Kids With High IQs Grow Up to Be Vegetarians

[oberliner]

FRIDAY, Dec. 15 (HealthDay News) -- As a child's IQ rises, his taste for meat in adulthood declines, a new study suggests.

British researchers have found that children's IQ predicts their likelihood of becoming vegetarians as young adults -- lowering their risk for cardiovascular disease in the process. The finding could explain the link between smarts and better health, the investigators say.

"Brighter people tend to have healthier dietary habits," concluded lead author Catharine Gale, a senior research fellow at the MRC Epidemiology Resource Centre of the University of Southampton and Southampton General Hospital.

Recent studies suggest that vegetarianism may be associated with lower cholesterol, reduced risk of obesity and heart disease. This might explain why children with high IQs tend to have a lower risk of heart disease in later life.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20061215/hl_hsn/kidswithhighiqsgrowuptobevegetarians

[havocmom]

1. Know several MENSA members who really love meat.

Some hunt. Do I really want to read the article?
:shrug:

[Maddy McCall]

2. My guess: For every intelligent vegan, there are 1000 intelligent omnis.

[havocmom]

7. Hey Maddy, didn't early pre-human development of much larger brains happen

when our distant ancestors started getting a lot more protein?

[Vexatious Ape]

26. you got it

Big brains need a lot of protein. No such thing as a veggie burger a million or more years ago. It doesn't take much brain power to eat fruit or a damn leaf off a tree--it does however take a bit of gray matter for a clumsy primate with no speed, small teeth, and no claws to kill another animal. It takes teamwork and that takes brains.

[KittyWampus]

37. actually a good deal of the meat eaten by our ancestors was CARRION scavanged from kills

and man's real development into a civilized society came with GRAINS and cultivation.

[Maddy McCall]

49. Depends on what you think of as civilized.

The knowledge to implement horticulture would never have happened had not the human cranial capacity grown so much during the Homo Habilis and Homo Erectus periods--during which times humans began to utilize and perfected the collective hunt, a feat that required planning and forethought.

Homo Erectus buried their dead with ceremony, used fire to cook and to warm themselves, traveled out of Africa and into other continents, made pretty impressive stone implements--"civilized" is such a multi-defined word.

[Zhade]

56. Now - regale us with your understanding of Intelligent Design "science"!

:rofl:

[6000eliot]

34. The only people who believe Mensa members are geniuses are Mensa members.

The only ones I've ever known have been right-wing whack jobs.

[niyad]

35. on the other hand, the MENSA members I know (including myself) are NOT rightwing whack jobs, but,

for the most part, quite progressive, even radical.

[mykpart]

3. My son with IQ 141

can eat a whole cow at a sitting. I question the validity of the study. But then, if it's only in Great Britain, their meat is pretty awful. I'd rather eat grass than steak and kidney pie!

[GoneOffShore]

4. Depends whose steak and kidney

Fergus Henderson is the best cook in Britain and his restaurant serves "organ meat" all the time. He did a great cookbook called "The Whole Beast - Nose to Tail Cooking".

There is nothing like a good grilled kidney with bacon and fried bread!

[bananas]

63. Ack! That just reminded me of a Julia Childs spoof on Saturday Night Live

Where she's chopping vegetables and cuts off her hand.

[The Magistrate]

6. Hear Hear, Ma'am, On The The Steak And Kidney Pud!

Liked the old canned lamb curry, though, Lord save me....

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. Partly true, I'm sure.

I've yet to meet an ignorant vegetarian in the way that I've met far, far, far more ignorant meat eating pieces of shit than should be allowed to exist.

I know of no vegetarian white trash or other lower forms of humanity.

But, I also know plenty of meat eating smart people who have mensa level IQs - myself included.

So I will partly agree with this study, but partly disagree - I don't think their conclusion that smart people, that is, people who are evolving humanity and providing for the future of humanity, ipso facto tend toward vegetarianism; but I will say that those who tend toward vegetarianism tend to also be the type of humans who are smart, intelligent, intellectual, and otherwise necessary for the gene pool and the future of humanity.

