Want to save the middle class? Exempt the first $50 k from ANY taxes

[SoCalDem]

and for people making less that $30K a year, create a $1K a year Roth IRA for the ones under 40

progressive rates for over $50K

(that's 50K per person..not per family)

Can you imagine the jumpstart the economy would get from all that money pouring into the economy..

Grover Norquist wanted to "starve the beast"..He actually had a good idea..he just chose the wrong "beast"..

If we could even do this for a few years, it would go a long way to improving lopts of people's lives..
...............................................

Also.. a 2 yr college program needs to be the "new 11th & 12th grades". A high school diploma does not cut it anymore.

................................................

index health care premiums to income

................................................

require corporations who produce outside the US, to pay "import" taxes when they try to bring the merchandise back in...and figure out how much fuel they waste in the transporation and tax them on that too

if their products all of a sudden started costing what they "should" cost, they might re-open some US companies IN the US.

.....................................


We need some outside-the-box thinking..

.....................................

Screw Nafta,Cafta, Shafta...

We need to rebuild what we are losing before it's too late.

[Xipe Totec]

1. That's a good start

probably needs some tweaking, eliminating tax loopholes and such, but it is simple to understand and enforce.

[msongs]

2. gee could you raise it a bit to about $52,794.37? nt

[SoCalDem]

3. c'mon..pony up the tax on that measly $2,974.37.. you can afford it

:evilgrin:

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Would like to see that cover even high levels of education. :^)

[SoCalDem]

6. But if the first 2 years were free, students would only have

half the debt..or have a breather in between where they could work (they would have their associate's degree) ...make enough money to help pay for the other 2 years :)

It;s a start:)

[aquart]

7. No, we need to stop dumbing down the lower grades.

8th grade students used to do work that we would hesitate to give college students now.

[SoCalDem]

9. That too.. You can be Sec of Education in my adminsitration

Teachers spend all their time maintaining order and teaching to the tests..

Kids need to go back to actually learning things :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. I'd rather see them not have to pay for school at all, and have some money to

buy their own home with. We're still living in a rundown trailer, still paying off loans from 13 yrs ago. Not fun. :(

[FogerRox]

28. I think Jefferson agrees that education is one of the 3 pillars of a middle class

And that without a middle class you dont really have a democracy.

A War on the Middle Class generally attacks the 3 pillars holding up the middle class. Progressive taxes, labor & education. Again I look to Thom Harthman: Jefferson said, in an 1824 letter: "This degree of education would ... give us a body of yeomanry, too, of substantial information, well prepared to become a firm and steady support to the government." Jefferson started the University of Virginia with the intent to provide the yeomanry with a free education so as to be prepared to take part in the Government, the citizen legislaters if you will.

Read the whole thing @ http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/2006/11/tax-rates-middle-class.html">my blog

[Sherman A1]

5. I am all for it

but, how do you pay for it? We are already in debt beyond what anyone can imagine. I want this just as much as anyone, but somehow the government needs to be funded.

[SoCalDem]

8. Um.. Cool it on the war shit.. and the no-bid contracts for starters

We seem to be able to pay for lots of stupid stuff.. why not pay for things that actually benefit society as a whole?

We seem to forget that the ones with ALl the money (corporations) have SHIFTED the costs to the public since the reagan era..

prior to that time, they actually paid a LOT more..and it did not cause "runaway prices"..

the republicans have always tried to privatize wealth and socialize cost..

[chimpymustgo]

10. You have my vote. nt

nt

[lakeguy]

16. cut defense spending in half. nt

[Sherman A1]

42. Absolutely

and I really doubt if you will see a cut in defense spending.

[KansDem]

26. How do we pay for it? Stop the war...$11 million AN HOUR would buy a lot...

Start by asking the ueber-rich to kick in...

[Sherman A1]

41. I agree completely

and don't see military spending dropping by much if at all.

[Cleita]

11. I think we need to bring back progressive taxation in a big way.

Back when the top 5% of the wage earners in this country had to pay 90% in FIT, the gluttonous recompensation for executives at the expense of their workers did not happen. They were happy to take less income to fall into a lower tax bracket.

