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Stop trying to tell me Gerald Ford was a good, decent man.

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:42 AM
Original message
Stop trying to tell me Gerald Ford was a good, decent man.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 02:52 AM by Steve_DeShazer
Gerald R. Ford, the greatest enabler in American history, is being lionized tonight.

I read post after post parroting all the right-wing talking points about him.

Come on, you know them by heart; decent man, accidental president, ended our long national nightmare, lovable stumble bum.

I'm calling bullshit.

Ford is the guy who pardoned the evil bastard Nixon (he also pardoned Tokyo Rose, for you Freeper lurkers.) Richard Fucking Milhous Nixon, for Christ's sake. The drunken, power-mad narcissist who claimed to have "a secret plan to end the Viet Nam War" and subsequently sent thousands of Americans to needless death and trauma.

Does this sound familiar? How would you feel if George W. Bush were similarly pardoned by say, Chuck Hagel? It could happen.

It's hard to see DUer's here praise Oatmeal Man as 'the last decent Republican President', 'an impeccable, honorable man', 'a simple and good man'.

And on and on.

Don't insult me and the other guys my age who were faced with being drafted into the military debacle of our generation by telling us that the guy who pardoned this criminal president, who escalated the war beyond all sense of proportion, "ended our long national nightmare".

Hell, this nightmare continues today, far worse than my 1974 self could ever imagine.

May I set the record straight?

First, Ford's pardon of Nixon did not 'heal the nation'. It halted any investigation of the crimes of Richard Nixon. Further, it established a precedent that was continued by George H. W. Bush, who pardoned the likes of Caspar Weinberger and described him as "true American patriot" and said clemency was granted both to spare him torment and cost of lengthy legal proceedings. Must be nice.

Second, Ford advanced the bloodthirsty careers of no less than Henry Kissinger, Richard Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld. These guys belong in a war crimes tribunal. Their boss was a good Republican? My ass.

Third, Ford gave the green light to Indonesia's illegal invasion of East Timor, resulting in up to 200,000 DEAD PEOPLE.

Fourth, the Project for a New American Century, and the resulting fall and decline of America's standing in the 21st century would never have happened without Ford's unholy deal with his evil fucking boss (see #2.)

I could go on, but the attention span of the Ford supporters here likely won't cover the thirty-plus years of hell and repetition of history that have resulted in PNAC, because in case you haven't noticed, ALL THESE PNAC'ers are the SAME FUCKING GUYS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED AND PERMANENTLY DISCREDITED had Mr. Nice Guy Gerry not PARDONED Richard Milhous Nixon for all his crimes, which today remain uninvestigated.

The 'liberal media' will go all-out in the coming days rewriting history to make Gerald Ford out as the second coming of Jesus. As far as I'm concerned, Gerald Ford is the first coming of the ridiculous notion that America could dominate the world at gunpoint.

Fuck that.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Amen to that.
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 02:45 AM by undeterred
To find a Republican president who was a decent man you'd have to go back a lot further.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
176. Deleted message
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #176
206. Abe Lincoln? Vietnam? C'mon here.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly.
Ford's role in covering up the crimes of that era gave those evil monsters more time. And what we see today is his legacy. The same players, the same goals, and the same results. May he rot in hell for his cowardice and complicity.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good points
It took memory searching to remember all that.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely agree. Thank you for this post.
Plus, the 24/7 eulogizing and history-rewriting will displace so much important news and discussion at this critical time.

K & R - and I wish I could give multiple R's. Well said.

Bullshit indeed. And dangerous, destructive bullshit at that. The GOP-owned-and-operated corporate media talking heads and newspaper writers will be carrying on and on. It's ridiculous to add still MORE bullshit to their output.
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MarinCoUSA Donating Member (783 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'am with SD all the way on this Ford bullsh*t.
-n/t
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. It PISSES me off so much
To know that Tricky Dick, an evil bastard, got pardoned... damn, WTF?
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. Oatmeal Man
Pardon Our Analysis (We Beg Your Pardon)

The pardon you gave was not yours to give
the man who tried to steal America is not going to jail
Nixon should be in San Quentin not San Clemente. And while we're at it why not pardon Charles Manson? It was only mass murder... pardon us while we get sick.

-- Gil Scott Heron


(What I could find of his Oatmeal Man lyrics)
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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
61. I Beg your Pardon, America
I found the lyrics, (with typos and commentary), here.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
200. Thanks for posting that.
It was much more than I could dig up, errors aside, as you noted. "Oak meal" man? :eyes:

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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm not gonna lionize him now that he's dead
any more than I did when he was alive
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

First, investigations had already dragged on for over two years, with what results? Two resignations and some convictions or those may have followed - only Nixon was pardoned, and this only after he had left office in disgrace. Also, it was Kennedy and Johnson who started the whole Vietnam debacle. So, it cannot all be laid at Nixon. His Presidency, on balance, was not nearly as bad as either Reagan's or JR Bush's.

Second, he advanced their careers? Or did he just keep most of Nixon's cabinet?

Third, please. Indonesia would not have invaded without Ford's green light? Anyway, Ford seems far less culpable there than people like Kerry, Clinton, and Edwards, who gave the green light to Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq. So condemn them too when they die.

Fourth, right again. Bush would not have been elected by the Supreme court without Ford's assistance. Is this some sort of butterfly effect you are claiming. Ford stumbles, causing PNAC to come to fruition? I think it is more likely that this travesty of a Bush Presidency would not have happened if our current Republicans in Congress had half the character and class of Ford. Was he a rubber stamp for Nixon before he became VEEP, like the current Republican Congress has been a rubber stamp for Bush?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
53. Gerald Ford Repented of His Pardon of Nixon!
He realized, with the wisdom of hindsight, just what evils were done, when he was thoughtful and worried enough to try to give the nation a new day--and all he did was give the GOP a clean slate and license to go on doing what they had been doing--theft, war, oppression, etc.

None of the GOP to follow him ever repented of anything---so in that respect, at least, Ford was a better man than any who came after him in the Party. In his memory, and in recognition of his repentance, we must convict the coup-makers, from Katherine Harris to Alberto Gonzalez, to Sandra Day O'Connor and her four partners in crime, to the big 2 and a half themselves!
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
63. Did he say that in public? or is this just rumor?
I'd be very interested in seeing a link or a reference about Ford's repentance.
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. Fuck the rivisionists!
The guy was an EVIL MOTHERFUCKER who sent many innocent Americans to death for war profits. Fuck him and the bunch who rode in with him. 'm glad he is dead! I only wish he suffered more!
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brentblack Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
55. What???
How is he evil and how did he kill anyone? We were getting out of Vietnam and all he did was preside over less than 2 years in a strange time in US History.

Read about his earlier days and his work after the Office.

Anyway...good luck on that Karma for wishing pain and suffering on a harmless old man who was nothing more than a footnote in US politics.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
90. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
167. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
175. Deleted message
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #175
181. Actually April of 1975. BTW, at the Ford Library and
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 07:55 PM by EVDebs
the stolen cables of Amb. Graham A. Martin

http://www.ford.utexas.edu/library/guides/Finding%20Aid...

you get to ask yourselves about Ford's role in the Warren Commission JFK murder coverup, along with this stuff stolen from the Saigon embassy, ensconced in the Rome embassy by Martin, and then surreptitiously brought back to the US only to be stolen and scattered in a No. Carolina play area

""In January 1978, the North Carolina State Police found a cache of classified documents in the trunk of a car that had been stolen from former U.S. ambassador to South Vietnam Graham A. Martin. They turned the documents over to the FBI. The documents were embassy files Martin had taken with him when he evacuated Saigon on April 29, 1975, just hours before the city fell to the Communists. The Justice Department, in considering prosecuting Martin for misuse of classified documents, sent copies of the files to the National Security Council for a damage assessment. The copies remained in NSC files until 1982, when the NSC determined that they should have been considered presidential papers and sent them to the Ford Library.

Most of the more than 6000 pages are from the Nixon and Ford administrations, although a few documents originating in Lyndon Johnson's administration and one segment regarding the Diem coup from John F. Kennedy's administration are also present. With a few exceptions, the materials have been maintained in the "packets" that were designated by the FBI. In most cases, the reverse chronological order in which they were received has been changed to forward chronological order.""

