India. China. Look at the money trends. The WEST is in trouble.

[Deja Q]

As requested, and slightly altered as basis for a new topic.

People talk of leaving America. Wanting a better home, particularly for their children. Well, finding a country to inhabit is very easy these days: All you need do is look at where the money flows. This is because our world society runs on money.

And this message is as much for everybody as it is for those who want to leave because, quite frankly, the world economy is still based on the US and it will affects us all in the West.

If you want your sons to have a future, move them to those countries. Everywhere else is offshoring TO those countries. Even Armani and other posh high-end companies now offshore... In short, it's happening EVERYWHERE in EVERY Western country. Because it's so much cheaper...

If you want to call working in a sweatshop a "future", of course, but that's your prerogative.

In short, your sons have no future at all so long as the global economy imbalance continues to be exploited and raped by the unchristian uncaring loyal-less corporate elite. But I digress. This imbalance and related "brain drain" will ultimately shatter the West, whose economies are disjointedly higher due to cost of living and every other expenditure you can think of.

I doubt you'd like many of those countries you'd mentioned either. They redefine "dilapidated". China and India are "improving", but the ambient temperature and gross overpopulation of those countries will leave you displeased. Never mind that those same countries have HUGE POPULATIONS, populations that dwarf the USA's 300-million. Do you think they'll let you in, really?

No, we cannot fight any of it. So there's no point to.

No one is a coward. We all are. And I could care less about being called one; I've been called much worse throughout my life. And if I could live through that without going berserk, I can live through anything. (and, trust me, our childhoods are vastly different... yours being better.)

Most importantly, this is not a divisive partisan issue. This affects us all, regardless on either side of the fence. We MUST put aside our differences and work together as Americans, one of the same.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. Kicked and Recommended!

We have to fight for what we have here. We Have To.

[enigma000]

2. Americans have a better chance than Europeans

The median population in Europe is aging, the birthrate is well below replacement levels and there is no public will to scale back any of those lavish welfare state expenditures.

Europe has high taxes, high unemployment, and low economic growth. A young Western European has far more cause to leave his home country than a young American. Want to emigrate? Try Australia, or New Zealand or Canada. or Ireland - the one country in Europe with high economic growth.

Europe is America's warning alarm.

[raccoon]

4. So does the US of A.

"Europe has high taxes, high unemployment, and low economic growth."

And they have national health care for their taxes. What do Americans have? Imperial frigging wars.

[Deja Q]

13. True; but Europe's is worse...

I dunno what America's latest figure is, but France, the last I recall reading, was well above 10%. :wow:

[raccoon]

15. Which is higher then the OFFICIAL US unemployment rate...

You were referring to the unemployment figures?


Edited to add 2nd para.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Exactly. Look at Denmark that gives something like 15 months of

parental leave when a new child is born, and the way the unemployment system keeps everyone shuffling around to a new job until they find a place where they can excel.

Wish we had that here.

[rman]

6. There's no public will to increase lavish CEO wages at the expense of

social services.

But there's political will to do just that - and so it happens.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. A better chance of what?

A birthrate below replacement means that the strain on the environment will start to go down. That's a Good Thing. 'Lavish' welfare state expenditure means that the poor are well looked after. Another Good Thing.

Yes, high unemployment is bad, though you'd expect the ageing population to cure that - when the 'baby boom' population bulge retires, there will be more job opportunities for the young. Economic growth is nice, if it's sustainable, but matters little on its own. Ireland has had high growth because it was coming from a relatively poor position. It will probably stay as one of the richer European countries now - it takes education seriously, and being English-speaking helps in the world economy, but there's no reason to think it can power ahead of the rest of the EU in the long term. The other countries you mention have the advantage of a lot of natural resources compared to their population. But so does the USA.

I tihnk the thing to do is pick somewhere that the social policies fit in with your ideas of a just society - then you'll get some happiness from that.

[enigma000]

12. I was just commenting on emigration

The environment, mass transit, a good welfare safety net, public health care and state pensions are all wonderful causes I support. But the cost of these programs are higher in Europe than America (discounting the US war machine) I think this means a young professional European might be more inclined to emigrate than an American. I don't have the figures, but are Europeans not more likely to emigrate than Americans?

[Yollam]

26. The costs are higher than here because we don't have those things here.

And as for health care, the US spends tenfold what other countries spend, we only cover 50~60% of the people, and we get inferior care.

For example, in Japan in 2000, I paid $70/mo for my health insurance for a family of 4, and my emplyer matched that amount. Office visits were $5. Prescriptions were $5. I couldd go to my doctor's office anytime without an appointment, and seldom had to wait more than 20 minutes. The waits were somewhat longer at the hospital, but still better than here. Getting a referral to see a specialist was much less paperwork intensive than it is here with an HMO, etc. etc. etc. And European countries' systems are consistent with that. To my knowledge, only the US has a "health care" system that is fundamentally set up as a huge con game on the consumer, at almost every level.


