This Obama bashing is immature, listen to what he is saying. . .

[wndycty]

. . .he will support the filibuster but he is not happy about it. Here is his quote:

"There is an over-reliance on the part of Democrats for procedural maneuvers."

He made this statement after he SAID HE WILL VOTE AGAINST CLOTURE, meaning he supports the filibuster. Now look at this statement further. We are not keeping Alito of the court because we have more votes, given an up or down vote Alito is confirmed. If we are successful in blocking this nomination its not because a majority of Senators were against Alito, it will be because the Dems kept the senate from voting on him. I SUPPORT THIS FILIBUSTER, but dammit admit it sucks that we have to use it. What Obama is saying makes sense we may win or more realistically prolong this battle, but we are doing it on a technicality and that is not a good position to be in.

I SUPPORT THIS FILIBUSTER BUT DAMMIT IT SUCKS TO WIN THIS WAY!

[benburch]

1. I listened and he is wrong.

It does NOT suck to win this way.

I PREFER to win this way.

FUCK the GOP.

[globalvillage]

16. I'm listening to you, Ben

You sound great.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. Our enemy will do anything, procedural, factual, deceitful to win

procedures are there for a reason.

What the hell is he thinking? That refusing to take a valid procedural step will make him Mr. Nice guy and make him friends?
With today's GOP? What is he smoking.

His performance on This Weak was dismal. pathetic.
This is not Obama bashing; this is merely analysis. He is symbolic of the problems our whole party has.
This consistent spinelessness is the problem, dammit.

[William769]

2. Alot of people here are in crash & burn mode

I am of the opinion of keeping most of my thoughts to myself about this until something actually happens. Then I will know who & what to blame.

[xultar]

3. Nope let's purget the Dino now. HE's no good. HEs done NOTHING for us

He's GOP lite.

They love to say that. Then they dont' have to think.

[wndycty]

7. I had a heart attack Xultar, you are being sarcastic. . .right. . .

Don't do that to me. . .LOL

[xultar]

17. I don't mean to put a fright on ya. But you know that's how they sound.

[wndycty]

20. Yup. . .this is silly. . .

. . .let's focus on those we need to turn. I want every Dem to support this filibuster, however I'm not going to resort to name calling and bashing to do it. Some of the holdouts on this issue may be our heros on other issues.

[AZBlue]

60. What always shocks me is how many "liberals" and "Democrats" here on DU

expect, no, require leaders to march in time to their own particular ideas and beliefs. Otherwise they are DINOs and Republican-lite. Seems to me that people who demand that others think exactly like they do are the DINOs and Repubs-lite.

[raysr]

4. How many pukes do

hear saying "It sucks to win this way", if he doesn't like he shouldn't be blabbing to the media. Like it and live with it, or good-bye!

[henslee]

5. He can have his reasons but there is a time to shut up. He's a jr.

senator. Clam up and show some solidarity/respect with/for the cagey veterans.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. You are trying to limit his freedom of speech as a senator?

That seems a bit absurd to me. Since he is actually against cloture, that's even more absurd to me. He is an incredibly talented voice within our party right now and I don't think there is much on a logical plane that could be used against his statement. I think it was fairly accurate and that he is doing the right thing, as usual, by knowing the filibuster is the right thing to do right now but that it is unfortunate that is what has to be resorted to.

I for one would never want to squelch the free speech and opinion of any senator, junior or not.

[henslee]

21. Not limiting his FOS, just exercising mine.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Saying Forcefully He Should Shut Up and That he doesn't have as much right

to speak because he is a jr, is in my opinion your intent to squelch his free speech because you don't like what he has to say.

And I understand you have the right to express that opinion and I did not state that you shouldn't say such things. I just said that the point was absurd, not that you couldn't make an absurd point.

[BlueManDude]

6. The GOP Sens will always line up behind a Bush nominee

regardless of whether that person is qualified. This makes a fillibuster a necessity. The chance to show how Alito will be a negative presence on the court was during the hearings (nice hat stunt Joe Biden) - but the essence of minority power is denying cloture. The GOP used it all the time when Clinton was Prez.

