Get A Grip. The Democratic Party Is Just Fine.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

blah blah wah wah I'm leaving the party wah wah democrats suck blah blah.

Get a grip. Our party is fine. Some first need to get a clue as to what defines the democratic party. We do, Period. We are the democratic party. A handful of leaders do not all of a sudden redefine what it means to be a democrat. That's the first damn thing some of you all need to learn. If some of those leaders are failing us, or not doing as much as we want, than some could say those leaders are not true democrats, or not democrats at heart at all. But their views or how true a democrat they are doesn't in any fuckin way change how true a democrat you are.

99% of all true democrats I know are filled with the values and integrity I honor, and are my type of people. A few that are too extreme conservative don't change what it means to be a democrat or to belong to the democratic party. You don't need to fucking leave the party, as long as you still hold the values of what makes us democrats you're still a damn democrat. So stay. Instead, work towards responsibly filling seats with those you consider to more hold your true democratic ideals. Some of their intent and values may not be up to our standard, but our standard is STILL the democratic one. Got It? :)

I just wanted to vent that because I think many have their hearts in the right place but just aren't quite getting it.

[HillDem]

1. Good to see someone else

isn't drinking the green kool-aid.

[autorank]

20. No cool aid, "jolt cola." 14 Yeas on Cloture Sens voted Yea"on bankruptcy

Now that's a perfecta--back alley abortions AND bankruptcy laws that exclude many medical expenses (which we have because of no health insurance). The ugly facts on their votes.

Since the constituents of these folks are mostly at the lower end of the economic scale, they'll be hit by the brave new world of Alito, right upside the head.

These folks need to just admit that they are indifferent to the real needs of their constituents.

And, btw, how can they possibly justify a NO on Alito and a YEA on cloture? I'm working hard on that one but it's the worst kind of cynicism, IMHO.

[Warpy]

2. The party is great. The leadership has sucked for decades

and that's why we're out of power. Who wants to vote for a bunch of jellyfish who won't stand up for them or for anything else? Who wants to vote for a bunch of rich men who like their tax cuts and who won't address the beating the working class has been taking for decades? Who wants to vote for a party that USED to be good but now stands only for the business as usual that's killing them? Who wants to vote for a party that gives them no hope that anything will change in the future?

That's what the leadership has done to the party. That's why 51% of the electorate sighs and just goes straight home on election day, cooks supper, does the household chores, plays with the kids, and goes to bed instead of waiting in line at the polls.

There have been too many times lately when I've wondered why I bother. I know just how they feel.

[emulatorloo]

3. agreed it is fine -- but some Dems need a trip behind the woodshed EOM

Plenty stood up w Kerry and Kennedy, but not enough. Those who did will be getting a thank you note from me. Those who did not will get a spank you note from me.

[JuniperLea]

4. I honestly believe

This is a RW attempt to divide us. Don't let them win!


OTOH, I really believe it's time for another viable party... or three. But now is not the time. We need to stick together.

[iconoclastNYC]

5. Our party is captive to corporate interests

The DLC and thier ilk must must be drummed out of the party. We will never be a real party until this happens.

[DanCa]

6. I think the ones that are complaining the hardest...

Are the ones that didn't vote for John Kerry in the first place. They're all just trying to place the blame on the Democratic Party and not thier own damn vote in the presidential election.

[calimary]

8. Um... that's Democratic Party. Not "the Democrat Party." That second one

is what the Dark Siders like to call us, in another attempt to diminish us by not even acknowledging our proper name. I don't feel like joining them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. Damned Good Point. I Missed It Actually. I Hate When That Word Is Used.

[DanCa]

12. Do you know that my hands are fucked up .

And that sometimes I can't type right? God I am sick of grammar police.

[DURHAM D]

7. True - we are just fine. I am off to see Gov. Dean speak in

a few minutes right here in Durhan, NC, USA.

[xchrom]

10. need some kinda kool-aid

the democratic party has serious fuckin problems.

you can go all pollyanna on your own.

[meganmonkey]

11. LOL

Literally. Well, chuckling anyway :D

[joemurphy]

13. Amen, brother. All is not well. I think four of our

good Democratic Senators actually voted for Alito today.

What differentiates our party from the Republicans?

Is a Democrat that votes like Republicans are Democrat?

Is there any room in the Democratic party for party discipline?

Is it OK for a Democrat to take money raised from Democrats and vote Republican?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. Someone Obviously Missed The Point I see, But Whatever.

[xchrom]

22. what did i miss exactly?

you mind it more that people who have no power in the beltway express disappointment and rage -- and don't or maybe don't -- want to walk in lock step with every one else?

or that those who do have real power in the beltway -- could not muster the courage and the discipline to turn away perhaps the most egregious supreme court candidate they will ever face in their lifetimes?

the consequences of alito rising to the bench are nothing short of extraordinary.