Remember the attempt by Nixon to smear JFK with complicity in Diem's assassination via E. Howard Hunt ? Here's where the cables come in...



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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
194. Wow.....those are some pretty strong words for someone who
sounds like he's about six years old.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Can't argue with ANY of this. I remember feeling so incredibly
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 03:46 AM by calimary
shortchanged, both personally AND on behalf of all my fellow citizens. And I feel like quoting DUer aquart at the moment, when posting about whether the pardon REALLY "healed our nation"...

aquart (1000+ posts) Wed Dec-27-06 07:26 AM
Response to Original message - re: death of Gerald Ford and his pardoning of Nixon
17. It didn't heal. It festered.
Children learned that the rich and important don't pay for their crimes. They learned only underlings are sacrificed and justice is a crock. I don't call that healing. And conservative children learned that evil has no consequences.

All I can say to that is - "Amen."
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
218. Yes, it was a lesson learned by way too
many. Nixon should have been sent to jail....sure, it would have been one of those country club jails, but that was the beginning of the downfall of our system of justice...well, the facade of justice.

Then along came Carter and since he had some religious folks (Baptists) get all worked up over his election, this gave the RR great ideas....we can use these dumb ass religious folks to get our repugnants elected.

Is there anywhere on this globe where the political system is half way decent? Anywhere?
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting this. Hearing the announcement
of his death this evening and then watching the crap start to roll made me feel sick. I remember Watergate very clearly, and was stunned when Nixon was pardoned. I also watched Nixon's funeral to see the rouge's gallery in attendence. Amazing how these politicians are such hypocrits.Well, old Gerry sure healed the country , didn't he? We will hear the script being rewritten in the next few days.I will not be mourning this man.Wonder what it costs we, the people, to bury one of these men ?
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Kiouni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. But....
lose of life is always saddening even if they are in their 90's. He was a human being and as such deserves some respect.
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yorgatron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. only the good die young,and Ford proves it.
only a handful of conspirators got jail time for Watergate,it should have been the whole damn bunch.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Not when they aid and abet murderers, it isn't.
There is not one thing sad about this guy passing on.

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
38. Respect is fine.
But calling Ford a great president is a joke, and having that criminal Al Haig tell me that there was no shitty deal over Nixon, lying his ass off on national television, was an instant reminder that the domestic conflict over the vietnam war continues to this day and is laying out right now both in the retread conflict in Iraq and in the endless attempts to rewrite history.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
48. bull.
no one is being disrespectful. people get the respect they deserve. basic human respct, no less. after that, it's about what you did or didn't do in life. we have no obligation to approve of his actions. people here are commenting on his role in american history, which, in case you hadn't noticed, or can't read the op, we are still living through. take your useless sentimantality and do something else with it.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
114. You should go back into the archives and read the posts about Reagan.
His death was not mourned here at DU.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. but don't you LIKE the okaying of a wiretapping, thug- and burglar-hiring,
secret-warring, scumbucket?! *lip quiver* He gave us CREEP, Liddy, Colson, Laotian smack, and thousands more dead.
:sarcasm: <---it's terrifying this is needed on this board!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's appalling to see the ignorance.
Nixon committed crimes. While not on the scale of the current administration's, they were severe enough to warrant imprisonment.

Ford killed that hope of justice, and people are ignoring that to bleat praises about him.

Unfuckingbelievable.

This kind of ignorance is why we got Reagan... then Poppy... now b*s*.

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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
123. isn't it possible that he was able to show some type of
prescience about what the trial and possible imprisonment of a president would entail? Doesn't it seem that our experience of the Clinton/Lewinsky debacle would tell us that that kind of legal nightmare with Nixon in the dock, would have been a horrible thing to witness, as deserving of it as Nixon may have been? It was bad enough watching the intensity and seriousness of the Watergate hearings themselves.

Nixon did awful things, but I think even some of Ford's harshest critics at the time have felt in retrospect that he probably had made a wise decision.

I think that every President has intense fallibilities, but people seem unable to see the positive aspects of Ford, pre-Presidency, during and post-Presidency.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #123
158. Yeah, nice precedent there, the law doesn't apply to Presidents...
And people wonder why Bush can get away with the shit he got away with so far.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #158
165. I think that the law does apply to presidents
but it was such a shock at the time, that he would even be involved in something of that sort.

Is trying a president really the way to go? I think that Bush has done some things that are truly horrifying, but would we really want him to be tried? What kind of precedent does that set? And isn't that what the impeachment process is for?

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #165
170. Impeachment is for REMOVAL from OFFICE so they CAN be prosecuted!
Look, we either are a country ruled by law, or one ruled by fiat and strong-arm politics, damn the consequences. I prefer rule of law myself, you apparently think differently.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #170
233. no, it isn't
the purpose of impeachment is not as a precursor to prosecution. I'm not a lawyer, maybe someone who is can back me up here.

I really hate all or nothing thinking on this board, please read some presidential and legal history and get back to me. One-liners aren't an argument, either.

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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
203. The ignorance will allow future Fords and Nixons in.
Some of whom will just happen to be--wait for it--"Democrats."
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. Gerald Ford was a good, decent man.
:evilgrin: :hide: Hey, I'll try anything once. Seriously I tend to agree with you. Trouble is we live in the United States of Amnesia.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Anybody under the age of 40 doesn't really remember him
Heck, I was a little kid, and remember asking my mother why that man was getting on a helicopter, and why was it he was so bad? Ford was just a name to be recited in school as being our new President.

They keep us as stupid as possible so they can pull the same tricks over and over (but of course you already figured that out).
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
73. Many older than 40 don't waste much time trying to remember him
Yea, pardoning Nixon must of been the high point in his career, what an accomplishment :crazy:

On a scale of one to ten he was in the minus column when it came to anything that exciting and new.
Thank goodness for that i would guess :shrug:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Except for the SNL skit Chevy Chase did, there wasn't much to remember
Except for all those times they showed him on teevee falling down stairs trying to get out of Air Force One.

Man, seeing that happen always made me feel proud to be an American.

LoL
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
110. *I'm* 31, and even I'm not falling for the bullshit whitewashing of this guy.
For some reason I just can't get past the whole "pardoned a criminal who should have gone to jail for illegal domestic spying and escalating a war based on lies/East Timor/aiding in the JFK cover-up/putting RUMSFELD and CHENEY into positions of power" thing.

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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. You make a good argument to support John Dean's reasons why
those surrounding Bush should get impeached, so they can't grow up to be just like him. Let's purge them out now while we can.
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
20. He'd have to be the third coming; Raygun was the 2nd according to the corporate press
Ford was a toady who let off the hook the criminals who (until now) were the greatest threat to the constitution our country had ever seen. Thank you for your post, it is amazing how it looks today to most people who only see it from a distance through a rear view mirrror.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
21. I don't suffer fools gladly anymore.
I won't allow any re-writing of history thanks. I remember all that shit goin' down, and I can hold a grudge for decades.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. Unfortunately we'll have to put up with it all day.
Some here just don't get it.
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
72. the two biggest lies being catapulted by the corporate media:
1. America's only unelected president
2. He "healed a nation"

...My Ass.

If pardons heal a nation so well, maybe Nouri al-Maliki should pardon Saddam Hussein. They could use some healing right about now.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
93. Some kind of way they will try to swing...
the information about him into Bush by telling us how Ford brought the country together...and how in bad times we should follow our leaders no matter what...
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
23. Ted Kennedy Thought He Was
Remarks by Senator Edward M. Kennedy

I'm honored to be here today with President Gerald R. Ford, the winner of this years Profile in Courage Award, and Congressman John Lewis, the recipient of the Profile in Courage Lifetime Achievement Award.

In his book, President Kennedy told the stories of courageous political leaders who faced crucial decisions and made them under great pressure, and often at great risk to their own careers. I believe my brother would be especially pleased with our winners this year. He would feel that their stories of courage would have made outstanding new chapters in his book.

At a time of national turmoil, America was fortunate that it was Gerald Ford who took the helm of the storm-tossed ship of state. Unlike many of us at the time, President Ford recognized that the nation had to move forward, and could not do so if there was a continuing effort to prosecute former President Nixon. So President Ford made a courageous decision, one that historians now say cost him his office, and he pardoned Richard Nixon.

