Giuliani & McCain=very well liked. What dirt do we have on them?

[ecstatic]

Giuliani placed 1st and McCain placed 3rd on likeability polls. I can't explain it because I look at them and see ASSHOLES, but we have to accept public perception and work from there.

Have we begun to collect information to derail their potential 2008 candidacies, or are all of our efforts still focused on tearing down our own potentials (i.e., Clinton, Obama, etc.)?

:shrug:

[vi5]

1. Anything that gets thrown at either of them...

will be met with cries of "smear!!!" and "politics of personal destruction!!!" whereas worse things thrown at our candidates will be fair reporting of political positions.

McCain is going to be a trickier proposition. But Gulliani we won't have to do shit to discredit because the religious nutcases on the right are going to destroy him before any of us have to lift a finger.

[DireStrike]

2. “The field's already getting crowded with candidates....

...Everyone knows about Hillary and McCain, but who else has a shot? On the Republican side, Rudy Giuliani. Hero. 9/11. Time person of the year. Member of the comb over club. But also a member of the New York, divorced, pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-stem cell research, gay-friendly wing of the Republican Party. I'm sorry, did I say wing? I meant room. Did I say room? I meant corner. Did I say corner? I meant table...

for one."

–Jon Stewart

[rox63]

3. Well, there's McCain's history as one of the Keating 5

for starters.

[roamer65]

51. Yuppers. You got it.

[JackBeck]

4. Rudy was once married to his cousin.

[k_jerome]

5. McCain has an illegitimate child with a minority...have at it. nt.

[Oreo]

16. Not true

That's what Bush's push polls said in SC in 2000. I think he adopted.

The thing with this is even after he went through that with Bush he went on to this:

[k_jerome]

18. yeah, i know. i thought it was a response this thread deserves. nt.

[wicket]

38. This is what he should be attacked on

Bush smeared his family, and yet he went on to endorse him. (BTW, his daughter was adopted from Bangledesh). Also, the Bush/Rove push polls went after McCain's wife too. I can see the attack ads now: "McCain cut and run from defending his family's honor, if he can't defend his own family, do we really want him defending the country?"

Or something like that. :)

[ecstatic]

39. awesome! good one!

It plays into the type of stuff RWers care about. LOL

[Imagevision]

56. Relatively simple, just bad-mouth McCain the way Bush did in Carolina's

worked like a charm (thank you Karl)

[k_jerome]

58. if you do, McCain will kiss your ass. nt.

[sam sarrha]

6. crisis on 911 was due to Giuliano demanding the NYC Command control center be within walking

of his office.. putting it directly in the devastation of the 911 attack.. making it useless

[eleny]

7. During the 9/11 days, in one of his daily news briefings....

I saw Giuliani tell a reporter that the air quality was checked and it was safe. Maybe it's not a major smoking gun. But I remember looking at the tv screen and telling my husband that Rudy was a lying sack of shit.

I've always hoped that this piece of film was still around. The presidential run would be a good time to drag it out. Too many are chronically ill now.

[Clark2008]

36. On a side note: My son and I went to NYC to visit about six

months after 9/11. We were there three days - THREE - and came home sick as dogs.

Went to the doctor and he said we were suffering from sinus infections caused by being around all that waste in the air (he asked if we'd been somewhere unusual - I told him about the trip) up there.

I can't imagine LIVING there.

[Dorian Gray]

46. Well, I'm sorry you were sick.

I've lived here since 1999, and in the days, weeks, months, and years after 9-11, I developed a few colds. (About one a year.) None of them were related to 9-11 and the bad air quality, so I doubt that the "air pollution caused by 9-11" did much to harm your lungs or sinuses. You were probably prone to them, and the average air pollution in NYC (the exhaust) may have been enough to exacerbate the problem. But, remember, there are millions of people who have lived here for years, and quite close to Ground Zero, as well, who haven't suffered from those problems.

[NYCGirl]

49. My apartment is about a mile from Ground Zero, and I've never had any

physical problems because of it, nor has anyone I know.

[Karenca]

8. Guiliani: the # 1 RACIST MAYOR

was the most racist mayor we've had in NY that I can remember.
He really worked hard at turning back time when it came to that.