Obama's remarks are ill-timed.

[Gman]

8. Kinda like "If Dean isn't the nominee...

I'll vote for Nader." Same mentality. They don't just want to win, they want it their way or nothing at all. What these young, naive and idealistic activists need to learn (and will eventually learn) is that you never ever fall in love with a politician because they will eventually break your heart. You line up the votes any way you can. It doesn't matter how you got the votes nor does the politician's rationale and public reasons for voting with you matter. You give them the latitude to handle it their way. You got the vote. Now STFU.

And you're right, but for the filibuster rule, Alito is a justice.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. I agree with him as well. Do what we gotta do, but it is a shame.

I have nothing but the world of respect for Senator Obama. He consistently speaks and acts with integrity, honor and good values. There have been a couple of times I didn't support completely what he said, but overall he is one hell of a Senator and I'm proud to have him on our side.

[wndycty]

12. Exactly

:kick:

[Moochy]

10. Sucks to win on a procedural vote?

Yeah Obama, I wish we werent in the minority party and were not faced with a unified republican bloc of senators.
The reason there is an over-reliance on procedural maneuvers is due to the fact that nobody can get a bill past committee on any issues. Conyers basement hearings come to mind? Total republican control.

I respectfully sumbit that you should get over your misgivings, this is the way the game of politics is played. Parliamentary tactics are what we have as options. Obama is just pandering public who is sold a bill of goods if they think that parliamentary tactics are in some way less "honorable" or somesuch claptrap.

He's playing right into the "up or down" vote frame, by acknowledging his distaste for a filibuster as a tactic.
But good on him for "holding his nose" and following his party's leaders.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. And I wish John Kerry was president as he should be since they

freakin stole it but so what. You can't change things. JUST FIGHT OR DIE TRYING! I know I'll do whatever I can to keep fascism from my country and Obama and anyone else who loves this country should do the same!

[BlueManDude]

11. The GOP did it all the time and didn't wring their hands about it

what does he expect? that they're gonna convince some gopers to defect? ain't gonna happen.

[wndycty]

15. So now we live down to the GOP standards. . .

. . .he is doing what he needs to do to fight Bush, but he would rather do it by having a majority of the votes as opposed to preventing vote. Is there something wrong with him for wanting it that way?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. that is too simplistic.

Mere majorities never are the final answer.
2/3s of the congress is necessary for some vote.
the president has a veto.
the VP has a vote in a tied senate.
A minority is permitted to tie up business to prevent greater wrongs and the madness of crowds.

If your position is Obama's then he simply does not understand his roll as senator. It is not to make friends and influence people, it is to protect the constitution. it means taking brave steps, rather than pandering to the right. It means taking a stand regardless of the opposition if that is what is required.

Obama is scared of his own shadow. I am thinking more often that he is way out of his league.

[BlueManDude]

36. they need to win 7 elections in the next 24 hours to get the votes

i understand his point about showing "the people" what the fight is about, but it really is naiive. the citizens of this country are busy trying to survive and live their lives - it's up to their leaders to represent their vlues and protect their interest. do you think some single mom somewhere trying to make ends meet has the time to get involved in this fight? obama represents her even though she may not even know it and it's up to him to stop alito. there ain't gonna be a grandiose march on washington. what there is is naked politics and 40 dems can stop this man. those are the rules.

[wndycty]

37. And when that single mother hears the Democrats stood in the way . . .

. . .of a vote, she will then think that all the Dems do is stand in the way of progress. You and I know that is wrong and that the single mother is better off without Alito on the Supreme Court, however she will not have the time to understand the complexity of the issue. Keep in mind Obama is voting against cloture.

[BlueManDude]

38. The GOP doesn't care what the WaPo or the NYT Times says

why should we? we know keeping him off the court is then right thing to do. the media spin after should be irrelevant. the gop never lets it bother them. hell practically everything they do is unpopular - but they believe in it and they do it anyway.

i mean, obama is an intelligent man - i'm sure he can construct a sound bite 3 sentence answer as to why fillibustering alito is good for the country.

