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Dems2002 Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 04:36 PM
Original message
Why is TPM carrying water for the DLC?
I have been reading TPM for years, but since Nancy Pelosi became speaker, there has been an obvious bias in favor of DLCer Steny Hoyer, and his gang.

1st was the immediate Muckraking reports against Murtha -- Frankly, if Murtha is corrupt, I'm glad he didn't become Majority Leader. But, there was NO equal focus on Steny's business connections and/or DLC ties to be a compare and contrast, but rather a deliberate attack on Murtha.

NOW, they've posted equally inflamatory information about Alcee Hastings...which, again, if true doesn't make him an ideal choice for the leadership position on the Intelligence Committee.

BUT, Jane Harmon is currently being investigated by the Justice Department and, again, is a loyal DLCer, and I don't see anything about HER issues -- Or any seeming need to look outside the box for members without obvious corruption issues hanging over their heads...

Rather, it seems like Josh Marshall has begun carrying water for the DLC.

I know that Josh Marshall is a DLCer and more economically conservative than myself. However, I considered his bias to be more world view, and did not expect him to begin promoting DLC candidates and undermining Nancy Pelosi the second she took office.

Dems

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Frankly, I could see this coming
The DLC has had their base rocked, just when they thought they were gonna cruise on into the 110th Congress and tell everyone how to run things. Now Lieberman is out of the official party structure, Pelosi endorsed Murtha over Hoyer, and Al From is starting to feel like he's on the outside looking in. To which I say, "Excellent."
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. TPM?
I'm stupid and I have a headache.

What's TPM?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Talking Points Memo
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Alcee Hastings
was impeached. Being honest about some Democrats does not make one a carryer of water for anyone.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I believe he was "censured" and not impeached by Congress. n/t
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. He was impeached, convicted & removed from office for bribery and perjury.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcee_Hastings

He was only the 6th judge in history to be removed via impeachment.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. He was "censured by the US House" though. And supposedly CLEARED
of Charges? :shrug:
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. He was cleared of nothing
He was acquitted when his con conspirator refused to testify.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. DU'ers who mindlessly & INACCURATELY use "DLC" should realise just how
little weight their arguments end up bearing.

'DLC'is thrown around here like the word poopiehead on the playground.

And while I understand the need to move the Left away from corporate dominance.... assuming every little thing is some fucking "DLC" conspiracy is ridiculous.

IMO, your post has no basis in any objective reality. It seems to be based in the obsession some have with seeing "DLC" enemies everywheres.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Amen, amen, a-fucking-men.
I'm glad to see someone else saying this besides me. The childish obsession around here with the eeevil DLC is just silly.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. The "DLC" is very real and it's morphed. So you can call us
what you want...but those of us who've been around politics a long time...see it for what it is.

It's very corrupted by "Think Tanks" and has grown into that group shifting from what the founders really were trying to do when it was created at Hilton Head Island for Renaissance Weekends as a "New Way" for Dems when Bill and Hillary were just "pups."
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. DUer's who mindlessly and inaccurately
refuse to see the bigger picture and tie
loose ends together are the pathetic ones, IMO.

Surprised this thread, and some of these posts
are still here, because this type of discussion
is usually quashed before facts are laid out.

Thank you KoKo, I agree with you.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Bullshit
Threads attacking the DLC are completely safe and common. Threads attacking the Democratic Party are squashed out, asw they should be. This isn't Greens Underground.

Bryant
Check ito ut --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I'm referring to
the 600 lb. country of Israel in the room.
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Dems2002 Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Don't disagree, but that's the current power structure divide in the House
Objective reality is this:

TPM is a site that I've read for years, since at least 2002.

I have found it to be an excellent source for real, honest to goodness reporting on the internet.

I found it strange that it entered the world of insider baseball following the election, but have closely followed TPM Muckraker, so figured it was noteworthy.

It went on the attack against Murtha immediately, and questioned Pelosi's leadership the first week out.

Because this is a site that I trust, I took these accusations very seriously. My personal opinion was that Steny Hoyer, a definite DLCer, wasn't my favorite choice for a variety of reasons, but I wanted to hear more.

Josh followed up his Murtha reporting by running a soft soap Q&A with Steny. He said that they attempted to contact Murtha but heard nothing, (I think the window to respond was about 24 hours) so the Steny piece ran alone as the only counter to the corrupt Murtha stories.

This is NOT reporting. This is sending out the Press Release from one side and ignoring the other, just like the MSM does for the Republican machine.

I am not writing because I think Hastings and Murtha are the best choices, I'm writing because Josh's site seems to be a site where real journalism is practiced, but if they begin 'carrying water' for a wing of the Democratic Party, I think that needs to be pointed out and they need to stop, or they will lose credibility.

Frankly, I wish TPM had not chosen to get involved in the internecine warfare. However, I expect, if they do so, to do so by reporting equally on both sides, NOT pointing out the character flaws of one side while completely ignoring similar flaws on the other.

