James Kim trekked much farther than first thought (Was 7 Miles from Lodge)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16107451/

A San Francisco man who was stranded with his family in the snowy wilderness walked more than 16 miles in search of help before he died — six more than originally thought, a search official said Saturday.

James Kim, 35, his wife and their two daughters were about seven miles from a fishing lodge stocked with food, not the one mile as authorities earlier thought, said Phil Turnbull, a fire chief in Josephine County.

A mapping error led to the incorrect figures, but did not affect the search for Kim, Turnbull said.

Turnbull said it was important to “set the public record straight” and “to emphasize the efforts Mr. Kim made to rescue his family.”

Interesting video at the story site. Story of a man who got stranded on same road 10 years ago and starved to death staying with his truck.

Dec. 9: Ten years ago, a father turned down a snow-packed Oregon road, became trapped and starved to death. This week, a Calif. man died trying to save his family after it got stuck on the same road. NBC's John Larson reports.

[bahrbearian]

1. The guy did everything he could to save his family and he did,

I've logged for many years and if someone blows the lock off a gate, and leaves the road open is not helping anyone,, who vandalized the Gate?

[Ken Burch]

3. They need to put boulders in the path of this road so nobody ever tries to use it again.

No amount of timber is worth the lives of innocent people.

Mr. Kim was a hero. His determination and courage are an example to us all.

[bahrbearian]

8. No. certain people need to have access,

Maybe some kind of signs,, Nobody can go by Forest Service Road Numbers, who really understands them or have maps of them, and after all the National Forest belong to the Commons not the timber companies.

[OzarkDem]

11. Forest service roads have many uses

fighting forest fires is one example.

[Ken Burch]

36. Well, then, they need a heavy gate, not a small fence

that can't be opened except, perhaps, by a combination lock or voice-recognition software.

Otherwise, this shit is going to happen again.

[EFerrari]

43. On another thread, Gregorian recounted fire arms being used

with impunity to blow these fences open. It sounds as though we have an entitled attitude problem.

And *this* attitude is a legacy of the BFEE. The "I want mine and f$ck you" attitude.

[Ken Burch]

48. I grew up in West Salem, Oregon

And remember anti-LCDC (state land use planning) graffiti all over the place. The redneck moneygrubbers got there way there, and what was once a paradise of orchards and woodlands is now condo hell.

The asshole who blew off that gate lock sounds like the only slightly crazier cousin of those greedheads who trashed my neighborhood.

[Eugene]

26. The road had a locked gate. Vandals opened it.

OREGON
Agency had locked gate to road Kims took
Route family used was closed after deer-hunting season

Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, December 9, 2006

The logging road that James Kim drove down when his family got lost
in the mountains of southern Oregon was supposed to be secured by a
locked gate, but someone cut the lock in recent weeks, authorities
said Friday.

-snip-

Full article: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/09/BAGTJMSJ9T1.DTL

[petgoat]

106. I resent the closing of roads and trails to protect people from mistakes.

Pretty soon you won't be able to walk on the beach unless it's paved and there's
a guardrail to keep you out of the surf.

I've driven the Merlin Agness road in good weather in November. I believe it's
paved all the way. Sometimes in the Nat'l Forest the grading at the junctions is
very aggressive, so a minor side road could look major if covered by snow. You need
to pay attention to the signs designating the road. Of course vandals knocking them
down, or even moving them, is always a danger.

But please, we have too many boulders on too many roads already. Beware of sudden
reactionary "This Must Never Happen Again!" policy changes.

[StrictlyRockers]

61. Here's a link to the article in the Oregonian.

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/oregonian/index.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_oregonian_news/archives/2006_12.html

[EFerrari]

2. This was a truly remarkable man. 16 miles after so many

days of struggling to feed and warm the family. So sad. What a terrible loss.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. He died a hero, IMO.

[EFerrari]

12. He did. Their family pictures are enough to break your heart.

There's a pall all over the Bay Area.