[FogerRox]

29. 92 %

A Middle class is a rare thing, occurring only 3 times thru-out history. The first rising of a middle class occurred as a result of the Black Plague. The Black Plague killed about 30% of the worlds population, creating a labor shortage. This allowed that Trades & Craftsman to command a higher wage, which trickled down to the common yeoman, much as the unionization of US labor in the middle 1900's allowed non union labor to command wages akin to union labor. Some have written that the renaissance, without a middle class that had the liesure time to even consider art & music, let alone the time to paint, sculpt, write & perform music, would have never occurred.

The second rising of a middle class occurred in the US colonies in the middle 1700's. Once a few Indians were driven away from an area, there was free land available for farming. In an agrarian society this was a big deal in that you could own your own land, grow & sell your own crops & keep the profits, much as a family owned business does today.

The third rising of a middle class occurred during the Great Republican Depression of the early 1930's. FDR's New Deal brought forward tax progressivity, as well as labor rights earned thru the union movement, such as the Child Labor laws passed in 1937 & 1938, (Kids do belong in school afterall). But I've gotten ahead of myself, let me backtrack a bit.





After WW1 tax rates dropped during the "Roaring Twenties" as income disparity increased until the Stock Market crash of 1929, the start of the Depression. Under the guidance of Franklin D. Roosevelt, tax progressivity returned, and the top tax rates went up, programs like Social Security and Unemployment relief got started, the CCC & the WPA put people back to work creating infrastructure thats still in use to this day.
My Parents got thru the Depression with a progressive income tax, we won WW2 with a progressive income tax. The 12 million men & woman that served in the military in WW2 came home, the GI Bill sent vets to college, and they started families. This created the largest, most vigorous and the best educated middle class, in the history of the planet. Labor unions were at the zenith of their power, our eductaional institutions were the envy of the world, corporations made money, the wealthiest made money. The American Dream was born.


Thom Hartman wrote , " but the real events of the 1930s and 1940s that set the stage for a second American Middle Class were primarily the Wagner Act, the G.I. Bill, and tax changes ranging from raising the top rate on the most rich to 90 percent to offering an emerging middle class home interest tax deductions."

Complete blog here

http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/2006/11/tax-rates-middle-class.html

[Efilroft Sul]

12. Make disbursements from 401(k) tax-free.

That's right. If you're saving in one now for retirement, you get ALL the money you put in it. If you're already retired and drawing on a 401(k)'s savings, your next check has no taxes taken from it.

The Democrats need to create a Roth IRA version for the 401(k). Savings will go through the roof, and the Republicans will be crushed at the polls.

[BeFree]

13. Lower limit 25K

It would do an awful lot for America's workers. Have a slow progression to 50K and then a steep climb for those above. 200K and up should pay at least 70% of gross income in taxes -- their income relies heavily on big government, whereas someone under 50K needs far less big government.

[Syncronaut Seven]

17. 25K, Second that

Covers quite a few (2 full time income) couples & famlies.

Fed Min. 5.15
40hr * 52wk *2ppl = 4160hrs.

$21,424 a year. Plus or minus.

That's the combined effort of two human beings, All year, all work, no cash, no hope, just marking time.

Modern day slavery, with taxes to boot.

You know, I could see this turning ugly.

[SoCalDem]

20. It's got to cover the majority of the middle to have it work

No taxes on 25K just means they won't have to use plastic for food.

By eliminating taxes on the "up to 50K" crowd, you unleash extra buying power.. They are the ones who will now buy that NEW car, instedd of aused one.. that creates jobs..

and the more jobs created, the more power the workers have.. remember the 90's?

[porphyrian]

14. I'll kick that. - n/t

[MrSlayer]

18. Great idea.

A certain Presidential candidate and economics professor had that same idea in 2004. What was his name again?

[Jim Warren]

19. From Robert Reich

Certainly not to counter any of your input, more as additional ideas floated by Reich, doable and worth looking at.

* Cut the Alternative Minimum Tax so it doesn’t slam the middle class, and roll back the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

* Open Medicare to every American who needs affordable health insurance, and use Medicare’s resulting huge bargaining clout to reduce drug prices.

* Bar companies from deducting from their corporate income taxes any executive pay in excess of $1 million a year.

* Raise the minimum wage and index it to inflation.

* Reform Social Security by eliminating the ceiling on payments so people earning over $100,000 a year pay the same percent of their income as everyone else.

