The Sky Isn't Falling-New Jersey Decision Reflects Public Opinion

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It seems from a cursory review of the decision that the New Jersey Supreme Court ended up where a majority of Americans are. About one third of Americans support gay marriage... About one third of Americans favor civil unions...And one third of Americans oppose any rights for gay couples... By supporting equal rights for gay couples they ended up where a majority of Americans are... They left it up to the legislature to give these arrangements a name...


I think the government should get out of the marriage business all together. I think all couples seeking marriage should get civil unions. Marriages should be left to religious institutions...

[latebloomer]

1. I agree!

Marriage should be a religious ritual, and churches can decide who they allow to marry.

For the rest of us-- civil unions.

[mmonk]

2. The important thing is equal protection.

I think people aren't going to turn against the democratic party over this decision, especially since it allows the legislature to name or call it anything they want while still applying the rights afforded.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Why Do I See All These Henny-Penny Posts Here?

I don't see this as a remarkable or radical decision...

[mmonk]

4. Niether do I, just the proper concept by the court.

What's a Henny-Penny post?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. The "Sky Is Falling" Posts Like This:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2481247&mesg_id=2481247

[mmonk]

6. I couldn't agree more.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Actually I Think That's Not A Bad Answer For A Democratic Candidate.

" I don't care what you call it (gay marriage) as long as they get the same rights as the rest of us..."

[mmonk]

9. Yep.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. That's Really Where About Two Thirds Of Americans Are...

Most folks favor equal rights for gays or "leaving them alone"...

The term "gay marriage" just spooks some folks...

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. I guess he's wrong

Apparently the M$M and the rest of the world don't really seem to care much anymore. This was always a Repug non-issue made up to scare the fundies.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Don't See Much In The News About It.

It's a fairly unremarkable decision. I suspect most state Supreme Courts would support it... It would easily get five votes on the United State Supreme Court... It might get six but I can't get a good read on John Roberts...Is he center right jurist like Anthony Kennedy or a wingnut like Scalia, Thomas, and Ailito..

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. I was at the rally last night.

Leaving it, a straight couple on the street asked me why there were news crews at the church. I said the court said gay couples had the same rights as straight couples. Their reaction, "oh I think I heard something about that. Hey, as long as their happy." I think they summed up the NJ opinion quite well.

[Vidar]

10. Agreed.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Let;s Snatch Defeat From The Jaws Of Victory

It wasn't the fact that gays could marry in Massetchussets that created the "outrage" and homophobia we saw in the 2002 elections...it was the corporate media and how they played the issue. It was the showing of "Adam & Steve" coming out of the church shown over and over for a period of couple weeks to burn in...then combined with the various GMA ammendments that Rove had planted in critical states that turned Gay Marriage against Kerry & the Democrats in 2002. It was the images of men and women kissing and coming down the church steps that made a powerful visual. There is no visual here...at least as of yet. Now, if we start seeing a parade of people getting married in Trenton like what we saw in '04 in the final 10 days of the campaign, then MAYBE it may be a factor, but I doubt it.

I didn't get the memo that the only Democrats running this year were Progressives or had to submit to some loyalty test. Each race will be won on the merits of the candidate and the issues that appeal or repeal the voters of that district or state. It's no hidden secret that Gay marriage or the lifestyle is akin to mysogeny in the old South (and some submit in the current one). As someone from the south astutely pointed out in another post, Gay Marriage will be accepted only when its mandated by a court...and that will be several years down the road. In the meantime, anguishing over Democrats in the South and West over this issue plays into the GOOP's hands...letting Rove run to the Fundies and use this wedge issue to spread fear and disinformation. Democrats beating up on Ford or any other Democrat who speaks out against what happened in NJ at this late state in the election have lost the nuance of what an election is and the current status of this issue. In 1960, a politician could run against blacks and civil rights and win big...it wasn't as big a deal by the 70's and a minor issue by the 80's. I see the same thing with gay marriage...or civil unions...it's going to happen...may not be ideal to all gays...but the South will have to change.

Need it be said again of the value of getting Democrats in control of BOTH houses? Ford will be a back bencher, but his election will give committee power to Carl Levin over the Iraq war or Pat Leahy over the judiciary. That's far more important at this point than anguishing Harold Ford's position on a lower ballot issue...and let's keep it there.

