Rumsfeld will be charged with war crimes in a lawsuit to be filed next week in Germany

[sabra]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/11/hes_out_but_som.html

He's Out, But Some Still Want Rumsfeld to Face War Crimes Charges

Though he is now the former Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld will be charged with war crimes in a lawsuit to be filed next week in Germany.

The Center for Constitutional Rights will file the suit on behalf of a group of Iraqi detainees as well as the so-called 20th hijacker, who is currently being held at Guantanamo Bay.

"The former secretary actually authorized a series of interrogation techniques," said Michael Ratner, President of CCR. "They included the use of dogs, stripping, hooding, stressed positions, chaining to the floor, sexual humiliation and those types of activities."

...

The suit is being brought in Germany because a "universal jurisdiction" law there allows German courts to claim jurisdiction over war crimes even if they were committed outside that country's borders.

[Waya]

1. Great...but......

....don't think the US will extradite Rummy if it comes down to it. All that means is that Rummy can't go to Germany.......

[xiamiam]

4. its a beginning....nt

[chaska]

24. Roberto Gonzales, et al, will also be charged. LINK BELOW

[HereSince1628]

5. Or any country with an agreement for extradition with Germany.

That leaves where...Paraguay?

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Honest to God--Paraguay?

Where the Bushies bought their "retirement estates?"

[Egalitariat]

12. No extraditions for civil suits. And I don't see how Germany

would have jurisdiction anyways.

[conscious evolution]

21. I don't think that war crimes are

considered as civilsuits in Germany.They have a clear understanding of what war crimes are and ,due to post war pressures from the Allies,their Constitution probable has clear guide lines for dealing with such accusations.

[Egalitariat]

22. If "The Center for Constitutional Rights" is the one doing the filing...

as the OP stated, then it is a civil suit. If the German government was doing the filing, I'd think otherwise.

But Germany wouldn't have jurisdiction, so the filing of a criminal action would likely be done at the Hague.

[Senator]

14. No buts ... We ARE "The US" ... (yes, really)

NOTE: It is not my intent to single you out personally, rather I think your post illustrates a pervasive attitude (perhaps near-total) that underlies much of what is wrong with our once-great nation in general and certainly with "the left" specifically. And I realize you're only speaking in the near term, but...

First, it is far more than a "denial of a German visa." If he is charged he can't go any nation party to the treaties. They are treaty-bound to arrest him and bind him over to prosecution at the Hague.

Beyond that, we have the affirmative responsiblilty under the treaties to deal with him here. Even then we may be treaty-bound to bind him over for international prosecution if he remains charged with offenses we failed to punish him for.

But the real objectionable part of your post is the personifying of "the US" as something with its own will and agenda. And the defeatism illuminated by that personification.

WE are the US. The American People.

The same ones who just took the sharp knives of the House and Senate away from the irresponsible neofascists. (Note from this that what I'm saying is neither theoretical nor idealistic.)

And by the same proces, WE decide who has committed war crimes, who has terrorized the nation into war, who has defrauded us - the only sovereign entity here, who has stolen elections, who has made or accepted illegitimate appointments and/or laws, etc...

We decide. We impeach. We remove. We prosecute. We punish.

All of "them" inside the beltway and OUR statehouses are OUR servants or agents if you prefer.

All we need do is demand specific action.

There is nothing "undoable" or that "ain't gonna happen."

Statements like that are just Self-Defeating Prophesies.

---
www.january6th.org

[Kolesar]

17. I think #1 was just being flip and sarcastic

Having a little fun without looking into it.
I like your prose about the "sharp knives".

[Karenina]

26. As I've said so often to friends

on this side of the big pond, "Amis are just a little s-l-o-w on the uptake." Thanks for your post and your patience.

[jayfish]

20. Extradite!?

That's for unpatriotic terra sympathizers. Germany should sneak in some special operators and extraordinarily render his ass to the nearest third-world torture loving country.

Jay

[mod mom]

2. Excellent and deserving news!!!!

[wordpix]

3. we should indict him here, first.

[Senator]

16. We are treaty-bound to do so

That's actually how war crime prosection works. We have the duty to accuse, try, and punish our own war criminals.

Otherwise we are in violation of the treaties.

That's why the soldiers we are currently prosecuting for crime are not in jeopardy from international authority. Unless we fail to meet our obligations under the treaty.

This is also why any lawmaker who signed on to the "War Criminals Protection Act" that just passed may well be culpable for anything that happened after their willful act of "redefining" Geneva.

--

[malaise]

6. Yipee

Waterboarding anyone?

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. I'll volunteer to do that!

GLADLY. We'll see how much HE likes it.

[jmowreader]

25. You better not. You'd enjoy doing it too much.

Also, I read the instructions.

Duct-taping Rummy's arms and legs, sticking him head-first in a 55-gallon drum full of water, and leaving him there until he bloats up and floats to the surface like you were planning to do, DON'T COUNT.

