Hastert -- How to lie without lying. And how media morons fall for it.

[Skinner]

I don't have a transcript in front of me, so bear with me if the quotes are not exactly correct.

During his press conference, Hastert said that he did not know about "the explicit language" until last Friday.

When Hastert said that, he meant this: "I heard about the so-called 'over-friendly' emails a long time ago. But I did not learn about the sexually explicit Instant Messages until last Friday"

But what he wanted the listener to hear was this: "I didn't know anything at all about the Foley matter until last Friday." Which would be false. But technically he didn't lie because he didn't actually say that.

If the folks in the media had half a brain, they should understand this trick. Politicians of all parties have been using it forever. But they're not that smart, so the media unwittingly delivers the message that the misleading politician wants them to deliver:

Discussing the news conference after the fact, Dana Bash on CNN said that Hastert claimed he did not know anything about the Foley matter until Friday. This is simply false. Hastert did not say that. And Hastert did know about the Foley matter before last Friday.

Watch what the media says about the press conference. If anyone claims that Hastert said he did not know anything, then they are fools who have fallen for the trick.

[Monkeyman]

1. They are catching him a MSNBC

[Skinner]

4. I'm glad to hear it. (nt)

[TahitiNut]

26. MSNBC: "Speaker First Learned Of Scandal Last Friday"

That's the meme ... emblazoned at the bottom of the screen.

It's a falsehood! It's a lie!

See http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/336

[bigbrother05]

2. But later he said it was the katrina message

that he heard on Friday he lied

[blogslut]

3. And the fact remains

That he did know about the emails and he knew enough to have people tell Foley to knock it off...they knew. They knew all along...monsters.

[truebrit71]

9. If there was nothing in those e-mails, why did they tell Foley to lay off?

Of COURSE they knew what was going on, and the longer Hastert prolongs this by not stepping down, and NOT answering questions the better off the Dems are. The longer the message is 'GOP on defensive' means the less amount of time they have to play their "cut and run" or "soft on turr" or "FEAR!! FEAR!! FEAR!!!" games...

I'm glad he didn't resign...it means the whole thing carries on....

[Tuesday_Morning]

36. Right.

In the immortal words of Bay Buchanan:

"Those emails are predator stamped all over them."

[cynatnite]

5. He was contrite before tossing out campaign slogans...

:eyes:

MSNBC is really gushing over him. :puke:

[EFerrari]

6. MSNBC: Monica N says Hastert is fighting for his political life.

And she says he's not backing down.

The guest looks to be blaming Hastert's staff.

[Marnieworld]

11. How admirable and inspiring?

Isn't that terminology used to describe a hero in a narrative?

[EFerrari]

12. They're making this into a John Wayne movie. Disgusting.

[Marnieworld]

7. They understand the trick. They are complicit.

I can't believe they are that stupid. It's obvious. Just like when they repeated "overly friendly" email until they couldn't get away with it anymore.

I think they know exactly what they are doing.

[EFerrari]

10. They are complicit. They are blaming "staff".

Nice work, presstitutes.

[Cameron27]

8. They're not falling for Hastart's tricks, and they're not fools...

that they parrot these not so subtle lies, is what's so telling.

[trof]

13. Yeah, I mentioned "very finely parsing" his words in another thread.

[Cha]

14. Either the media is stupid or

they're willfully ignoring what hastert said to protect their almighty tax cuts via the grand ol poofsters.

[pinto]

15. Yeah, and of course the way it gets reported becomes the "fact",

while the original rhetorical sleight of hand is history.

[MrCoffee]

19. All of that is fine. It's what it is. My problem is our response...

we get spun right off the story by bringing our facts to rebut their "facts", which simply means we bought into the lie without ever calling it that. Our facts become irrelevant because that's not what he said, it's what the media spun. I'm not hiding behind the "MSM doesn't report us" theme, I'm saying we can get loads of coverage by calling it out and not playing the game by their rules.

[pinto]

21. Agree. We can speak *through* the spin, not to it.

[MrCoffee]

24. It is my fervent hope that we do.

[EFerrari]

16. Omg, Norah O'Donnell is saying this involves more than one page

and maybe more than one congressman.

:wow:

[bobthedrummer]

17. Maybe Republican Rep. John Shimkus (IL), the House Page Board

Chairman didn't get "explicit" enough when he spoke to Rep. Hastert about Mr. Foley's page predation quite a while ago???

[cwydro]

18. To me, he even

LOOKED like he was lying...

[Justice Is Comin]

20. Wait until the ethics committee starts sorting the fact from the cover up,

with their subpoenas.

This canoe is going over the falls.

[flyarm]

34. subpoenas ARE GREAT ...but...