And although Europe may spend a bit more in total on transit, etc., I'm pretty sure that on a per user basis, they are much more efficient than we are. Most of our cities have little or no rail service and lousy bus systems that a lot of snobbish or paranoid whites won't ride because they think it's "for minorities".

In Japan and Europe, a lot of people have cars, but they don't drive them to work every day. They use transit to go to work, and the car for shopping or weekend jaunts. And driving the car 1/4 mile to the convenience store would seem obscene...

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

10. Euorpean countries are in much better shape than we are

Many run a trade surplus, not a defecit.

Most have mass transit in place for the day when driving cars everywhere, all the time is economicall unfeasible.

All of them have done more to reduce oil consumption and develop alternative energy technologies.

Sorry, but the good old USA as run by the Greedy Old GOP is in a helluva a mess. Their policy of ignoring global warming, declining oil reserves and offshoring of good jobs will only make it worse over time.

[coyote]

11. "Europe is America's warning alarm."

Oh please...I have been hearing that old argument for the last 25 years....guess what Europe is still around and hasn't collapsed from their socialist programs. Trust me, the taxes in Europe are not much higher than they are in the US. For example, I have a 500,000 dollar home in Germany....I pay 200 dollars in taxes. My parents in the US who have 450,000 dollar home pay $5500 in propery taxes. One way or the other...they will get you in the end.

[Yollam]

18. Yeah, Europe's a hellhole...

:eyes:

[NewJeffCT]

23. Actually, for the first time in memory

More foreign college students applied to colleges in Europe than in the US... so, all those Chinese, Indian & Korean scientists and engineers that have often stayed in the US upon graduation are now going to Europe.

Coupled with improving situations back home, many Chinese & Indians are now electing to go back home to their countries rather than staying here.

[Saphire]

3. we need to learn to speak chinese now. They will soon be emerging

as the new world power.

[mwb970]

5. Oh no! I haven't finished learning Arabic yet. (n/t)

[Saphire]

7. you can finish after you learn to habla espanol..LOL

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. Which of course is in line after Esperanto

[raccoon]

16. Better drop that...somebody might come knocking at your door. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. "The capitalists will sell us the rope..." Lenin

The delicious irony of promoting the (alleged) "Free Market" in the "fight against Communism" is having unforeseen consequences. The Chinese and Indians seem to be better at it than GM and Ford.

[rman]

14. Corps/CEOs act as though they no longer depend on US consumer market

And fact is there are emerging markets elsewhere.

I don't think CEOs care one bit exactly where their money comes from, as long as it ends up in their (off-shore) bank accounts.

[Yollam]

17. Some of us are not JUST Americans...

My family is bicultural, Japanese and Caucasian-American. We have been planning to move permanently back to Japan this April. The fascist takeover and imminent economic collapse of the US, as well as Japan's far superior health care system, lower cost of living (Only Tokyo and Osaka are more expensive than where we live now in CA) and higher standards of living figured into the equation, but we are hardly making an escape. We planned to move back there years ago, and since my FIL is all alone now and getting frail, he needs our help. Your post shows a massive conceit against other countries, many of which are indeed far better places to raise kids than the US. I have very good job prospects in Japan, and so does the wife. My kids will get a superior education, and we already have property there to build a home on. I should stay here in the SF bay area where I have no hope of EVER affording a home? Please. And many of us have deep ties to other countries and sure as hell don't need a lecture about it.

[mnmoderatedem]

19. Funny you should post this

My former employer laid me off along with many other IT workers a few years ago (and the CEO rewarded himself handsomly to the tune of a $2 million dollar bonus - nice huh?). I just found out today that the same compsnay is outsourcing a lot of IT work to India, and over 100 more of my former coworkers will be axed. The hemmorage continues.

Offshoring. Short term gain, long term consequences. Will come back to bite us in the butt big time...

[Nutmegger]

20. Hmmmm my major is in Computer Science

I'm scared....:scared:

On edit: Welcome to DU!:toast:

[mnmoderatedem]

21. well I wouldn't worry too much

and this from a fellow com S major.

I'd just avoid going to work for a bigger company when you get out, as they are more likely to outsource their IT work, as you're more of a number a those types of companies (yeah I know, that's true everywhere). Try to find a mid size company with a smaller IT shop; they won't stand to save as much $ by outsourcing and it's probably safer. Salary and benefits usually are as good or nearly as good as a larger company.

Good luck!

[Nutmegger]

27. Thank you very much for your advice

I was ready to pack my bags to India.

Hope to see you around DU!

[mnmoderatedem]

29. Well, before you pack your bags for India...

take a look at this little gem.


:wtf:

http://web.mid-day.com/1news/city/2006/january/128667.htm

[Deja Q]

28. Most rational post I've read in some time, re: anything economy-related.

Thanks! :yourock:

Seriously. Especially when I have a knack of being very pessimistic about it.

Welcome to DU too! :party:

[NewJeffCT]

22. Have you actually been to China?

Most of Shanghai makes New York City look old, run down and small. It's hardly dilapidated, and is growing all the time.