[mykpart]

8. All smart people are not vegetarians, but all vegetarians are smart!

[bridgit]

14. you so funny...

:)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Based On Some Of The Logical Arguments I've Seen From Some Over Time Here? Not Quite.

[G Hawes]

9. I'm not convinced.

My 18 year old daughter is a vegetarian, and she is also uber-smart with a very high IQ, but I'm not convinced that there is a correlation between her intelligence and her vegetarian choice. The study linked in the OP, in my view, does not support any such correlation either.

Edit: My point above refers to the conclusion drawn in the OP that "smarter kids become vegetarians." I am not convinced that that's the case on the basis of this study. Even though my daughter is of very high intelligence and is also a vegetarian, I am not convinced that one has anything to do with the other.

edit to delete superfluous content that probably strayed off topic.

[frustrated_lefty]

10. Eh, 165 IQ, gimme steak and taters.

Rabbit food is for rabbits.

[buzzard]

11. My son has a high IQ (139) and chooses a mainly vegetarian diet my husband has

a higher IQ 147 and eats his meat almost raw. I think that there must be some flaws in this study based on personal observation. I also think IQ is not the best determinant of success in life emotional IQ better determines how one uses their cognitive abilities.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. a modification of diet that I once tried helped me.

When I was in college, for a year, I quit eating beef, pork, and chicken, because of the grease.
I still ate eggs, milk, cheese, fish and stuff like that.

It was very easy to cut out those three forms of meat and I felt a LOT better. I should do it again.

[JCMach1]

13. I call BS on this one... Please... It' s also been proven people with high IQ's

know how to manipulate research data... so there...

[whoneedstickets]

15. A real irony here...

Without a diet rich in protein, human beings could not grow such large brains! Protein deficiencies in gestation or post-natal diet can result in abnormal brain development. So its good that those bright kids parents fed them meat allowing them to grow up smart enough to give it up later.

Human beings are omnivorous by evolutionary development. I choose not to fight this but to follow a path of conscious moderation and conscientious shopping for health and environmental reasons.

[silverojo]

18. Now, that's a sensible attitude! n/t

Good for you!!

[KittyWampus]

39. jeez, people in this thread seem to think protein only comes from animals. REGULAR protein

in our ancestors diets did not come until after people became more sedentary and also began cultivated grains and legumes.

The protein from animals was not available on such a regular basis for our earliest ancestors that it could account for larger brain size alone.

[SmileyBoy]

16. Who came up with this Bullshit?? My IQ is 143 and I LOVE meat.

This is Grade-A Choice Cut BULLSHIT.

[KittyWampus]

40. that's what you call ancedotal evidence. It's not relevant to a controlled study.

[HughMoran]

17. Well, I eat less meat than many

...but I'd never do without...

[leftofthedial]

19. demonstrably false

as worded

[depakid]

36. No it's not false- though it may be spurious

This cohort data goes back over 35 years and has been analyzed for many sets of correlations.

In this case- in Britain in particular, high IQ and educational achievement are strongly correlated with the fathers occupation and socioeconomic status. This is important due to "life course effects," which lead to adverse health outcomes.

In addition, there IS demonstrable evidence that IQ is related to one's own socioeconomic status- which in turn is correlated with better eating and lifestyle habits. In addition, socioeconomic status correlated with job stress and job demand/control- which ARE remarkable predictors of coronary heart disease.

One would assume that the researchers applied statistical controls to account for these interactions- but they're notorious hard to do.

[leftofthedial]

53. I was a high IQ kid. I grew up to be an omnivore.

Therefore, the statement is false.

A statement like "vegetarianism is correlated with high IQ" might well be true.

[Common Sense Party]

20. WHat I find amazing is the number of DUers who not only

know but loudly proclaim their IQ "number" as if it means anything.

I haven't a clue what my IQ is, nor do I care.

If I did, and if it were high, I'm not so sure I'd vociferously announce it for all to see.

