VIDEO: " Getting Waterboarded" on Current TV

[leftchick]

http://www.current.tv/pods/controversy/PD04399

I saw this today on TV and it is pretty awful. Theres is also a longer uncut 25 minute version here at the link. Very disturbing.

[XemaSab]

1. K&R

[YOY]

2. Well that was disgusting

...and thoroughly necessary for everyone to watch.

K&R.

[malmapus]

3. K&R #5

Made myself watch it, wife asked me why the hell I was when I knew what waterboarding is, response was that I just had to reinforce in my head what our gov't just authorized.

[alfredo]

4. Kick

[helderheid]

5. will check it out later

[clmbohdem]

6. k&r

[mirandapriestly]

7. Current TV is pretty good,

I'm glad they are letting people know, I hope people get outraged and some younger people get more interested in what's going on. Current can be a little "fluffy", but they aren't here. Good for them

[lonestarnot]

8. Sheeet!

I fucking hate you bushitler! Fucking hate you!

[tuvor]

9. Child's play, I'm sure, compared to what US POWs are sure to encounter

now that bush has said torture is a-ok with him.

If the immorality alone isn't enough to deter the man God put in the White House, you'd think the potential inevitable blowback would be. He must have been nursing a hangover when the preacher was sermonizing about reaping what you sow.

[whistle]

10. The video on the U.S. military use of white phosphorous weapons

...was also very disturbing

http://www.current.tv/pods/controversy/PD00957

[helderheid]

11. I just got brave and posted this to my mommy list.

[bbinacan]

12. I know I'll get flamed for this.

One of my best friends was a Naval Intelligence Officer. He has been through SERE school and later became an instructor there. I asked him about it and he said you can't die from it. It just scares the shit out of you. BTW, he's more liberal than I am. Go figure. He said other methods were more harmful and didn't produce the same results.

[helderheid]

13. scaring the shit out of someone can be considered torture - terrorism at

the very least.
:hi:

no flames, just an opinion

[bbinacan]

14. Agreed

but if you don't hurt them?

[helderheid]

15. mental anguish is verrrrry painful!

[bbinacan]

18. Just passing along what he said. n/t

[helderheid]

26. understood :)

Thank you

[Sabriel]

34. So dangling someone off a bridge or building would be ok?

Or threatening a woman with gang rape? As long as it doesn't hurt the person in each case, I guess it must be acceptable!

[bbinacan]

39. I'm not at all saying it's

acceptable. Just passing on what he said.

[Singular73]

20. That's called Inducing Panic

And is illegal in this country in many states.

[leftchick]

27. not anymore apparently

I would assume the new torture bill techniques will eventually creep into US prisons as well. Welcome to The Soviet Union!

[helderheid]

31. eek

:scared:

[silko]

29. Torture is not about killing. It's about making you feel like

shit. The goal is to get info not to kill the prisoner.

[NashVegas]

40. You Can Die If It Causes a Heart Attack

Or other medical emergency.

[sweetheart]

16. less fun than being on top of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2Q1GGEYA4

[Elidor]

17. Should be required viewing for every adult American

This is what we do now to people we don't like, and mere factual innocence, as Fat Tony pointed out, is no longer an issue. But hey, at least we don't ...you know...like, send people to Egypt to have their genitals electrocuted...oh, wait...

[Amonester]

19. So Pope John-Paul II was right on the money when he feared:

George Walker Bush = Antichrist

He is the devil: no doubt. :evilfrown:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. I like how Dershowitz, on this video, so easily says "all democracies do

this, I just want accountability."

Fuck that.

On Edit: Also, they didn't put the guy on an actual board with his head below his chest as they described.

[cynatnite]

22. He was a hell of a lot more honest about it than anyone else...

I do agree...this is abhorrent. Watching this video was sobering and it brings home how unacceptable this is.

What I remember most is his quote of John McCain's. This isn't about who they are, it's about who we are. I'm sure I didn't get it exactly right, but it really sent the message home.

Torture is not who we are...at least that's not who we're supposed to be.

Powerful video and EVERYONE should see it.

[Jack Rabbit]

23. Thanks for posting

Here's What's Left

[derby378]

24. I hate to ask, but isn't there a DOWNLOADABLE version?

I can't use Firefox, and I'd rather not sit through the buffering process.

[silko]

30. Play the video then get the flv file out of your cache

Download flv player http://www.download.com/FLV-Player/3000-2139_4-10505954.html?tag=lst-0-1
and you have it.

[BlueStorm]

25. Very scary shit...

Is this what we have tolook forward to? I certainly can see how false confessions can be illicited from the torturee. The video kept insisting that the victim was a terrorist though he kept insisting he wasn't. Now this guy was trained to withstand waterboarding for the longest time but a normal person won't be able to.