I was one of those who spoke out against his action then. But time has a way of clarifying past events, and now we see that President Ford was right. His courage and dedication to our country made it possible for us to begin the process of healing and put the tragedy of Watergate behind us. He eminently deserves this award, and we are proud of his achievement.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Education+and+Public+Programs ...
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
49. and he was dead ass wrong. nt
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
144. I'll second that
Kennedy is wrong on this. The only grief Ford spared the Nation was the grief of comfy politicians putting their careers on the line for justice. It is easy to speak of the grief spared the nation when you are sitting in the halls on Congress that would have to get off of its ass and do these things. Thanks, Ford, for sparing us the effort of doing something. There was precious little of "do something" then and there is precious little of that now.

Why do I have a feeling that all of this "heal the nation" crap is a prelude to us letting Bushboy off the hook for his crimes?
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
24. i'm not sure he could hold his own with the garbage that now is repub party nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. You bet. Fuck that. nt
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
26. great rant and reality check

Ford sucked. Remember the W.I.N (Whip Inflation Now) campaign? Just another rethuglikan trashing the world at our expense. :grr:

kicked and recommended.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
27. But Tokyo Rose was actually innocent. NPR did a long piece about it. n/t
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Paulie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
119. Can't let facts get in the way of a good rant
:) :) :)
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
214. Thank you- I am very busy and don't have time for a longer reply...
...but Tokyo Rose was innocent. From what I recall there were a number of Tokyo Roses anyway.

PB
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
28. You are exactly correct..and there's even more.
..the last surviving member of the Warren Commission. That's why the whole Nixon thing was such a nightmare - it was beyond the 'plot theory', there were almost unimaginable machinations...there was so much more to all this and it was stopped. Permanently.

The House Investigations into the Assassinations were turned into a circus. what an era.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. what an era, is right! and we're repeating it, magnified, now.
thanks, gerry.
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thingfisher Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
118. Indeed!
People do not think that RFK and Watergate had anything in common. Why do you think it was so important to cover up?
There is so much more to know....
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
29. THANK YOU. I never thought DEMOCRATS would don rose-colored glasses for these guys.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
147. They are acting like their leaders
and CNN, in my opinion.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
30. What I'm thinking . . .
. . . is that yes, pretty much 75 to 85% of DUers know that Ford was an enabling moran who only recognized corruption but chose not to investigate it for convictions. He DID pardon Nixon, an unforgiveable act and certainly a reprehensible precedent considering today's "leadership" (two of it's biggest bastards were under his employ). The future BFEE, neo-fascist corporate leaders and PNAC almost definitely saw this action as their green light for turning the treasury, military and country into their personal illegal mint.

Yet, it was said previously that with this passing, we're merely trying to be "the better party" and finding something . . . ANYthing nice to say, because you think Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton's passing is going to evoke bi-partisan aisle-reaching from the Repukes? There'll be more venom sprayed than a zoo filled with snakes.

Yes, Ford sucked, but the perspective here is that he's a boy scout compared to his neo-clown successors. I didn't bat a yawn when Nixon and Saint Ronnie croaked, and when the Grand Cyclops XLI passes, there'll only be a B.I.H. from me.

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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. Thank you, Jerry Ford.
For bringing the word "hagiography" into my mind. It's one I rarely use, but I'm happy to know I still remember how to spell it.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
32. Ford also led the Impeachment hearings against Supreme Ct. Justice William Douglas
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 08:12 AM by shance
To quote the description of the hearings they were a "farce".

"The hearings began in late April 1970, and Ford was the main witness, accusing Douglas' liberal opinions as well as his defense of the "filthy" film, I Am Curious Yellow. and ties with Albert Parvin, (see above)

Additionally, he was criticized for accepting $350.00 for an article he wrote on folk music for the magazine Avant Garde. The magazines publisher had served a prison sentence for the distribution of another magazine in 1966 that had been deemed pornographic.

Describing Douglas article, Ford stated, The article itself is not pornographic, although it praises the lusty, lurid, and risqu along with the social protest of left-wing folk singers. Ford also attacked Douglas for an article in Evergreen Magazine, which was famous for its pictures of naked ladies.

The Repubican congressmen refused to give the majority Democrats copies of the magazines, prompting Congressman Wayne Hays to remark "Has anybody read the article -- or is everybody over there who has a magazine just looking at the pictures? <3>

When it became clear that the hearings were a farce, they were brought to a close, and no public vote on the matter taken. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_O._Douglas

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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
43. I remember Jackie Kennedy going to see "I Am Curious Yellow"
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
87. Amazing. The things I learn on this website
:thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #87
153. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #153
159. Counting down, 10, 9, 8, 7.....
enjoy your stay....
:eyes:
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
89. Thanks for this important point
Thanks for posting this, Shance.

I didn't know about this episode, so read more about it after your post on it. How enlightening.
In looking at this action and at subsequent attempts to emulate it, there is an even clearer picture of Ford as a cog in the machine which grinds away at people's rights.

From http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=71...
Republican Congressmen led by future President Gerald Ford made several attempt to impeach the justice. Ford's efforts, which failed, were widely viewed as retaliation for the Senate's rejection of two of President Richard Nixon's Supreme Court nominees.

And what did Ford say about his reason for trying this:
http://www.orbstandard.com/News/Gerard/gene_gerard_judi...
When Congressman Ford was asked what was Douglas' offense, Ford
infamously responded by saying, "The only honest answer is whatever a majority
of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in
history."


An article in Time magazine from that time had a revealing analysis of the real motives:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,909119...
If it works, the ultimate goal is to force the Senate to vote on Douglas shortly before Election Day next fall. The purpose: to embarrass Senate liberals who are running for re-election and would presumably find it difficult to vote for the "immoral" Douglas no matter how they themselves regarded the charges against him.

So, since they disagreed with Douglas' rulings about individual rights, privacy, conservation and corporate responsibility but couldn't take him on over that, they tried to go after him on flimsy moral insinuations and take him and his influence down that way, as well as trying to intimidate others to cooperate so they wouldn't be smeared during their campaigns. Sound familiar?

If that isn't enough, here's a modern parallel to that action that shows the same pattern of behavior:
http://www.orbstandard.com/News/Gerard/gene_gerard_judi...

At a recent conservative political conference on the judiciary, Phyllis
Schlafly, founder of the conservative women's group Eagle Forum, stated that
since Justice Kennedy ruled against the death penalty for juveniles, this "is a
good ground for impeachment." Michael P. Farris, chairman of the Home School
Legal Defense, stated, "If our congressman and senators do not have the courage
to impeach and remove from office Justice Kennedy, they out to be impeached as
well." And constitutional lawyer Edwin Vieira called for Kennedy's impeachment,
stating that his ruling in the consensual sex case supported "satanic principles
drawn from foreign law." Both Tom DeLay and Republican Congressman Todd Tiahrt
of Kansas have supported impeaching Kennedy.


Basically the same play with newer, and more obvious, players.

Ford was no healer in my book and having an amiable aspect does not excuse his calculated actions.


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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
155. William O. Douglas is an American hero.
That's another thread for the young and the memory-impaired. Thanks for bringing that up.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
33. Agreed. n/t
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
34. Thanks for setting the record straight
I was unaware of some of those things; thank you for enlightening me (and, I'm sure, others).
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
35. AMEN!
!
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
36. Hmmm....
Gerald R. Ford, who picked up the pieces of Richard Nixons scandal-shattered White House as the 38th president and the only one never elected to nationwide office

At some point shouldn't history be re-written?

You'll never convince me * was elected in 2000 and I sure won't tell my grandchildren any different.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
177. And he wasn't elected in 2004 either!
Not if you check out the exit polls!
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
37. Thanks Steve.
Sometimes I think all us boomer lost our brains, but then somebody like you comes along and reminds me that my experience of What Really Happened was not some dream. The long national nightmare continues, partially because of what Ford did and the deal he cut.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
39. Just turn the shit off. My ears and eyes can't take it.
Renting movies tonight for the rest of the week. I'll be here for my only news source. :toast:
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
40. And he played for U of M. That's all you need to know.
;)

He was the only president from Michigan, and that's whom we sent. :eyes: At least he had a great wife who had a lot of courage to publically admit her troubles and keep her own personal style.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
150. He went to Michigan?
another reason for this Buckeye to not like him.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #150
154. Yup. He played football and was an All-American.
My stepmom's dad was an All-American at State around the same time.
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
41. don't forget the slimewad tried to impeach Wm. O. Douglas...
the greatest American jurist since Brandeis.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
42. AMEN--especially that closing line.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
44. What Steve Said!
The hagiography on Washington Journal this morning was downright revolting.
The Professor
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
45. Ford was on Warren Commission - lied to the nation about JFK murder
...for that alone he deserves to be remembered as having had a strong, strong negative impact on our nation. I believe Gore Vidal is correct when he has said that we lost our nation when we allowed them to lie to us about Kennedy's assassination.