[globalvillage]

14. It's not a good position to be in, but

the filibuster is the only tool we have at our disposal as long as the Repubs march in lockstep. IMO, people like Specter, who are supposed to be moderate Republicans, are voting for Alito because bush* nominated him, not because they believe it's the right thing to do. So, until we take back the Senate, it's all we've got.
I don't see the filibuster as a 'technicality'. It's the minority party's guarantee that they can still be heard. It's all we've got.

I disagree with Obama. The filibuster is a legitimate tool, not some sort of trick if that's what he's implying.

I'm listening to Ben Burch right now talking about this very thing on The Young Turks, BTW.

[emulatorloo]

22. thank you - filibuster is a legitimate tool against the tyranny of the

republican majority.

[wndycty]

30. No one is saying the filibuster is not legitimate. . .

. . .but if temporarily blocking a SCOTUS nominee through a procedural move is the best we can do, we are in sad f'ing shape.

[Wordie]

18. Keep this thread kicked-too many confusing posts on Obama's position. This

one lays it out well.

[TahitiNut]

19. Let's talk about "procedural maneuvers"

It's a "procedural maneuver" to disallow 'evidence' obtained by torture in a criminal trial.
It's a "procedural maneuver" to inform a person of their rights when arrested.

The filibuster is a very weak protection against the TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY ... and this is the ESSENCE of a liberal democracy! You can bet your sweet ass that the wealthy (a minority) employ every fucking "procedural maneuver" in the book to further entrench the entitlements and privileges of wealth!

The Senate itself is a legislative body established by the "procedural maneuver" of granting states two Senators irrespective of the population of the state. We redistrict inside the states to go through the contortions of "one man, one vote" ... so why not change the boundaries of the states to achieve the same thing?

If there's a bias in the Constitution, it's in the 'protection' of ONE MINORITY, the wealthy, against the tyrannies of the majority. That's a very limited kind of Justice ... one which MUST be afforded to all minority groups!

The fact of the matter is that Senate Democrats represent a MAJORITY of the people in the U.S. It's a "procedural maneuver" to dilute their power within the Senate to that of a minority.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PBass]

35. Well obviously I'd prefer to defeat Alito with an "upperdown" vote too

but we don't have that luxury. For one thing, the GOP Senators vote as a block, with pro-choice Repubs willing to violate their own campaign platforms as being "pro-choice" in order to vote in solidarity.

Also, the Democrats are under-represented precisely because many Dem candidates are wimpy during their campaigns, they pull their punches, and do not "inspire" voters. An attempt at a fillibuster is a good way to start making amends for that, IMO.

[depakid]

23. "...over-reliance on the part of Democrats"- LOL

Has this guy completely lost touch with reality?

Has he been asleep for the past 5 years while Republicans have abused the dems mercilessly with procudural rules?

Yet another of the 99 reasons Dems have been losing- and will continue to lose. With attitudes like this, I think people can rightly question whether they're fit to lead at all.

[Mass]

25. The problem is that he is wrong

The Democrats are not in over-reliance of procedural methods. As no Republican (or nearly none) is ready to vote with them even as they disagree with Alito while we have a handful of Democrats ready to vote with Bush, there are only two solutions: not fight or stage a filibuster.

The filibuster may be a procedural maneuver, but it is one to be used in extreme cases and if Alito is not an extreme case, what will be?

Obama is right in one sense. This filibuster should have started earlier and be lead by the senate leaders. Unfortunately, they did not do their job. Blaming those who had to do it for them, as Obama did, does not help.

Also, what was this statement that the Democrats were not ready to work with the Republicans? If Obama does not see that the divisiveness is brought by the Republicans, he has a real problem.

I tend to like Obama, but these types of statements do not help showing that the Democrats have strong convictions. Yes, many Democrats want to work with Republicans, but how do you do that when the Republicans do not want to negotiate?

