The strangest thing just happened at my office...do I need a tinfoil hat?

[YOY]

OK so business as usual in my little small IT firm in Arlington, VA right? Then we get a knock on our door. I answer it and two woman both relatively young and fairly attractive smile (read: nonthreatening) and identify themselves as State Department Special Agents with badges of course. They claimed to be investigating reports that our office space was being used as a residential space...um...er...ok. I tell them that of course we're not that, but a simple small business government contractor, but we'd be happy to answer any questions they may have. Why not? :shrug:

Just a little background. We're a small office (2 people working full time and about 3 rooms including the meeting room.) For this office building my boss and I often discuss politics, he's a Bengali American Muslim and I'm a jaded Roman Catholic Christian, but we're both lefties through and through. Many of our conversations involves bashing the Shrubbery, current events, and religion. Our walls are paper thin, and our neighbors are A Christian lobbyist group (the kind that scare us both) and my boss often fears that they can overhear us...my reaction is usually "Let them! They might learn something!"

So we let them in and they have a camera and ask to take photos to support their files. I adamantly refuse and explain that we are developing a product for a client at this moment and will not let any information about this be recorded by non-office personnel (we are and the marketing materials and developmental work is all around us), but we will show them the office and explain that this obviously is not anything of the sort and that we are a legitimate business and we are registered on all the proper channels and there is most certainly no-one using this as a residential facility. We explain that the former residents here (a tourism board for a middle eastern country) never had their mail forwarded and we still get it on occasion. They seemed to hint that this may or may not be who they were investigating.

They leave and leave us their cards (at least one of them does.) My boss and I just looked at each other and said "What the fuck was that???" Should I be wigged? Because I definitely am! :tinfoilhat:

We talk to government folks all the time: DoD and Civilian! Including people doing background checks of prior employees, so it is not as if we are in any way not used to talking to the government agents! There was just something strange about this...very strange...

[mattclearing]

1. "a tourism board for a middle eastern country" seems to be the key here.nt

[YOY]

8. They are long gone by 3 years

We don't even have a forwarding address. We sometimes receive their mail!

Have I mentioned that my company is owned by (2/3rds anyway) by American muslims? Does that sound like something they might investigate?

[mattclearing]

17. The Government is incredibly slow and inefficient, you know.

Either way, why the State Department???

[YOY]

19. That is what makes it all the more strange

The one agenst card reads: US DoS Dimplomatic Security Service, Her Name, Secial Agent, Criminal Investigations Division....

[SmokingJacket]

22. I think they make a habit of investigating companies owned by

Muslims. My instincts (which are not ALWAYS accurate!) are telling me they're going to be doing even more of this in the future.

[katty]

36. yeah, answer nothing, call your legal reps and/or ACLU

[incapsulated]

44. And then add a few calls from nosy neighbors...

And they show up. Your tax dollars at work.

I wouldn't worry unless they come back.

Ok, maybe I would worry I was being watched and tapped.

Never mind, get a tinfoil hat. :tinfoilhat:

[YOY]

49. If they come back I'll be calling the ACLU

We don't have the time or money to mess about with BS like this. I will mention our neighbors who clearly don't understand the separation between church and state...


If they are stupid and criminal enough to tape us, they will find nothing except an ACLU lawsuit against them...

[incapsulated]

51. I hope you don't have to

I hope they don't come back. It would freak me out, badly, to get a visit like that. And fighting the government on something like this would be very difficult and you would lose your contracts.

This is what this country has come to.

[YOY]

52. I have already contacted the ACLU

and they will be sending information. If the problem persists we will try and use their help. If they think we're bad people, then we would lose our contracts anyways...

Oh Jesus, please tell me I'm being paranoid I don't need this...

[incapsulated]

67. I wish I could :(

I wish I could tell you you're just being paranoid. But this is life, now. Big Brother is for real and we have to protect ourselves while we still can.

:(

[NVMojo]

2. More intrusion brought to you by the Bush government and fundies!

[lectrobyte]

3. Office space used as a residence? That doesn't sound like

a state dept. matter to me. And taking pictures? WTF indeed. Very bizarre.

[Carni]

59. That's definitely an issue for the city or county people

In my area that would be a code violation not something the state dept should have anything to do with!

[jilln]

4. Why did you answer any questions?

I realize it's intimidating, but why help them? And do you really believe the State Department investigates housing issues? Please.

On edit: FYI to everyone, the only person who can force you to answer questions is a judge. If the FBI, police, State Dept. or whoever else shows up at your door you have every legal right to refuse to answer them. You only have to let them in if they have a warrant.

[YOY]

15. We work with Government folks all the time and always cooperate with

requests. They are the client and if any part of the client thinks you non-trustworthy then you might not get the contract! We work for the DoD on occasion and do not want a bad rep at all! Beyond that there is nothing funny going on at our office at all so to coin a freeper phrase "we have nothing to hide."

They weren't intimidating at all, actually a little charming if you could beleive that...but we're still suspicious.

[endarkenment]

29. That is fine but...

as soon as they lied to you ("we are state dept investigating if this is being used as residential space") you should have politely shown them the door and explained, if asked, that they lied and that liars are not welcome in either your business or residential premisis.