* Raise fuel economy standards, eliminate subsidies to the oil companies, and use the money instead for basic R&D in non-carbon based energy.

* Renegotiate the Kyoto protocols on greenhouse gas emissions.

* And while we’re at it, reaffirm the Geneva Conventions.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=12203

[hfojvt]

36. those are alot different

Reich does not propose any huge giveaways to families making $50-100,000, unlike the OP. Also, the trouble is not with Reich's proposals, but how do you sell them? Any "roll back" of the Bush tax cuts for the rich is going to be a) vetoed by Bush, and b) sold through the RWNM and the M$M as a 'tax increase' that the majority of voters will not support.

[genie_weenie]

21. But what about the roads and bridges and schools and national guard?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2748442

[SoCalDem]

22. our economy is H U G E .. there IS enough money to do it all

all that has to happen is for the government to start putting first things first..

This is a government trick.. they deliberately pit groups against each other so that they think that the only way they can get something is to take it away from someone else..

we need a 10 year plan..

ten years to focus on "fixing' what's broken with the country.

[genie_weenie]

23. I agree about the Government Trickery

I don't understand why Americans can't understand that a Government which has conducted surveilance planted propaganda and espionage against "enemy peoples" might not use those same tactics against their "own" citizens.

But, when you have a huge War Machine to feed and billions to steal you do what you gotta do.

Taxes will never be lowered because the Government has fine tuned it's appartus of control well enough to keep people divided and allows enough pittance to trickle down to keep the people placated.

[SoCalDem]

25. We are so used to being "trickled" on, we barely even notice.

The government, that amorphous entity" always wants first dibs on the huge pile of money we send them every day, and you better believe that they have plans for it ALL...and then some.

The whole reason we HAVE they style of government we have is because long ago we decided that the general public "needed" wiser people, all collected in one place, to decide what was in the PUBLIC interest..

Somehow that plan has gone horribly awry.

They gobble up all the money for THEIR pet projects, and say "To Hell with You" to all of the people actually sending the money..

and when they DO decide to do something for the "little people back home", it's got more strings than Gulliver, attached to it.

I think they all enjoy watching people grovel and fight each other over the crumbs they toss our way..

We're Entertainment..

[genie_weenie]

40. Hey you're right.

Unfortuantely... :patriot:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

24. Great ideas

and innovative thinking!! Invigorate the economy by reducing the strain on the middle class ... works for me!

edit oops ... response was to the OP

[Rosemary2205]

27. I'd just be happy to pay the same tax rate as Bill Gates.

He pays 15% total. Taking all federal into account I pay about 30% total.

[FogerRox]

33. Rosemary2205, that is the Bush tax policy, its called regressive tax policy.

A War on the Middle Class generally attacks the 3 pillars holding up the middle class. Progressive taxes, labor & education. Again I look to Thom Harthman: Jefferson said, in an 1824 letter: "This degree of education would ... give us a body of yeomanry, too, of substantial information, well prepared to become a firm and steady support to the government." Jefferson started the University of Virginia with the intent to provide the yeomanry with a free education so as to be prepared to take part in the Government, the citizen legislaters if you will.

The current war on the middle class started with less progressivity in tax rates, then union busting. More recently, tax breaks for corporations to move our jobs overseas, increasing illegal immigrantion to enlarge the labor pool, which drives wages down. The Bush Jr. tax policy is regressive while Bill Clintons tax policy was much less regressive and was moving to true progressivity. Additionaly we've seen 20 billion in cuts from student aid during the last 2 years. This is warfare my friends, the Aristocracy has attacked us, and we must defend ourselves.

More

http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/2006/11/tax-rates-middle-class.html

[TahitiNut]

30. So, over 75% of workers would pay no taxes? (Rots of ruck.)

[Stinky The Clown]

31. This plan, or one very similar to it, was espoused during the 04 primaries

It was a good idea then and a good idea now.

[hfojvt]

37. Wesley Clark proposed something very similar

I didn't think it was a good idea then, and I still don't like it. For a family making $12,000 and one making $40,000 and one making $98,000 to pay the same tax rate - 0% does not sound progressive to me at all, and it's biggest beneficiary - the families making $98,000.