[fooj]

26. It sounds pretty clear to me...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060129/ap_on_go_su_co/alit...

"We need to recognize, because Judge Alito will be confirmed, that, if we're going to oppose a nominee that we've got to persuade the American people that, in fact, their values are at stake," Obama said.

Peace.

[mac56]

27. "Dogpile on the rabbit! Dogpile on the rabbit!"

Remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon?

That's what all this Obama-bashing reminds me of. Talk about Looney Tunes...

[depakid]

34. maybe he should act more like the junior senator that he is

and stop making stupid comments. Then maybe he wouldn't get "bashed." A MAJOR part of being a successful and powerful senator is knowing how to use parliamentary procedural to your advantage and WIN on the issues.

Someone might want to pass that along to Harry Reid, too.

[omega minimo]

31. So he's playing both sides

[John Q. Citizen]

32. If the stakes are worth it, then it's worth using the rules to do what

is necessary. Obstruction is Patriotic!

This is the same Senate (for the most part) who swallowed the bush war in Iraq hook line and sinker.

We can't allow our Dems to go down the same sad sorry road again based on political calculus and fear of being called obstructionists.

This is the reason there are "technicalities" written into the rules, so when a minority is so outraged and unwilling to bend to the unreasonable and unwise will of the majority, the minority has these tools at their disposal to effect redress.

Obama is right to support the filibuster. Good on him, even if he has to complain about it.

[KoKo]

39. I think what got many DU'ers Upset...was.."I'm not happy about it."

Given all the Great Press Obama has gotten and his support here on DU...many folks thought this was a "cave in" to DLC.

And...given our history...how do we know he's not a Joe Biden Clone? An Opportunist just waiting to USE us Dems for his own purposes.

We have NO Commitment from Obama as to what he's supporting here. What he "Ran On" to get Elected might be very different than what his personal ambitions are. So it's good to go after him and hold his "feet to the fire" on this issue lest he stray on all the other issues important to Democrats who have been "in the wilderness of the DLC" for well over a Decade and beyond now. That's what I'm thinking, here. :shrug:

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flpoljunkie]

46. Excellent point, olderbroder.

Must we remind Democratic senators that Alilto received not one vote in the Judiciary Committee from them.

This ought to be an excellent starting point from which to make the case that the Democrats will use everything in their power, including "stalling" tactics like the filibster, to insure that they did everything they could to keep Samuel Alito from serving on the Supreme Court.

Even David Broder, "dean" of the Washington press corps, derisively described Alito as a "company man"--the type of justice we definitely do no need at this point in our history with Bush/Cheney "imperial" presidency.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. At least ScAlito made it out of committee! That's more than we can say

about 61 of Clinton's nominees! Weren't the committee pocket filibusters "procedural maneuvers?" I do believe they were! We're only playing by THEIR rules and Barak was out of line today and his timing SUCKED. He should have saved his Dem bashing for when this is all over.

It DOESN'T SUCK TO WIN THIS WAY! IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE CAN WIN BECAUSE WE'RE UP AGAINST A BUNCH OF FASCIST RAT BASTARDS WHO DO NOT PLAY BY THE RULES!

Sorry, wndy.:(

[wndycty]

45. This is where you don't get it. . .

. . .he is VOTING FOR THE FILIBUSTER. Do we want to be in a position to filibuster all the time or do we want to be in a position to win? He understands that a filibuster is necessary, however he does not like it. Having to filibuster means that we ARE FUCKING POWERLESS to stop this shit it means we don't have the votes to defeat this nomination. Its the RIGHT THING TO DO, but its the wrong position to be in.

And yes IT FUCKING SUCKS TO WIN THIS WAY, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE MOST LIKELY NOT GOING TO WIN!

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. I know he's supporting the filibuster at the same time he talks out

of the other side of his mouth and slaps the Democrats for doing what NEEDS to be done.

CALL THEIR BLUFF! Make the repukes use the Nuclear option! THEY will pay for that because the MAJORITY of people are opposed to their using it. The Democrats are doing the right thing and it's not our FAULT that we're in the position we're in....right or wrong.