[G_j]

17. FINE

Fascism
Is
Nothing
Extraordinary

(so relax)

[journalist3072]

15. Sorry, but I must disagree

The Democratic Party is not "fine."

There is a serious problem the party has with getting its message out.

Since January 2001, the Democrats have failed to learn a very valuable lesson that the Republicans learned during the Clinton years: how to get your message out at a time when your Party doesn't have the Rose Garden as its backdroup.

The Office of the Presidency automatically comes with a bully pullpit. People care what the POTUS has to say. Which means that the Party that doesn't have the Presidency, has to work harder.

Take the Contract With America, for example. Politically, it was a flawed document, and it was not good for our country. However, strategically, it was brilliant. Because it allowed the Rethugs to say to America: this is what we'll do if you give us back the Congress.

I realize that the Democratic Party is not monolithic. Never has been, and never will be. And I have no bones with that.

However, there are some basic principles that the Democrats need to be able to speak out with one voice on.

[Ready4Change]

24. Me too.

The Democratic party has been ineffectual in stopping the right wing Neocons from grabbing power. The Republicans (Who are being lead by the Neocons) now control all 3 branches of the government, and RW biased corporations control the vast majority of media outlets (and thus the 4th column.)

At this point the only thing Democrats can do is burn up the filibuster on some unimportant issue. They can either pick some symbolic moment as our Republics final grand gesture, or just let it die in misery.

At this point only the Republicans can stop the Neocons. (And it's an example of my current grim state of mind that I could say that with a straight face.)

[Hamlette]

25. how/why expect Dem leaders to speak with one voice when we can't?

And for all the contracts etc Clinton had a stratospheric approval rating.

It is NOT our ideas. It is gerrymandering. All politics is local. Fix that and you fix the system.

[autorank]

16. Explain this "hearts in the right place..." NOT!

Let's talk about those nice people with their "hearts in
the right place."

1)  They've insured that Roe is gone soon.
2)  They're in low income states, mostly, and have insured
that bankruptcy is a much more difficult option for their
constituents.

As a result, their constituents will seek back alley abortions
and be unable to use uncovered medical expenses/debts as a
reason for bankruptcy.  

NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL, "HEARTS IN THE *RIGHT*(WING)
PLACE."


------------------------------------------------------------------------
T Roosevelt Donating Member  	Mon Jan-30-06 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Here's a table
	

Senator		Alito	Bankruptcy	NAFTA	CAFTA

Baucus		x	x		x	
Bingaman	x	x		x	x
Byrd		x	x			x
Carper		x	x			x
Conrad		x	x			
Inouye		x	x		
T. Johnson	x	x		
Kohl		x	x		
Landrieu	x	x		
B. Lincoln	x	x			x	
Nelson (FL)	x	x			x
Nelson (NE)	x	x			x
Pryor		x	x		x	x		
Salazar		x	x		

VICHY DEMOCRATS...The list.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x276964

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. LMAO! That Line Was Meant Towards Those Saying They're Leaving The Party!

LOL  Fuck the ones that voted for alito   :)

[autorank]

39. Joke is on me but we agree! Like your choice of words!

...and, for that, you're on my buddy list (whatever that
means).

:rofl: jokes on me!

[never_get_over_it]

18. I have a grip

and you're absolutely correct

that's why the repunks

cotrol the White House
the House of Reprsentatives
the Senate
the Courts
the media
and most importantly the voting machines

we're just freaking fine....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. Yet Another One Who Obviously Didn't Read The Post All The Way Through.

I mean my god, is an opening title all you can handle contexually? Cause the rest would show that your statements above do not apply to this thread's context.

[never_get_over_it]

30. I did read it

and I don't agree with you - the Democratic Party is not fine even if you think it is. The purpose of a freaking political party is to lead, represent and to govern - therefore we are not fine.....or maybe all the individual Dems who share the same values can sit around a camp fire singing songs while the REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTINUES TO KICK OUR SORRY ASSES.

I'm sorry I should have spelled it out for you....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. You Are Still Talking About The Leadership. That Wasn't My Point.

That is why I say you didn't get the context.

[never_get_over_it]

47. I got the context - I don't agree with it

what part of that don't you understand

I do not agree with you that the party is fine even if you think it is.

The purpose of a political party is to lead, govern and represent. There are people who work within the party - you know kind of running it - getting candidates, raising money, running campaigns, getting elected, governing and representing etc etc etc - they are the party. The folks who don't participate in running the party but call themselves Dems may be fine in there Democratic values and beliefs but if those people who are in a position to represent us don't and in their stupidity have lost the White House, the House of Representatives, the Senate, the Courts, the media and the voting machines than the party is not fine.

