How do you feel about Zoos and Aquariums?

[theophilus]

Poll question: How do you feel about Zoos and Aquariums?

Weigh in on the topic of animals in captivity for entertainment or education....

[no_hypocrisy]

1. I've looked at zoos very differently since the show "Land of the

Giants" in the 60s. People were locked up like they were zoo animals. Whole new perspective.

[Sequoia]

6. And remember the human zoo in Planet of the Apes

Acutally, a holding pen. "Can I have one for a pet, daddy?"

[Jed Dilligan]

2. "Entertainment or education"

you leave out "preserving biodiversity." A lot of species are kept alive only in captivity.

[theophilus]

4. Good point, excellent point in fact. Thanks for bringing it up.

This is my first poll and I'll do better next time. :hi:

[RiverStone]

45. Don't forget about grey hound/horse racing!

Preserving "biodiversity" or providing an education in a natural (free to roam) habitat is one thing.

Making Orca's do stupid animal tricks in a tiny aquarium is on par with the horrible exploitation of animals in the horse and grey hound racing industries. Its all about profit and and animals providing entertainment. Never will I take my kids to the circus for that reason; though I love to take them to wildlife preserves where animals are simply chilling in a natural setting.

[Jed Dilligan]

46. That wasn't the question

I don't consider theme parks that do Orca shows to be legitimate aquariums.

[RiverStone]

47. The challenge is one may profit from the other.

I do appreciate your distinction between legit aquariums and theme parks.

However, many theme parks have aquariums as well. In that case, if the aquarium benefits from the Orca's doing tricks next door, its wrong. All under one umbrella.

[Jed Dilligan]

49. If the primary function of the institution

is not research and preservation, the place where fish are displayed does not qualify as an aquarium any more than the koi pond in a Japanese restaurant does.

[RiverStone]

50. We agree there. If promoting preservation...

...and doing research enhancing biodiversity is the sole purpose of an institution; I could fully support a place like that.

That being said, can these "institutions" advocate and work towards eliminating the animal shows at places like Sea World?

[Jed Dilligan]

54. There is, unfortunately, too much synergy between the two

On a trip to San Diego, a family with children is likely to visit both the excellent Zoo and the deplorable Sea World. For all their cruelty the show places do raise public awareness of animal issues and recruit future generations of environmentalists. So I doubt that legitimate animal science institutions will ever be leaders in any campaign against them.

[mike_c]

3. bear in mind that most zoos are at the forefront of animal conservation...

...efforts, and are probably responsible for the current existance of a number of species that would likely have disappeared if not for the genetic stocks maintained in zoological collections. The primary purpose of most zoos is not entertaining the public-- that's just what they do to pay the bills.

[RiverStone]

51. Maybe that holds some truth in the United States or...

...other developed nations which have rules and standards around animal care.

Sadly, most zoo's in many other parts of the world are throw backs to what U.S. zoo's were like 50 years ago. Big animals living their entire life in a small cage. Not to mention the illegal animal trade which supports these unregulated zoo's.

It must be looked at as a global question; U.S. zoo's are not representative of your average zoo worldwide.

[leesa]

59. That's the story they tell you for donations anyway...my brother worked for years

at zoos for both aquatic and mammal displays (he has a fish science degree). Their concern is definitely NOT animal welfare. It is the bottom line. if they have animal deaths or disease break-outs they cover it up. They do not listen to people trained in animal husbandry but listen to those who can offer the bottom dollar in operating costs. He has seen a dozen sharks die for no reason of a disease preventable by containment. Another dolphin died jumping out of the tank and he suffocated before anyone found him. He has seen a rare form of hepatitis C in monkeys threaten to escape to the human population of the city, the zookeepers were armed with shotguns in case they got out-of-control...the public never knew. He knew a zoo volunteer who had her arm nearly ripped off by an orangutan, she led the visitors out safely, when she asked for hospital costs they threw her out and told her to lawyer up.


These are not decent organizations and the animals are not being 'saved', they are being 'exploited'. It makes you feel better to think they are being saved.