[YOY]

32. However, what if they were doing what they claimed to be doing?

Then calling them liars would be pointless, impeding their investigation, and wasteing government tax dollars.

What if they were telling the truth?

When you work with the government you jump when they tell you to jump. That's how we keep business coming in and the customer happy.

[endarkenment]

35. You explain to me how the state dept.

has any authority to investigate zoning violation in Arlington Virgina.

[YOY]

37. I would if I could...but why not DHS?

Why use the State Department?

[endarkenment]

39. DHS has no authority here either.

The feds might have some authority to enforce DC zoning regs, but they certainly have none in Arlington.

[YOY]

43. Look, we both (my boss and I) knew something was up

We could have forced them to get a warrant and turn the place upside down and take away important documents and machinery that we need for work (while they investigate and return it months later) as they sometimes do for 'criminal investigations.' We cannot afford that. This time is not very small business friendly and we work hard to get what we can.

In then end we just let them in, told them that we are just a small IT contractor and we have the contacts to prove it. If they continue to harass us then we will lose money and time...we really don't have that much business going for us now to do just that.

[endarkenment]

38. Also I said 'politely show them the door'.

I would have explained why I was showing them the door only if they asked. My explanation would also have been polite, but it would also clearly indicate that I didn't believe one word that came out of their mouths. I expect in this case they would not have asked. I understand your need to maintain cordial relations with 'the gov' but that doesn't mean allowing anyone misrepresenting themselves as government authorities to waltz through your premisis. That is total bullshit for a multitude of reasons.

By all means be polite as you send them packing.

I am a firm believer in not giving anyone I don't know any information that they are not clearly entitled to have.

[formercia]

58. but if you lie to them it's a crime

so don't say anything false, say nothing if you can and tell them you attorney will be in touch.

[DrunkenMaster]

5. yikes!

the more nonthreatening they look, the more dangerous they are. Be careful.

[wakeme2008]

6. did you watch their hands at all times. nt

[YOY]

18. Bugs?

We don't have anything to bug that we showed them. Just the doorways into the rooms. We didn't leave them alone for a minute. I looked under the tables and desks that we passed and I didn't see anything odd...

[ret5hd]

7. call the state dept...

(NOT the number on the card they left) and verify their ID.

may be casing you for a robbery.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. Papers please.... where are your papers!!!! nt.

[Marnieworld]

10. Why would the State Dept be investigating that anyway?

Residential use vs. commericial use of office space? This is a State Dept issue? I think it's more to do with the previous tenants than your neighbors but who knows nowadays. I'd be freaked too.

[Stanchetalarooni]

11. Don't think that your "cover story" will fool anyone at the Fed level.

Much less fool us here at DU.
You had me going for a while there.
I almost believed that you were an actual IT firm, whatever the hell that is.
Go run your scam somewhere else.
Lefties?
Right!




(chuckle, chuckle)

[EFerrari]

12. You did the right thing. Now call the ACLU. Maybe they can

point you.

That was a fishing expedition and it's better to get ahead of it. Remember, they arrested vegan protestors for writing down a license plate number. Deadly terrorist pencil wielders.

[raccoon]

42. Huh??

"they arrested vegan protestors for writing down a license plate number. "

[EFerrari]

45. There was a thread in LBN about a group of vegans

who were protesting outside a meat packing plant. One of them noticed an unmarked car that looked to be a narc. She wrote down the license plate number and refused to give up the piece of paper.

She, her father, others were arrested. The ACLU sued and won all their legal costs, IIRC.

[raccoon]

48. Well, at least it had a happy ending. nt

[carolinalady]

13. You been makin' those out of country phone calls again?

Shame Shame.

[YOY]

23. Actually since my Bosses wife is in Bangladesh

and a sometimes partner of ours is in India...Yes we have!

[carolinalady]

46. uh oh.........

:scared: :hide:

Wait a minute..call the ACLU maybe they can use you for their lawsuit. I was being cute before, but seriously, you should call them. Other people may have had a similar experience. Good Luck.

[Carni]

60. Hey have you googled the agents names & the phone number?

Sorry this sounds bogus to me--I find it odd (not to sound sexist) that they would send a team of two women, typically the feds send out a man and a woman together but not normally two women.

Maybe I am wrong but this sounds more like some bullshit scam than it does federal agents casing the joint.

[YOY]

64. Yes...they check out according to a google search...

n/t

[Carni]

66. Ok that is just friggin weird

Does the website look legit?

[RufusEarl]

14. Call the phone number

on the business card that was left. See if this passes the sniff test. It's a place to start, but I would check it out. And as for as being wigged out, hell I stay wigged out!

[YOY]

24. I did and it does and I still am

[Jim Lane]

30. Calling the phone number proves little

This is probably government snooping, but it might be industrial espionage -- private spies pretending to be government agents. I'd call the State Department (from the phone book, not assuming the business card to be genuine) and try to verify that State has such a unit and it did send people out to your place.