If TPM had done this, it might have been possible for all of us to to rise up against both choices and a dark horse, morally upright candidate might have thrown his/her hat into the ring...(It was probably too late for this to occur for the Majority Leader position, but I remember after Newt, the Republicans quickly ate several different front runner candidates due to scandal.)

Dems

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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hastings is an embarrasment and should not be chair
TPM has been muckraking against corruption on EITHER side of the aisle.

If Pelosi persists with this nonsense she may find someone else is Speaker in January.

She has not inspired much confidence so far.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Supposedly Jane Harmon is being investigated by FBI...So take your
pick or go a third way.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I don't think Pelosi's in any danger.
Edited on Tue Nov-21-06 06:18 PM by leveymg
There's a major struggle for control of the Intel Committee Chair, and it's a lot bigger than any particular Mmeber's alledged "corruption." The same theme you're bringing up against Hastings was also played (unfairly) against Murtha. Please don't play these GOP memes.

It has to do with Pelosi's effort to clean AIPAC out of key leadership spots. AIPAC is a much bigger scandal, and the Speaker-designate is doing a great job of trying to quietly defuse the issue within the House before it blows up.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. There's an attempt to split up the Dems, and two cleavage lines are:
Edited on Tue Nov-21-06 06:09 PM by leveymg
DLC vs DNC, which you mentioned (Exhibit A), and the other is AIPAC, which goes right to the Harmon problem. The GOP also has an interest in sharpening axes on this, obviously, and may be stoking the flames.

Consider Exhibit B, this reader post that appeared on Josh's blog at TPM:

By: BillRoyle on July 16, 2006 at 03:41pm
Flag:

The question at Josh Marshall's Talking Points Memo blog and the related TPM Cafe right now is - who let in the AIPAC thugs?

Marshall allowed one MJ Rosenberg - a former AIPAC member - to write an article about the Israeli-Palestinian issue. It was a one-sided piece that was severely criticized by quite a few TPM Cafe commenters.

Rosenberg reacted by accusing practically everybody at the TPM Cafe of being "anti-Semites" who "want Jews dead" and should back to the "Aryan Brotherhood."

When this rant was severely denounced by TPM Cafe readers, Marshall STOOD UP FOR ROSENBERG, saying he "knew where he was coming from", beause Marshall gets a lot of "anti-Semitic" email. Marshall provided a tepid "example" of this email to justify his support for Rosenberg.

It seems it's becoming clearer and clearer WHY TPM Cafe contributors tend to come from the "Democratic neocon" wing. People like Ivo Daalder, Rachel Kleinfeld, Peter Beinart and now MJ Rosenberg have for months been posting contributions to the site either denigrating the perception that the Bush administration intends to attack Iran, or supporting the US's "right" to intervene in other countries for the US's own purposes.

Now Marshall is complaining that his site has too many people who are using rhetoric he doesn't approve of and is contemplating banning commenters on the basis of as-yet-undetermined rules.

Stay tuned as the Talking Points Memo site goes in support of Israel's and the US's war on the Middle East.


I noticed that there was an attempt to fan a flame war between Daily Kos and The New Republic this summer, just before the Lebanon war broke out.
See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/10/23308/7695

Somebody's trying to cleave the Jewish vote away from the Democratic Party, and the strains are showing.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I think that Josh has gotten support
from sources that have to do with his marriage. He hasn't had to do fundraising campaigns and he's talking about all the new features his site will have in the coming months.

I don't think it's Josh himself...but those who are funding his site. Josh and Linda Rozen were completely trashed by the "Corporate Media Establishement" with the "forged Niger Documents story that would "shift the tectonic plates in DC." Their story that might have thrown the '04 Election to Kerry was trashed when "CBS 60 Minutes" canned it and yet now deceased Ed Bradley allowed the tape of the story that was canned because of Rather Flub Up to be posted on Salon.

I think Josh learned from that trashing of his reporting along with Linda that the "Powers that Be in DC" are not gonna support you if you expose stuff that goes to close to the Center of what they are about.

He's a young guy with a new baby. His wife's maiden name was Millet Israeli and his baby is named after an Israeli Hagahah leader.

I think Josh...like many in all our Media learned not to "question" and now he is corrupted by those same "PTB." After his sad experience with the "Forged Niger Documents" can we expect this young guy with a new baby and a wife to throw his life away challenging the Power Structure? Why would he want death threats and his car stolen in a parking garage when he has his whole life ahead of him?

I feel sad that this is what things have come to. :-(

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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. KoKo, you make some really good points. n/t
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. I very much doubt that Josh Marshall carries water
for anyone. I have been reading him for years as well, and listening to him regularly on AAR....he doesn't "carry water" for the DLC...he expresses his preferences, that's all. Just because someone doesn't follow along, in lockstep, with DUers, all of the time, doesn't mean they carry water for the opposite opinion. Josh Marshall is one of the good guys, and supposedly, we have a big tent...except here at DU, I guess. Reminds me of the times when DUers have tried to exite a "revolution" against Kos and others...sheesh.

Marshall doesn't carry water for the DLC....there, I said it again.
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