[uppityperson]

17. Indeed. They got stuck by a bad mistake, and he is a hero for what he did then.

[Duer 157099]

4. That Lodge does not look to be 7 miles away

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=42.5749+N,+123.7505+W+&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=15&ll=42.650217,-123.733649&spn=0.023263,0.054245&t=h

Not sure why they felt they had to "set the story straight" -- ??

[EFerrari]

5. Are you looking at the same map Kim looked at when

he miscalculated where the town was?

Those rescue folks are pretty torn up about this. It looks like they're trying to be as careful as can be. :(

[Duer 157099]

13. No. I'm looking at a satellite image

and I'm pretty sure about this. They said his body was found about half a mile from the Rogue River, and 1-2 miles from the car. That puts the car right about here:

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=42.6490+N,+123.7444+W+&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=42.648985,-123.744421&spn=0.022348,0.054245&t=h&om=1&iwloc=addr

and the Lodge is here:

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=42.6570+N,+123.7338+W&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=42.656939,-123.733864&spn=0.02326,0.054245&t=h&om=1

with James being found approximately here:

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=42.6429+N,+123.7252+W++&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=42.642925,-123.725195&spn=0.046531,0.10849&t=h&om=1

Just wondering why.

(edited to correct one link)

[EFerrari]

16. On dial up for the weekend and can't go look.

I'd be interested to see what other DUers think. :)

[Duer 157099]

25. Can you view this? It should be smaller

[EFerrari]

28. Sure! What are the three points, top to bottom?

What a huge piece of country.

[Duer 157099]

29. The Lodge is at the beach, on the river (top left)

the car is just south of that and Big Windy Creek is to the right.

[RamboLiberal]

14. Owner of lodge thought the reports were wrong

From the article:

The owner of the lodge said he didn’t recognize the area as being near his lodge and double-checked.

Turnbull said the vehicle was 6.37 miles farther along the road, meaning James Kim had walked that much farther than searchers first thought.

[bahrbearian]

18. I'd like to see anybody do what he did,, with a Vandalized Gate in

a snow storm , care to give it a try? You haven't been in the Nation Forest much I assume. and the reason they want to set the Record Straight is because the MS took the position that if he stayed with his family he would have be OK. Not, he and his family would have starved to death. Yeah he took a chance looking for the Pass,, He made a wrong turn , but there are no signs in our "Commons" and there are millions of miles of roads in our "Commons".

[Duer 157099]

21. I'm not dissing him at all

Not at all.

[EFerrari]

22. And didn't his steps in the snow lead the copter pilot to the car?

I haven't been up there but have hiked around Yosemite. Wouldn't care to be lost up there in a snowstorm.

[roguevalley]

51. some of those places are so far from being visible you could

walk right past them and not know they were there. this is very dense forest and amazingly disorienting. I grew up there. It is easy to get lost. bless all of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Wow I remember that story from 10 years ago!

I had no idea it was this same road. IIRC, that man was not found because the authorities did not think to search a road closed in winter, but the gate had been vandalized. Sounds like the state of Oregon needs to put up a better gate that vandals cannot break open. Or how about a sign or two along the road that says "IMPASSABLE IN WINTER"?

[OzarkDem]

9. Signs along the road would be an improvement

and not that expensive, either.

[hedgehog]

95. How about several that say "TURN BACK NOW!" similar to the

WRONG WAY signs put up at freeway entrances?

[EFerrari]

10. It would be quite a project to figure out ALL the perimeter gates

and then figure out away to keep the scofflaws from vandalizing them.

Maybe signs that say "TEN FOOT WOMEN ARMED AND LOOKING FOR YOU" would work better.

[uppityperson]

15. k&r for a man who did what he could to save his family.

[achtung_circus]

19. Google Earth Community has a thread on this.

You have to be a member, though.

Someone from the area has posted locations for the events. I measured the distance from the car to the lodge, it's .77 miles as the crow flies, by following the road it's 2.1 miles, if you know where you're going.

[EFerrari]

20. Are they sure they have the correct location for the car?

RamboLiberal posted above that the property owner raised that question.

