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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:25 PM
Original message
Why More People Don't "Get" It
I'm thinking back to almost exactly two years ago, when I had an epiphany about 9/11 and what Buschco is really up to.

Until that time, I had some sketchy questions about 9/11 but pretty much bought into the official story. I knew the 2000 election was probably stolen from Gore, and I knew that Bush was evil and that war in Iraq was insane. But having bought into the 9/11 story I also bought into the "Afghanistan was a just war" line. I knew that Enron's collapse was somehow connected to Bush but didn't really think about it too much.

I was on the internet constantly, but what was I reading? CNN, MSNBC, Slate, Salon, Fox News, the Network sites, essentially, everything that I was also watching on cable TV. Without realizing it, I was being spoonfed by the corporate media with a touch of the centrist-left from Salon, all the while thinking that I was highly informed.

One night I was watching Hardball on MSNBC. Kristin Breitweiser, one of the Jersey Girls of 9/11, mentioned that Ashcroft had stopped flying commercially in August of 01 because of unspecified warnings. That--to borrow a phrase--made my hair catch on fire.

I went right to the net and searched under "9/11 conspiracy" and got thousands upon thousands of links. I was up most of the night reading stuff. My mind was blown. The evidence of Bushco's involvement was everywhere. A truly conscious person would have a hard time rejecting that notion, but unless you go looking for this information, it does not jump out of your pc and bite you on the ass.

For the next few weeks I could barely sleep or work. I began to talk about alternate 9/11 theory with my significant other, my friends, my work associates.

Most people wanted NOTHING to do with the thought that our government could have participated in such a horrible tragedy. Understandably.

People tried to talk me down, as if I'd ingested the brown acid they were warning people about at Woodstock.

A work associate who makes a living writing about politics essentially told me I was crazy. Why wouldn't every good reporter be on this story, if it were true, he asked...and I didn't have a good answer for that (I do now). "Take a deep breath" he said, and he meant it as an insult.

Yet the more I read, the more I knew that Bushco had done it. "The New Pearl Harbor" by David Ray Griffin. Michael Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon". Paul Thompson's "Timeline"

Then there was George Tenet, lying on the stand at the 9/11 hearings. Condi Rice, too, coming off like a school girl whose dog ate her homework. And Richard Clarke, shut out from his job as a terrorism expert, whose only outlet became his book "Against All Enemies".

The sum of all that turned me, but it took weeks and months of reading, digesting, looking at both sides of the coin. I was lucky that I had some time, broadband, and a voracious appetite for information.

It had its side effects, though. I ended up on medication for depression and anxiety--something that I probably needed anyway--and suffer still from constant anger, distress, and frustration. I became politically estranged from many people who I'd shared ideas with. They didn't want to hear "conspiracy theories" especially those that reflected poorly on our hapless president. I cannot talk to my Rush Limbaugh-brainwashed mother about politics at all, for the first time in my memory.

In the past two years I have probably spent an average of 2 hours a day online, reading the sites that provide me the best info on what's really going on in the world. I've also compiled a sizeable library of books and dvd's on 9/11, JFK, RFK, Iran Contra, Oklahoma City, the elections and other relevant topics. Much more than I can read.

I'm left to conclude that's what it takes to be truly informed in today's weird funhouse world. I rarely watch cable news anymore, it makes me too angry for all sorts of reasons. I read the (Columbus, Ohio) daily paper just to see what they don't cover or what they distort, which is a lot.

I'm fortunate too, that I have good research skills, a graduate degree in telecommunications, and decent critical faculties.

It's no wonder most people don't get it.

Sadly, you just about have to be willing to work as if you're getting a "graduate degree in reality" these days in order to "get it".

And who, except a few of us, has the time or the inclination for that, especially with the economy collapsing all around us?

Oh yeah, I guess that, too, was the plan.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well put, and it parallels a lot of my experiences. "graduate degree in
reality" - great phrase!
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
79. I still think the information Sybil Edmond is sitting on
would be explosive. Her co-workers were actually erasing much of the pre-9/11 Intel. They kept telling her to shut-up about it. I'll bet there were all sorts of links to the flight school boys and how much secret assistance they were receiving. Plus how involved Prince Bander undoubtedly was. Those Saudi's were in this up to their eyeballs.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. They may not get the 911 stuff but they DO get
1) the Google subpoena
2) domestic wiretapping
3) the hiding of Katrina documents

Likewise Plamegate is fairly straightforward. I'll take whatever works at this point.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. High fuel prices...
Brings them in every time, all of them.

Think of any others?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
63. His daughters's behaviour...
Hey, I'm just trying to think at their level!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. Hopefully each will discover they have
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 10:15 PM by ClayZ
Puzzle Pieces, but not all of them... and then they will start searching for the TRUTH.




I love the phrase "Graduate Degree in Reality".

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Stanchetalarooni Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is too late for you to drink the Kool-Aide
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 02:52 PM by Stanchetalarooni
You know too much.
You have become a free thinker.
You are using more of your brain than than the 20% the rest of your fellow Americans are using.
You are not alone.
........
My experience parallels yours in many ways.
There are thousands of us out there.
We are all probably disenfranchised and hence open to realities beyond the smoke and mirrors of consumption and acquisition.
We, of course, are not normal in any sense of the word as the norm is to be led like a sheep.
We are fringe, albeit, astute fringe.
We exist far out into the right-hand tail of the bell curve in this regard and it is quite lonely there wouldn't you say?

