Not Sure Why There's All The Kaine Bashing Going On. It's A Bit Confusing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

His delivery may not be the best there is, but his message was Spot Fucking On and he covered an incredible amount of logical middle america issues in a short time and in a simplistic way.

I would've liked a better delivery, but poor fucking me wah wah. I don't expect everything to be perfect all the time. Grading the message and overall response it was an incredible one and a great start for the 06 season.

I'm a bit surprised to see that many bashing him, and am starting to think dem bashing is becoming second nature to some on here in the absence of logic or rationality. Just my take on it.

[Cocoa]

1. it's automatic

it doesn't have anything to do with what Kaine said.

[Coexist]

2. I think maybe I built him up too much in my mind

and when he was so nervous and had that odd half-smile in the beginning - it was VERY disconcerting.

Not bashing his politics - don't know much about him to be honest.

He should have been coached better.

The eyebrow was an odd touch.

[hatrack]

3. I have to agree - he wasn't Eugene Debs . . . .

But it was substantially better than I thought he was going to be.

OK, sue me, I don't give a damn! :toast:

[Erika]

4. He did a fine job It came from the heart with logic applied

I thank him.

[napi21]

5. I didn't hear him, but I read some posts that said he did well.

I also caught a short bit on cnn of David Gergen saying he thought Kaine did a good job for the Dems. Gergen is really an OK guy. I don't always agree with him, but he's a pretty middle of the road anylist.

[mdmc]

6. my take

If you have been blaming Nader this whole time, this speech would make you mad. The SOTU response was kinda "two parties are the same, Bush is not effective." The argument that their is no difference between the two parties just got stronger. Hopefully it will mean less neo cons. It will not mean more progressives in power.

[leftstreet]

8. That was my take also.

It seemed like an anti-any-administration speech.

[Skip Intro]

7. I think the cw is that the Dems missed a chance to express outrage at *'s

unAmerican agenda

call him on his bs

and express OUTRAGE at what he and his gang have done, are doing, and plan to do to this naion and all of who are a part of it

But that's not Kaine's fault, I guess.

I involuntarily tuned him out after a few minutes

I don't know what happened, I just couldn't listen

I would have liked to have seen a fiery respons from one of our heavyweights.

[Singular73]

9. His message was SPOT ON?

What the fuck was his message?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Maybe You Should Watch It.

And if you tell me you did watch it, maybe this time you should do it with the volume on. :hi:

[mmonk]

10. Bashing or responding to a question?

While some may have a done bash thread, some were responding with their analysis on other threads.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Bashing.

People can react however they want, it's all good. I was just a bit surpised when I got done watching and came here for reaction and saw the amount of replies putting him down. I thought I'd see far more support is all. :)

[mmonk]

17. I thought the response was lacking

for a clueless public, but I won't bash him. I don't people will even remember what he said though (not even the slogan).

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. Because It Seemed Like His Message Was Such That All The Types

you mentioned would've approved for the most part.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. Some DUers have no interest in winning elections. Some DUers

would rather run around stomping their feet and wringing there hands instead of giving a coherent alternative. Some Duers don't understand the game of politics and think you can automatically jump from someone like Bush to someone like Kucinich

[Mountainman]

23. I was just thinking about that idea a few minutes ago.

My guess is the reason we keep losing is that we have nothing alternative to offer voters. I would think the thing we need to fight the ultra right is the ultra left.

Why do we keep hoping that if we don't go too left maybe voters will pick our candidate? One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You mark my words, if we don't offer a radical approach to the repuke congress we will lose again in 2006/ Copy this and save it!

[kevinbgoode]

25. As a gay American, I don't feel like being made the human sacrifice

in order for the Democratic Party to win elections. Governor Kaine presides over a state with the most repressive anti-gay laws in the nation, and more of them churning in the Assembly as he gives his speech. I don't care if the Governor is a Republican or a Democrat, I don't believe that good management and good service to the people should automatically exclude some citizens - and I really am not interested in someone else's religious beliefs, particularly when they are used to demonize what are supposed to be my constitutional rights.

[Joe the Revelator]

27. Since when did VA become the most repressive anti-gay state?

And Kaine is firmly against a federal admendment to ban gay marriage.