This is why I have been advocating since (and actually before) the cloture vote that instead of leaving the Democratic Party and joining a new Party that we take back our Party and get rid of the DINOs and DLCers from positions of influence and power and that the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party start running the show. I also advocate by the way that Republicans take back their party from the repunks who are no more Republicans than Joe Lieberman is a Democrat.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meganmonkey]

23. You're so subtle

Welcome to DU

:eyes:

[Michigander4Dean]

21. K&R | nt

[geomon666]

28. Yeah...sure.

[NoodleyAppendage]

29. Ostrich...meet hole. Get a clue. Congress, Senate, WH, & now SC!!!!!

How much more do liberals/progressives have to lose before polly-annas, such as yourself, realize that the Democratic party is badly broken. Losing the Supreme Court will have repercussions for the next 50 YEARS.

Democrats who did not mount a filibuster fight against Asslito are TRAITORS to the ideals of personal privacy, reproductive rights, and co-equal branches of government.

JB

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Judgemental Name Calling Outside Factual Argument Is A Republican Tactic

I'd appreciate it if you avoid using it in any future responses.

Your post above is yet another response jumping to conclusions as if I was talking about the leadership, when it is fairly obvious I'm talking about us, not them. Missing the point is one thing. Labeling people polly-annas out of sheer ignorance is something altogether different. You want to debate the context of my thread for what it was? Fine. If you just want to go off judgementally without even trying to consider the context or theory, and start off with republican like labeling tactics, than please understand you will not have my ear. :hi:

[lastknowngood]

32. To quote that old fart Ronald Reagan "The Democratic Party has

left"

[marions ghost]

33. nah, it's not fine

at this point I'm not sure the Democratic party can ever again be the progressive party. The leadership is just so out-of-touch. Yes we can adhere to our progressive principles in spite of it, but our party SHOULD reflect us. And it doesn't. There gets to be a point where you just can't forgive EVERYTHING.

We have been used and abused by our own party, taken for granted. Do you think they are going to embrace us progressives anytime soon? Kinda doubt it.

[BeHereNow]

37. Let's consider that question!

You posed the question:
"Do you think they are going to embrace us progressives anytime soon?"

I suggest we ponder the question from the POV of the subject!
Such a dialogue in the mind of our so called "representatives"
might unfold along the lines of the following internal discusssion...

"Hmmm, should I represent the PEOPLE or accept the
gazillion dollars from the multi national corporations to do their bidding...
Hmmm...what to do, what to do? Ah hell, I think I'll take the gazillion dollars
and occasionally pretend to be in disagreement with their agenda..."

BHN

[BeHereNow]

35. Can I have some?

Of what ever it is you are smoking?
I want to obtain your state of mind!
BHN

[mmonk]

36. I disagree.

It's a donkey with two heads right now. The party will have to decide what direction it wants to go in.

[Mr_King]

38. What I believe a Democrat truly is...

a person who believes in and tries to...

-Improve Education
-Protect Social Security
-Improve Health Care
-Protect Civil Rights
-Lifts people in poverty into the middle class

I don't care if the Democrat that does these things is a Conservative Democrat, Moderate Democrat, or Liberal Democrat they should have a place and a voice in the party.

REMEMBER we are the party of diversity and that means they're will be some Democrats in parts of the country that you won't agree with on things like abortion, gay marriage, conservative judges, God in schools, etc. Those are the issues that Republicans need in order to win, not Democrats.

[autorank]

40. Enabling Alito + Bankruptcy = No civil rights, enduring poverty,

protection of health care tyranny by Big Pharma, etc.

To enable Alito by voting Yes on cloture ensured his approval.

Combine this with the bankruptcy Yes vote, which 14 of these so called Democrats did, and you have a betrayal of the party.

The tent is big and it should be. The Alito enabling and bankruptcy support is a disgrace.

Most of the Senators who did both are form smaller, poor states. They hate their constituents. It's just that simiple. Time to tell the truth.

[Mr_King]

41. Well I guess you should be DNC Chair then.

That way you can decide who gets to be a Democrat and not get to be a Democrat.

I guess Senator Chaffee is better then Senator Conrad and that we should praise Chaffee for his entire career and just kick Conrad out the party. Alito is on the Surpreme Court because we (the Democrats) aren't winning elections. How can a party hold on to the House of Reps for 40 years using the same formula (e.i. welcoming those Senators and Congressman/woman from these "smaller, poor states"). The Democrats need to start winning elections in Congress and then we can make SURE that people like Alito and Roberts stay off the Surpreme Court bench. All the filibusters in the world aren't worth a Democratic MAJORITY in Congress and/or a Democrat in the White House. Plus I don't condem a Senator for one bad vote. I hated Clinton for signing NAFTA, but I don't define his entire term on just NAFTA. As long as the good out ways the bad. We gotta start winning elections and that's just the cold hard TRUTH....Justice Stevens ain't getting any younger.