[Warpy]

5. Zoos have been fine since they dumped the cages

and brought in zoologist and large animal specialists. The local zoo has a fantastic large cat breeding program. They've done well with cheetahs, a species notoriously hard to breed in captivity. The cats have large runs with foliage as close to natural foliage as you can achieve in the desert. Viewing is from above, though the leaves, and the cats can't be taunted by morons. The way things are going in Africa, zoos may be the places that preserve these species.

Some of the other animals, notably rhinos and hippos, don't have such fancy digs, so I wish the zoo would send them someplace that's built a better for them. There was some construction going on, though, perhaps that's what they were working on.

If any of you remember a Super Bowl commercial some years back featuring frolicking polar bears in water tossing around a huge styrofoam block, that was shot at this zoo. They've got nice digs, too.

[AZBlue]

28. Yes, but there needs to be a push to update older zoos.

The local zoo here builds new exhibits that are large and keep the animals' natual needs in mind - but their older exhibits are still small cages.

[RiverStone]

53. What about zoo's in other parts of the world...

...where no anti-cruelty or health codes exist?

Remember, this only applies to wealthy nations. There are many zoo's in developing countries where animals are treated with far less compassion and remind us of what US zoo's were like in the 1930's.

[Warpy]

56. I can't speak for other parts of the world

I can only speak for my part.

[Rosemary2205]

7. Only good for rehab, rescue or keeping a species from extinction.

Zoos/aquariums that function only as rehab/rescue and animal conservation facilities are fine with me when the animals are placed in an environment as close to the wild as possible.

[shance]

9. I like that perspective.

Individuals also need to keep in mind that we need the natural habitat as much as they do.

[jilln]

18. Are there many like that?

I know of only one. I agree, these are good functions. But the vast majority of zoos and aquariums are not limited to these.

[Clark2008]

35. For most of them, this is their primary function.

Charging admission to the populace is a way to raise money for those very rehab/rescue programs.

[Lowell]

8. Great places

to hunt and fish if you're pressed for time.

[IntravenousDemilo]

16. Oh, Jesus, just don't tell Cheney! n/m

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. I like them.

And very much like how they're getting better over the years.

[TahitiNut]

11. Both do far more good than harm overall. The Monterey Bay Aquarium is awesome.

It was one of my favorite places to visit living in the Bay Area. Scuba diving in the area was heaven for me. Without question, seeing and mingling with the critters while diving was superior to seeing them in the aquarium ... but too many people just can't scuba dive.

[Der Blaue Engel]

12. I have very mixed feelings about zoos

(Not so much aquariums, unless we're talking parks with dolphins and whales, as I don't get the impression the fish notice.)

I love to go to the zoo, but once I'm there, I inevitably begin to feel guilty, especially at the primate exhibit. By the time I hit the gorilla habitat, I'm usually in tears. I try to be as unobtrusive as possible when I observe them (and I'll really snap if I see anyone taunting them). It just feels wrong.

I also have two caged birds at home, which gives me similar mixed feelings. I didn't purchase them, rather rescued them from owners who grew tired of them, but I feel bad that I can't let them out more. (See cats, below.)

Overall, it feels wrong to me to cage anything. But what do you do with the ones already in captivity? We can't exactly release them into the wild; they'd most likely die. Should we deny them the right to breed to prevent further generations in captivity? That seems cruel, too. I don't know what the answer is.

[IntravenousDemilo]

20. I had a wonderfully connective moment with some orangutans at the Toronto Zoo.

I was part of a quartet that went Christmas carolling at the zoo, which, it being December, didn't have a lot of visitors (I believe there were maybe three altogether that evening). We went from pavilion to pavilion until we got to where the primates were. As we sang "Silent Night", four or five orangutans came to the edge of their enclosure and listened with rapt attention, swaying to the music with what looked like blissful expressions on their faces. It was so beautiful that we just stayed put for the rest of the gig and sang for only them. They seemed to like the slower carols better, not things like "Ding Dong Merrily on High", which they stuck their tongues out at.

As for your birds, I've never believed in cages, though I'm assuming that they're not indigenous to your area and they'd probably die if you freed them. But cats or no cats, I don't think I'd let them fly throughout the house because they tend to crap wherever and whenever they choose.

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. That is the coolest story ever

Thanks for sharing.

[Der Blaue Engel]

26. The birds are cockatiels

While there is a famous flock of parrots (two, in fact) in San Francisco, I don't think my 'tiels would make it on their own.