It's a label, and a damn imperfect one, at that.

[whoneedstickets]

22. More irony....

Does seeking out and knowing one's IQ invalidate the measure? It could all be very Heisenbergian!!

[Zookeeper]

31. One of my kids has had his I.Q. tested at least four times...

and each result was different. Maybe one time he felt good and got a very high score and another time was distracted and had a lower result. He has ADD and his results can vary depending on whether or not he is taking medication. I've learned to be somewhat skeptical of high I.Q. claims.

FYI, for folks who know their I.Q.: The test was recently adjusted, so if you tested at, say, 140, your result might now be 130.

[Critters2]

57. Yep, I have three different IQs (that I know of)--all over 140

and I'm vegetarian. Do with that what you will.

[2bfree]

50. I'm with you.

We must have a bunch of really smart people here on DU.:boring:

[TomInTib]

21. I was (at the time {maybe still}) the youngest member of IMS...

And I will eat anything that is semi-edible.

But I ain't that young, anymore.

[EFerrari]

29. That's funny, Tom, and what I was thinking.

The smartest people I know often don't know what's put in front of them because they're busy.

Doug and I topped 300 between us but we'd eat whatEVER if we were in the middle of something important.

:)

[dysfunctional press]

23. i didn't.

i'm in the 160-something range, and i love meat.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. What A Ridiculous Notion. I Blow The Theory Just On My Own.

Based on many different IQ tests throughout my years I've been between a low of 152 (off day) and a high of 178. Each time I score genius. And guess what? I LOVE my fucking steaks. Absolutely love em. And my diet totally sucks too. I generally eat junk. Though I do enjoy a crisp fresh garden salad with italian dressing from time to time, and I will readily admit that Cherry Tomatoes are literally my FAVORITE candy (yes, I consider them candy), overall my diet sucks and I love my turkey and gravy and big juicy steaks.

Way I see it, this study is just plain ridiculous.

[depakid]

38. What's ridiculous is that anyone would claim an IQ of 172

That just shows anyone that people know how the tests work (the mean is 100 and the standard deviation is 15 or 16, depending on which version that you take).

That means at your "low end," you scored higher than approximately 99.9% of the people taking the test.

You might be bright- but I'm sorry, you're not that bright. Could be you took unproctored or inappropriate exams, which would skew the scores.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Excuse Me, But That Is A Recorded Fact. If You Don't Like It Or Choose Not To Believe It,

it really isn't my problem. I've scored over 160 on 3 separate occasions. Does it really matter in the scheme of things? Not really. I won't claim that it does. But please don't ever call me a fucking liar either, since you are surmising your attack on sheer ignorance to the facts and have no merit in calling me such, unless you think you are so bright yourself that you are a walking talking master professional barometer of IQ. And if you truly think that to be the case, you should advertise your unheard of talent as being able to guess a person's IQ accurately just from reading a message board.

[depakid]

46. The probablity of this being true under standardized conditions

is EXTREMELY remote.

That's not my opinion- that's just how the frequency distribution works.



My thoughts are that almost everyone I've seen who boasts a claim of an IQ in excess of 2 standard deviations (which by the way, places one at or above 97.725%% of the population) either haven't taken a proper test or didn't have the results analyzed accurately. Or they're just plain making things up.

Also, as you can see from the distribution, 115 is pretty decent score. No shame in that at all.

ps: I've know a handful or two of adults who actually would score above 3 standard deviations- or in a few cases even higher. These folks are polymaths, speak several languages, are artistic and creative and often do engineering and/or complex computer programming too.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. No Kidding.

That's why I'm cool like that. :P

And they were professionally given tests. Not the crap in a classroom ones you get in high school or grade school which are completely invalid and unprofessional.

But thanks for your recognition of the rarity that my mind is. I do pride myself on it, but trust me when I say that as great of a gift that it is, it is also my greatest tragic flaw.

There is such a thing as being too smart for ones own good.