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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
40. Well - I Am Happy To Be Out On the Fringe with All of You.
Not happy about what's happening - but glad to know there are others who see it too.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. you're exactly right . . . anyone who relies on the corporate media . . .
for their news is grossly misinformed and uninformed about what's happening in this country and in the world . . . the networks and major papers are all in the hands of a very small band of media conglomerates whose interests, in the main, coincide with those of BushCo . . . so what they report is selective and slanted, and it's no wonder that most Americans aren't as outraged as we are . . . they simply don't KNOW . . . just ask your friends, neighbors and/or family members, for example, if they've ever heard of the PNAC or Leo Strauss -- and watch the blank stares . . .

to be informed today, you MUST use the internet . . . you have to read news and commentary from other nations and from alternative new sources . . . the corporate media is nothing but a house organ for the corporatocracy, so relying on television, newspapers, and mainstream magazines will inevitably leave you with a grossly inaccurate and incomplete version of current events . . . the version they WANT you to believe -- in order to protect their power, their prerogatives, and their profits . . .

as for 9/11 . . . the most outrageous "conspirace theory" of them all is the "official" story of what happened on that tragic day . . .
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
78. And yet the people
have not succumbed to most of the harshest efforts to herd them against Clinton or toward the right. The GOP despaired of that under Clinton. Apparently dictatorship is their last and only ploy and NO bipartisan benefits to win anyone at all to their fake party.

Yet blindness does enough damage to keep America sick with ignorance. People straining to hear truth from the tube are in much worse condition than when RFK strained at Hoover's tapes to hear Mafia plots against his family. (Hoover had edited them out and triumphantly used RFK's breech of law to launch more wiretapping). We are a nation of functional news idiots because of the fraudulent news media. This devastation isn't helping the nation as a whole either which is one more reason why the Coup keeps leaving democracy behind and concentrates on simple looting.

The people don't need one or many of your facts or sources, as devastating or striking as they are. What they need is to turn off the news media. Unplug. Somehow get out of the common miasma and into some version of honest news and communicate this to each other rather than the poisoned air we all breathe.

So far, so far, the public has not been won over or brutalized into truly going under. it DOES sense right and wrong and what is happening, hence the straining, the anger, the mood that cannot be controlled. Refuges in routine or fantasy raise more action and enthusiasm than the need to ensure their own survival and find some way toward acting as real Americans, yet underneath truth always rules, a scourge to deniers, a sorrow to the aroused. Maybe nothing we individually do, as individual soldiers no way seem critical in any victory or plan, maybe nothing will "win", but we can see and most can feel. Evil must oppress and overreach to deny this because lying is not enough.
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Edward Copeland Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bias in the brain lets people ignore contrary facts
I didn't know where else to post this, since I don't have enough posts yet to start a thread of my own, but it's quite interesting.

Political bias affects brain activity, study finds
Democrats and Republicans both adept at ignoring facts, brain scans show

LiveScience

Democrats and Republicans alike are adept at making decisions without letting the facts get in the way, a new study shows.

And they get quite a rush from ignoring information that's contrary to their point of view.

Researchers asked staunch party members from both sides to evaluate information that threatened their preferred candidate prior to the 2004 Presidential election. The subjects' brains were monitored while they pondered.

Read the rest here: http://edwardcopeland.blogspot.com/2006/01/nobody-can-handle-truth.html
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. That may explain why we feel so good about being here.
Welcome to DU!

:hi:
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wow, you too?
Pretty much the same thing happened to me. Like one day, something just caught my attention, I did a Google on 911, and that was it. It was all over after that. Since then, it's like I am going through college again. Like a sponge taking in all this info. and I can't get enough. And the more I learn, the more I despair that things in this world are so far out of the grasp of what most people can handle, that most people will never know the truth. It is work. It's a lot of work, and it takes a big emotional toll on you.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. You know, repressing the Truth takes even more work and a bigger toll
emotionally.

And I think a lot of Americans see bits and pieces of info that threaten to burst their bubble too. But rather then search for more info and make sense of things they end up spending even MORE energy keeping that info hidden from their conscious awareness and pretending it doesn't exist.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sounds a lot like my own experience. If you depend on network
news for information, you will remain, more or less, uninformed. I have learned so much from sites like DU, various blogs and recommended articles that I'm astounded by my own level of ignorance in the past.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've "gotten it" since early 2002...
...but with few exceptions, I don't bother with telling people my thoughts about this stuff because I know they are not as immersed in it as I am, and because to them, the feasible theories, (mostly LIHOP scenarios) are no different than the rather silly bombs/missiles theories and nonsense being pushed on 'Art Bell Coast to Coast' and wtc7.org.

So I just go along with the pretense that everything is more or less normal, but try to do what I can to arouse suspicion of the Bush cabal when I can.

America wasn't ready for the reality that its own government murdered its leader back in 1963, so it sure as hell isn't going to be ready to accept the fact that its own government let 3000 of them die on purpose on 9-11. Even my lefty dad can't believe it. It's kind of like Republicrat Ed Schultz said to a caller claiming LIHOP - "If that's true, then we are so far gone that it's just not bearable."

So I think there is an inkling of suspicion in a lot of people, but they know that acknowledging that possibility raises way too many implications, and they just aren't willing to go there.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. With all of the war hawks in the administration....
especially the fact that they are "chicken hawks" who have no war experience themselves, leads one to believe that they have no problem sending people to their deaths when it advances their agenda. They will continue to recruit for the armed services in our colleges and amongst the poorest in our society without any hesitation in the belief that dying, or being seriously injured, in the line of duty for the neocons is befitting for a populace the majority of which is to be treated like second class citizens.
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Kikosexy2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Count...
me in as one of the few who "get it". Like I've told my sisters, brother-in-law, etc. From 9/11 just take a good hard look at who's benefiting from this tragedy and follow the money....take a close look at what's come to be from Iraq, government corruption, destruction of the Constitution and our civil liberties, Big Brother, subtle signs of fascism, etc... it's the Dawn of the Orwellian World...or is it the rise of the anti-Christ...call me crazy, maybe but...it would not surprise me at all that many Republicans, neocons, the Bush family, the Saudis, OBL, et al all conspired to create 9/11 and helped Ol' Chimpie rise to power--just my hunch..but think about it.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. corporate media control is our NUMBER ONE PROBLEM
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 02:51 PM by arcane1
if we can solve that one, all other problems can be solved as well

they get away with this shit specifically because they know that nobody will ever read/hear about it in print, tv, or radio
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why they don't get it? Because there is still enough to eat and they
have no idea what war feels like.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Being informed comes a quite a price.
I'll pay it.
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RufusEarl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Welcome to my world!
I got politically involved during LBJ & Nixon era. Then I stepped back from politics except for voting until the 2000 election.