They used to have frequent cageless jaunts around the house before the Little Predator (below, right) arrived. The older cat is just baffled by the birds, and used to stare in bemusement while one of them did a cockatiel mating dance on the carpet in front of her, but the younger one was off like a shot the one time one of the 'tiels flew out of the cage when he was in the room.

What a wonderful story about the orangutans! :) (And now I have "Ding, Dong, Merrily on High" stuck in my head. Thanks for that. :P ) My cats like to be sung to as well (as do the birds, of course, who have their own rendition of "La Marseillaise").

[Union Thug]

13. I like what they are becoming... Esp. looking at the Northwest Trek model..

where observers are brought into animal habitat.

What is sad though, is that (as many have already pointed out), zoos may be the last refuge for animal species that have been wiped out by human activity.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Ah, Northwest Trek. Haven't been there in 25 years.

I understand that Disney World has done something similar.

[Union Thug]

15. I had not visited in twenty years, and then we took the kids last summer...

And you would be AMAZED at what they've done. Fantastic.

[theophilus]

39. I recently went to the Memphis Zoo and was VERY impressed by

the vitality of the animals. They looked "happy" and very healthy. The relatively new arts of environmental enrichment and operant conditioning are paying off, imo. I see humans, especially in our culture, as becoming totally separated from nature. If there are not enjoyable ways to see other species and learn about the larger context I believe we are all doomed to destruction.

[Union Thug]

44. You are right - we don't integrate, we don't live 'harmoniously'...

we (humans, that is) just pave over the land and expect everything else to just get the hell out of the way. Then, we have the audacity to kill the animals that lived on the land that was stripped away from them should they dare cross some imaginary property line. Many americans seem to believe that they are separate from the natural world - that it doesn't apply to them. I do not want my children growing up that way.

I'm not necessarily a luddite, but something needs to change. We need to stop running from the natural world,and instead, find ways to reintegrate.

[jilln]

17. I think the "educational" value is obsolete now

Like dissecting frogs... more and better information through videos, Internet etc. now. If I want to see animals, I'll go to a sanctuary.

And many zoos refuse to tell us how many animals they sell to canned hunts, because when they breed and get baby animals, they have to get rid of the "surplus" animals.

Most zoos are just businesses like any other.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. I make a fair part of my living

because of them.

http://www.wildcotton.com/cgi-local/zooentry.cgi

[theophilus]

38. That's neat! Do you make the shirts, etc? n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. Yes

All the designs are ours. We do screen printing and embroidery and we work with artists from all over the country.

[zanne]

21. I know I'll offend some people here, but...

I hate to see birds in cages. They always look so sad to me.

[Nye Bevan]

22. No predators; free food; vets on call

What's not to like, from the animals' point of view?

And it's not like they are cooped up in cages anymore.

[SmokingJacket]

24. There's nothing sadder than a shitty zoo.

I think zoos should probably only have animals that are suited to the particular climate. No elephants in Syracuse, NY, for example -- I've seen signs of insanity in zoo elephants. They should also probably be much, much larger to allow animals room to roam at least a little.

Aquariums should probably limit themselves to smaller creatures. Dolphins are too intelligent to be confined to small aquaria.

[Dorian Gray]

25. I love the Bronx Zoo

and the Coney Island Aquarium. :) They are both really cool places.

Sadly, I went to a "zoo" in Bangkok. A tiger was kept in a very small cage, big enough for it to pace back and forth about ten yards. It was a horrible place, and I have a real problem with that type of zoo. Most animal parks that I've been to have tried to simulate the animal's natural habitat as much as possible. They can be quite educational, as well.

I love Sea World in San Diego. One of my favorite aquatic centers.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. I Love Good Zoos An Aquariums. The Bronx Zoo And Turtleback Zoo Are Close To Me Too.

We always go to a zoo at least a few times each summer.

[Lilith Velkor]

29. I hate zoos but don't think they should be abolished.

[AZBlue]

30. If there's any show where an animal has to do tricks or perform in any way, I'm against it.

Period.

Entertainment, no. Education and preservation, yes.

[RiverStone]

43. AGREE. Stupid animal tricks for entertainment and $$$ IS CRUEL.

I see that as VERY different then natural habitat zoo's where animals are free to roam and simply be.

