What will thee rest of the WORLD think of us if we don't impeach Bush?

[yurbud]

Some brilliant tacticians heree and in the pundit corps are trying to say it would be unwise, extremist, and tactically foolish to impeach (thee same kind of advice that lead to GOP control of all three branches of government).

In addition to being dead wrong about the domestic effect of impeachment, their "forget impeachment" strategery, they seem to have not even considered how the rest of the world would view that.

Some possilbilities:

• We must not have thought Bush was that bad. His only sin was failure which is more than adequately taken care of by voting his party out of office.
  
  
• We don't care about the treaties he ignored at will like the Geneva Convention. At best, we thought it was bad manners.
  
  
• the lives of the 600,000 plus Iraqis that died in his war to give Iraq's oil to his cronies don't matter to us as much as Clinton's blowjob from a fat intern.
  
  
• that though we claim to be superior to every other country on earth, we really have two standards of justice, one for the rich and one for everybody else. If some poor shlub robbed a liquor store and shot the clerk so he and his buddies could drink some 40s for free, he would be executed. If Bush kills half a million people to give his buddies trillions worth of oil that is no more noteworthy than when his grandfather hid money for the nazis during World War II, paid a fine, then went on to become a US senator.
  
  
  I sincerely hope that those who are saying we shouldn't impeach Bush are either shills for the right spinning their wheels or that this is just a way to keep the GOP calm until they turn off the ignition, take out the keys, and get out of the driver's seat with their hands behind their head.

[wundermaus]

1. The rest of the world...

will think we are idiots and cowards... and they will be right.

[applegrove]

2. Most countries don't have an impeachment process like the USA.

Most countries have been through "waiting out" the next election to get rid of some fool. I think they'll understand.

[yurbud]

7. Bolivians chased out president half as corrupt

and a lot of others seem to vote on more substantive issues than us

[lapfog_1]

9. A lot of developed countries have a parliamentary system.

And in THOSE systems, Bush would be packing up to leave right now.

[yurbud]

18. yep, no confidence votes, calls for elections whenever, PM question time

those systems wouldn't have allowed a W to rise so far. Maybe someone who represented the same interests, but not that retarded caligula fuck himself.

[AntiFascist]

38. There's always the military coup solution n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. they understand evidence and subpoenas

they understand it's doesn't happen over night.

I'm sure they'll enjoy watching the whole juicy process as much as we will.

[yurbud]

8. I'm hoping the people saying don't impeach are thinking that not

what they appear to be saying

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. I think most of us do

I'm sure there's few trolls mixed up in there somewhere, but I think it's a good strategy.

[fooj]

4. I'm in agreement.

Technically...the best way to do this is to HOLD HEARINGS. When the American people learn the extent of these rat bastard's treasonous behavior...they will be SCREAMING for accountability. Patience. Trust that we've elected good public servants and they will do the right thing. Conyers is issuing subpeonas. Waxman is set and ready to go. Have faith.:hi:

[elocs]

32. I believe that through oversight hearings and investigations

that we let the case for impeachment hearings build itself and have a strong majority of Americans calling for it. We cannot do impeachment right out of the gate because Pelosi said it is off the table and to have Conyers or Waxman go ahead on their own with impeachment hearings would make her look weak and ineffective. Democrats have the ability to go forward with impeachment at any time, but it has to be clear to the American people that Bush is clearly being impeached because he deserves it and not for revenge or payback. Strong support for impeachment by the American people will result in further Democratic gains in the next election.

[Union Thug]

5. I agree. We need to do what is right instead accomodating

political expedience.

[magellan]

6. Your fourth point has been true for some time

We do have two standards of justice, one for the rich and one for everybody else. This would just confirm it once again.

The other thing not impeaching would confirm, not only to the world but to me as well, is that our government is broken beyond repair and the Great Experiment has failed catastrophically.