Told cabbies they couldn't work on Tuesdays.

Tried to get rid of ALL of the street vendors.

He also proclaimed he was going to divorce his wife, Donna Hanover on TV
(before she even knew about it) , while he was
screwing his girlfriend in Gracie Mansion.

A total adulterer.

Married his cousin.

More, much more!

[Hekate]

9. Giuliani is pro-choice and tolerant of gays. Why get in the way of the wingnuts on that?

McCain has done an about-face on choice (he's now anti-choice) and in other ways is now catering to the hard-right. All that needs to be done is to let everyone who is not hard-right understand that.

No need to dig any dirt -- they both belong to a party that has now so narrowly defined itself that all Dems really need to do at this point is make sure people know where these two stand, and very likely their own party will bring at least Giuliani down.

Hekate

[ecstatic]

20. I don't think fundamentalists will be a crucial voting block to

counteract this time around. After all the evangelical scandals of late--the fact that their prized issues were not even addressed (i.e., abortion)... I think this time we have to counteract the moderates but I could be wrong.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. for one thing we could remind people that history did not begin

on 9/11.

Giuliani was a wash-out, a has-been on the way out with his political and personal life in tatters before 9/11, all for very good reasons. The man has not changed - only his image.

As for straight-talking McCain, simply highlight the repeated inconsistancies - he personifies the term flip-flop. He is not a moderate. He is virulently pro-war. Work with that.

[Karenca]

11. GUILIANI blamed the AMERICAN TROOPS

for the problems in IRAQ.

[Oreo]

12. This is enough to sink Rudy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8

The Fundamentalists will flip... and thats without the fact that he kicked his wife out of the Governor's mansion and brought in his mistress

[ecstatic]

13. The good news is, Bush already did most of the dirty work

as far as McCain is concerned. I know I know, it will be tasteless to bring up the black baby meme again, but if that type of crap works with RW voters then why not? :sarcasm:

As far as Giuliani is concerned, his shining moment was when he was pretending to be in control of the scene at the towers on 911. But the truth of the matter is: HE DID NOT EVACUATE!! Workers were told to return to their desks after the first plane hit (and I think even after the second plane hit??). That is unacceptable and caused thousands of lives to be lost.

Then there is the photo of him dressed in drag.

The thing is, I don't think the evangelicals will play a heavy role in the 2008, as they were used up, chewed up and spit out over the past 6 years.

So we have to get dirt that will play to the moderates on both sides.

[monmouth]

14. Giuliani was dissed in my paper today by a member of the

African American community. The minister and Rev. Sharpton were in talks re the shooting of the young man Saturday night. They said that Giuliani was un-responsive and "nowhere to be found" the last time an incident of this nature had occured regarding negative police activity. It took him weeks before getting involved with the police shooting of a man in an apartment house. Mayor Bloomberg was involved immediately and has helped to quell the anger of the community

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. Rudy...while mayor........

in order to decrease NYC's wealfare burden....he had an army of pepole going into the city schools and having the parents come in and told them it would be better to have your children diagnozed with ADD and ADHD because you will recieve MORE money from the federal gov't then from the state welfare system....had them all taken of the city/state roll and place them ALL on the federal dime....spent more then a year on this endeavor...talk to the teachers in the public schools they will tell you all about it.

[EST]

17. Giuliani is a joke-there's no way he could become a serious

candidate except in the eyes of the blockhead wingnut warm stream media and the 60% of the publiclown party that represent the 30% who think * is ok.

He's a walking, festering ethics boil-he knows it, we know it, and if he dares to challenge the well informed blog-is-fear, he'll find his hide ripped off with hot pliers.

McCain is a grasping weakling. I think the pissed off lefties will not let him slide by on his "maverick" magic carpet.

John Kerry nearly had his balls in the Keating five dustup in '87 and I suspect most of the sat-upon files are still around, somewhere.
McCain will not be a particularly strong candidate unless the democratic congress suffers a relapse of the made man disease they've suffered from for the last ten years.

I can't imagine Jon Tester letting anybody pull that weak kneed bullshit over his attitude.