That's when I dusted off my tin foil hat, and started reading again. Same as you I new something was wrong when Bush was appointed king in 2000, then 9-11 happened and the gloves came off.

Once again I'm involved in politics, and you're correct it takes allot of time to stay truly informed, and most citizens simply don't have the time.

I can count on one hand, the people I can talk to openly about what's happening in this country. And my predictions for the future of my country or bleak at best and i consider myself an optimistic person. Good luck!
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. But They Sadly Have Time For Survivor, American Idol et al.....
They are mostly too lazy to do something like learn or think for themselves.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
104. I reject the notion that people don't have the time.
Edited on Thu Jan-26-06 11:48 AM by Stand and Fight
The fact of the matter is that they are intellectually lazy and mostly devoid of critical thinking skills. I had my turn around in circumstances similar to that of the OP and sought out the truth while serving in the Army as an active duty NCO. All the pieces were there to be discovered even if one only watched the network and cable news shows. It became alarmingly apparent that something was terribly wrong to me even when I would go on extended training exercises. I was in a combat MOS, so if I was able to seek the truth despite a high-op tempo, the average American could do the same.

The fact of the matter is that Americans are more focused on the silliness of MTV, VH1, "reality" television, what celebrity is boinking who, petty materialistic pursuits, trying to run from the ugly reality of life through living vicariously through pop shows, and an assortment of other meaningless past-times that they choose to remain locked in a prison of the mind. There is no excuse. Americans value their super-sized McDonald's fries as much as they value the super-sized lies that they willingly ingest daily. If Americans lose their way of life it will not be the fault of some silly-ass boogeyman called Osama bin Laden or a corrupt and deceitful Neo-Con -- it will be because Americans chose to tune into fantasy and tune out of reality.
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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. Inform the Masses!
Spread the word. Spark fires in people's curiosity. You can only do so much, they have to find it themselves for the most part.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. One last piece to the puzzle
Why has the Democratic party offered no REAL opposition?

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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
93. That's THE question. Hey, we're smart, but we're not the ONLY people
capable of connecting the MANY dots. WHERE ARE THE SO-CALLED DEMOCRATIC LEADERS? You have to conclude they're in on it too. They sat on the "9/11Commission", the "Warren Commission". It's all b*llsh*it - and they're in on it too.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. You-Truthteller-You. Best post I've read
in weeks.

:applause:

Haven't read "The New Pearl Harbor" or "Crossing the Rubicon" though I've heard them interviewed on KPFT.

I just know enough to know that we've been lied to, bigtime, and that complicity seems more likely than the cockamamie story we've been told.

The story of the election is exactly the same, and gets the same reactions.

"Today's weird funhouse world". I use the funhouse mirror analogy often, but your phrase sums it up nicely.



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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
43. Both Are Good Quick Reads - Got Them At The Library
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schmuls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. I wish everyone out there would do a search on PNAC and
connect the dots. Then do something about it.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. I think it's too late for a lot of people
esp. those who are brainwashed by FOX.

For the most part they go along with the Empire-building/Americans are victims meme - which seems like completely opposite ends to be on.

As if the Romans were victims when some people didn't want to be occupied.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
81. "do something about it."
You can help spread the word by distributing PNAC 101....see the link in my sig line. It connects all the dots in one handy-dandy hand-out for those who don't have the time or inclination to research it for themselves.
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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, this is depressing.
How right you are. I am insane in the eyes of most people because I see more clearly than they do, if only by virtue of having sought after information which they did not.

Thoroughly enjoying to read. Thanks!
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DKStreet Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. I can relate

and coming out of the cocoon of ignorance can be disconcerting. On the other hand, I fully believe that "the truth shall set you free". Once I discovered the truth, I found that I was no longer afraid. The fear no longer controls me, I control it.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
22. Yep. The epiphanies rocked my world, too.
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 03:32 PM by Just Me
I went through a period of heavy anger and frustration, as well.

My brother being pulled into the Iraq debacle about did me in.

But, I have this place and a number of friends who DO get it.

You're not alone. I promise. :hi:
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. Try 7 million Fake Votes. That was a wake up.
But most people I know automatically accept this as probability. 9/11 is still too big to wrap around, maybe even for me, but not really. They'll do anything.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. I almost could
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 04:21 PM by OnionPatch
have written your post. Except, luckily, my mother is a long-time, active liberal and hasn't ruled out MIHOP. Maybe talking to her helps me stay off the antidepressants. :)

I think you're right that most people just won't make the effort to find out what's going on if it's too much effort and they're entertained and getting by. So they become easy targets or should I say subjects of the corporate media. They do believe they are getting good news. Meanwhile, the corporate media molds their perceived reality to their convenience.

My hope is that the internet is going to be an answer. If more and more people have access to high-speed internet and if the internet stays free, I think all sorts of new news sources are going to pop up and be passed around as the internet matures. Instant access to congressional records and news will be easily obtainable, etc. We have to keep the internet free.