[Erika]

10. W was a rich boy

The GOP elitists in this country will bargain in every way they know to keep the bastard from being impeached.

[magellan]

19. If that bargaining includes forcing Bush** out, I'm for it

Then we can get on with the Criminal Prosecutions.

[Erika]

23. Yep and Colin Powell should be one of our first witnesses

Powell has to clean up his name for posterity. The Iraqi mess is unforgiveable without some denying of responsibility.

[magellan]

29. Powell would be wise to do that

He was generally considered a hero after Gulf War 1, but he had already denied himself the chance to become a truly great and honorable man by getting caught up in the BFEE. Then to knuckle under to Bush** and the neocons...what a waste.

[yurbud]

11. which is why even the wealthy and elite would be wise to back impeachment

throw us a bone and then they can go back to screwing us softly or protect the tard and end up like Marie Antoinette.

[magellan]

25. Exactamundo

Don't know how they think they'll avoid it anyway. If they pursue investigations, which by all accounts they will into several matters, I predict the information they'll uncover over time will shock us. How do they think the currently uninformed masses will take it?

Bush** and his cabal will be lucky if they aren't run from the WH by conservative farmers with pitchforks.

No matter what the Dems do regarding impeachment, Paraguay will start to look REAL good to BushCo before too long. Better we hold them accountable and ensure none of them can stand for office ever again...at least not in this country.

[yurbud]

30. a fly in the ointmrnt: what if Dems hold hearings and press ignores

or gives it the same back of the bus treatment they've given these issues since the late 80s?

[magellan]

33. Well, there's the surprise

Because despite that behavior by the corporate media, American voters were somehow still aware of how stinky things have gotten in Congress and the WH and they delivered their ultimate judgment this week. I believe most voters are actively seeking real news as opposed to CM disinfotainment -- perhaps from newspapers and the internet.

And look at it another way: how will the damned "liberal" media be able to resist whining about how the Dems are investigating various BushCo matters, especially when the top dogs are being questioned? The RW blowhards will fuel curiosity all on their own. Relatively few out there are dumbass freepers who'll die loyal Bushbots, thank goodness.

[yurbud]

46. that is probably how it will go down. see V FOR VENDETTA

the Fox News-like prop outlet spins events and the people watching instantly see thru the bs and guess whats really going on.

[Selatius]

28. That would be the smart thing to do, and if I were one of them, I'd agree with you

The common people would be too busy ripping apart the puppet known as Bush to realize that the puppet master, the bankrollers and industrialists who backed him...twice, still get to run their Fortune 500 empires. If the people were truly informed, they'd be coming after all the bankers and industrialists, but as Hitler said, "What luck for the rulers that men do not think."

[magellan]

31. I'm not sure they'll all get away scot-free this time

Remember Halliburton is under investigation, along with State Street Bank....

[Laelth]

12. They'll think the Democratic Party is complicit in *'s war crimes.

I hope I won't have to agree with them.

-Laelth

[wundermaus]

27. hummm.... could the fix be in?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7496745315086387960&q=pelosi&hl=en

[yurbud]

47. a fair number are

[Jane Austin]

13. What wil the rest of the world think of us

when we take the only two years we may ever have to get something done for the middle class, and instead screw it up with something we don't even have the votes for?

Yes, we have a very slight majority in the Senate, but I don't think Joe Lieberman would vote to impeach his friend George Bush, do you?

[wundermaus]

14. It's ok... I rest my case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjZju__wheU

[yurbud]

48. thats great! did you give it its own thread? another one that dems should have used

they should fire every ad firm that makes those lame ass commercials and just use the best of those posted on the web.

[wundermaus]

58. Guess who is going to pay off...

Bush's Trillion Dollar Debt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXXtSVROC_w

[yurbud]

61. i do remember that from moveon contest

[kath]

15. Right on - if criminal acts, violations of the Constitution, and flagrant breeches of the

public trust are exposed it is our absolute DUTY to impeach and prosecute.