[Carni]

61. GOOGLE THE NUMBER & AGENTS NAMES! eom

[YOY]

65. Oh yeah...they're there alright

and furthermore I know where the one went to High School

[uppityperson]

27. call the State Dept phone number, not their number.

very odd. very very odd. Please let us know if you find out anything or anything comes of it. Check in regularly so we know when/if you get disappeared.

Edited to add, State Dept checking out a housing question?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. "Ihre Papiere gefallen". Sounds better in the original German.

[JuniperLea]

20. I'd call the number on the card

Just to see what the deal is.

Very weird.

[Zenlitened]

21. State Department Special Agents investigating local zoning law issues?

:tinfoilhat:

:hide:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. That's my first question too

I'd tell them to send someone from the local municipal government if they were so concerned about possibly using office space as a residence.

:wtf:

[Carni]

63. Yeah In fact he should CALL THE LOCAL MUNICIPAL GOV

Ask them if they have received any complaints regarding same matter, or were contacted by the state Dept--see what the local Gov says.

[obreaslan]

25. Just a friendly reminder....

WE'RE WATCHING!

[kenny blankenship]

26. Loving their neighbors like they usually do,

your Christyun neighbors told the polizei that you were running an Al Quaeda safehouse.

[YOY]

28. That's my boss's theory

and I am inclined to beleive it... We don't bother them and we were sincerely hoping that we're jsut being paranoid. If it's true I'll be blasting "American Jesus" by Bad Religion at the top of my speakers' volume.

[im10ashus]

31. We still have freedom of speech.

At least we did this morning. No telling what's happened since. Your neighbors shouldn't be listening to your conversations anyway. Also, I would have asked for a warrant if they want to wander past the front door. No kidding. It's your legal right.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Did they have a warrant to search your place?

I don't think badges count.

[YOY]

34. No, but you can be polite and let them see if you so choose

We are well aware that warrants are needed to search a place. They didn't even search, but simply came in and looked and left.

[pitohui]

40. i wouldn't be wigged

i used to help at a friend's store and i was amazed how often gov't employees came snooping around at various locations

one place i could understand, it was previously rented by a meth manufacturing plant, pretty nice one too, w. a swimming pool and all

but sometimes they were just snooping around for "revenue enhancement," you know, wanting to see insurance, business license etc. so if you were operating a business and didn't have any of that they could write a ticket

and there was supposed to be code enforcement, at one point my friend was actually living illegally in one of his stores, and they would check, but there was no obvious place to sleep, as he used a sleeping bag he rolled up every day, so they never caught him

i wouldn't be all tin-foil, since snoops have snooped since at least the 1980s and prob. earlier for all i know

maybe someone from the tourism agency was living at the business before it completely collapsed and went out of business, and maybe the officials just now got around to checking out a complaint from a neighborhood, heck, the complaint could be months or years out of date

[endarkenment]

41. whoever they were, they were lying

The state department doesn't do zoning violations.

[EFerrari]

47. Right. But those can get you in the door. n/t

[B Calm]

50. Next time ask them for their SEARCH WARRANT!

[kenny blankenship]

53. They will phone it in from the parking lot and come right back

after getting the warrant faxed to the car. The only difference is that now, having been made to wait, they will have it in for you, and are probably growing convinvced of the idea that you've done something wrong.

That's not just the way it is in this kind of case, but everywhere in Police State America. Standing on your illusory, vestigial "rights" as a free citizen and declining a police search will in itself be grounds for probable cause to search-- and to keep on searching until they find an unlicensed copy of some software, or too many lights plugged into an AC socket, or something or anything.

[formercia]

55. Time for a security camera.

They were probably civilian contractors ala Blackwater mold. Iraq is just a training ground for chasing us, if they even existed.

[shance]

56. Who knows if these women were even State Department. Search warrant

They had no right and certainly no probable cause to enter your premise to violate your space in such a way without a search warrant.

THIS IS WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT.

[fooj]

62. Probable cause? What's that?

Geez.....

[kenny blankenship]

68. It's a relic from a bygone era.

Probable cause today is the affidavit of a policeman that you acted "suspicious" in his judgement. Probable cause is an accusation by a unnamed "confidential informant".
"Probable" applies nowhere in America but residential searches, and even there there are so many exceptions and loopholes available to cops, particularly ones that are willing to lie, that the 4th Amendment may be fairly said not to exist anywhere.

[Carni]

57. "Bengali American Muslim"

They are targeting your boss I think--and I wonder how often this is taking place.

That bullshit about wanting to see if it's being used as a residence was just a stupid excuse to get in and snoop around!

It's probably easier to gain entry with a bullshit complaint pertaining to City ordinances than it is to get a court order, or warrant under the auspice of hunting terrorists.

I wonder if there is some law that you have to let code officers in a building to be inspected? Were they both state dept agents? I have never even heard of such a thing!

[YOY]

69. UPDATE if anyone cares to know

One of the owners (who is a lawyer in addition to being IT...He's a nice enough guy and very intelligent, but doesn't have the social skills to really practive successfully) called the agents and asked what the deal was.

Apparently one of the applicants to one of their positions filed us as a former living place. It did not jive with their records, so they checked it out.

I guess this is a good enough reason. I'm still paranoid about it.