[achtung_circus]

24. These are revised locations

posted by someone who works in the area. If I was on my laptop rather than the GF's desktop I'd do a screen grab, but it's at home.

[Duer 157099]

27. I came to a similar conclusion, see posts 13 and 15 above

Not that it means *anything* in terms of James heroic behavior, etc -- it's just curious

[EFerrari]

30. Interesting. It wouldn't be surprising if the people pouring over

these maps make mistakes. I don't know how any of them showed up for work the day after.

[Erika]

The maps were correct

But you don't expect anyone to take off onto a logging road in the winter. There was no common sense used by Kim.

[EFerrari]

45. You couldn't be more wrong or more callous.

[roguevalley]

52. people live in that area up dirt roads. its built up in the surrounding

countryside. its easy to get lost. he didn't know the area, the gate was vandalized. good grief. common sense had nothing to do with their predicament. have pity.

[achtung_circus]

32. Agreed

and your screen cap above is very similar to the locations on Google Earth. You wound have to know exactly where you were going to follow that road to the lodge.

Two miles can be an eternity.

[Duer 157099]

34. I don't think anyone was suggesting that he should have found the lodge

I really think that the proximity of the Lodge is one of those horrifying ironies.

How could anyone intuit that they should continue down that road? I doubt any maps even clearly show that a lodge is there.

It's just terribly sad that they were so (relatively) close and yet so far away.

My heart just breaks for them, and I only hope that he knew, or believed, that his family had been rescued (maybe he heard all the copters). I hope he died in peace.

[EFerrari]

40. I visited my dad in the Midwest and one afternoon, he drove us

to his lodge.

Unless you were Kreskin, you'd never have found it on your own.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. My marriage nearly ended one night in the Ozarks

when we were trying to find sister in law's cabin in the dark. It was our anniversary, we left home too late, argued about which car to take . . . It was one of those horrible experiences we never talk about anymore. :scared:

[EFerrari]

31. I wonder what that means, "if you know where you're going"?

Are there cutoffs? Detours?

I used to take a cutoff from Silicon Valley up to the Santa Cruz Mountains that was a road the County probably didn't want to own and that wasn't on any map. And a road no one should take, for that matter, unless they were prepared to be careful.

[achtung_circus]

55. In order to get to the lodge

one would have to make a very hard turn up the road and follow a counterintuitive path, almost reversing direction 180 degrees. Then a very winding road that in the absence of signage, which may or may not exist, would give no clue that it's that near.

Pure irony that the lodge was that close.

[EFerrari]

62. The cutoff I took was like that. And although I was a regular

commuter in that area, someone had to point it out to me.

It has since been blocked off as unsafe, which is probably right.

Damn.

[pitohui]

23. he did all a man can

unfortunately life is unfair and sometimes you do everything right and everything heroic and you're still fucked

fate

let him rest in peace, he did all anyone could ask him to

[uppityperson]

33. indeed pitohui

We all are going to die sometime. Trying to have a good life, and a good death, is a good thing.

[Erika]

38. His intent was good and noble.

But he did not do his homework before he travelled in the Rockies.

[Retrograde]

79. not the Rockies

not even the Cascades. The Rockies are a couple of states to the east. This was the Coast Range, with elevations only up to about 4000 feet or so, and between 2 well-traveled routes. . They weren't planning a mountain trek.

Aside from the initial wrong turn, from what I've read in the Bay Area papers the Kims did everything survival experts suggest when you're in an unexpected situation. They found a water source (melted snow), found some edible berries, kept what firewood they found as dry as possible under their car, stayed with their vehicle as long as they thought feasible, built a fire, etc. The "go or stay" decision is a hard one: while it's generally considered best to stay, there are also cases of people being stuck in a place so remote that their bodies were not found for months after they starved in their vehicles. Remember, they had seen no signs of humans for nearly a week before James Kim set out, I suspect in desperation.

[mustang]

105. Exactly

I don't think anyone can judge their decisions. We don't know all of the details. It's so easy to sit back in a warm house and a full stomach to question what the family did. Seven days is a long time, expecially with small children. They burned their tires for a signal (and warmth) with no response. They were out of resources. They studied a map and they thought a town was in walking distance. Of course hindsight is 20/20. But a family starving, no heat, no food, no light, no hope. The darkness at night, the cold. The fear.