:(
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. ... and that's exactly why Nixon appointed him VP ...
... returning the favor, y'know. :puke: :mad:


Creeps and Crooks, the whole lot of them - rotten to the core.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
95. No. Nixon needed a sure 'pardon'
and appointing Ford was based on ensuring that later action.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #95
113. Same difference ...
... crooks stick together and tend to scratch each others' backs.

N'cest pas ?
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
46. Crap, I already recommended this, I wanna rec it again.
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
47. Ford was a Warren Commission Stooge and appointed Poppy to CIA. nuff said k&r
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freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
52. Thank you, SD. K&R
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
54. Ford administration blooded Bush stalwarts
The administration of former US president Gerald Ford will be remembered as a breeding ground for officials who went on to become linchpins of George W. Bush's government a generation later.

Ford, who died late Tuesday aged 93, oversaw the promotion of several figures who later became pillars of the Bush administration, including Vice-President
Dick Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Cheney, who served under Richard Nixon, returned in 1974 on Ford's orders as the president's chief of staff from 1975 to 1977.

Rumsfeld, meanwhile became the youngest ever secretary of defence under Ford in 1975. He returned to the post in 2001 after Bush was elected president.

Another key figure of the Bush administration and architect of the war in
Iraq, Paul Wolfowitz, also served under Ford, heading up the US Arms Control and Disarmament Agency in charge of anti-proliferation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061227/pl_afp/uspoliticsp...
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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
56. I'm glad to see that DUer's haven't lost their edge after Xmas and
still recognize a Rethug when they see one. I can't possibly agree more that so much of what we have today could have been AVOIDED had the pardon not happened. Nixonites have no place at the helm of this Nation.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
57. Great piece.
:thumbsup:


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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R Very powerful reminder, extremely well said!!!


"First, Ford's pardon of Nixon did not 'heal the nation'. It halted any investigation of the crimes of Richard Nixon. Further, it established a precedent that was continued by George H. W. Bush, who pardoned the likes of Caspar Weinberger and described him as "true American patriot" and said clemency was granted both to spare him torment and cost of lengthy legal proceedings. Must be nice.

Second, Ford advanced the bloodthirsty careers of no less than Henry Kissinger, Richard Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld. These guys belong in a war crimes tribunal. Their boss was a good Republican? My ass.

Third, Ford gave the green light to Indonesia's illegal invasion of East Timor, resulting in up to 200,000 DEAD PEOPLE.

Fourth, the Project for a New American Century, and the resulting fall and decline of America's standing in the 21st century would never have happened without Ford's unholy deal with his evil fucking boss (see #2.)" from the OP.


People need to separate common decency, which we all demonstrate, from political reality, a dose of which was just administered by Dr. De Shazer.
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Sperk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
59. agree completely. I'm so sick of this "healing the nation" and "for the
good of the nation" crap. To me it always translates to...let the son of bitches off the hook, like we are a nation of scared little children who cannot handle the truth! sick of it.
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
60. Completely agree with your post
Ford was a bumbling idiot of a politician alright and little else except an enabler for the gop lies that continue to this day. Good damn riddance, thats my opinion. Flame away, who cares. We are where we are at today partially because of this fuck ups patronage to his supposed gop betters. I agree that a complete investigation would have been far more healing for the nation than the stupid vapid suck up that was the pardon. He was an obfuscater, not someone who "healed the nation".
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
64. Gerald Ford was a good, decent man.
Not much of a president, but a good man.
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greccogirl Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. Infinitely better than Carter was. I so wish I could take that
vote back............................
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #82
99. Um...
Ford was better than Carter? In what categories exactly?
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #82
162. You "so" do huh?
Please list how Ford was better than Carter.

Your posts are always so damn interesting.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #82
215. And Ill bet you like
loved Reagan. Like how he saved the hostages in Iran(when Carter could'nt) and like won the cold war? :sarcasm:
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #82
219. Excuse me, but...
WTF?!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
65. I think for the most part
these are kind words being said since he has just died. Maybe after some time people would want more to talk about this aspect. It's not exactly nice to say "good" or "thank god" when someone dies, even if in some eyes they weren't a 'good guy'.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
66. Gerald Ford was possibly one of the most evil and murderous
men to ever hold office. How anyone could find prase for anything he ever did is beyond me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. Pay no attention to those rotting corpses in East Timor
And keep saying to yourself that Ford was a good and decent man.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #80
234. Who's 'you'?
:eyes:
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
67. ever heard the comment
don't speak ill of the dead?

In the days just after death, celebrate his life, there will be all of eternity to review and dissect his actions and inactions.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #67
103. eh, i think that's fine for private citizens, but we are dealing with the leftovers of
his actions and (right or wrong) people are seeing it for what it is.

we adhered to this when nixon died and "rehabbed" his "legacy." i think we realize what a mistake that was.

they dead don't care, anymore. the living are left behind to deal with the messes, so, i think it's fair game -- unsavory, though it may be.

not nearly as unsavory as all the young men who died in the last days of that stupid war.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
104. Sugarcoat it, Swallow the lies
It wont poison the debate really. Lies are good for healing the nation. :eyes:

So when does the "all of eternity" period start? is it 5 days we must wear black? I'm so not up on these death rituals.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
134. Why? They can't hear us, then!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
68. Amen to that. The MSM seems to want to heal the nation BUT
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 11:53 AM by Joanne98
because of seeds that were planted in the Ford administration we have been on a downhill path ever since. It is factual to say the Gerald Ford was the SNEAKIEST President we've ever had.

You can't seperate the man from his polices. Pol Pot was said the be very nice too. It doesn't mean anything.

Ford should go down in History as using the veto more than anyone else. STOPPING LIBERAL POLICES! He also hired Greenspan who never gave a worker an even break. The medium income has gone down every year since 1973. Do the math.

Goodbye Mr Ford. I hope for your sake there are golf courses in Hell.
Tell Raygun we said Hi!
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
69. Can we add Chile and Pinochet
to this list?
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mconvente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
70. fuck yeah
Just pardoning Nixon is enough to make him, at the very least, "un-decent".
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
71. What's all this BS about Chewney & Runny "cut their teeth" in Fords Admin?
What a pantload! He INHERITED those evil bastards from Nixon.

Now I s'pose we'll drop to half-mast for what? A month? Like for stupid Reagan?

Jerry Ford was a lameass Appeaser and the LAZIEST retired President of all time, so far.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
74. You forgot - Ford was on the Warren Commission, happily rubber-stamping
the bullshit "magic bullet theory" to cover-up the conspiracy to assassinate JFK.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
160. I do wish I had mentioned that
Thankfully many here did.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
75. If you can't say anything nice about a person..
..then that person must be a recently deceased republic president.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #75
100. Canonization of Ford
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 03:29 PM by Moochy
MSM Hagiographers are busily putting the finishing touches on the rewritten history. And yet all some do is act concerned about DU's image and how we might be seen as mean by some other entity.

So much concern about DU's image. :eyes:

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
76. Ford was on the Warren Commission - he was "just a bag boy for the boys downtown"
Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr. - Crooks and Liars, One and All

And they wonder why Democrats won't support their wars!!

Pardon me, while I puke on my shoes!!