[Oreo]

19. Amadou Diallo

Another reason Giuliani can't win

http://www.courttv.com/trials/diallo/chronology.html
http://www.spectacle.org/0300/diallo.html

[Oreo]

21. McCain will be older than Reagan was when he left office

There's lots of ammo... we could go on all day with this.

[EST]

27. Not quite

He'd be older than raygun was when he entered office.

[kenny blankenship]

22. this should do it! (don't know if GOP ready for "Miss Thing")

[jbonkowski]

23. McCain's voting record is VERY conservative

Bring it up and a lot of people deny it. It kind of freaks out his supporters and press who like him.

He has cultivated this image of having an independent streak, but the voting record proves otherwise. He talks one way and votes another.

Some people have trouble accepting facts, but I think we can get this one across.

jim

[ecstatic]

42. That might help him with the right wing

We'd have to be very specific about what he voted conservatively on when addressing the moderates.

[Clinton Crusader]

24. Guiliani is an ASSHOLE

I lived near NYC during 9/11. BELIEVE ME, on Sept. 10 his approval ratings were in the TOILET. He had his mistress living in Gracie Mansion, while his wife and kids still lived there. Then suddenly the next day he becomes a freakin' GOD. puh-leeze.

AND, AND, he's been making MILLIONS of the backs of all the dead at WTC; charging exorbitant fees for speeches on the subject. I don't see him criticizing * for not even caring one whit about 9/11, IF it means so much to Rudy.

I loathe him.

[DrunkenMaster]

28. agreed

He refused to meet with the family of Amandou Diallo after he was assasinated by the police, he tried to force public museums to remove pieces of art he never actually saw.

Guliani's an asshole.

[AndreaCG]

41. I don't remember Rudy and his mistress living in Gracie

Mansion while Donna and the kids were there. I remember him moving in with a gay male couple who were very good friends of Rudy's.

That'll play even better with the homophobe wing of the Republicans!

[madinmaryland]

25. Don't forget Abner Louima and what happened to him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima

Rudy said nothing to condemn this outrageous act and actually backed the cops.

.snip
'In the Louima incident the police officials accused of overbearing physical abuse were reported as using the phrase "its Giuliani time!" when Louima was victimized.'
.snip

[DrunkenMaster]

30. I'd forgotten about that

Ugh.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

26. McCain's educational background: 895th out of 900

From the Naval Academy. And that's it.

Would you go to a doctor who graduated 895 out of 900? Well then, why would you let someone as stupid as that run the country?

[madinmaryland]

33. Bush is running the country now. 'nuff said.

[ecstatic]

40. Yeah... That might actually help him out

Intelligence is shunned by Americans, unfortunately.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

48. Say what you will about his smarts

But Bush went to Harvard and Yale and was *NOT* in the lowest percentage of his class.

If you want someone stupider than Bush, go ahead and defend McCain's abysmal record.

[Xithras]

29. Guiliani dumped his wife for a girlfriend while his wife was fighting cancer.

Seriously, if that alone doesn't shoot down any chance he has at a presidential run, I don't want to live in this country anymore. I don't have a problem with the fact that he left his wife in favor of another woman...people end their marriages and remarry every day. To do so while the woman you once loved is facing the possibility of mortality and a painful recovery, to abandon her when she most needs your support, is unforgivable in my book. From a political perspective I really don't know all that much about Guiliani, but from a personal perspective I haven't liked the guy since he dumped his wife in 2000.

My perspective on his popularity is this: Most Americans really had no familiarity with Guiliani before 9/11. He was the mayor of a major city, but unless you follow the news in that city you would never know who he was. I'd never heard of him until a mention of the controversy about his divorce made the SF Chron. Most American's didn't get to know him until 9/11, and they liked what they saw in him...an impassioned leader who appeared to be genuinely interested in his citizens. The problem, of course, is that none of the news channels ever mentioned his divorce at that time or anytime since. American's don't know what he did or how much of a self-centered arrogant ass he really is.

Correct that oversight and I guarantee his ratings will fall SHARPLY.

[Poiuyt]

35. That was Newt Gingrich

Giuliani brought his mistress into Gracie Mansion while his wife and children were still there. He also marched in a St Patrick's Day parade with his mistress.