It doesn't suck to win this way. WTF is a filibuster for? WTF deal was it the gang of 14 made? Was it to save the filibuster? YES! It was! They saved the filibuster for what?????!!!!! Legislation? Well, damn. That's what we end up with ANYWAY if we filibuster ScAlito and the repukes use their idiotic Nuclear Option! SO, WTF is the difference?

In case you haven't noticed...THE FILIBUSTER IS ALL WE HAVE LEFT. THE DEMS HAVE BEEN SHUT OUT OF COMMITTEE MEETINGS, THEY AREN'T ALLOWED TO ADD AMENDMENTS TO LEGISLATION, THE REPUKES WRITE THEIR BILLS IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT WITH LOBBYISTS, THE DEMS HAVE BEEN RELEGATED TO THE DAMN BASEMENT TO HOLD "UNOFFICIAL FORUM HEARINGS".....WTF ARE THEY SUPPOSE TO DO? ROLL OVER AND LET THESE RAT BASTARDS DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT TO OUR CONSTITUTION AND WHAT'S LEFT OF THIS COUNTRY?

The filibuster is ALL WE HAVE LEFT. What does Obama not understand about that?

[wndycty]

48. Again you are not paying attention to what he said and just reacting. . .

. . .Obama know that the filibuster is all that we have left, however he views the filibuster as a sign of weakness. We have no damn power and this is the only thing we have left and it should not be that way and he is pissed. It seems like you are glad that this is all we have left. He is pissed because we have to filibuster, the GOP will use the nuclear option, Alito gets in and now the GOP has made it so that a simple majority (51) is all that is need to get a judge confirmed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. Who ever said they had enough support for the nuclear option?

Last I heard Warner, McCain and Hagel were against the nuclear option. Call their bluff and we WIN. The Dems can filibuster FOREVER if the 41 stay united. By that time the sheeple may wake the hell up and see how dangerous the man is. PLUS, we can call for "unanimous consent" and they have to read every freakin' word of a 13,000 page bill after bill after bill after bill.. The Democrats can fight the nuclear option too, but I don't think the repukes have enough support for it...that's why they have been so "in your face" with it. REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY? They don't have enough support for it. IMCPO

NO ONE is happy about being left with nothing but a filibuster to stop these rat bastards, but we have to do what we have to do and if that's use the filibuster, then so be it and Obama needs to accept that fact too.

[wndycty]

50. You are too funny "Obama needs to accept that fact too"

Explain that. . .if he is supporting the filibuster he has obviously accepted the fact. I guess people need to bash him so they look for reasons where there are none.

[in_cog_ni_to]

51. Why is that funny? You said.....

however he views the filibuster as a sign of weakness

I assumed he didn't accept the fact that it's all we have because he sees it as a "sign of weakness" instead of a legitimate procedural maneuver.

Do you honestly believe if the repukes were in our shoes...tables turned, they wouldn't be doing the same thing? Of course they would be, but the difference would be...ALL THE REPUKES WOULD BE ON THE SAME PAGE AND NOT OUT IN THE MEDIA BADMOUTHING THEIR PARTY.

[wndycty]

52. It is a sign of weakness, a sign of being in the minority party. . .

. . .you do realize he is not saying we shouldn't filibuster, he is saying we should not be in the position of having to filibuster.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. yes, but that is not how he came across on This Week this morning.

It sounded more like a lecture to me. Not a good thing to do on the eve of the cloture vote.

He should have spent his time convincing all those voters WHY we have to filibuster, maybe explain why ScAlito shouldn't be confirmed? Instead, he spent his time complaining about something we all already know...we're the minority party and because of that we have to filibuster.