[frustrated_lefty]

54. Depakid, I would ask you to apply

the same statistical analysis to this board. From personal experience, I can tell you OMC ain't nobodie's fool. That aside, with a board this size, do you really find it so unpausible to encounter ONE person who tests three standards above the mean? Really, that frequency kind of supports the statistics you use.

[depakid]

66. It's not so much the stats

though those do apply- it's more in: the patterns and "kinds of" analysis that we might see.

Contrasted with what we may read or might reasonably expect from people who boast of having ridiculously high IQ scores.

Seems to me, oftentimes there's a pattern in there.

I dunno- could be that I am wrong- and if so, or even if not, could be I might also say "best wishes for the New Year!"

[KittyWampus]

42. If you were that freaking smart, you'd realise you are just providing ancedotal evidence

which is meaningless in the context of a controlled scientific study.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. What Controlled Scientific Study? ROFLMAO!

:rofl:

This was far from being a controlled scientific study. Even in the article itself you see its own claims that nothing can really be deduced from it because there were so many questions not taken into consideration to begin with. Had it have been a controlled scientific study, those questions would've been dealt with from the start.

Did you also notice they didn't give you any data whatsoever on the findings? How much smarter were they? Of the people who were above the 50th percentile, or whatever baseline they were using (since they didn't say that either), what percentage became vegetarians? Just saying it was more likely that the higher IQ ones became vegetarians means nothing. I'd wager that the majority of the higher IQ ones were not vegetarians, so doesn't that say something?

Let me explain it further. Say there were 100 people. 20 of them were considered of higher IQ. Of those 20, 3 became vegetarians. Of the remaining 80, 4 became vegetarians. That's a rate of 15% for the higher IQ vs 5% for the lower IQ's. So based on that meaningless assessment one could say that those with higher IQ are 3 times as likely to become vegetarians. But so what? That means 85% of those with higher IQ's choose to NOT become vegetarians. See why now this study is meaningless? What are the numbers? What were the percentages? Did its conclusion actually mean anything at all?

So guess what, I am that 'freaking smart', and smart enough to use critical thinking when reading some agenda driven study that is full of holes, inadequacies and meaningless results.

[depakid]

48. Did you look at the BMJ article? (as opposed to the popular press)

It's a prospective cohort study- which analyzes data over time on a host of things that you usually can't study "for" vis a vis randomized controls (unless you live in some Brave New sort of World).

Key quote from the discussion section:

"Participants of the 1970 British cohort study with higher intelligence test scores in childhood were more likely to report being a vegetarian at age 30 years. This relation was partly accounted for by educational attainment and by occupational social class in adult life but remained statistically significant after adjustment for these factors."

Here's the published study- it's succinct, 3 pages plus another short page of notes.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.39030.675069.55v1?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=vegetarian&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

Curious that Micheal Marmot wasn't cited in the notes. He's done considerable work with this data set as well- as it relates to cardiovascular disease and socioeconomic "life course" factors, which one would expect might be very relevant here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. Just Read It Now. Cracked Me Up Actually.

Now I find this whole premise even more hilarious after learning that the bigggggg higher IQ factor they're talking about; the bigggggg gap that separates the veggies from the non-veggies, that hugeeeee increase in intelligence, was... wait, are you ready for this? Was 5 points! :rofl: 5 whopping IQ points! :rofl: Oh man, I found that too funny. Talk about insignificant! You won't find a master of psychology alive that would attest that 5 points in IQ amounts to anything whatsoever. Hell, get an hour more sleep tonight and tomorrow your IQ would probably score 5 points higher based on that alone! LOL

Seriously. 5 points. That was it? For real? Too damn funny.

I also laughed at the fact that the extreme vegans scored 10 points lower. But overall, this study is so not conclusive of anything. Like I said; if it said anything at all, it's that the majority of those with higher IQ's never become vegetarians to begin with LOL

[Lipton64]

27. What do you call a vegetarian who eats fish?

I know there's a name for it but I forgot it sadly. Fish-eating vegetarians on the island of Okinawa have the highest life expectancy on the planet.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. There is no such thing.