Political considerations be damned. Duty is duty.

[kster]

16. I agree Kand R.............. read on please

Check out these two vids, from day one, they said they were going to protect the American people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ngLMU_6J0&eurl=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6maCttsCU&mode=related...

What do you think about Impeachment now? They are dirty rat BASTARDS, and they need to be run out of office.

[alittlelark]

17. We'll IMPEACH after subpoenas are issued,

after information is analyzed, and after the Congress votes to IMPEACH.


That is the American Way.

[Erika]

21. Many GOP will vote to impeach when the truth comes out

that W had no cause or rational basis to invade Iraq.

[alittlelark]

24. That's why I'm not concerned w/ impeachment

the chips will fall as they may - my guess is into indictable Hague offences.

[yurbud]

49. it is one thing for congress to say that, but pundits and regular people

don't have those procedural constraints.

what bush has done openly and admitted to is not only impeachable but criminal.

he has admitted breaking US law with his wiretapping, broken US law and treaties by ordering torture, and through Cheney, pressured intel agencies to fabricate evidence for war and publicly punished someone who provided evidence of their lies.

unless you are a congressman or staffer who will be working on the proceedings, nothing should constrain you from stating the obvious except a hope that the whole thing will be swept under the carpet while we discuss how muvh weight Nicole Ritchie has lost or Lindsay Lohan has gained.

[upi402]

20. can he be impeached from prison?

just askin'

[Swamp Rat]

26. IMPEACH BUSH!

[Disturbed]

35. Most other countries feel that America is bent upon Global

Empire. The ME is to be conquered and subdued. If Investigations show that the Busholini Regime has committed crimes and nothing is done about it, that will confirm that Amerika is an Imperialist nation Hell bent upon domination of other countries for their resources, oil, water, minerals, and labor.

[Irreverend IX]

34. Retaining power in Congress and winning the White House...

Are more important than how other countries see us for the next two years. Impeachment will be unpopular domestically UNLESS the investigations turn up something really juicy and incriminating, preferably involving sex, and the media runs with it. I think there are pretty good odds of that happening, but unless Bush is found to have done something that truly shocks and horrifies a majority of Americans, impeachment is a no-go. Right now the majority think he's a bad president, but they haven't seen evidence of downright evil and criminal conduct that would justify impeachment. I know this is hard for people who read DU to fathom, but Joe Sixpack is very bovine and has an extremely short memory. People abroad know now that Americans are dissatisfied with Bush, and as Applegrove said many of them don't even know impeachment is an option here. Wanting to impeach now is impulsive and emotional, and that won't help us retain and expand Democratic power in government.

[yurbud]

50. not impulsive its about return to rule of law & who will vote for cowards?

don't you think that democrats equivocation and me too-ism in the face of GOP foreign & economic policy that help corporations and harm average americans.

dems won this one because of public disgust with gop. if dems don't impeach it shows they dont have the conviction and fortitude to govern.

[OneBlueSky]

36. he'll be out of office before impeachment runs its course . . .

better to focus on the myriad of crucial problems we face while investigating and building a case that can later be presented before the appropriate courts of law . . .

[yurbud]

52. year they impeach Clinton? even if not removed, bush needs historic stain

of impeachment.

[McKenzie]

37. problem is so many people will be in deep trouble

if the investigations are handled properly.

The trail goes a long way back and a lot of people were in on what has happened over the years. And, thorough investigations would take the top off a very big can of worms. I'm not sure the American people could deal with the truth of what lead them into the Iraq War in the first place.

I hope that can does get opened but I have my doubts whether the investigations will be so thorough that the whole truth is eventually laid bare for all to see.

[AntiFascist]

39. I see a two-step process evolving...

the Bush I camp may be instrumental in forcing Cheney out of office, if they sacrifice him as being blamed for the Plame outing. After Cheney is out, if this indeed IS the PROCESS, then the investigation into older areas of corruption should be continued.