And you aren't alone. I guess that's why it helps to come here; to be able to know that.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. I "got it" from day one but then I've never really watched
the Corporate owned media. Stopped watching when they were going after Clinton during the impeachment crap. I'm just a naturally skeptical person and didn't/don't buy into the official line put out by bushco,INC. I think it's not the lack of time but the lack of inclination that leads most Americans too not get it. I guess we all need a healthy dose of skepticism right about now, or at least until the Corporate owned media stops it's assault on Americans.
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. not a big conspiracy theorist
I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, frankly I haven't looked at any of the 9/11 conspiracy sites. I probably
will some day.

The one thing I can't get my head around, and the thing that always starts me thinking are the reports that
a few of the hijackers were seen on Sun Cruz ships in the days leading up to 9/11.

I'd like to read more up on that aspect if anybody has any links.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. There are many links here on DU if you have the time to go through
them. I don't have them but others here do, I sure someone could help you out re: 9/11 links. I think there is even a 9/11 forum here.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. 9/11 is a huge key to the big picture
It is overwhelming, but the facts are all there. There are very few actual facts to support the official story, which itself, by definition is a conspiracy theory and accepted by the masses only because we have been force fed by institutions we were supposed to trust.

Thanks to all who have related to my journey...I have been a very happy member of DU for about two years, my post count is tiny, just because, uh, I don't post much. But I'm here every day.

Also, I meant to mention the very pernicious influence of NPR in the mass hypnosis. I have been a huge NPR fan since the 70's and have used them for a main news source since then. The fact that none of the NPR shows gave any credence to stolen elections, 9/11 truth, etc. keeps a lot of people, like it did me, from confronting the facts in these areas. Way too many people think that NPR is the liberal media. Fox is bad, but well meaning Dems and Independents still have a great deal of trust in NPR. The way the neo-cons have taken over the political content is brilliantly evil as it dishes out disinfo with a liberal "stamp of approval".

Ugh.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. 9/11 is key because it provides context for
election fraud, torture, spying, unitary executive theory, corporatism, Enron, all of it. Meant to state that in the previous post. It's the hardest thing to accept but once you do, everything else makes sense.
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RufusEarl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Here's a good place to start with 9-11
One has to be careful with 9-11 sites, because allot of misinformation out disguised as the truth.

http://911research.wtc7.net/

http://www.911-strike.com/
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
46. Here's A Couple Abramoff-Hijacker Links
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. What is really wierd is that most of my friends that have
moved away,when they come to visit, and we start talking about this administration, the first thing out of their mouths is that they believe ** and his group did 9/11 - no prodding by me, they just say it. So I think there are 100's of thousands of people that think this but wouldn't say it unless with someone they completely trust to not think they are crazy...
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Yes, the lack of acknowledgment in the MSM makes individuals
feel as if they're lone crackpots for doubting the official story.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. I genuinely believe there are, at least, millions of us.
We are just,...scattered among this huge continent.

I'm not talking merely about 9/11, but mostly about the repugnant corruption and criminality of this administration. It's gross. I'm fairly certain many tens of millions of Americans are perfectly aware of it. No. I am quite certain of that.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
76. I've had such conversations, too.
Sometimes it reminds me of a sequence from "The Godfather": Michael Corleone is talking to his fiancee, Kay, and she expresses some reservations about marrying him, because his father is a mobster. Michael says he thinks of his father as "just like any powerful man, such as a senator or a congressman." Kay says he's being naive. Then she says, "Michael, senators and congressmen don't have people killed!" Michael, with cool finesse, wins the argument by saying calmly, "Who's being naive now, Kay?"

So if someone ridicules me for not believing the 9/11 Official Story, they will usually smile at the "wild-eyed conspiracist." That's when I tell them that THEY are the "wild-eyed conspiracist", because really, what conspiracy theory is more crazy and absurd than the one which is being sold as the Official Story of 9/11??
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. My wake up call came later than most of you--All those black voters....
in long lines in Ohio, when Blackwell knew for months it would be a record turnout. Then finding out about WTC#7 collapsing in it's own footprint after the owner said "pull it". These are huge stories and the media won't cover it--a third wake up call.
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
77.  The election did it for me too.....
I knew in my gut that something was very, very wrong....and America was in trouble.

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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. I once thought it was Courage...
But it takes a bit more.

A defining moment in my life passed without my recognizing it until many, many years later;

I was in 5th grade.
I remember the particular day fairly well. My teacher was an ass and thought that singling out 'the new kid' was a good idea when the counsellor visited. The woman who came into the class had medium length curly brunette hair, green eyes, and a fairly superficial bedside manner. We were told that two student would have to leave the room for a few minutes, after which they would be let back in one at a time.
The teacher volunteered me as one of them.
So one other student and I waited in the hallway while the class conversed in hushed tones behind a closed door. Eventually, they called the other kid, whose name totally escapes me after all these years, into the room.
While waiting alone out in the hall, I heard a clamor in the room, but was too far away to discern what was going on.
After another minute or so, they called me in.

I walked into the room. All the other students were fixed on me, and they immediately started pointing to the blackboard and even bodily issued me in front of it.
On the board were drawn two paralell lines of obviously unequal length.
Immediately all the other students started asking me, telling me really, just how perfectly equal the lines were.
I looked at all of them as though they suffered a group concussion (really, I didn't figure out what was going on right away), and calmly disagreed with them.
But they kept at it. For a full five minutes they did everything they could think of to try to convince me the lines were equal in length... even promising friendship and money.
When I said, "get a ruler", they told me I didn't need one as it was plainly obvious that the lines were equal.
After 5 minutes, the counsellor put it to a stop.

It was then that she explained that she was a counsellor to teach kids about peer pressure and how easy it is to 'go along'. She said that this had been an exercise to prove that anyone can be convinced of anything if enough of their peers say it is so.