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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. Exactly! Ford was j.Edgar Hoover's stooge planted in the warren commission!
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
77. two thumbs up
i rarely remember to hit that teeny weeny "recommend" button but for your fine essay i will make an exception

well done, my friend
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
78. But He Was A Good Decent Man. But Ok, I Digress.
I'll step back and allow you to continue dancing and spitting on his grave. Don't want to get in your way. :hi:
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #78
105. Way to mischaracterize the OP
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 03:39 PM by Moochy
Sometimes I really wonder why you are here? Par for the course I guess.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #78
106. I have a big sloppy lugie for him. nt
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greccogirl Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
79. Are you not aware that all Presidents pardon unsavory
people? Give it up on Nixon - it's over and it was years ago. Yes I would've liked to have seen Nixon go to jail but it was better for the country that he didn't.
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michaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. AGREE
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greccogirl Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. :-)
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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. What a load of bs
How was it better for the country for Nixon not to go to jail? It was good for rethugs....
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #88
125. Indeed, it was great for conservatives.
Now look at who here is lauding him, and put the two together.

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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #125
141. It is obvious isn't it?
Thanks for your great efforts at DU Zhade. Class act.

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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
164. Will you BACK UP YOUR BULLSHIT?
Instead of just making a ridiculous blanket comment? How exactly was it better for the country? Just like how was Ford a better president than Carter? Are you sure you are on the right board?
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #79
166. It's not over.
His chief of staff is now Vice-President. His SecDef was fired in disgrace.

How dare you tell me it's over.

I'd love to hear your defense. Please, go ahead. Tell me why it was "better for the country that he didn't."

I can't wait. :eyes:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
187. Only from a republican perspective.
From a non-insane viewpoint, it would have been much better for the country had the crook gone to jail.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
85. The only reason Ford was chosen by Nixon was for the guranteed pardon, no truth in amerika anymore!
Ford was the stooge planted in the warren commission to report back daily to Hoover and Johnson,
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
91. text book examples of fallacy
hate him because he's a republican. That's all you've got.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #91
127. "That's all you've got." - you clearly DIDN'T read the OP.
NT!

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #127
152. great, since Ford is responsible for all the evil in the world
I'm glad he's dead and expect everything will return to beauty and light, just like it was before he became president. :sarcasm:

How you tag HIM with PNAC is totally beyond me. I'd stick more of the blame for necons on Scoop Jackson, the democrat for whom Wolfowitz, Perle and Feith all worked. The "neo" in neoconservative means new as in these guys were democrats and socialists (including Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz, considered to be the fathers of neoconservativism) who basically left the New Left to support Reagan because they hated Stalin and the New Left was more "forgiving", shall we say. History will likely show the neocons were at least right about that, don't you think? The necons were IN NO WAY associated with Nixon. They were Democrats during Nixon and Ford. And it wasn't Ford or Nixon who turned them into republicans, it was Stalin, the New Left and Reagan.

And LBJ bears FULL responsibility for escalation in Vietnam since the highest number of troops were sent in 1968, higher than ANY year of Nixon's reign. You should blame Johnson for the draft, not Nixon. (sheesh)

Scoop and Johnson should bear your rath, not Ford.

Oh, yeah, and the articles of impeachment against Nixon had NOT ONE THING to do with the war in Vietnam or the draft or Rummy or Cheney. They had to do with abuse of office as pertained to the coverup of Watergate. I'm sure a trial on dirty campaign tricks would have set this country on the right course and crushed your dreaded neocons.

But hey, its your history...revise away. But don't be too alarmed when those of us who remember it more clearly find the arguments fallacious.

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #152
171. Just one question...
Why are you defending Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Feith?

My post was about Gerald Ford, not Scoop Jackson or LBJ. There's plenty of blame to go around....

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #171
189. where did I defend any of them?
You said:

Don't insult me and the other guys my age who were faced with being drafted into the military debacle of our generation by telling us that the guy who pardoned this criminal president, who escalated the war beyond all sense of proportion, "ended our long national nightmare".

Maybe I don't know what you mean by "escalated the war beyond all sense of proportion" but I thought you meant it had something to do with your fear of being drafted. 537K troops were in Vietnam in 1968, under Johnson. 510K in '69, 390K in '70 212K in '71 and 35K in '72 under Nixon. Johnson was the one who escalated the war beyond all sense of proportion, not Nixon. http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/troop...

You said:

Fourth, the Project for a New American Century, and the resulting fall and decline of America's standing in the 21st century would never have happened without Ford's unholy deal with his evil fucking boss (see #2.)

How exactly did that happen? The neocons, who were dems then, did not want us to leave Vietnam. How did pardoning Nixon, 2 years after we left Vietnam, help the pro war democrats?

If you are pissed at Ford for pardoning Nixon, fine. Just don't make up facts and blame the pardon for later pardons, the war or the neocons.

And what would a trial of Nixon have proved about any of that? The articles of impeachment had nothing to do with the war or the neocons. They had to do with dirty campaign tricks and using government resources to cover them up.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Just don't blame the wrong people. I'm not defending Ford or any of them. There wasn't a person in this country more angry than I was when Ford pardoned Nixon (not that we didn't expect it). But in hindsight, I don't know what good it would have done to try him. If we'd gone beyond the articles of impeachment and tried him for war crimes, maybe. But the dems didn't want to do that because LBJ committed more war crimes than Nixon did. By a long shot.

Those who forget history . . . and all that.

The biggest problem we face today is not Ford's pardoning of Nixon but the GOP witch hunt, impeachment and trial of Clinton. That memory has made it more difficult to impeach Bush because we now know: the otherside will cry fowl and if they make it stick, we're out of office and two, there might be an acquittal which will embolden those who cried fowl.

I'd rather spend the next two years investigating the shit out of the shits to establish the record for coming generations and pass some legislation that will fix some of the wrongs brought on by W. If we go in screaming "impeachment" we are not likely to get anything passed and 2008 could be stolen from us again.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #152
190. Let's just break this down...
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 08:29 PM by Zhade
"great, since Ford is responsible for all the evil in the world"

Obviously never said that; strawman.


"I'm glad he's dead and expect everything will return to beauty and light, just like it was before he became president."

Another irrelevant strawman.


"How you tag HIM with PNAC is totally beyond me."

I'm quite aware of PNAC players' histories, thanks. I don't lay ALL the blame at Ford's feet; he just moved three very prominent future PNACers into powerful positions. He played a role in PNAC's ultimate creation, hence my dubbing him "PNAC's lovable uncle" - didn't do it all, but gave a helping hand to the future murderous bastards.

"And LBJ bears FULL responsibility for escalation in Vietnam since the highest number of troops were sent in 1968, higher than ANY year of Nixon's reign. You should blame Johnson for the draft, not Nixon. (sheesh)"

1) I never even mentioned the draft, and I didn't blame Ford for that, so that's your third strawman. (As an aside: you're ignoring Nixon's escalation into Cambodia - a clever dodge for anyone trying to make Nixon look like a reluctant participant in Viet Nam.)

2) I most emphatically DO blame LBJ. This is not the first time I've said as such on DU, either.


"Scoop and Johnson should bear your rath, not Ford."

Every politician who violates the law, or enables others to do so, bears my wrath. Ford included. But YES, I hate Scoop Jackson's legacy and the idiots who think he was a decent man himself.


"Oh, yeah, and the articles of impeachment against Nixon had NOT ONE THING to do with the war in Vietnam or the draft or Rummy or Cheney. They had to do with abuse of office as pertained to the coverup of Watergate. I'm sure a trial on dirty campaign tricks would have set this country on the right course and crushed your dreaded neocons."

Not sure why you even mention this, since I didn't bring up the articles, instead only pointing out that Ford pardoned a man who belonged in prison for illegal domestic spying and continuing the war.

Strange that they're "my" dreaded neocons - I know you certainly don't support them anymore than I do.


"But hey, its your history...revise away. But don't be too alarmed when those of us who remember it more clearly find the arguments fallacious."

No, it's pretty much history, period. That you deny it doesn't change it.

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #190
211. well...
when you said I didn't read the OP, I thought it was because you agreed with the OP. The op talked about the draft in the same paragraph as escalation. Thought there was a nexus.

Oh yeah, and while we're on the topic of strawmen, "reluctant participant? Pleeze.

Operative word "future" PNACers. I didn't know, in 1974, that Rummy and Cheney were evil. Rumsfeld was in favor of arms control and detente and an all volunteer army. Heck, I was even in favor of the same things! So, under your logic, I must be a PNAC Auntie? If you'd told me then, that Rummy and Cheney would team up with a bunch of former wacko dems/socialists I would have thought you were nuts.