[wndycty]

55. So you did not here him say this

-snip-
"I will be supporting the filibuster because I think Judge Alito, in fact, is somebody who is contrary to core American values, not just liberal values," Obama said. "When you look at his decisions - in particular, during times of war - we need a court that is independent and is going to provide some check on the executive branch."
-snip-

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/13743747.htm

[in_cog_ni_to]

56. Of course I heard that and he should have said more.

He should have stated every reason why the man shouldn't be confirmed,. Instead, he wasted precious minutes on TV bashing the party and a legitimate procedural maneuver..

and criticized Democrats for failing to persuade Americans to take notice of the court's changing ideological face.
"The Democrats have to do a much better job in making their case on these issues," Obama said Sunday on ABC News' "This Week<snip>

The paragraph you just posted:

<snip>
I will be supporting the filibuster because I think Judge Alito, in fact, is somebody who is contrary to core American values, not just liberal values," Obama said. "When you look at his decisions - in particular, during times of war - we need a court that is independent and is going to provide some check on the executive branch."
But in the next breath, Obama criticized the <snip>

and the paragraph immediately following that one:

But in the next breath, Obama criticized the merits of a filibuster. The senator has worked to avoid being portrayed as walking in lock step with Democratic partisans, but at the same time he is seeking to be responsive to a core constituency.<snip>

I hope he doesn't think his "core constituency" is as ignorant as the repuke sheeple are?

[wndycty]

58. Who is his core constituency?

It really is funny people are just nit picking on this, meanwhile there are a few Senators that need to picked up. But if you want to go ahead and bash him because he spoke the truth so be it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. The people who elected him?

If he doesn't tread carefully here, he will lose one, ME. I had my say on Obama this morning at what? 10:00 AM? You started this thread so I thought I would give another 2-3-4 cents worth of opinion. The man needs to stop being a "sensible center DLCer" because he WILL lose his left base if he continues down this same path. Just a suggestion.

[wndycty]

67. The people of Chicago, Oak Park, Gurnee, Marion, East St. Louis, Champaign

Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, Effingham, Mt. Vernon, Dixon, Pontiac, Lake Forest, Berwyn, Cicero, Stickney, Oaklawn, Elgin, Sugar Grove, Addison, Kankakee, Normal, Urbana, Macomb, Jacksonville, Dekalb, Rockford, Peoria, Decatur, Aurora, Park Forest, Richton Park, Olympia Fields, Sycamore, Galena, Waukegan, North Chicago, Vernon Hills, Skokie, Evanston, University Park, Homewood, Flossmoor, Matteson, Glenwood, Funks Grove, Towanda, Joliet, Lemont, Oak Brook, Burr Ridge, Crete, Steger, Manhattan, Phoenix, Elmwood Park, Melrose Park, Rosemont, Wheaton, Calumet City, Highland Park, Deerfield, West Chicago, Hazel Crest, Carbondale, Loves Park, Romeoville, Bolingbrook, Chicago Heights, Naperville, Rock Island, Quincy, Peotone, Frankfort, Morris, Braidwood, Blue Island, Alton, Edwardsville, etc., etc. etc.

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. And your point is? n/t

[wndycty]

70. You talk about Obama's core constituency and then the people who voted. .

. . .for him, however if you look at all of the places he represents I doubt his core constituency can be identified by ideology.

[davsand]

59. Windy, you DO realize that some feel compelled to bash Obama?

He's in about the same position as Cassandra, plus he's a Democrat which immediately adds another target (remember--we Dems eat our young.) A lot of folks on here are playing the "la-la-la-la game." Hearing any kind of reminder that we are currently a minority party just won't be acceptable.

Obama is further handicapped by the fact that he's a member of the party that depends a great deal on the attitude that we don't have to prove shit to anybody. "Any THINKING person will immediately grasp that we are morally superior, thus, they will vote for Dems" seems to be the general refrain a lot of the time.

We all know how well THAT works, generally. The good news is we can be buried on our high moral ground.

Thanks for refusing to let the silliness here pass unanswered, but I have to tell you, I do think it may be a wasted effort in some cases. The truth hurts sometimes, and I think there are a lot of folks who'd rather not even hear it.

Obama is pissed we are the minority party and I hear him talking about working to change that with a focused message and some strategy. Not too bad coming out of the new kid on the block, IMO. I agree with you--Obama did fine today.