[canadianbeaver]

31. I feel if you want to see a dolphin....go where they are.....

If you want to see any living thing...travel to where they are native and live freely....bringing them to zoo's and aquariums for education purposes and rehabilitation is not something I agree with... now reserves and animal hospitals who release after care are different in my eyes...

[warrens]

32. The New Orleans Zoo is the model

No cages, environments adapted to fit the animals (a really cool racetrack for the cheetahs, for instance), and visitors are kept at a reasonable distance. Busch Gardens Tampa is another great one.

[Catchawave]

33. This is worth a donation and the trip :)

http://www.elephants.com/sanct.htm

From the website:

The Elephant Sanctuary in Hohenwald, Tennessee, is the nation's largest natural-habitat refuge developed specifically to meet the needs of endangered elephants. It is a non-profit organization, licensed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, designed specifically for old, sick or needy elephants who have been retired from zoos and circuses. Utilizing more than 2700 acres, it provides three separate and protected, natural-habitat environments for Asian and African elephants. Our residents are not required to perform or entertain for the public; instead, they are encouraged to live like elephants.

Phil Snyder, regional director of the Humane Society of the United States has stated, "The Elephant Sanctuary represents the future of enlightened captive elephant management."

Development of The Elephant Sanctuary's facilities began in March 1995. Phase I includes a heated barn, a 200-acre steel pipe and cable elephant corral, and a 222-acre perimeter "people" fence.

PHASE II was completed December 1999, adding a 6-stall, 9000 square foot, state-of-the-art elephant barn to the facility.

Land expansion began Oct 2001 with the acquisition of a parcel of wilderness known locally as the Highland Lake Land - a 700-acre parcel of land with a 35-acre lake.

July 2003 marked the final land acquisition which constitutes our expansion. This 1840–acre parcel of wilderness was owned by International Paper company prior to becoming Elephant Country.

The African Elephant Habitat was completed January 2004. This 300-acre facility with its award-winning elephant house is a showcase for innovative solar use.

Renovation of the Phase I barn was completed Nov 2004, creating a Quarantine Facility for sick elephants.

In September 2005 we completed construction of our new Asian elephant house. (See slide show detailing construction).

Experience our 10-year timeline. (By clicking on any of the events or photos, you will be taken to a page which describes that particular entry in more detail)

Funding for all of these projects came from public contributions, membership support and in-kind donations.

As a true sanctuary, The Elephant Sanctuary is not intended to provide entertainment. Patron-level donors are invited to tour the facility through our VIP Pledge Program, but the Sanctuary is closed to the general public. Education, however, represents a key component of the Sanctuary's ongoing mission. Since its inception, the Sanctuary's outreach program has taught thousands of school children around the globe a respect for wildlife while learning about the endangered Asian elephant.

One of the most exciting in-kind donations we have received is distance-learning teleconferencing equipment from PictureTel Corporation and membership in Project DIANE (Diversified Information and Assistance Network). This is a collaborative effort to promote educational, economic, and community development. Through interactive telephone, video, and multimedia computer technology, the Sanctuary teleconferences live with schools, libraries, community centers, etc., nationally and internationally.

Video teleconferencing is a fairly new technology. With the use of high-tech digital telephone lines and surveillance type cameras, this technology creates a connection that transmits live pictures and sound. The Sanctuary has an extensive camera system; in the offices, barns, and outside in the elephants' habitat. The cameras are rotated by remote control, displaying the elephants, their entire habitat and their barn facilities.

The Discovery Channel, PBS, 20/20, CNN, and many others have made people aware that elephants are majestic creatures who are highly intelligent, complex, social, and sensitive individuals. In the wild, elephants are migratory, walking 30 to 50 miles each day, and form intricate family structures. They grieve for their dead in a more-than-instinctive way. They show humor and express compassion for one another with intense interactions. The reality of their lives in captivity is that many are in chains up to 18 hours a day. They are enclosed in steel pens -- often alone -- broken and controlled by fear and intimidation.

[michreject]

34. I don't go to zoo's......nt

[porphyrian]

36. They may be the only way to preserve certain species in coming decades.

Birds and fish especially.