If you eat fish (and I do- it's tasty!) you're not a vegetarian.

[Critters2]

59. People who eat fish but no other meat are called "pescatarians"

but this is NOT a form of vegetarianism. You see, fish is not a vegetable.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

30. All meat-eaters should be offended by this study.

Well, all bright meat-eaters anyway. Or many of them.
I would be offended, if I were a bright meat-eater.
I wouldn't act as if I were offended,
because i would be too bright to,
but I would make fun of the study. In any case,
I know a nunmber of meat-eaters who are not stupid,
so there must be something wrong with the study.

[northofdenali]

32. I've never met an ignorant vegetarian -

but I have met thousands of highly intelligent, liberal omnivores!

To each her own! But gimme a moose steak (or roast, I'm not picky) first! :evilgrin:

[Warren DeMontague]

33. "There was no difference in IQ score between strict vegetarians and those who said

they were vegetarian but who said they ate fish or chicken, the researchers add."

Oh, what a relief. I don't eat red meat, either- (And I'm clearly a genius!) -but I don't call that being a "vegetarian". I call that being someone who has a relatively healthy diet that includes fish and chicken.

So, yeah; if the respondents to this study were really that smart, they would realize that fish and chicken are MEAT.

[uppityperson]

41. 5 words

Lies, damned lies and statistics

[Stuckinthebush]

51. Two words

Scientific Inquiry

There is a process. No scientist will say that one study proves something. This study suggests there is a link between the two. More scientists will come along and say, "Interesting! Let's see if we can reject the null hypothesis." Then they will study the same thing with better controls and possibly come up with different conclusions. Then more scientists will do it...and more...and more...etc.

This is the scientific method.

What I find very interesting from this thread is the level of attack from DUers toward this study. Perhaps vegetarianism is better for us than eating meat. Hmmm...interesting study. Let's examine the claims in light of other nutritional studies about vegetarians and perhaps come up with some new hypotheses to test.

[frustrated_lefty]

55. Vegetarians make smelly farts.

[uppityperson]

58. which is the cause? brighter people have better diets or better diets cause brighter people?

I am shortening vegetarian to veggie in my remarks. Yes, I have been veggie at times.

Summary: This test indicated that because someone is bright as a child, they have more of a tendency to eat vegetarian as an adult. Also vegetarians are less likely to smoke, more likely to be healthier.

Study results: Group of kids IQ tested at age 10. Those with higher IQ's had more of a tendency to be veggies at 30. Whether or not they ate veggie as kids is unknown. More kids with higher IQs at age 10 were veggies at age 30 (in this study) than people with lower IQs at age 10.

Quotes from article: "Vegetarians were more likely to be female, of higher social class and better educated, but IQ was still a significant predictor of being vegetarian after adjustment for these factors, Gale said"
"Given these factors, "we cannot draw any solid conclusions from this research," Sandon added."

Questions from me: So, what is a cause? What is an effect? Why were kids IQ tested at age 10, what other factors come into play here? Why did these people become veggies? Were they raised veggie, or did they go to college and find other veggies there? Moral veggies or health or environmental reasons for being veggies? What else happened between ALL the kids/adults in this study between ages 10 and 30?

End of brief.

[Stuckinthebush]

65. Great questions

Now....test those hypotheses.

[karlrschneider]

43. I'm not a vegetarian, I'm a humanitarian.

...

[Zhade]

52. Again - correlation is not causation.

(The high IQ of many DUers, as well as my own, underline that fact.)

[flvegan]

60. *snicker* By so many of the posts here...point proven.

"I/my kid/this person I know/blah blah blah has an IQ of a trillion and eats meat..."

Weak.

[Critters2]

61. I qualify for both MENSA and the DAR--and can't see any reason to join

either. Just not people I want to hang around with.

I do hang out with vegetarians, though.

[onecent]

62. Bunch of BS this is. What "RESEARCHERS" figured this shit out?