(PS, when I say "sarcasm" it means that I know I'm creating strawmen.)
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #91
168. I don't hate dead men. Please post your defense.
Come on. Go ahead.

Want to refute anything in my OP?
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
94. Well I was about 4 or 5 when he became President and I've never been impressed.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
96. Rest in Peace, Mr. Ford.
May the highest universal human characteristics of empathy, compassion, and respect unite people as one as they note your passing, and make the world a better place. May those who use death to glory in and spread that lowest of human characteristics, hate, go to their own rests in their own times unremembered.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #96
128. Ditto
Thanks for your eloquent thoughts on the subject of President Ford's passing - I couldn't agree more.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #96
212. THANKS
for you words. :thumbsup:
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
97. Kooky Roberts
Just heard her on NPR predictably declaring that the pardon was absolutely neccessary for the nation. Like we couldn't have survived finding out more about what Nixon had done. Guess our nation isn't strong and good after all, huh Cokey?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. i used to idolize her -- what the hell was wrong with me?
you can't heal until you CLEAN the wound. we wouldn't be going thru our LONG NATIONAL NIGHTMARE now if those bastards had been completely cleaned out.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #101
130. "you can't heal until you CLEAN the wound" - fantastic way to phrase it.
You're entirely correct.

Why do so many DUers fail to see this? It's alarming!

Will these same DUers forget in thirty years and call b*s* "a decent man who made some mistakes" when he kicks off?

United States of Amnesia, indeed.

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thingfisher Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #97
120. Cokie's just reinforcing the official history for the masses.
Those who control the past control the predent.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
98. My ex-Nixon repub parents were FURIOUS at the pardon.
Remember dad throwing the New York Daily News across the room that had headline "Ford Pardons Nixon"

Everyone was furious. This heal the nation thing was/is an urban legend.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #98
109. I completely agree...
We survived a revolution, a civil war, two world wars, a bunch of crappy wars in between, lost viet nam and iraq, a whole bunch of other crooked moron politicians and yet the urban legend of "the nation wouldn't survive this" is complete and utter bullshit. If we are that weak in spirit, many many other things would have taken us down long before that.

That's why we need to impeach the chimp, make it stick, no pardons and have a full on complete investigation and trial. We can take it, we want it and most of all we as Americans deserve it.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #98
145. My ex-Nixon repub dad was pleased with the pardon
and told us over dinner the night it happened that this is what good people do--whatever it takes to end conflict and bring healing, even if it makes you unpopular. Silly Dad. That's what comes of being raised by a colony of wild Mennonites.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
102. Ford "served"on the Warren Commission and
certainly did not upset the Establishment's applecart there.

He was most likely selected as Vice PResident (after Agnew resigned) when Kissinger let it be known that Ford would always behave.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
107. Thank you Steve; you speak for me, too.
My whole family was enraged over the pardon.
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #107
117. How about when he gave amnesty to the draft avoiders
that went to Canada?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #117
131. I wonder how those in East Timor felt about that?
Do you suppose Ford's beloved centurions, Rumsfeld and Cheney, liked it?

Maybe Nixon cheered it while enjoying the life outside prison he didn't deserve?

(In other words, one right doesn't correct many wrongs. Would you praise b*s* if he raised the minimum wage while continuing the slaughter in Iraq?)

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beth9999 Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
108. Agreed. The man was a Repug...
... and the country is better off for every Repug who is gone. Good riddance.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
111. Couldn't agree more. I'm sure Ford was loved by friends and family.
As most people are, of course. But his place in history is not exactly warm and fuzzy in my book. The repubs want to paint all of their leaders as being saint-like. Hey, I didn't hate the guy, but he's not exactly Ghandi, as they're portraying him today. The repubs NEVER miss a chance to advance their agenda and give Bush a boost in the polls...

RIP Gerald Ford.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
112. WHO CARES
hes dead. and he wasnt a democrat.


Why IS he even being discussed ?!


Just because someone dies, doesnt mean you have to either praise or slam him(both of which are wrong considering an obviously political stance since you are on DU)
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. Why is he being discussed? Are you kidding?
He was a United States President. His actions (and lack thereof) had impacts that are felt in the political climate today, and of course his passing is a relevant topic on a political discussion board!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #112
133. Well, for those of us who oppose the b*s* administration, he was like PNAC's loving uncle.
He helped the careers of PNACers Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, for example.

He had an impact on our belief in justice when he pardoned Nixon's illegal domestic spying and escalation of the war. (Sound like a certain scumbag coward-in-chief squatting in the White House?)

200,000 dead in East Timor with his approval of the war.

Oh, there are reasons to discuss him - one of which is to dispel the bullshit about his being "decent". He wasn't.

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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
116. Gerald Ford brought us Cheney and Rumsfeld - Enough Said....
:puke:
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
121. Hallelujah and Amen
I have to agree w/Zhade upthread...

It's appalling to see the ignorance regarding Ford. I can sorta excuse those that were too young to understand that era. But for the ones that are old enough to have lived through it, were you comatose in the 70's?

How can anyone that went through Watergate not be angry as hell for the pardon of Nixon?

Un-fucking-believable!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #121
136. Dude, I'm 31 years old. There is NO excuse for the ignorance, if even *I* know what he did!
NT!

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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #136
156. Agreed, but I ain't no dude

I am woman, hear me roar!

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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
122. Bravo. Recommending.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
124. Dude, the guy just died.
...grave dancing is terribly unbecoming.

It's times like this that I wish Skinner would create an "unrecommend" option.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #124
135. Please explain how telling the truth about Ford's actions is "grave dancing".
Such bullshit.

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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #135
138. One shouldn't speak ill of the recently departed...
...unless one is appearing on the Jerry Springer Show.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #138
157. Gods forbid that we, oh, I don't know, offend a dead guy...
Look, no offense, but I don't give two shits about this "respecting the dead" shit, respect is EARNED, not GIVEN, even AFTER DEATH. The victims in East Timor deserved more respect than this POS "President fill-in".
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #157
163. The gods forbid nothing. But if you insist on appearing petty, by all means...
:shrug:
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #163
172. Yes, because uttering false platitudes instead of honesty on an anonymous message board
is so much better than "appearing petty".... Sheesh, I mean, WTF is anyone thinking of trying to honestly discuss the man's public service record on a political discussion forum....
:sarcasm:
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #163
173. Being petty my ass!
Look, Ford was an awful president, starting right out the gate, there is no hiding that fact, and trying to gloss it over just because the man is dead is just acting like an Ostrich with its head in the sand.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #138
185. If telling the truth about his wrongs is "speaking ill", oh fucking well.
The world doesn't get better by concealing the truth.

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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. To everything, there is a season...

'Jus sayin, it's poor form to call the departed a motherfucker at his funeral. Best to let him cool a bit first.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #186
195. Show me where I did that.
I'm not waiting on telling the truth about his ACTIONS just because some people want to ignore what he did.

There's no better time to discuss the truth about his presidency than now, when people are actually talking about him. And heck, it doesn't even have to include name-calling, sure.

Unless "pardoner of a man who deserved prison" is considered name-calling, which of course it isn't.

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #124
174. I'm not dancing on his grave
He hasn't been buried yet.

I'm trying to remind folks like you of his record.

You might want to look into it.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #174
210. I think I'll just follow Jimmy Carter's lead on this.
...so far, only words of praise from Jimmy for the late President Ford.

Maybe Jimmy needs to look into Ford's record, too?
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
126. I thought Ford was a "good, decent man" but a mediocre president
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
129. er...ok.
I don't think I did try to tell you that, but that's ok. I promise not to say anything nice about Gerald Ford if you promise not to say anything bad.

My mom taught me that, lol.

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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
132. There is NO SUCH THING as a good Repug
I don't care how nice they appear in person. Their ideas, their policies, their agenda is nothing less than the enslavement of the human race. They want us to work for them for little to no pay. They take our jobs, ship them overseas where slave labor can be used. They give us Walmarts and super-conglomerates and force small businesses into bankruptcy, then hire those independent workers for minimum wage. They seek to expand this "American democracy" upon the rest of the world, through force if necessary.