I won't ever judge what they did. Even Kati had an umbrela with reflective tape on it. She wrote SOS in the snow. They were resourseful and did the best they could. It's reported that they studied the map for days, finally deciding to seek help on their own. How long were they supposed to wait? It must of have been a horrible, hard decision. Unless someone was actually there at the time, I don't think any of us should criticize the horror, the choices, and the outcome this family has suffered.

[uppityperson]

81. Bwahahahahaha, "Rockies"? Boy he walked a long ways.

you just showed how seriously to take you, thank you for that.

[Kingshakabobo]

92. Rockies????????

Clown.

[hedgehog]

96. He didn't think he was traveling in the mountains.

He thought he was taking a road to the beach.

[Retrograde]

100. the mountains are between the 2 major north-south routes

There really are only 2 major highways going north-south along the coast. US101 roughly follows the ocean (where there's room for it, and a valley or so inland where there's not), and I-5 goes up the central valley in California, over the Siskiyou mountains and then up the Willamette valley in Oregon. Because of their tectonic history, California, Oregon and Washington are a series of approximately parallel valleys separated by rugged mountains, with only a few places to cross them.

Reading the various threads on this subject, I can mostly pick out the people who are familiar with the west coast. Most maps just don't convey the scale of the land, or how remote and sparsely occupied it is.

[AtomicKitten]

35. a genuine tragedy

[Erika]

37. You don't travel in the Pacific NW lightly in winter time

Kim was either ignorant or an idiot. You don't go off the main roads. He could have safely driven the road if he had waited three days and kept his family safe in the vehicle.

We have the homeless sleeping under bridges in these temps. Mr. Kim was honorable but an idiot when it comes to travelling in the NW.

[EFerrari]

39. Erika,do you have any idea how awful your remarks about

this man that gave his life to save his family sound?

Do you habitually abuse the dead?

[Erika]

41. I live in the Rocky Mountains

Bogus Basin, a ski resort is 16 miles away at 6,500 feet.

The mountains the Kims were lost in ranged from 4,000 to 5,000 feet. If the Kims had just stayed still for 72 hours, they could have driven their vehicle to safety. The road was very stable. They were ignorant and ill prepared. They were utterly stupid to leave Roseburg after dark to travel in the mountains. They were ignorant in not telling relatives they were setting off in the dark and to call for help if they didn't communicate within 12 hours.

My hope is that others won't be as ignorant about mountain travelling in the NW as the Kims were.

[EFerrari]

42. Are you aware that abusiveness isn't a effective learning tool? n/t

[Erika]

44. If you travel in the Rocky Mountains

you better get the details. It is a tragedy about this family. But Mr. Kim brought it on. He should have done his homework and stayed in Roseburg.

[EFerrari]

46. I rest my case. n/t

[uppityperson]

82. Rockies?

:rofl: :rofl::rofl:

[Shakespeare]

60. You appear to be confusing your mountain ranges.

Perhaps you shouldn't venture out, either.

[Erika]

65. Huh? n/t

[uppityperson]

98. Here is some info that might help

They were in Oregon in Cascade Mts, Rockies are Montana, WY, Colorado


See where the "n" is in Oregon, that is around where they were. See where the Rockies are(Montana down through Colorado)?




Test your geography knowledge http://www.lizardpoint.com/fun/geoquiz/usaquiz.html

[Garbo 2004]

101. Actually they were in the Klamath-Siskiyou mountains. West of Cascades.

But that's a nit compared to the poster repeatedly talking about the Rocky Mountains in reference to western Oregon. One would think someone who says she lives in the Rockies would actually know where they are.

[uppityperson]

102. true, they are different, I always think of them as a continuum

but then the Olympics are not part of the Cascades either. Rockies indeed.

[Trajan]

47. I dont think you realize just how awfully mean you sound ....

Its as if you believe awful death is a just punishment for making a mistake ...