[Xithras]

52. Gah, you're right. I don't like him either :)

I confused a detail. It was Giuliani that had the cancer.

It's been six years, the details are getting fuzzy :)

[BuyingThyme]

31. They're both covering for the people who attacked us on 9/11.

Another simple formula that Dems will overlook until we make them look.

[Gruenemann]

32. Giuliani loves to dress in drag

I have no problem with that, but it might be hard sell in some quarters...

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. I've never heard that one before. If true, he'll never have the support

of the RW religious wacko nut jobs.

[GreenTea]

34. No republican Prez candidate can beat a Dem without massive cheating...Remember

we won the last four elections...And a republican presidential candidate can't get within 10 points in California (and the Dem candidate's doesn't even have campaign in the state)...And that goes for the whole left coast... CA, OR, WA (and HI)

We truly have to get rid of electronic voting machines because the filthy, lying republican thieves keep using their easily hackable electronic machines (Diebold - ES&S) to steal swing states, (Florida, Ohio). Which state will be next in 2008? No one knows.

We have to get rid of the corporately OWNED (with our tax dollars) electronic voting machines.

[Poiuyt]

37. Read Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of Rudy Giuliani and 9/11

by Wayne Barrett and Dan Collins

Also, here's an article on Truthout by the same authors:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090206G.shtml

[warrens]

43. Rudy's toast

Trying to evict his wife and kids from the mayor's mansion during his divorce, blatantly cheating on two wives in front of reporters...it goes on and on. The guy's personal life is a disaster.

[ecstatic]

44. after reading this thread, it certainly seems that way

So I guess McCain is the only one to fear now.

[Dorian Gray]

45. Giuliani's dirt is pretty out in the open....

Ties to Bernard Kerick, affairs with co-workers, affairs while married to Donna Hanover, etc. He's a pro-choice Republican, and if those things don't make the Republican party turn on him, I don't know what will.

As for McCain, I don't know. I know little about his personal life. I used to admire him when I lived in Asia, as he came back to be the first ambassador to Vietnam since the war while I was living over there. But, that's all I really knew about him at the time. Now, I like his politics less, but I don't know a whole lot about his perosn.

[WI_DEM]

47. how about Rudy was opening living with another woman while married to his wife?

[Poiuyt]

50. John McCain is an admitted adulterer

McCain was still married and living with his wife in 1979 while, according to The New York Times' Nicholas Kristof, "aggressively courting a 25-year-old woman who was as beautiful as she was rich." McCain divorced his wife, who had raised their three children while he was imprisoned in Vietnam, then launched his political career with his new wife's family money. In 2000, McCain managed to deflect media questioning about his first marriage with a deft admission of responsibility for its failure. It's possible that the age of the offense and McCain's charmed relationship with the press will pull him through again, but Giuliani and Gingrich may face a more difficult challenge. Both conducted well-documented affairs in the last decade--while still in public office.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/008013.php

Keating 5 Scandal -
Though he was not convicted of anything, McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating after Keating gave McCain at least $112,00 in contributions. In the mid-1980s, McCain made at least 9 trips on Keating's airplanes, and 3 of those were to Keating's luxurious retreat in the Bahamas. McCain's wife and father-in-law also were the largest investors (at $350,000) in a Keating shopping center; the Phoenix New Times called it a "sweetheart deal."

Has been accused by one veteran's group of cooperating with the North Vietnamese while he was a prisoner.

http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm

McCain is also old and has had health problems. If elected, he would become the oldest president to start serving by three years (72 vs Reagan's 69).

[Sapphocrat]

53. Knock yourself out...

http://www.lavenderliberal.com/conservativebabylon/giuliani.php

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. McCain=Keating Five and Guiliani=Affair while married,

took mistress to the Governor's Mansion while his wife and son were still living there. He's a MAJOR SCUMBAG! I wonder if there's some garbage on the Guiliani/Kerik connection? Didn't they go into business together...security firm?

on edit...Guiliani's EXCUSE for having an affair was....his wife wasn't supportive enough during his Prostate Cancer surgery.:eyes:

[Imagevision]

55. Giuliani & McCain are only fluff -- Condi Rice will be the repugs great black hope