Laura

[wndycty]

64. Thanks. . .

. . .btw it was great hanging out with you and kevsand the other week.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. He's still wrong

THIS IS THE FIGHT! If you like fascism go ahead and support him. But Obama is WRONG.

[olderbroder]

43. Vote in the filibuster comment poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=266275

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

53. It's not HOW you win

It's THAT you win.

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. ESPECIALLY THIS battle! It's way too important.

IMCPO

[Perky]

61. It is HOW you win as well

If the american public sees this as partisan rather than principled. we might win the battle...but the war is mor important.


What is the war?

It is not ultimately about protecting the nation from extremist, fascists, neocons and zealots.

It is about preserving the Constitution, the rule of law and an independent and thoughtful judiciary for the next generation.

Obama's point is that we have poorly framed the debate and it looks far more partisan then principled. The American people want more out of their leaders.

I suspect the way this will be played out is that Kerry will be accused of rallying the base for another run in 2008 rather than his concern about the court becoming a place where Ideology trumps the Constitution

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. Then perhaps Obama should have spent his 10-15 minutes of air time

explaining the "war" is about preserving the constitutional, rule of law and thoughtful judiciary instead of what he wasted his time saying. Do you think?

He should have talked about the 10 year old girl who was strip searched and ScAlito said it was fine and dandy. He should have talked about the 15 year old boy who was shot in the back of the head by cops and ScAlito said was it fine and dandy. He should should have talked about the mentally disabled man who was gang raped with a broom handle and ScAlito said it was fine and dandy. THAT is the stuff he should have been throwing out across the airwaves today.

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama has heard from more than a few Democrats today after his appearance today.

The LAST THING WE NEEDED right now was for a Democrat to toss out a snarky remark about the filibuster. We get enough of that shit from the repukes.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

72. If this is lost, then so is the war.

Remember, it was the supremes who performed the coup that installed Boy Blunder in the Oval Office to begin with. Imagine now if Alito gets in there just what they will begin doing. Thus we need to use all the tools at our command WHILE WE CAN- before those tools are wrenched from us forever.

Obama started out as a this-minute prettyboy, and it appears it's gotten to the point where he believes his own press releases. The fact that he's giving in even to the point he is, is an indication that he's getting a fast lesson in reality right about now (and he's far from being the only one being taken to school this week). This is a GOOD thing. If we're successful here, everybody will be paying much more attention to us from now on. If we lose, we're as good as discredited (and I'm talking about the entire party, not just the DU bloggers).

We must use everything at our disposal. Damn the pleasantries and politenesses. It's time to draw blood.

[AZBlue]

63. He's right. It would be a win and a loss.

I know that's not exactly what he's saying, word for word, but maybe that's his intention. That's certainly what it will be. It will be a huge win to block Alito. And, it's the right thing to do and should be done.

However, this will be spun bigger than most issues by the Republican machine and will be used against us come November. We'll just need to be ready for that.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. You don't want to go there with me. TRUST ME. Do you want my list

of where I've been and what I've done for this party? Maybe how much money I've donated? We can go there if you want to, but if I were you, I wouldn't. You don't know me and it sounds like you don't know many other DUers who aren't in the city. Which, BTW, not everyone can pick up and drive to Chicago for every little gig you have. Some of us have families to take care of and other obligations.

Just because the man is from Illinois, doesn't mean I have to support what he did today. It was shameful.

[Moochy]

73. Bashing?

Bashing on this thread? Really? having read this thread and you think it's bashing?
:eyes:

[dusmcj]

71. it's called a 55-45 majority

That's the position we're in, on the short end. If we don't like it, let's do better at the polls this November. That's an admonition to both the rank-and-file, and the party leadership.

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.

This is the way it can be done. This is the way it should be done. This is the only shot we have. Obama, it doesn't matter how you "look at it"...it's the only shot we got with this kind of stacking of the legislative branches. Be a man and do what we voted you in to do.

Thank You.