[The2ndWheel]

37. Ask the animals and fish instead

I think they could hold their own in the world if they were allowed to. But human civilization has given us the need to "save" them from extinction. Because we care. Really, we do. We want the world under our thumb, but just so that we don't seem completely insane, we want to save the last of what we eradicate. We are their only hope.

[Behind the Aegis]

40. I love them!

Of course, I am fortunate enough to be 12 blocks from the Aquarium of the Americas, which is AWESOME! The Audubon Zoo is nothing short of spectacular!

[RiverStone]

42. BIG IF: Are the zoo's humane and mimic the animals natural...

...habitat (room to roam) and let them just be? If yes, I can see they have benefit. That could educate humans about the beauty and wonders of our natural world. In the case of rare or endangered species, maybe that would help preserve them.

However,

Places like Sea World or circus's that keep animals captive and make them do stupid animal tricks strictly for human entertainment is TOTAL BULLSHIT and I'm VERY AGAINST that. I have 2 kids and can't imagine ever talking them to a place like that which is into exploiting animals for $$$$. :mad:

[MrSlayer]

48. Zoos and aquariums are ok but I'm anti-circus.

I think circuses treat animals very poorly and simply exploit them.

[cynatnite]

57. We quit going to circuses when I was a kid...

My mom is very RW, but she swore them off after seeing a horse getting severly whipped at a circus. That and hearing about the awful treatment is why we won't go.

[transeo]

52. Catch 22

If we lock them up, it's very cruel. For so many of the species if we don't have them in a zoo they'll die because we keep killing them intentionally or through environmental destruction. I think a zoo is the lesser of the evils - at least they have food and a bit of protection.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

55. There's a wonderful passage in Gerald Durrel somewhere with a woman who thinks zoos are cruel

He takes her round some newly-caught chimpanzees, showing her the parasites they had in the wild, removing them and explaining the effects they'd have if untreated, until she flees.

There are certainly a great many zoos - especially in the third world, I suspect - that keep animals in abominable conditions, but if you don't there's nothing wrong with them - it's perfectly possible to keep animals in an acceptable standard of living in captivity, and many zoos, including almost all those in the UK, at any rate, do.

Footage or photos of zoos of the distant past is usually slightly disturbing, though - the idea of keeping up animals living standards in captivity postdates the practice of keeping animals in captivity by thousands of years, and is still developing.

[Cleita]

58. Mixed feelings really,

I inherited three aquariums once and had to learn from the bottom up how to deal with them. I noticed that young children can be really calmed by them, but the dirty secret is that the denizens of the aquarium are very disposable.

It turns out that it's somewhat the same thing with zoos. The animals are well cared for when they are important and then they become disposable when there are too many of them same of the same species or they are too old or too cranky.

I find my bird feeder is a better solution to wanting to watch wild life. The birds are wild, free to feed at my buffet and able to leave when it suits them. Oh, yes, I do protect my feeders from predators the best I can.

[Quixote1818]

60. After watching a Mountain Lion pace back and forth for hours

I began to see that Zoo's are just like Jail to many animals which need to roam for miles. I would prefer Natural Preserves for some of these types of animals. It's easy to tell they are being tortured being closed in.

[Dastard Stepchild]

61. I don't really like them...

Though I believe zoologists can do some good work... particularly with endangered species. I would like to see this conservation work occur solely in the field, but I have to imagine that funding may not always allow for this.

I do love animals, and as a child, I loved viewing them in the zoo. I think they are quite amazing. However, as I grew older, and began to imagine a life lived behind an enclosure, I began to dislike them as venues for entertainment.

I am not willing to write 100% of them off completely if they are engaged in compassionate, thoughtful, appropriate preservation efforts. However, I find it much more problematic when they are used as a source of entertainment. I have had people mention that they help people to be more connected with the global experience of animals, but I don't know that this is true. I don't really see a tremendous outpouring of financial or written/verbal advocacy support for animals following a trip to the zoo.

[Codeblue]

62. I'm always torn on this issue

Like with training any animal. I feel that it's necessary for the convenience of humans, but then, why are we so much better than animals that we can inconvenience them and make them do what we want just because it's convenient to us?

Zoos seem necessary at times to keep endangered animals safe from pyschopathic animal killers, but at the same time I always feel bad for them. Stuck in enclosures being stared at by a bunch of idiot humans.