I am just wondering how many innocent detainees there are.

Blue

[madokie]

28. I couldn't watch

wouldn't you like to get the little boy king on that board. I wouldn't even want to hear him talk

[aikoaiko]

32. mixed feelings

In general I am against torture.

However, I can understand why military and intelligence folks would use such a technique (apparently safe enough that people would volunteer to endure it for a video) if they thought someone had urgent life saving information.

Mental anguish of terrorist versus death of innocent people is not a difficult choice.

Of course there are so many issues involved with this justification that it might not be worth it in the end. Issues such as how certain does the interrogator have to be that the interrogatee has the info, how urgent is the info, how many lives need to be at risk, etc.

[helderheid]

33. It was already legal to do that if theire was an urgent need and time was

of the essence.

[aikoaiko]

35. I've heard this before but not seen it referenced with a primary source

Do you know of a link?

Ps. I really dont mean this to sound like a snotty show-me-a-link-or-I-won't-believe-you type of request. I sincerely would like to see the US law that allows this.

[helderheid]

36. You don't sound snotty and you make a good point. I don't have a link -

anyone else do?

[leftchick]

37. the "ticking bomb" theory is a myth

but makes for great tv....http://nevadathunder.com/?p=2741


and the fact is our very own CIA says torture does not work. In fact just the opposite is true.....http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7440

Please keep in mind many innocent people have been tortured at Gitmo and other US facilities around the globe and let go as mistakes! Can you think of any other reasons to treat human being so horribly?

[aikoaiko]

41. I appreciate your stance but hardly a myth.

Your links are opinion pieces and don't address the issues you claim they do.

The usual definition of a myth involves something that is false, fictional, or imaginary, and even your first link says the ticking time bomb situation happens albeit rarely. It just so happens there are lots of "bombs" going off right now.

The second link does not say that the CIA says torture does not work. It says its unreliable. To most people this might be confused with not working, but when left with a choice of no information (reliable) or information that is only 50% correct (unreliable), I'll take the unreliable information. Of course, if a more reliable technique that produces information can be used, it should be used for practical reasons if not moral reasons.

Truthfully, I am still looking for data or research on the efficacy of torture versus non-torture interrogation methods, but have not found any yet. All I find is anecdotes.

[leftchick]

42. then here is some fun reading for you

The CIA's KUBARK Torture Manual

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/kubark.htm

note:

Interrogatees who are withholding but who feel qualms of guilt and a secret desire to yield are likely to become intractable if made to endure pain. The reason is that they can then interpret the pain as punishment and hence as expiation. There are also persons who enjoy pain and its anticipation and who will keep back information that they might otherwise divulge if they are given reason to expect that withholding will result in the punishment that they want. Persons of considerable moral or intellectual stature often find in pain inflicted by others a confirmation of the belief that they are in the hands of inferiors, and their resolve not to submit is strengthened.

Intense pain is quite likely to produce false confessions, concocted as a means of escaping from distress. A time-consuming delay results, while investigation is conducted and the admissions are proven untrue. During this respite the interrogatee can pull himself together. He may even use the time to think up new, more complex "admissions" that take still longer to disprove. KUBARK is especially vulnerable to such tactics because the interrogation is conducted for the sake of information and not for police purposes.

... enjoy

edit: here is a DU thread on the TTT....http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2229930

[leftchick]

43. another TTT article

http://www.slate.com/id/2132195/

Torture for Dummies
Exploding the "ticking bomb" argument


there is a lot more out there on google.

[aikoaiko]

45. I have read this and the writer argues that torture in some cases is OK.

Note:
About 3/4 through the article...
But what about Krauthammer's conundrum? Will you eschew torture even when a few minutes of it, applied to a very bad person, would save a million lives? One answer is that the law wouldn't really be enforced in such an extreme situation.
...(further down in the article)...
This is not to say that Krauthammer's killer hypothetical could never happen. It is to say that morality does not require us to build a general policy on torture around a situation that is not merely unlikely in real life, but different in kind from the situations we are likely to face in real life. What we would do or should do if this situation actually arose is an interesting question for bull sessions in the dorm, but not a pressing issue for the nation.

I am of the opinion that it is a pressing issue.

Thank you again.

[aikoaiko]

44. thanks, I'll read it after work. nt.

[Shakespeare]

38. You overlook one VERY important factor.

The people volunteering for the demonstration know and trust the people doing this to them. They know it is a finite thing. They have no reason to fear the ordeal. Remove that factor, and it is 100% unjustifiable and immoral torture.

[Rosemary2205]

46. K&R - someone with access should post on Freep.

[leftchick]

47. I don't think it would do any good

to them every single person the US arrests is a terrorist and deserves this. Regardless of the facts.