Fuck Republicans. All of them.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #132
139. Everything is either black or white, ain't it?
I wish the world were so simple...
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #132
148. Ummm, Lincoln was a Republican
Just sayin'.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #148
169. and Booth shouted "Sic Semper Tyranis" as he fled the scene
...reminds me of the sentiments displayed in this thread.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #148
180. In Lincoln's day Republicans were the Democrats. Check it out. (eom)
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #180
182. Agreed. But Bushout06 made no such distinctions
Just hates Repubs. Thus, you're making my point. Yesterday's Repugs are tomorrow's Dems. The world is just full of those annoying shades of gray, too.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #182
228. Maybe I should have thrown in "nowadays"
Over the last few decades. The Republican party stands for everything that we oppose.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
137. Good point.
On one hand, he wasn't married to the same whackjob idealogy that today's republican party is based on. On the other hand, he did pardon that asshole Nixon.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
140. Thank you for saying what needed to be said
There are other things in Ford's legacy that could be discussed, but I will leave them out for the moment. Suffice it to say there are many things he did that people won't be hearing about on the corporate media.
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southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
142. I'm with you in this one n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
143. Ford sucked ass.
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MidnightWind Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
146. They say you're known by the company you keep
Cheney. Rumsfeld. Bush the elder as his CIA chief. Kinda says it all, no?
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
149. Had Ford possessed a crystal ball and foresaw what you say
I would condemn him too. Since there was no way he cuold have forseen what has happened, I still believe Ford was a good, decent and honorable man. I worked my ass off to beat him in 1976, but I still respect him. Ford's one of the few Republicans I can say that about.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
151. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #151
178. Mods, please don't delete this post.
I want everyone to read it.

Especially the last four paragraphs.

PM me, "Victoryin08". I'll be glad to answer your personal questions, using my real name, if you tell me yours.

Deal?
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
161. excellent post
thank you. thank you a lot.
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forintegrity Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
179. So right, but we'll not hear a word of it cuz
it's the truth! And the media won't report truth!

It's against their Christian religion!

Is this gonna be another 8 days of hell, like they did with Reagan's funeral?

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2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
183. Iva Toguri D'Aquino was pardoned because she was NOT one of the "Tokyo Roses"
Recommended for Greatest page, but Iva Toguri D'Aquino appears to have been innocent of the "Tokyo Rose" charges...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Rose

Tokyo Rose was a generic name given by Allied forces in the South Pacific during World War II to any of approximately one dozen English-speaking female broadcasters of Japanese propaganda.

The name is associated with Iva Toguri D'Aquino (born Ikuko Toguri, July 4, 1916, Los Angeles, California - died September 26, 2006, Chicago, Illinois), a U.S. citizen visiting relatives in Japan at the start of the war. Unable to leave Japan after the start of hostilities, she took work at the Japanese radio show The Zero Hour. After the war, she was investigated and released when the FBI and the U.S. Army's Counter Intelligence Corps found no evidence against her, but influential gossip columnist Walter Winchell lobbied against her. She was brought to the U.S., where she was charged and subsequently convicted of treason.

In 1942, testimony led to D'Aquino being convicted of one of eight counts of treason by the U.S. government. She was given a sentence of 10 years and a $10,000 fine. After six years, she was released and moved to Chicago, Illinois, where Chicago Tribune reporter Ron Yates identified her. Yates later went on to discover that Kenkichi Oki and George Mitsushio, who delivered the most damaging testimony, lied under oath. They stated they had been threatened by the FBI and U.S. occupation police and told what to say and what not to say just hours before the trial. On January 19, 1977, she was pardoned by U.S. President Gerald Ford, who also restored her citizenship. She died in a Chicago hospital, of natural causes, on September 26, 2006, at the age of 90.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #183
188. Thank you for that information
You backed it up.

I did not know that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
184. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #184
193. heh..I was just on that page, trying to make a sensible post out of that,
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 08:34 PM by Gabi Hayes
and some other stuff, but that AP report, incredibly biased, as it is against those who disbelieve the Warren Commission mythology, has it down, for the most part.

the placement of that bullet hole is, according to many, the KEY piece of altered evidence that allowed the Magic Bullet theory to gain the 'credibility' among coincidence theorists to this day.

don't get me started, buy anyone can start here. Ford is among the most HEINOUS, reprehensible liars ever to 'serve' our country.

He, for whatever reason, CHANGED the way the evidence was reported to the world. It was his influence that got the initial wording of the Warren Commission report altered to reflect the needs of whomever he was serving:

http://www.crimemagazine.com/06/ford-jfk,1111-06.htm

In its final report, the review board said: "There have been shortcomings that have led many to question not only the completeness of the autopsy records of President Kennedy, but the lack of a prompt and complete analysis of the records by the Warren Commission."

While it collected and released thousands of previously secret government documents, the board also expressed worry that "critical records may have been withheld" from its scrutiny. It stressed that it was not able to secure "all that was out there."

In 2005, appearing at a scholarly symposium, assassination expert Dr. Jack Gordon went over doctors' statements from the hospital in Dallas where Kennedy was taken after the shooting. Gordon produced quotes from nine doctors who gave the same description of a huge softball size hole in occipital-parietal region of Kennedy's skull, and one nurse who said, "in layman's terms, 'One large hole, back of his head.'" This contradicts the official story that the back of the head was completely intact.

With all of these contradictions emerging both during the Warren Commission hearings and in the aftermath of its final report one has to wonder how the Warren Commission managed to arrive at the conclusions it did.

A key edit in the Warren Report may have helped. The report's first draft said: "A bullet had entered his back at a point slightly below the shoulder to the right of the spine." Had that stood, the trajectory would have made it impossible for the bullet that struck Kennedy to come out his neck, and then somehow critically wound Connally.

Newly released documents show, however, that Warren Commission member Congressman Gerald Ford pressed the panel to change its description of the wound and place it higher in Kennedy's body. Ford wanted the wording changed to: "A bullet had entered the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine." The panel's final version was: "A bullet had entered the base of the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine."

This crucial change only came to light in 1997, when the Assassination Record Review Board released handwritten notes made by Ford that had been kept by J. Lee Rankin, the Warren Commission's chief counsel. Ford's change is even at odds with his own declaration in the Oct. 2, 1964 issue of Life: "I personally believe that one of these three shots missed entirely but which of the three may never be known. I believe that another bullet struck the president in the back and emerged from his throat (and went on to strike Connally.)"

When the alteration was brought to Ford's attention in 1997, he said it "had nothing to do with (thwarting) a conspiracy theory" and was made "only in an attempt to be more precise." Assassination researcher Robert Morningstar, however, called the change "the most significant lie in the whole Warren Commission report." He pointed out that if the bullet had hit Kennedy in the back, it could not have gone on to strike Connally the way the commission said it did. Morningstar contended that the effect of Ford's editing suggested that a bullet hit the president in the neck "raising the wound two or three inches. Without that alteration, they could never have hoodwinked the public as to the true number of assassins."

Ford's alteration supports the single-bullet theory by making a specific point that the bullet entered Kennedy's body ''at the back of his neck'' rather than in his uppermost back, as the commission staff originally wrote.


if you think I'm cracked, do a little digging. Look at the original autopsy photos, which place the bullet in JFK's back well below his shoulder line, as well as the pictures of his coat and shirt, which show the holes to line up, SEVERAL inches below his neck, which is where Ford, etal, would have you believe the bullet supposedly entered his neck.

but, like I said, don't get me started. And don't bring up the BS from McAdams/Posner, etal, who just MAKE stuff up to suit their purposes.

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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
191. Oh let's at least be honest when it comes to the pardon. We all know
a Democratic president would have done the exact same thing.

Those who think otherwise are delusional.

I'm not defending anything else he's responsible for, but the pardon always seem to come up first as to why Ford was such a bad man.

It's silly.

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. NO IT ISN'T, its an endorsement of the idea that Presidents are ABOVE the LAW!
Period, its nothing but, and if a Democrat did it instead of a Repub, well, they would deserve a pissing on the grave too!
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #192
196. amen, and I'll be first in line at President Pelosi's grave if she dares
pardons Cheney and Bush.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #196
197. I don't think she would do that...
If a successful impeachment occurs, lead by her, then I strongly doubt a pardon would be on the table, she would never win an election(re-election?) if that occurred.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #196
201. It's not the correct comparison because she is a DEMOCRAT and
they are REPUBLICANS.