The Democratic Party isn't about judges. It's about health care, social security, civil rights, education, and creating and keeping American jobs. The things I said above. It's like Republicans and terroism they scare their supporters with that issue and the EXTREME left is the same way with these judges.

-Most Democrats believe in God

-All Democrats are against abortion (choice and abortion are 2 totally different things)

-Most Democrats are hetrosexual

-And some Democrats are moderate or conservative whether some here like it or not

Like I said issues like abortion, gay marriage, judges, God in the classroom, etc. are what matters to the far left and the far right. But us in the center-left will continue to vote on economics first and formost.

President Truman wasn't a liberal and he intergrated the military.

President Johnson wasn't a liberal and he signed the civil rights acts of the 1960s and created the "Great Society".

President Clinton isn't a liberal and he created the biggest surplus in U.S. history and blanced the budget.

So sometimes those rural or southern, moderate or conservative, Democratic Senators and Congressman/woman can surprise you.

Don't judge a Democrat in Congress' entire record on one or two votes. What if a Democrat in congress is there for 20 years and has the most liberal voting record in history but one time or even two times (hell three times) votes for a conservative judge, you're going to kick him or her out the party or call them corrupt and just like a conservative?

[PBass]

42. We need to go after the sellouts and wimps with hammer & tongs

We need to try to hammer them into a more progressive frame, with concerted pressure. I realize that won't work on a lot of the lamest of the lame. So we need to keep score and hold grudges against the Dems who don't represent progressive values, and when we can replace them, we should replace them.

We also need DU members to get involved in local politics ourselves, get positions on school boards, get placed at any level we can get placed, local, regional, state or even national. Work your way through the ranks. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself, so if you want a true progressive foundation to the party then you have to build it from the bottom up, and not just from the top down.

By the way, that chart showing the Dems who voted for Alito AND the bankruptcy bill... just awful. Those who voted for 3 or 4 of those issues need to get the boot. Can they be replaced?

[Mr_King]

46. And like I said...

if a Democrat who clearly has a liberal voting record in Congress that you would love any other day of the week votes the wrong way on a few bills you say we should throw them out the party for just those few votes?

Like I said we need to START WINNING ELECTIONS AGAIN!

If we had won control of Congress in 2002 and held on control in 2004, a Democrat would be chairman of the Senate Judicary Commitee and we'd have 10 votes instead of 8 votes. Then there would be no need to even talk about a filibuster in the full senate. Alito (and somebody of his ilk) would have never gotten out of commitee. I'd rather have 10 votes on the Senate Judicary Commitee then have to even consider a filibuster on the Senate floor.

But you are right there are some Democrats in Washington that just don't get it and it doesn't matter if they have a (D) at the end of their names. And we do need some new Democratic blood in Washington. And if these Democratic canidates who are running against these Republican incumbents win in November then we will have that. But we have to win first.

Run as a moderate or a conservative and govern as a liberal.

[autorank]

43. I accept the Chairmanship. Dr. Dean has provided a great foundation.

Long post, short answer

President's Truman, Johnson, and Clinton WOULD NEVER HAVE VOTED FOR ALITO OR FOR CLOTURE.

President's Truman, Johnson, and Clinton WOULD NEVER HAVE VOTED FOR THE BANKRUPTCY BILL.

Thank you:) for your confidence and I will use your endorsement in my ever expanding sphere of influence.

[Mr_King]

44. Influence huh....

well if you say so.

You want short answers to questions (a like some cable "shout show" media pundit)

You don't know Truman personally

You don't know Johnson personally

And I will make a safe bet you don't know Clinton personally.

So therefor you don't know for sure how they would have voted on those issues. Truman didn't win in Missouri, Johnson didn't win in Texas, and Clinton didn't win in Arkansas by being far left liberals.

A Democrat in Massachusetts is not always going to be like a Democrat in Tennesse.

P.S.
If you want to be DNC chair then you need get our 2006 platform (our own REAL "Contract with America") out into the voters' short attention spans before these poll numbers that are in our favor now are gone in late October. Because you know the Repunks have already started and are going to go TERRORISM TERRORISM TERRORISM crazy this spring, summer, and fall and the media is going to eat that up like they did in 2002 and 2004. TERRORISM gets ratings and air time not little old health care.

[JamesTee]

45. I agree - half the people voted AGAINST...

this adminsitration in 2 elections. It's not time to quit!!! There's a lot of house-cleaning of DINOs to do and we have to start building up our infrastructure. Instead of dontaing campaign money to DINOS, I suggest giving it to college dems.