Peace...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I Think You Mean Miscegenation...

I am in Florida which is a bit more diverse and liberal and Tennessee.


If you had two amendments on the ballot and one prohibited gay marriage and the other favored equal rights for gay people they both would pass.


Gay marriage just spooks some people...

[KharmaTrain]

18. Thank You For The Correction

This is a strawman issue...especially in the Senate.

The only way the Senate ever gets involved in this issue would be in the pushing of a Constitutional ammendment. If there's a Democratic controlled House...where such an ammendment would have to originate...it'll never make it out of committee, yet ever see the Senate. Thus what Harold Ford thinks about gay marriage is a minor issue. What his vote on a resolution putting a time limit on boosh's wars of aggression is more likely on his agenda in the next 2 years...and a far more important vote.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Can We Bump This

Can we bump this to knock the "The New Jersey Decision Cost Us The Senate" posts off the front page...

All the decision said that gay folks should have the same right as the rest of us...

I am willing to "finesse" this decision but I'm not going to finesse any decision to oppose equal rights for anyone. And we are never getting the "neck" vote anyway.

[Bluebear]

17. Your premise is incorrect. 56% of NJ favor gay MARRIAGE,

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=91&ItemID=11271

I agree that govt should be out of the marriage business altogether as well.

[mmonk]

19. The premise isn't wrong. Republicans try to use

cases from a state in a broader campaign in several states to sow division on the issue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. It Really Is An Easy Issue To Manipulate

The bottom line is while two thirds of Americans oppose "gay marriage", two thirds of Americans supports equal rights for gay couples.


For two thirds of Americans the debate is really about what this arrangement will be called.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. How Is My Premise Incorrect?

The New Jersey Supreme Court applied the laws of the United States and the state of New Jersey to arrive at a position on gay marriage that reflects the opinions of about two thirds of Americans. If you add up the Americans who support gay marriage and/or civil unions they are a pluraity...


http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

[Bluebear]

21. Because of the wording...

Just nitpicking. Yes, if you add up the 1/3 and 1/3, America is in favor of marriage or unions, however the polling in NJ specifically used the word marriage and got 2/3 to assent to it.

PS here is what I posted yesterday:

Civil unions are the legal contract. If someone wants to get "married" in church, good for them. That would be my druthers, civil unions for straight and gay couples.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2479358&mesg_id=2479395

:toast:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. But

If you add up those who oppose gay marriage to those who oppose civil unions you get a plurality also...

But the bottom line is two thirds of American support legal rights for gay couples...

Some folks just get spooked by gay marriage... I guess they conjure up images of two guys or two women getting married in their church but given the conflicted thinking of the average male he wouldn't care as long as the two women were hot...

[Bluebear]

25. You are entirely correct.

Including the fact that many straight men think lesbians were created just for their enjoyment. :eyes:

[mmonk]

26. _

:spray:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Speak To A Lot Of Folks

Some well intentioned folks just get hung up on the word...

Why is a secular institution like government involved in the marriage business anyway?


I don't go to the Office Of Motor Vehicles to get baptized...

[Tesha]

22. Bingo!

> I think the government should get out of the marriage
> business all together. I think all couples seeking
> marriage should get civil unions. Marriages should
> be left to religious institutions...

Bingo!

Tesha

[patcox2]

28. It won't hurt Menendez, but could hurt dems in south, west.

Unfortunately.

Public opinion polls that measure the sentiment of the broad american public do not account for differing levels of opinion in different states and areas. Most New Jerseyans will have no problem with the decision. But down in the south where the words "out of control activist liberal judges" are code words that appeal to the lingering racist resentment toward the liberal judges that ended segregation, this decision can indeed hurt. I am not saying all southerners are this way, but if you only need to get 2% of the people riled to swing the election, there you are.

[distantearlywarning]

29. I agree.

It should be civil unions for everybody in the eyes of the law. If people want to add to that by having a religious ceremony to unite them in the eyes of God, then that should be between them and their church. This should apply across the board, gay, straight, or man-on-dog.

[area51]

30. LOL, "man on dog"

You're bad. :spank:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Dogs Can't Consent

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