I'm sorry. We can't allow this. Let's just stick him in jail and leave him there.

[raccoon]

7. K & R --this is great news.

[katinmn]

9. Richly deserved. Watch out Cheney!

[progressoid]

11. Rummy can hang around with Kissinger and swap indictment stories

There are a few dozen countries that Henry can't set foot in or he'll be arrested.

[Bush_MUST_Go]

13. I hear they're waiting to greet him with flowers & chocolate in Baghdad.

[City Lights]

15. Bring it on! eom

[liberal N proud]

18. Let's all pitch in and buy him a one way ticket to Nuremberg

[Selatius]

19. Doesn't the executive branch decide if somebody will be extradited to Germany?

Or any country for that matter?

[Xenotime]

23. He will look good in international orange.

[file83]

27. Just because he's "retired" doesn't mean he is no longer guilty. TRY HIM!!!!

I would love nothing more than to watch Rummy get read the sentence: "Guilty. You will be executed by..." fill in the blank. And then watch him realize what a horrible, terrible, evil man he is. A man as arrogant as Rummy (i.e. Saddam) will only be forced to face the reality of his actions by punishment of death.

The higher they are, the harder they should fall.

[pberq]

28. Democracy Now - report on this yesterday with Michael Ratner interview

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/09/1444246

Thursday, November 9th, 2006
War Crimes Suit Prepared against Rumsfeld

. . .
Germany's laws on torture and war crimes permits the prosecution of suspected war criminals wherever they may be found. Now, the president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, Michael Ratner, is returning to Germany to file a new complaint. Michael Ratner joins us in our firehouse studio.

AMY GOODMAN: Michael Ratner joins us in our studio here in New York. Former CIA analyst Mel Goodman and journalist Bob Parry are still in Washington. Michael, why are you headed to Germany in the next few days?

MICHAEL RATNER: Thank you for having me on this issue, Amy. One of the shocking things really so far about the coverage of Rumsfeld’s resignation, there's not a word in any of it about torture. And here, Rumsfeld is one of the architects of the torture program of the United States. I mean, we have those sheets of paper that went to Guantanamo that talk about using dogs and stripping people and hooding people. We have one of our clients, al-Qahtani, who was in Guantanamo. Rumsfeld essentially supervised that entire interrogation, one of the worst interrogations that happened at Guantanamo. He actually authorized a rendition, a fake rendition of al-Qahtani, where flew him -- put a -- blindfolded him, sedated him, put him on an airplane and flew him back to Guantanamo, so he thought he would be in some torture country. So here you have Rumsfeld, one of the architects, not a word about it.

AMY GOODMAN: How do you know that he personally supervised it?

MICHAEL RATNER: There’s actually documents out there, that there’s part of the log that comes out. The log was published of his interrogation. And then there’s a report called the “Schmidt Report,” which was an internal investigation, in which there are statements in there about Rumsfeld being directly involved in the interrogation of al-Qahtani. So this guy has committed -- without any question, this guy has committed war crimes, violations of the Geneva Conventions.

Now, what do we do now? Well, we went to Germany before. Germany dismissed the earlier case on Rumsfeld, partly for political reasons, obviously. Rumsfeld said, “I’m not going back to Germany as long as this case is pending in Germany.” He had to go to the Munich Security Conference. They dismissed the case two days before. What they said when they dismissed it, what they said was, we think the United States is still looking into going up the chain of command, essentially, and looking into what the conduct of our officials are.

In fact, now, two years later, look where we are. One, he has resigned, so any kind of immunity he might have as a vice president from prosecution is out the window. Secondly, of course, as, you know, a little gift package to these guys, you know, our congress with the President has now given immunity to US officials for war crimes. They basically said you can’t be prosecuted for war crimes. That’s in the Military Commission Act. Now, that immunity, like the immunities in Argentina and Chile during the Dirty Wars, does not apply overseas.

So, now you have Germany sitting there with -- there’s no longer an argument the US can possibly prosecute him, because within the US, he’s out. So you have Germany sitting there with a former Secretary of Defense and basically in an immunity situation in the United States. So the chances in Germany have been raised tremendously, I think, and the stakes for Rumsfeld, not only in Germany, but anywhere that guy travels, he is going to be like the Henry Kissinger of the next period.

JUAN GONZALEZ: But then, what would you have to do? You would have to re-file the case before -- is it before an international court in Germany or in German courts?

MICHAEL RATNER: We’re actually going on Tuesday. We’re re-filing it in German courts under their law, which is universal jurisdiction, which basically says a torturer is essentially an enemy of all humankind and can be brought to justice wherever they’re found. So we are going to Germany to try and get them to begin an investigation of Rumsfeld for really a left-out part of this picture, which is the United States has essentially been on the page of torture now for five years.