[kevinbgoode]

31. He's sending the Virginia Marriage "Protection" Amendment

to the voters, he was Lt. Governor when the state passed a repressive law a year ago which prevents even contractual agreements between same-sex couples and the state assembly alternately pushes an adoption limitation law excluding gay citizens and is trying to eliminate gay-straight alliance clubs in the public high schools. There have been stories of gay residents who have sold their homes and left the state because of the repressive legislation, and a campaign was launched last year by one Virginia group to encourage gays not to visit the state (not a hard thing to do if you have a partner, since the state won't let a partner even ride in a damned ambulance to a hospital in an emergency.)

[mzmolly]

15. I love this post!

I would've liked a better delivery, but poor fucking me wah wah.

:rofl: I too would have liked a better delivery, but the majority of ME enjoys the fact that we surprised em!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Oh Shit, I Forgot I typed that LOL

Hi mzmolly :hi:

[mzmolly]

18. Hey there OMC!

:hi:

[KyuzoGator]

20. I was at the gym and could only read the closed-captioning...

...and I thought the speech was outstanding.

It's funny, it's like the 1960 debates...those who watched it on TV thought Kennedy won, those who listened on the radio favored Nixon.

[Kurovski]

21. It comes off as phony. If he focused on communicating rather than

performing, it might have worked out better.

I partly blame "political Consultants" who insist on the kind of empty hand gestures and expressions that helped to sink Kaine's delivery.

He wasn't prepared, he's not ready for that yet, and he may not even have the talent for it. It's a difficult thing to do.

He couldn't get a very important (if tepid) response across. That's not "Dem bashing", that's a fact.

You may forgive him that, but many others won't hear the message, and will tune out if not otherwise compelled. Geez, a vast majority doesn't bother with the Pretzeldent's speech, let alone the Dem response.

The speech itself could have used some controversy in it to grab snoozing American's by the nuts/ovaries.

[T Town Jake]

22. It's called "making the perfect the enemy of the good"....

...and is one of the prime reasons we are in the minority in all three branches of government. Period.

[Kurovski]

24. Bull tweeters! Not everyone is suited to go before a camera.

I could just as easily say we're the minority because we can't figure out how to use the media to our advantage.

In fact, I could say the inability to realize that Kaine is not good at communicating a message is a self-destructive form of negligence.

He even launched at least one visible loogie during his speech. He simply isn't ready to be on the national stage yet.

Kaine must have our message reach beyond a forgiving, sweet-hearted choir.

[LincolnMcGrath]

26. How does "I don't expect everything to be perfect all the time."

Square up with "I'm a bit surprised to see that many bashing him,"

:shrug: Sounds like that is exactly what you want.

Your version of Perfect = No Dissension No Discussion

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. LMAO! Wow Was That Twisting To The Extreme!

:rofl: That was too silly.

I said I was surprised. I didn't say how dare you or don't say it or any other declarative. I said I was surprised, which I was. *Gasp*, how DARE I be surprised and voice my dissention for sake of discussion so that someone who is obviously against dissension and discussion can hypocritically bash me for it. How DARE I! LOL :rofl:

:hi:

[nemo137]

28. I didn't get to hear the speech.

Part of it was that I was in a loud room with some friends who are not as politically obsessed as I am (My buddy: "Who's Alito?"). Part of it was that he looked like a telemarketer. It didn't seem sincere enough to grab the half of us who wanted to listen and make us pay attention.

[iamthebandfanman]

29. not bad i thought

i didnt think he did that badly.
yes, he couldve had a slightly better presence ...but
frankly hes pretty much a moderate...
and i think people will/would actually be inclined to listen to him.
i know my moderate democratic grandmother thought he did really well by not making attacks and stating facts.

so all in all
i think he did a pretty good job.
hes a politician, not a news anchor or actor, so cut him a lil slack ;)

[iamthebandfanman]

30. he did alright i think

i didnt think he did that badly.
yes, he couldve had a slightly better presence ...but
frankly hes pretty much a moderate...
and i think people will/would actually be inclined to listen to him.
i know my moderate democratic grandmother thought he did really well by not making attacks and stating facts.

so all in all
i think he did a pretty good job.
hes a politician, not a news anchor or actor, so cut him a lil slack ;)

[iamthebandfanman]

32. sorry!

sorry!