[AwakeAtLast]

32. That would make teachers like myself happy

We work so hard and are always just below making enough to comfortably pay bills. If I wasn't married, I don't know how I would feed and clothe my 4 y/o.

I like the way you think! :hi:

[Gregorian]

34. Almost exactly what I've been saying for years. Bingo!

It's so simple and obvious.

Stroke of a pen, and it's reality.


European kids know more about America's history than our own kids do. 9am to 6pm classes in France.

[hfojvt]

35. so families making $100,000 a year would pay no taxes?

and you think that helps the middle class?

From my POV, you are just giving a $20,000 tax cut (or more) to the family making $90,000 a year and giving me maybe $500. I don't think that helps the working class. The upper working class maybe, but not the working class. Most of that tax cut benefits people making over $40,000 a year.

Are you including FICA when you say "any" taxes? Because that's most of the tax that families under $40,000 are paying. Also, I am 45, almost, and making $12,000 a year. Your plan does next to nothing for me, and provides wads of cash to people doing much better than me.

[ThomCat]

38. It wouldn't have any impact on Sales Taxes paid either.

Which hit poor people very, very hard.

[Greyhound]

43. True, but sales taxes are not federal. n/t

[rocktivity]

39. Exactly what Al Gore proposed in '00

He based it on the median income, though--34K.

:headbang:
rocknation

[phiddle]

44. Actually, there's a current bill which is similar in concept.

Senate version by Ron Wyden, House version by Rahm Emanuel. (See http://wyden.senate.gov/)
It would:
1. Set the standard deduction at $26,000 for a head of household.
2. Treat investment income (dividends, cap gains) equally to wage income. This is big, as currently capital gains is taxed at only 15%, whereas wages and salaries are taxed at much higher rates.
3. Keep mortgage interest, education, IRA and health deductions as they are.
4. Repeal the ATM entirely
5.10% refundable credit for state and local taxes paid.
6. Have 3 income tax rates: 15% on the first $25,000 of taxable income (income minus deductions), 25% on the next $95,000 and 35% on the amount over $120,000.

Wyden claims that everyone with wage and salary income of less than $150,000 would see a decrease in taxes, and that it woud reduce the deficit by $100 billion/year.


I can't wait till this bill, buried in committee for 2 years, starts being debated openly! At that time, we'll OWN the tax issue!

[buddysmellgood]

45. No. A single person making 50k can afford to pay taxes. Everybody that can, should

contribute. It's a team effort.

[VelmaD]

46. As a single person whose gross income...

isn't too far below that I can definitively state that you are dead wrong. After all the taxes are taken out and my student loan payments and my monthly bills I don't have a helluva lot left to live on. One thing people always seem to forget is that single people generally don't have someone to help share their expenses. There's no second paycheck to help cover my rent or my electricity or the emergency repairs to the car. It's just me.

I contribute and I generally do so gladly (except when my taxes are being used to fun illegal wars). But why should I be expected to contribute MORE than a married person who makes the same amount I do?

[buddysmellgood]

48. I didn't say how much you should pay. I just feel that we all should pay something.

[immerlinks]

47. "progressive rates for over $50K"

Great idea. But once they reach the turning point tax the entire amount, not just the amount above $50K.

Let's close some of those loopholes while we're at it.

[MadHound]

49. I hate to rain on your parade, but your idea would bring about

governmental collapse and economic ruin to this country. Face it, the median household income in this country is a bit over $43,000. This means that over half the population in this country wouldn't be paying taxes under your plan. How are we going to make up that shortfall? Your "import" taxes are simply tariffs that would be passed onto the consumer, thus increasing inflation dramatically. And frankly, unless you put a tariff that amounts to a two or three times increase in costs, most companies will still pay the tariff and continue business overseas, for it would still be more profitable for them to do so.

In addition, as federal funding went down, property taxes would sky-rocket to the point that most middle class families could no longer afford to own a home.

Rather, let us re-establish the taxes on the upper class that we had sixty years ago, a ninety percent tax on their wealth. Invigorate the capital gains tax, continue the estate tax, balance the budget for real, and stop getting into grossly expensive wars for profit. That will re-establish fiscal responsibility and help out everybody who isn't rich, including college help for poor and middle class students.

But having over half the taxpaying public all the sudden not paying taxes is a recipie for economic disaster.