She said I was the only kid that year who didn't. The kid before me caved inside of a minute.

All I could remember thinking during the 'exercise' was "how could so many be so dumb?".

Now you know that the lines are not equal, and you are not alone.

I just show the footage of building 7 going down and I can see the strain on people's psyche.
Keep at it, the lines are not equal.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Great story!
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 08:21 PM by Iowa
Anyone watching "The Shield" this season with Forrest Whitaker will recognize the general theme. He's an internal affairs cop who uses an interesting technique to judge how easily someone will cave. He offers them a stick of Juicy Fruit. They decline. He insists and keeps holding it out in front of them. If they take it, he knows they'll cave easily. I suspect that most of the people here would have no problem refusing the gum. It's one of many things that makes it virtually impossible to "lead" us - and it's probably why there are so many skirmishes on this board, and so few on RW boards. They're passive and compliant - it's in their nature. We aren't like that. I prefer to think we're more like the people who founded this country.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
69. I'd probably take the gum because I like gum.
:shrug: :)

However, most people believe in god and I don't. Their believing doesn't convince me at all. At one time, most people thought the world was flat...or believed in Zeus...or any number of improbably things. I was conditioned to bow to authority from a young age, but something in me--the desire for truth--rebels.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #69
80. I'm the same way...
I'm an INTJ per the Myers-Briggs. I suspect many here meet the INTJ profile (anyone who wants to take a brief test online can do it here:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

When you're done, click the 2 links provided for detailed descriptions of your profile, as well as a list of famous people who likely have the same profile.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #80
105. wow, it says I'm a Mastermind, INTJ.. n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #105
109. I got 'Field Marshal', ENTJ n/t
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #35
85. a most excellent story
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Trish1168 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
37. You related my story. I am a critical thinker too and very rational.
I'm a scienist. But I saw those buildings fall with my own two eyes. I remarked at the time that I was surprised that it looked so much like controlled demolition, never thinking that it really could have been.

My husband thinks I'm crazy. I can't discuss this with most co-workers. Most can't conceive of our government being behind this. I couldn't either a few years back.

My turning point was the Iraq war. I could plainly see the bait and switch. One minute its Osama...the next Saddam. Clearly, Iraq didn't attack us, and it didn't appear to me as if they posed a threat. It bothered me that we were, for the first time, going to invade and occupy a country that never did anything to us. What freaked me out was the media coverage. I mean there was not a word about our drastic change in policy. He we are, being imperialistic. My God, this was what Hitler did (invading smaller countries)....yet, not a word was allowed onto television suggesting that this was even a different policy, never mind questioning the acceptability of it. Seeing the media creeped me out....freaked me out. I knew then that our media was REALLY CONTROLLED.

Then, after the 2004 election....I suspected the election was stolen (I refused to believe our country is that stupid and I was right). Then I read everything I could find to try to figure out what happened to my country. That's when I stumbled on to Griffin's book "The new pearl harbor". I also read many other books (foreign policy books...books on Bush's lying....Bush biographies....books on neocons....web pages on the PNAC).

I don't care if people think I'm crazy. What distinguishes us is our open mindedness. But, it seems to me so obvious what is going on. Its my supreme frustration to be helpless and powerless and what is worse is that so many don't get it.

Now we have a terrorist surveillance program....only we're the terrorists. That's what people don't understand. We genuinely have to fear our government for the first time in our lives, and this is a deeply depressing thought.

I applaud your rationality and my own. I fear everyone else will come around....too late.
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
39. You Know, Its Like We Live In A Parallell Universe. Luclkiy I Have Friends
...who are interested, too. One of them said to me a couple days ago, "Are we the only people who know ANYTHING about what's going on in this country? It sure seems like it."
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
44. Fabulous post.
I've had similar experiences and it just tears my hair out that people are so naive to believe the official story on 9/11. I think they just don't want to believe that their government would be so devious as to kill their own people for political gain... but that's what happened. It makes me furious that this Administration is literally getting away with murder - and if I didn't have the DU to vent, I think I'd be going insane.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
45. This NSA scandal/ FISA thing is getting closer to letting cat out of bag
Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 07:49 PM by Carni
I am not sure what the hell 911 was really about but it certainly isn't what has been presented! (we will probably never know)

The heart of the thing IMO or should I say where it might all unravel(after years of research) I believe revolves around the players in the FBI, and OIPR back at the time of 911--look at the people in charge of *protecting us* now...Frances Townsend, Chertoff (recall O'Neill who some think was a hero who died on 911)
Then there is the mystery "James A Baker" who headed OIPR (No one seems to be able to find out who he is--it's not Baker III supposedly, but might be Baker IV)

All of these people were responsible for basically blocking the Massoui warrant before FISA and yet they have all been promoted---WHY?

Throw in this whole Abramoff scandal/ which seems to tie in the phone companies and this NSA outsourcing and you have a massive *something* going on.

I am not savvy enough to put the pieces together, but more and more of those pieces seem to be coming out and I hope to God that someone gets to the bottom of this.

But regarding the OP yes, the average person doesn't have the patience or time to comb through all this month after month and even the ones that do get burned out!
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
48. We were trolled yesterday on another thread.
The guy used the phrase "crazy conspiracy theories". I brought up Iran/Contra as an example of a "crazy conspiracy theory". Only everyone knows it was real. And yet still..

"I only referred to Iran/Contra as a crazy theory because that whole thing was insane, and you would have to be nuts to do what they did in the first place. It defines crazy conspiracy. Stealing elections may be ugly and all, but I don't think it would qualify someone as being crazy. Doesn't rule it out for these meglomanics either (being crazy I mean) but you know what I mean. These are some of the same folks as it turns out. Just saying, if anyone wants to have a serious discussion about crazy, well then, let's have at it."