Let's hope you live a perfect, unblemished, unmistaken life ....

[Erika]

49. You need to learn about the Pacific NW and the Rocky Mtns

These deaths are fairly common. Much of the land is controlled by the BLM and few $ are spent on their maintenance and warnings. The common sense of the public is supposed to step in.

There are many who feel Mr. Kim may have been a fantastic breadwinner, father, and husband, but who was totally ignorant when it came to the Rockies.

Lows in the 20's and 30's were NOT life endangering. As I said before, we have those sleeping under bridges at the same temps.

[Trajan]

50. I live in the NW .....

So there isnt much I have to brush up on here ....

When all is said and done: we are still human beings, and hopefully, we possess even a little sympathy ....

Even for the ignorant ....

Then again: His corpse is available for the kicking ... an easy target for ya ....

Have at it, if it makes you feel better ....

[Erika]

53. Your kicking of a corpse is your own

Don't try to lay it on me.

[Trajan]

57. Your words speak for themselves .....

I am in the consensus position here ....

[Paladin]

75. You're Using A Tragic Incident......

....to adopt a pose of smug, heartless, 20/20 hindsight superiority, and you're doing it on message board viewed by thousands all over the world. I'd be careful who you refer to as an idiot......

[roguevalley]

54. so, he died from 'ignorance', rather than someone vandalizing a

lock that would have prevented them getting lost. most people from other places aren't aware how easy it is to get lost in that area. i personally would never kick them when they die. I live in the rockies now and I lived in that area most of my life. i find his death diminishes me. too bad you find it an excuse to kick him.

[Erika]

56. You don't take off on unknown roads with 2 small children

in the NW. Anyone who lives there, knows that. Any outsider should have that common sense if they did the homework.

This was a tragedy. But a preventable one.

[EFerrari]

63. That the tragedy was preventable is no excuse to insult

a man who gave his life to save his family.

It doesn't follow. My whole town disagrees with the imprecations you have heaped on this poor man's head. We are in mourning.

The very least you could do is respect that.

[Erika]

66. I honor his intentions

But not his homework.

[EFerrari]

67. A man has died. A family has been destroyed.

Your insights may be correct and they might be more useful at a later time to a grieving community.

[here_is_to_hope]

76. "Others" may be in the majority

in handing out heroic status for Kim but I agree with you Erika, no way should he have done what he did. He put himself and his family in that situation through pure stupidity.

The poster that said "lock the gate!", well, yeah, access to our public lands should be restricted.
:sarcasm:

Welcome to the nanny state-let us save you from yourself.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[here_is_to_hope]

86. Oh, so Im a freeper because

I dont feel that we need a nanny state to babysit others who do not know it is unwise to travel across the coast range on a dirt road in the winter?
Yeah, good luck with that.
You may need a babysitter, you may feel that access to publics should be controlled, you may even think that Kim is some kind of hero. You are free to do so. Every one is.
Some of us dont see him as a hero but as a man who seriously fucked up and then tried to save himself and his family from his mistake.
I cannot see how locking up the woods and posting signs every three feet would stop others from doing the same thing.
It would certainly stop the rest of us from enjoying the woods.
I do not need a sign nor a locked gate to keep from from doing something stupid.
Do you?

[uppityperson]

88. You do realize why the family was finally found, don't you?

A local helicopter pilot started thinking that maybe they were stuck where someone else was many yrs ago, but that person stayed there and eventually starved to death. The junction they went wrong on was an easy to mistake one, one that led to a snowed in dead end road. Hence the gate, to keep people from going there and doing this.

I am glad that you don't need a locked gate to keep from doing something stupid, good for you. If you get called a freeper, please alert on that post since that is against DU rules, and not respond by being condescending or insulting back.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

108. You are not a freeper

necessarily, but your posts would fit in real nicely over there.
Cold-blooded lizards over there.

[here_is_to_hope]

109. Yeah, common sense and

personal responsibility = "freeper"...:shrug:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

110. Well, here is to hope you grow a heart.

You may need one some day.