[izzie]

40. I wonder if it could be done? How can you be sure he lied?

He has said all along that this was the information he got. I know it was all out their but I think he has played him self safe. It is like his father and the mess at that time. Same as the low guy goes to jail for the prison stuff and not the Generals. It is history that puts it where it should be.

[yurbud]

53. intel agents are on record about pressure on war already & joe wilson

proved intentional lies.

[yurbud]

55. already in public rec: his wiretap, torture, and forcing gov't scientists to lie about

air safety in manhattan after 9/11 & global warming, and that actuary they threatened if he wouldn't lie about cost of nedicare drug benny...

[izzie]

73. I just do not think it will be done. I just get that feeling.

Bush has sure been one bad President. I wonder if we will ever live it down?

[yurbud]

74. not if congress doesn't take appropriate action

[RagingInMiami]

41. Although the average dumbass American will say that it doesn't matter

what the rest of the world thinks of us, it really does matter because unlike most countries, we act as the world police. We are world leaders and we need to lead by example. If we don't set the standard by doing what's right within our country, we lose all credibility when trying to dictate what is right in other countries.

In fact, we've already lost all credibility around the world. But now we have a chance to regain that credibility.

So let's impeach the criminal.

[yurbud]

56. and it will only recoup some of our credibilty

[mtnsnake]

42. I nominate this for best post of the year

I sincerely hope that those who are saying we shouldn't impeach Bush are either shills for the right spinning their wheels or that this is just a way to keep the GOP calm until they turn off the ignition, take out the keys, and get out of the driver's seat with their hands behind their head.

Amen. It's hard to believe the amount of resistance that's being heard around here concerning impeachment. The reasons people are giving as to why we shouldn't impeach range from outright paranoia to borderline insane. Some of those "brilliant tacticians" you mentioned actually believe that impeaching Bush might stand in the way of progress or that it might come back to kick us in the ass. Yeah right. Funny how when President Clinton was impeached the country was so upset with Republicans that it rewarded them with two terms of George Walker Bush!

[yurbud]

57. good point: gop impeached clinton then got White House & all Congress

even people who disagreed could say they knew what gop stood for and would fight for (however destructive and hypocritical that is).

[muriel_volestrangler]

43. Seriously? We won't notice it.

The world isn't talking, or thinking, about impeachment. If the House of Representatives made a serious move to impeach Bush and Cheney (and remember, you've got to do both of them, or it won't do any good), someone would point out that you need a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to complete it, and the Republican senators have shown no signs of wanting to impeach the pair, so it would be another TV show that makes us wonder if the priorities of American politicians are more screwed up than we thought. There's been the OJ Simpson trial, the Clinton impeachment, and the Michael Jackson trial, and all 3 have looked more like media fodder than serious legal proceedings. Adding a 4th won't help the American reputation.

[baby_mouse]

44. They'll probably start stockpiling nukes.

In fact, given the historical context of Bush's rise to power, i.e. post Cold War and the new openness that followed its end, and Bush's disgusting and entirely unnecessary aggression, it's very likely that nobody's ever going to trust the US as a system again, whether you impeach Bush or not.

Unless some sort of mechanism is put in place into the US system to prevent these wicked sorts of people coming into power, the only thing anyone CAN do is stockpile nukes. Everyone's going to have to start reaching for Superpower status again.

[ArmchairMeme]

45. How does the world see the U.S. and...

How does the U.S. see itself?

After George Bush announced on national t.v. that he had used the NSA to accomplish warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens and that he would continue to do it I took a look around me and saw this extra large pickup trucks and Hummers with large American flags on them going through red lights and stop signs much more frequently.

My thought was and still is that Americans saw their leader admitting to breaking the law and to continue to break the law and that he was not held accountable. Have people here connected their behavior to that of their leader. If he can break the law then so can they.