The "crazy conspiracy theories" talk may be the thing that finaly pushes me over the edge. I too have had some psychotic episodes, not from this exactly, but from a similar exercise. Back during the impeachment I actually tried to think like those monsters. WARNING: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, can cause multiple types of cranial malfuntion that manifests in complete breaks with reality. I feel your pain. Hope the meds are helping. Just know that you're not wrong or alone (60's music helps alot).
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
49. Excellent post
I'm also working on my "graduate degree in reality". It sure takes a lot of time, but it is worth it to be knowledgeable about those things going on around me.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people say they don't have time, but how many hours do they watch those Survivor Shows on TV? How many read Romance novels, how many play golf? And these are the same people, usually, who get their news from their friends who watch Fox news and/or listen to Rush Limbaugh.

I can only hope that one day, the lightbulb will come on for them.

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MakeItSo Donating Member (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act"
That's George Orwell.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
51. You're not alone.
It's hard to keep up with everything. The pace has definitely picked up, too.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. beautifully said
beautifully said. I feel the same way every day.
People constantly mention "conspiracy theories", when you mention even simple facts, like the ceos of Diebold and ES&S are brothers....
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. I'm going through Paul Thompson's "Timeline" again.
There are so many questions that jump out at me, on the second read leading up to 9-11, and it just makes me want to phone the protagonists up and ask them the question, "Did you do it, and what was your part in it?"
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
54. I Think Bush Did It, Too
And I feel like I am living some double life because of it. I am the only Democrat in my family, & since I know the other family members don't want to hear anything bad about Bush, I put on this big act like everything is okay & I am happy, when I am really depressed, angry, & filled with anxiety inside. When I see others acting like they are so happy, I wonder how many of them are putting on an act, too? I used to be just awful at pretending like I was happy, but being on antidepressants has made it a lot easier.:P

Tammy
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. What I hate is
I agree with MIHOP. But to regurgitate all the information points links on command for a skeptic, or worse a "moderate" who is almost coy about deciding where he falls on this issue but instead keeps on opting out for "I don't have enough information to judge it,it gets really maddening. Especially when they blow you off like you can't be smart enough to do research or they assume you are reading left only stuff because you fail to distill it into simple spoon fed bytes for them and when I am not articulate ,(no college degree here)and not always confident when a debate arises and the rapid fire interruptions and questions start and the stress of the impatience and underlying discounting in the other person who is refusing to listen and just shut up and listen until my argument is made,tongue ties me and makes me lose track of my own thoughts so I appear like I haven't looked as deeply into this as I have. I hate that!
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MakeItSo Donating Member (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. you suffer from a lack of self-awareness
not articulate my ass.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #60
74. thanks.
I think I just get flustered dealing with people in denial.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #56
82. This will help
Give them a copy of PNAC 101 (link in sig line) then walk away. The timeline puts all the pieces together and someone would have to be brain-dead not to "get it" afterwards.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
57. Only reason I have time to "get it" is because I'm a stay home Mom w/ help
...and because I need little sleep...Lately, I have been a bit "behind" on issues because we suffered a flood in my area on Dec. 31st...I've been busy cleaning up the muck and dealing w/ insurance issues...I then think about how people who are working 2 jobs to make ends meet, have no help w/ the kids and do need sleep (or maybe on top of all that are in the Gulf Coast post-Katrina) then how the hell would they ever have the time to stop and get informed and "get it"....

I understand why so many Americans are asleep and don't get it....and the more that the Bushler Administration keeps the working class and middle class barely making it, then they keep them ignorant too...
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
59. Afghanistan was a just war. But not fought justly as Bush moved onto
Iraq and perhaps quite purposefully .. didn't finish.

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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
61. Great Post and Great Thread... Thanks!
Looks like we are all in the same forest and we can see the trees!

Peace!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
62. BUSH, the "teflon" president -- seems that doesn't it?!!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
64. MIHOP?
Oh, I know it more than just that.

I think the key is in the lineage.

Goldwater. Nixon. Liddy, et al. Newt. Pat Robertson... Reagan.

I don't know, I'm just riffing here.
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. Kick & Nominated - Another good author is Nafeez Ahmed
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
66. When the official story is questioned...then turned on its head by
the facts...it becomes clear that we are living in extremely dangerous times. But that does not mean that you cannot enjoy your life. Living has always been a terminal condition! ; )

Agreed that Paul Thompson's timeline is critical reading for people interested in peeling the layers of the 9/11 onion.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
67. Dear, welcome to the club
With my background, former Air Traffic Controller and was stationed at a NORAD facility I KNEW on 9/11 protocol was not being followed. I've watched, via radar, ATF's aircrafts follow a suspected drug runner in a small Cessna plane (we called them bug smashers) and force it to land.

I was aware of all the bases located in the Northeast quadrant and while some fighters have inert bombs, some don't. We couldn't do a wide broadcast to those bases to get them up? Get the flip out of here.

I actually knew our Govt was allowing 9/11 to occur after the second plane hit the towers. I was raised in NY and NYC is one of my favorite places, it took me days to final be able to verbalize what I knew to my husband. I have no professional degree and I'm am lucky that I don't have to work. My only friends here are other parents and I have never told them what I know. They are sweet but simple people. I really don't think they could get it if they wanted to. None of them even read. Yep, you guessed it, I live in the anti-intellect red state.

I am thankful for my DU'ers and their logical free thinking brains.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #67
99. Please stop in at the 9/11 forum
There is a guy there, Mercutio ATC, who apparently is an air traffic controller and is determined to squash any post that edges into airplanes, air traffic, etc. It would be nice to have your expertise over there to balance his unrelenting defense of the official story.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
68. Nicely written. I'm right there with you.
I've been earning my "MA in Reality Studies" via DU and AAR for about two years now. It seems that everyday that passes brings some new revelation that scares the shit out of me. At times I get frustrated with myself for not seeing it sooner. We have to support one another now.