[roguevalley]

99. I lived there half my life. I know what those roads are like personally.

The damned chain was cut. The damned. chain. was. cut. He didn't die of ignorance. he was killed by someone.

[Garbo 2004]

91. Perhaps you should learn that the Rockies aren't in Western Oregon. Kim wasn't in the Rockies. n/t

[kickysnana]

72. Just because he died a hero doesn't mean he wasn't an idiot

for ignoring the locals about routes in that area this time of year.

And if calling him an idiot keeps one person who reads it from ignoring advice from locals on routes in desolate areas in impending bad weather than it is not mean it is a legitimate attention getting learning device AND SHOULD BE SAID.

Mrs Kim is not reading this and if nice gets you dead it isn't really nice.

Would you and the others complaining actually do the opposite just because the statement is harsh? If so please do not put yourself in any position that others need to depend on you because I would rather be with an abrasive person who keeps me alive than a nice person who gets me dead.

This gets into the generations who think that laws and signs will always keep them safe and they bear little responsibility for their own safety. A MN legislature fought for and won a very strict crosswalk bill. My problem with the bill was that it gave people a false sense of security. Just because someone is supposed to stop for you doesn't mean they will. Before the year was out that legislator stepped out in front of a moving car in a crosswalk behind the state Capital building (assuming it would stop because of the law) and was hit and killed. Was the driver responsible? Yes. Was the legislator a dead idiot who passed heroic but shortsighted legislation? Yes.

If Mr Kim with his survivalist training and supplies had taken the scenic route against advice and did not have his children with them I would not be writing this. I am sure his kids were properly seatbelted in the whole trip because it was the law. Laws help but do not always keep our kids safe from our everyday decisions.

[uppityperson]

84. "ignored locals"

He "ignored locals"? What are you talking about?

[Shakespeare]

58. I'm so glad you're here to sit up on your high horse and tell us all this.

No, really, I am. Oh, and I'm also intimately familiar with the mountains from the Pacific northwest on down southward to the Mexico border.

What happened was an unfortunate accident, compounded by bad maps and a vandalized lock (two vital facts you're deliberately overlooking). It had nothing to do with ignorance or stupidity.

But do go on; your smugness is almost entertaining.

[Erika]

64. My lesson would be to teach about the Rockies

Don't go on unknown roads. That simple. And don't try to travel at night on those roads. Also make sure someone knows when you leave and when you intend to arrive. This isn't smugness. It's survival. A big difference.

[uppityperson]

85. "Rockies"

:rofl:

[Shakespeare]

59. dupe

.

[dogday]

93. As with some travelers, they missed their junction

and ended up in a mess... Now I know many people traveling will sometimes miss the turn-off and keep going till they realize something isn't right... Unfortunately for Kim, when he kept going, he drove into a heap of trouble. I believe Kim stayed 9 days in the car, and the police say that for someone who had no wilderness training, he did very well. In fact it was his footprints that they saw, that lead them to the family... Don't sell him short, he saved his family....

He is dead, the family is without their Father and Husband... Calling him an idiot does nothing but make you look bad...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

107. You need help.

Hope ya get it.

[Raine]

68. He was a hero

who sacrificed himself to save his family, we need more people like that in this World...so sad. :cry:

[JanMichael]

69. one of the greatest tragedies of this story is that the internet survival experts

weren't able to get off work, or out of holiday family obligations, and go to Oregon to tell the search and rescue guys what they were doing wrong; personally find the Kims, and then lecture them to the point where they would never make a mistake again.

[Kingshakabobo]

70. Yes. Where were all the asshole know-it-alls, in this thread.....

...and other DU threads, when the search was on-going?

[here_is_to_hope]

77. Most of the "assholes"

are here saying he shouldnt have done what he did...
Thus, no S & R and no need to lecture anyone.
Well, maybe some.

[gollygee]

71. Poor guy

At least his kids will grow up knowing their dad did everything he could to help them.

:(

[RamboLiberal]

74. Oregonian Report - Those of you posting maps

are you going by new coordinates being reported or the incorrect ones posted in earlier stories?