I'm talking about a republican pardoning another republican.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #192
198. Can I just say that when Clinton and/or Carter go, it won't stop honest discussion of their records
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 08:48 PM by riderinthestorm
either. When they go, I believe the critique that DU will bestow upon these two will be every bit as interesting, insightful, thoughtful, provocative and perhaps even mean (!) as Ford's. And I just can't believe anyone thinks that those two guys don't understand that since they are astute historians and realize that their very public lives ensure lively discussions pro and con after they die.

We regularly shred Clinton for example for his blowjob and his lies already, that won't stop just cause he dies.

I don't understand why it's somehow considered taboo to hold a discussion about our past presidents' records, and especially if those presidents did illegal, shady, crooked or even questionable activities that have lain in shadows and could stand a flashlight piercing the gloom....

Thanks for some good posts Solon.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #198
205. I believe we should be a country ruled by law and justice...
Both in our foreign and domestic policy, that is all. The fact of the matter is that its an unspoken assumption that Presidents are immune from prosecution for ANY action they commit in office, regardless of legality. We cannot rightly call this a nation of laws and justice until this attitude has been demonstratively defeated.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #192
199. I didn't say presidents are above the law....I'm saying a Democratic
president most certainly would have done the same thing.

Nobody here has been able to admit that, which is humorous.

Politics is a good 'ol boys/girls club.

They may say bad things about each other on TV, but behind the scenes, it's buddy buddy.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #199
204. Never said, myself, that Democrats are magically immune to political posturing and backslapping.
So that doesn't even register on the radar, its just that this PARTICULAR President DID do exactly that, and it does not reflect well on his character.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #191
217. No. Were you absent during the Constitional civics lesson on Clinton's blow job?
You're silly.

Nixon deserved to be removed from office. I'm not delusional.

You are. That's nuts.

Please name the Democratic President who would have pardoned anyone who did what Richard M. Nixon did.

<taps foot>
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
202. Off to hell to join Nixon and Reagan.
Oh, what stories they'll be able to tell around the eternal campfire.

Don't mind the guys with the pitchforks, boys.
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Coloradan4Truth Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
207. Gerald Ford did NOTHING good for this nation
I millionth your post and hope that someone in the mainstream media is reading! I'm sorry that a man died, but this man did not use what became his power for good at all.

c4t
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theophilus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
208. No. Gerald Ford was a good, decent man. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #208
231. Who pardoned Nixon and protected Pinochet.
You need to check the definition of "decent".
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
209. Happy to K&R.
Ford was an idiot and his stupidity in pardoning Nixon brought us the nightmare we are in now.

Thanks.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
213. You're entitled to your opinion
I'm entitled to mine and I think he was a good decent man.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
216. Meh. Republicans are lionizing him
I'm not, but I'd rather they seek to be more like Ford and less like Reagan (or DeLay, Bush or any of the crop there now)
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
220. Well, considering what we are dealing with now--
--Ford's pardoning of Nixon doesn't seem too significant. Nixon wasn't even 1/10th as bad as Bush the Second. All American presidents in the 20th century pretty much went along with the project of imperial domination of the rest of the world, even though some made some efforts in the line of mitigation of some of its worst effects.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
221. Here's why Steve's post is so important - EXECUTIVE CODDLING
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 10:49 PM by autorank
Ford gave away the rule of law for politicians. You practically need to get caught on tape to be prosecuted if your a politician. It has become the fraternal order of the gentleman's club.

First,the pardon was wrong. If any single person on this thread had ordered an air mission on their neighbors, had ordered shake downs for campaign donations, had orchestrated a cover up that represented a c o n s p i r a c y to obstruct justice...any of those acts would have landed any of us in court and likely in jail for some real time. Nixon was going to be indicted by a scion of the establishment. That's how bad it was.

I didn't feel healed by Ford and I lived in NYC at the time. Nobody I ran into felt healed, not one single person.

The "healing a nation" was one of the most blatant and offensive corporate media contrivances...uttered again and again and again (as liars are prone to do) as though it were truth.

Here is what President Ford said in his pardon announcement:

My conscience tells me clearly and certainly that I cannot prolong the bad dreams that continue to reopen a chapter that is closed. My conscience tells me that only I, as President, have the constitutional power to firmly shut and seal this book. My conscience tells me it is my duty, not merely to proclaim domestic tranquility but to use every means that I have to insure it.


It is all about The Power of Nightmares apparently. Maybe it was the nightmares of the 60% of Americans who opposed the pardon.

They are special, they are above the law, they are first in line for mercy and they circle the wagons in their own defense whenever one of them is caught.

We, mere minions that we are, are the ones who have to obey and abandon all hope for mercy, whatever the situation.

Way at Steve
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #221
222. Perfectly said. He laid the foundation of the mess we have now.
Nixon walked, along with all the pals. Who says you do not learn from history? Poppy did, him being pissed at not being selected for VP under Ford, instead having the horror of horrors, the walking, talking and original intern screwing "Rockefeller Republican" instead of him.

They learned, and why do you think the first thing the Chimp did was to seal items to be released during his emperorship? You think the moron came up with that himself?

Thanks for the closure Mr. Ford.

You always had a good golf swing. There, I said something nice.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #222
225. And a very compassionate wife....
That's two kind things and now there are two of us on this historical interpretation so we're an ad hoc DU faction...where's Demopedia...take it down.

No one should be above the law. The end of habeas corpus shows where that theme ends up.

Great new year to you.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
223. Damn Right...thanx and
:kick: kick
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Hailtothechimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
224. Well said.
And all of the "RIP Mr. honorable president who did his best" chorus here on DU can read this and STFU.

Was he a bad man? Likely not. But he did allow one man to get away with many bad things. And that is bad.
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
226. Fuck Gerald R. Ford with a cactus
Dead or not I have less than no respect for the man; the fucker let Nixon off with a lot more than just Watergate.






"Even though it has become one of the most memorable images of the twentieth century, President Nixon once doubted the authenticity of my photograph when he saw it in the papers on June 12, 1972.... The picture for me and unquestionably for many others could not have been more real. The photo was as authentic as the Vietnam war itself. The horror of the Vietnam war recorded by me did not have to be fixed. That terrified little girl is still alive today and has become an eloquent testimony to the authenticity of that photo. That moment thirty years ago will be one Kim Phuc and I will never forget. It has ultimately changed both our lives" (Nick Ut, AP photographer, from program booklet for Humanist Art/Symbolic Sites: An Art Forum for the 21st Century).





And, of course, he certainly wasn't a good judge of character, one of the most important prerequisites in a president, one would think:




No respect for the jerk. None. He didn't heal anything.
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Scott Neelan Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
227. With Hindsight Comes Clarity
I'm coming out of a long-time lurk for a moment just to say this: I wholeheartedly agree with the OP, and with those that refuse to buy into the white-washing and "respect for the dead" line. All that comes of respecting the dead is giving free passes to people that don't deserve them.

Sure, Ford's presidency was mostly uneventful. Sure, he was more boring and unimaginative than evil. However, the few black marks he has on his record turned out to be festering wounds on this country. His pardoning of Nixon helped create the political atmosphere that led to Iran/Contra criminals getting off free, the idea that politicians don't have anyone to answer to but themselves. His serving on the Warren Commission basically cut off all discussion and investigation of a chain of events that may very well have been connected...however, thanks to Ford, we'll never know.

Sure, he came out against the Iraq war. Sure, he helped finish off Vietnam. He also approved slaughter elsewhere. He also helped extend the image of the bumbling American president with all those shots of him stumbling out of Air Force One. He also helped, in several ways, spark the political era that's led us to the PNAC, to the neoconservative movement, to Reagan and the Bush Dynasty.

This is a place for open, honest discussion. Ford may have been a good man to his family. He may have said and thought a few things I agree with. But his political record was horrible, and that's from complete hindsight. His presidency came 11 years before my birth, but yet I can see through the revision of his legacy. Why can't anyone else?

(Oh, and personally, the last semi-respectable Republican president was Eisenhower...at least his repenting for his mistakes came while he was still in office)
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #227
229. Good first post.
The phony eulogies will be over in a few days, at least there's that.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #227
235. Thanks, and I agree 100%
Post more. Your point of view is needed.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
230. Great post 100% correct n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
232. ttt
nt
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