Great post. :grouphug:
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
70. That sounds so much like what happened to me
sometimes I wish I was still in the dark.
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InaneAnanity Donating Member (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
71. Same as me
It's really depressing how so many DUers still view 9-11 as the time when Osama attacked us. It boggles the mind how so many otherwise intelligent people can accept the given explanation, no questions asked.
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
72. pretty much everybody will get it pretty soon...good and hard, too
Well, unless enough of us get it like you are meaning, and can take some steps to take control back from the madmen....
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hangloose Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
73. THANK YOU FOR THE POST
The first time I encountered 911 truth.org I was flabbergasted and couldn't believe it. However for some reason I returned and studied the site and several others that promoted the same view. What won me over was the logic and evidence these sites presented. I was won over and very self critical for being so naive and shielded from the realities of that day.

No more self delusion we have a mass murdered and associated henchmen in control of our government.

I am worried.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
75. Welcome to the club, friend!
There's one other thing about people's resistance to this--something that your excellent post didn't mention, but which I'm sure you're aware of. It is this:

When someone (such as you or I) says that they have doubts about the "official story" of 9/11, other people expect that person to be all prepared with an airtight, locked-up, fully-proven, alternative explanation.

I don't have a full explanation of what DID actually cause 9/11, or of everything that happened. I just know that IT DIDN'T HAPPEN THE WAY WE ARE TOLD IT HAPPENED. (My belief, like yours, is that Bushco was very much involved... and others involved went along because there was something in it for them, too. I also believe that the stock market gaming played a not-insignificant part in 9/11; after watching the antics of the unchecked republicans, everyone should realize that some people will indeed do anything for money.)

I reserve the right to say that I don't believe the official story of 9/11--in fact, I don't believe one word of it--while not necessarily having a full explanation (yet) for what really did happen.

Hope you've visited: madcowprod.org, whatreallyhappened.com, and onlinejournal.com, because those are some sites which have a lot of info on this.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
83. it's all horribly TRUE
this is not a bad dream
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
84. I was seriously depressed
For weerks after I finished writing PNAC 101 (see link in sig line) and the full impact of what had transpired hit me. Then I got PISSED and decided to dedicate myself to informing as many people as possible about what they had done. Please join the Causeits the only constructive way I know to counteract their evil and make a positive difference.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
86. "It's a full-time job keeping up with these bastards" is my mantra.
If you don't have the time, inclination & skills, you just can't do it.
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
87. Very similar experience here.
Except mine was about voting fraud (and now everything else I've discovered in my research about this administration). Something I've noticed is that a lot of people out there mostly don't want to hear about these things because they make them unhappy. And people just don't want to be unhappy. It's much easier for them to bury their silly little heads in the sand and turn on Temptation Island 14 and not worry about anything. It pisses me off royally that there are so many people out there who are like that. I'm to the point now where I don't even want to speak with people like that anymore. I feel like, when you get right down to it, it's kind of their fault that this country is so fucked up. Because they can't even be bothered to educate themselves in any way or spend two minutes of their 24 hour day thinking through something they heard on Fox News.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. You're right about people not wanting to be unhappy, but it's more...
Edited on Thu Jan-26-06 09:52 AM by democraticinsurgent
People don't want to know that the media is systematically lying. People don't want to know that the government is lying. People don't want to know that Republicans steal elections. People don't want to know that the government supervised an operation that killed 3000 people.

Americans young and old have been brought up on the premise that this is a free country, there's real debate in the media, the government is maybe incompetent but not evil or criminal.

Believing what we all know means turning everything you know upside down. Like the Firesign Theatre said, prophetically back in the early 70's, "Everything You Know is Wrong".

That's the real problem. Who the heck WANTS to go through that?

But for those of us who are willing to take this major "re-education" step, that's when it really gets scary. That's when you start to think: hmmm... JFK. RFK. MLK. George Wallace. Paul Wellstone. Iran/Contra and the Carter defeat. John Hinkley. JFK Jr. 9/11. 2000 and Gore. 2002 Senate. 2004 Senate and Kerry. There is a pattern here...how can those dots be connected in such a way that we can convince enough people to make a difference?

To me this is one of the real missions. First, we have to somehow get fair elections, if not by 06, then by 08. Second, we have to expose the criminals who have been altering history and stealing our democracy for the last 50 or more years.

What a task!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
88. You know what the worst of it is?
Our Dems down there in DC know...

That was the worst revelation for me. From their behavior..when I realized there was no way one could explain the feckless leadership of Daschle, then Reid and Pelosi compared to the House and Senate leaders we Democrats have had in the past.

Either the Anthrax or the wire taps or a combination silenced those who didn't know and many Dems who were there and helped bring down Clinton by their lack of support against the RW tactics
were already bought and paid for.

Watching the demise of anything Democratic about the Democratic Party while they urge those of us who care to keep signing petitions and get out and work for candidates who didn't ...in the end...give a flying f**k about us..was the tip off.

It's hard not to be cynical these days. But, it's what the Repug Psy Ops has been hoping for. It's like a "brainwashing" of "drip, drip, drip" until people are so worn out on the left that they give up. It's what they want.

But, I think giving them what they want is wrong. We may have to "lie low" for a bit out here, but we have to hope in times as dark as these that the fragile but growing network we've put in place all over the internet will eventually bring forth a new Democratic Movement outside both parties. How to cope until we see that movement come forward will be the hardest..I think.