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/oregonian/index.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_oregonian_news/archives/2006_12.html

Officials revise location where Kim family car was found
James Kim walked more than 16 miles — six miles farther than originally thought — in his journey to find help for his stranded family, officials said today.

Brian Anderson, Josephine County undersheriff, said that a field report that had incorrect coordinates for the location of the family car led officials to calculate initially that Kim had walked about 10 miles before dying of hypothermia.

Phil Turnbull, a Josephine County search-and-rescue team member, discovered the error when he double-checked Friday, Anderson said.

Anderson said the wrong coordinates did not affect the search.

The new coordinates put the Kims’ car nearly 6.4 miles farther down the U.S. Bureau of Land Management road. That means James Kim walked 10 to 11 miles up the BLM road before he dropped into the Big Windy Creek drainage and walked five more miles.

His body was found four miles, in a straight line, from the family car.

[Bzzzz]

80. This guy was pure class...

Loved him on TechTv...
never be without a GPS, people...:cry:

[piedmont]

87. GPS doesn't work everywhere nt

[uppityperson]

89. GPS tells you where you are.

May not work everywhere and unless you have a detailed enough ACCURATE map, that is all it will do. RIP Jim.

[Duer 157099]

90. I cannot reconcile these numbers

The satellite images on maps.google.com show that the NF-23 is 4 miles directly south of the Rogue River in this area. The other roads are all closer to the river (the ones they mistakenly took). Early reports said he "walked south, then west, then dropped east into the Big Windy Creek canyon" -- that makes it fairly clear where the car was.

http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=42.6490+N,+123.7444+W+&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=42.648985,-123.744421&spn=0.022348,0.054245&t=h&om=1&iwloc=addr

And granted he probably walked many many miles because of the terrain, but I cannot believe that the car was 4 miles (as the crow flies) from Big Windy Creek, if James was approximately 1 mile from the River. Unless he actually crossed several canyons, which is not what they have reported.

I wonder why this is not straightforward. There should not be grey areas in such a story.

(edit to add: the only explanation I can come up with is that the google maps site has it's scale marked incorrectly, which I suppose is possible but for a mapping service, an inexcusable error)

[CueST]

83. What I somehow missed,

amidst all the mainstream coverage, was that he was a CNET Senior Editor. For a nerd, I'm surprised I somehow missed this, but what a loss, and what a man...

http://news.com.com/2009-12-6141617.html?tag=cnetfd.ld1

On Edit: Link

[qanda]

94. My only question is this

If this is a road known to trip people up then why isn't that the first place that they began searching for them? This question has been bugging me all week.

[uppityperson]

97. It was 11 yrs ago. Don't know why except there were lots of places to search.

Bet it gets checked more now, and the gate gets checked more often also.

[Duer 157099]

103. Actually I believe that the pilot who found them

looked there for exactly this reason. Why the "official" search party did not is a good question.

[mustang]

104. Lots of things have been bugging me too

There was a history of people getting lost on that road. I guess that logging road is wide and looks more official than the CW23 road that goes to Gold Beach. At that fork, many people turned down the wrong road. It was a very common mistake, so why wasn't that checked earlier? And wouldn't officials noctice that the gate was opened right away? Plus, they had a destination and hotel room reserved, called to say they would be late, and never showed. Wouldn't that narrow down the search right away?

I'm posting a very detailed article from the San Francisco Chronicle that explains a lot. There was a lot of miscommunication at the beginning about if the road was checked or not. It also sounds like the family did much of the groundwork for everything, trying to track down the family. I admire that family for initiating the search and doing so much.

I think this tragedy could have happened to anyone. ANYONE. Everyone has gotten lost before. And I really believe that James Kim saved his family with his footprints in the snow, parking the car at the fork, trying to use the cell phone, getting the ping to narrow the search. They waited seven days. There are many other stories of people hiking out of areas (i.e. the Stolpa family, another bay area story)where they were able to survive. Having young children, I think most people would make the same exact decision.

God Bless James Kim.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/12/10/MNGVOMT3NJ1.DTL