whole lives, which in turn affected me and my siblings. I had an uncle with no arms and no legs. The only thing that was ever explained to me back then was that the POTUSA had made them all fight in an uneccessary war and that the new president was going to forgive him for killing and maiming so many of our people and for being a lying, theiving bastard.

Ford said he knows he's going to hell when he dies. Those words came right out of his mouth. Why shouldn't I agree with his own opinion of himself?
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
193. Good post
I think he set a bad precedent with his pardon and while I think it's important to keep in mind the support he gave to Suharto of Indonesia while they invaded E. Timor (Carter did too unfortunately), he didn't have the same mean-spiritedness that took over the GOP later on that Reagan and the Bushes had.

He wasn't a great president. But I don't see anything about him that would make me really hate him.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
194. HE PARDONED NIXON - all else is meaningless
Like the OPer, I'm old enough to remember those days as I started college. Nixon should've been jailed, tried, convicted, and sentenced - THAT would've "healed the nation"...
To climb onto the current "oh golly what a great guy Ford was" bandwagon nonsense means to overlook the single most important act of the man's life.
Ford failed our nation, and he knew it.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
195. Everytime we pardon criminals they come back...bigger and badder.
He brought us Dick Cheney and Dick learned you can get away with crime in the White House.
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connecticut yankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
196. I voted for Ford in 1976
I am a lifelong Democrat, and I've voted for only two other Republicans in my life.

I believed (and still believe) that he helped heal the country. I agreed with his pardoning of Nixon. I think that Nixon was disgraced enough and putting him on trial would have only inflamed the wounds the country had at the time.

However, I was angry that Nixon was eligible to receive his pension -- I thought that should have been taken away.

I voted for Ford because I thought he would have been a better President than Jimmy Carter. I think Carter has been the country's best former President, and has done many wonderful things since leaving office, but he really wasn't very effective in the White House.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
197. Tell it to the Timorese. And Chileans. And this "healing" bit is bullshit
We never "healed" from the Nixon Presidency - that was nothing but the spin of the time and no more valid than the MSM's spinning of that little sociopath currently occupying the WH as a strong leader. It was the expedient thing to protect the power structure and Ford was a willing tool, who's hapless, harmless demeanor was perfect for reassuring people after the Machiavellian Nixon that Nixon was an aberration we had put behind us. But look who stayed on in that administration. Nixon left but that monster Kissenger stayed.

I just love how those talking about what a "good" man Ford was never address the issue of East Timor - another illustration of the general willingness of Americans to gloss over/forget/ignore our govm't's support of slaughtering people as long as they are poor and brown.

And yes, I was alive and adult at the time.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
207. well said
nt
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
215. Well...as much as DUers make fun of freepers...
'takes one to know one' sometimes, eh?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
221. Funny, I think Fords own words describe him best
"I know I am going to hell because I pardoned Richard Nixon".
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:28 PM
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223. Deleted message
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