Have to hope that the old expression "It's always darkest before the light" will hold true.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #88
97. yes, the dems know
and that is one of the hardest pills to swallow. it's as if they are waiting for some unspecified event to be able to come forward. i remember a post on here not long ago that RFK had to pretend he believed the Warren Commission report even though he privately told people otherwise. Then a week before he was assassinated, he answered a question at a rally by saying he would absolutely reopen the investigation.

The rest is history.

Remember when Bush pulled Kerry aside after the third debate and whispered in his ear? What do you think he said?

My guess is something along the lines of "be a good boy after this is over, or bad things will happen to your family".
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #97
102. If the Dem leaders are waiting for an event, I think * has just
given them an opportunity. The latest lie is if the administration had been allowed to eavesdrop in the US prior to 9/11, then they would have had sufficient information to prevent it. That, fellow DU'ers, is the perfect opener for a public discussion of what information they DID have prior to 9/11. When the truth about the numerous (!!) warnings from governments around the world comes out, at the very least we get public recognition of LIHOP. That's the first step down the road to eventual public understanding and acceptance of MIHOP.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
89. I remember
my second or third thought on the morning of 9/11 was "well, isn't THIS convenient." I already didn't trust Bush. I remembered the double dealing that went on at the end of the Carter administration and throughout the Reagan administration, and the whole thing threw up a host of red flags. I knew almost immediately that they'd use the attacks to justify anything they goddam well wanted, and that dissenting voices would be squashed and/or marginalized. There hasn't been a revelation since about the affair that has surprised me in the least.
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eugeneliberal Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #89
92. Gut feelings
Remember how Bush was always talking about how he followed his gut instinct? Well, that's precisely what prompted me to start digging. I had always taken an interest in politics, but was fairly apathetic during the Clinton years. I can't explain it, but watching GW right before the 2000 election, I had this really, really bad feeling about him. I didn't know much about him, but something about him just seemed terribly wrong. So, when 9/11 happened I had a similar feeling about it seeming awfully "convenient." Since 2000, I've been like a sponge and as others have said it's taken a toll on me--the frustration, the anger, the battles with friends and my Republican parents. Yet, I'd rather be on the side of truth than following the herd, and I am still optimistic that the truth will prevail.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #92
107. A real patriot
asks questions and questions the answers. They may be able to throw up a smokescreen to convince the complacent and complicit that everything's okay, but anyone who isn't wise enough to doubt those things that don't quite ring true aren't really patriots at all. They're either fools, collaborators, or both.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
90. That is the most frustrating part of the knowing they MIHOP.
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
91. This post really struck a cord
with me, deminsurg,

especially this passage:
"Most people wanted NOTHING to do with the thought that our government could have participated in such a horrible tragedy. Understandably."

and this one:
"I became politically estranged from many people who I'd shared ideas with. They didn't want to hear "conspiracy theories" especially those that reflected poorly on our hapless president. I cannot talk to my Rush Limbaugh-brainwashed mother about politics at all, for the first time in my memory."

These experiences mirror mine exactly. I've even fallen out with well-meaning dyed-in-the-wool Dems when trying to fight through the fog of denial. They recoil at the very idea, considering such talk as an attack on the US itself rather than against the criminal Bush cabal.

As you so succinctly say, NO WONDER THEY DON'T GET IT!!! SG
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #91
95. This needs to be on the front page of DU...FOREVER.
Or, as long as they let us...
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
96. On a more positive note...
the administrators of this site now "get it" because this thread hasn't been put on the express elevator to the 9/11 sound-proofed basement room. That's progress.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. Yes, that is huge progress and greatly appreciated
I have noticed this trend in the past few months. Thanks, mods, for letting us out of the basement. Please hang with us, you won't be sorry.
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Dragonbreathp9d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
98. While I do think they knew something
was going to happen and let it, I do not think that even people as slimy as they are would have let something as big as 9/11 happen if they had known it would have been as bad as it was. But I totally agree that they knew something, did nothing in hopes of reaping the benefiets, and goddammit, they did. 9/11 made a 'hero' out of an SOB.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
101. ......
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
103. once you "get it," it's a lonely place.
my sister with whom i love communicating on every level as she is brilliant and we like to take off down the road of logic as far as we can take it, puts up a brick wall when i bring up government complicity in 9/11. she doesn't do this with anything else. she says i've decided to believe the "conspiracy theories" and won't listen to "reason." it really hurts she won't even consider the possibilities in this one area. hence my entire family is beginning to blackball me as having "gone off the deep end."

on the other hand, dh's entire family who all live in NY all know what's going down.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-26-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
106. democraticinsurgent, Look who thinks there's two sides to 911!!!
Of course, I have to find this out in the GREAT international internet news sice, Scoop
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0601/S00287.htm



Oxford Union Debate: Was 9/11 A Myth?


Monday, 23 January 2006, 1:10 pm
Press Release: Oxford Union
Was 9/11 a myth?

A variety of speakers and commentators will discuss the validity of various consipracy theories regarding the September 11th terrorist attacks.

David Shayler
Former MI5 officer and whistleblower, he shot to fame after being arrested for breach of the Official Secrets Act having spent two years in exile.

Bill Durodi
Senior Lecturer in Risk and Corporate Security at Cranfield University and analyses the effect of perception of risk by thepublic,

Ian Henshall
Author of '9/11 Revealed' -- a book seeking to uncover the truth amongst the disinformation and glaring factual errors that have been reported.

Annie Machon
Writer of 'Spies, Lies & Whistleblowers', Annie Machon worked for MI5 in Paris before writing her expos shown before this event.

Monday, 23 January, 2006
Event starts at 8:30pm


For more information, please contact the librarian, at [email protected]
(maybe he/she has a transcript/video link)

Thats Oxford University, England!
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-27-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
108. I get it.
And it ain't no joke.
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