If other countries send thank you messages to the Americans for the most recent voting (Japan and U.K) obviously they are watching what the people do. I didn't see this covered by the M$M but on the web.

What can we expect from our own citizens if the leaders of congress cannot hold the leaders of the country to account for their lawlessness.

I guess we could expect that the ceo pres. will just take his golden parachute and bonus check with him to Paraguay. The end.

[yurbud]

59. thank yous reminds of world reaction to tard re-election (PIC & TEXT)

Writing in the Times of London, Simon Jenkins' condescending sigh of disappointment typified the genre:

Mr Bush's election will give the rest of the world a collective heart attack. It expected a Kerry win. At the very least it expected Americans to somehow rein in a man it sees as naïve and dangerously belligerent. … Americans declined to rein him in. They legitimised him. The rest of the world has been roundly snubbed.

http://www.slate.com/id/2109242/

[mmonk]

51. The same as they do now. Untrustworthy.

[Mme. Defarge]

54. If we don't impeach

these goons who nearly destroyed our constitution and our democracy, who have violated international treaties, who have lied to go to war, who have systematically engaged in torture, who have taken corruption to an unimaginable level, and God knows what else -- after the impeachment of a President for lying about private consensual sex in the cynical attempt to overturn a legitimate election -- then, under what circumstances would we EVER impeach an elected official?

To not impeach this bunch of thugs is patently absurd.

[yurbud]

60. yep--reduces impeachment to partisan stunt to NOT use it on Bush

[Mme. Defarge]

64. If we don't impeach under these circumstances,

someone needs to explain to me under what exact circumstances we actually would impeach. :banghead:

[yurbud]

65. masturbation--kills millions of potential people

[DemPower]

62. we owe it to humanity itself to impeach that bastard and his cronies

K&R

[LeftishBrit]

63. We don't actually expect this of you, much as we think he deserves it

If you can muzzle him, reverse his policies, stop the war in Iraq, stop the 'war on terror' that just increases the risk of terrorism, and elect a good president in 2008, that will be plenty for the world!

I'd love to see Bush and Cheney impeached and convicted. But with 51 Dem senators out of the 67 you'd need, I don't think it would happen; and might just deflect time and money from other urgent endeavors. What I really hope is that criminal investigators will find so much evidence against them that they will be criminally prosecuted - but realistically, even if that happens, it's likely to take so long that they'll be out of office by the time it does.

[yurbud]

66. criminal prosecution is even less likely esprcially with a connected rich

fuck like Bush.

I am concerned dems dont want to wind down war on terror since it is cover for oil grab.

[Imagevision]

67. England managed to get Tony Blair to exit before his term expired!!

It stands to reason, Bush used Blair to go to war and was booted early because of failed decision making!

[yurbud]

72. good point. he'll be crying all the way to the carlyle group

[pat_k]

68. Great article on how we're being spun to surrender (FAIR)

They are cranking up the palace gates as fast as they can.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2992&printer_friendly=1">Media Advisory
Morning-After Pundits Take Winners to Task
Victorious Dems lectured by media establishment

. . .

"The voters, tired of Washington's divisive ways, want to see the two parties cooperate," wrote Newsweek's Clift. Oddly, though, those voters had recently told Newsweek (Newsweek.com, http://january6th.org/oct2006-newsweek-poll-impeach.html">10/21/06) that 51 percent of them wanted impeachment to be a priority (either high or low) of a new Democratic majority. It's likely that these people, who wouldn't mind seeing Bush tried for high crimes and misdemeanors, aren't particularly eager to see the representatives they sent to Washington working with him to advance his agenda.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2992&printer_friendly=1">More. . .

[yurbud]

69. worth it's own thread in editorials forum

[pat_k]

70. Done. Had posted in . . .

. . .General Discussion: Politics yesterday (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2956271&mesg_id=2956271">link), but didn't get much response.

Here's the link to it in Editorials. Thanks!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x245527

[yurbud]

71. 4 votes since you posted including mine