WHAT THE ethics committee didn't say was that each witness would be under oath..,..and that is what counts!!

and that is where my concern is..it will be another white wash...

and already these children's lives have been severely effected...just think about when these kids go to college..they will be stigmatized for a very long time..

while the congress assholes will go on as usual...

fly

[Justice Is Comin]

37. Sorry for the late reply, didn't see it.

Oh I think this is too big and steamy for them to even try to whitewash it. Too many eyes on this. They will put people under oath, bet on it.

Remember there are two Democrats on there that would raise the roof if they didn't. Also, many of those subpoenas might be for some very juicy documents, not necessarily people.

It has more tentacles than centipedes have feet.

[cornermouse]

22. Mothers are used to hearing their children try to split hairs

and this is an issue (child safety) that a lot of mothers will be watching. Only the dumb and the deeply indoctrinated won't notice Hastert's little act.

[formercia]

35. My just turned six year old does the same thing

About a week ago, I told him he should strive for political office.

[TahitiNut]

23. See ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2323325

I've been hammering at this and people, even here, just don't seem to appreciate what they've admitted. It's the 'defense' of deliberate ignorance and it's more than enough to prosecute.

[AnnInLa]

25. Santorum this morning on "staff"

On CNN this morn, Little Ricky said several times, that if anyone's "staff" was responsible for negligence in reporting Foley's misconduct to the appropriate bosses, then action would be taken in regards to that "staff." He was careful to put the blame on "staff," not "bosses."

This afternoon in press conference, Hastert mentioned "staff" several times as well.

Rove: Look for several "staff" members of different Repuke CongressCritters to take the fall. They will resign or be fired, but, lo and behold, they will end up with lucrative jobs in the private sector as a reward for falling on their swords, or being pushed onto their swords. Viola! Problem solved.

[bobthedrummer]

27. Republican Rep. John Shimkus (IL) is the House Page Board

Chairman-let's ask him--for starters.

[TahitiNut]

28. Plausble denniability - they're told not to report - the boss won't listen

"Handle it."
"Make it go away."
"Don't bother me with this."

It's the same old 'executive' ignorance ... plausible deniability preserved by keeping deliberately ignorant. Staff filters information, blocks messengers, and engages in the kabuki of avoiding an investigation.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/336

[spanone]

29. I know exactly what you mean. When Cheney said he hadn't read

the NIE report, he was virtually telling the truth. He read a briefing of the report by an aide who read enough to inform mr. cheney. There are all kinds of ways of 'fudging' the truth.

[lpbk2713]

30. Cue Sonny & Cher .....

And the beat goes on ...... and the beat goes on.

[moondust]

31. "I have no war plans on my desk."

(They're in the file cabinet.)

Semantic torturers.

[RobertSeattle]

32. 2+2 is between 0 and 5

I could tell you the accurate information, but I'd rather obfuscate the truth and let you think slide towards the wrong conclusion I want.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

33. You are spot on.

I heard the same thing.

Is the media complicit or do they not understand the subtleties of language?

[symbolman]

38. Called WordSmithing

and they are geniuses at it, having gotten those Psyops folks that work in CIA or the Media to craft phrases for them.

Someone should ask the Media if they are still beating their wives :)

He's not going to get away from this, it's too Visceral, too steeped in symbolism, the safety of children is at the core of Humans, they've messed with the hard wiring of the human mind and that doesn't forgive, it gets even.

I predict that heads will roll, probably Hastert since he doesn't have the high enough profile of the Big Boys and Girls that Bush can sweep under his wing ala Rove, he's a pig, people see it, and if you aren't perceived as having enough power you get stomped by just about anyone, a crowd will do.

There are too many ex staffers with nothing to lose pointing fingers from as far back as a few years ago saying Hastert DID TOO know. Some have vanished, reappearing with a lawyer, who the lawyer protects them from I don't know yet :)

It's too vile, when you find mold in the fridge you clean the fridge, if you find a dead animal in the living room you clean the WHOLE HOUSE, and I think this is a dead SKUNK.

But Skinner is right, the gossamer wings of spun lies float right over the Media's heads, unless they are complicit, but the truly complicit are just ignoring the story as much as possible, altho I do believe that my hero Olbermann is Shaking things up, with his BEAUTIFUL speeches. Guys like Tucker see that gets ratings and the cable boys start painting red spots on the chickens in the Congress, and a red spot on a chicken is not a good thing to see, if they see it, they all start to peck each other to pieces until there's one half dead chicken left in the yard.

MANY people WANT Hastart's JOB, and that's another consideration. ET TU BRUTE? LOL, he's toast, coming at him from all directions. :)

Propaganda would be a thing of beauty if it wasn't almost always used for nefarious purposes, guys like Jesus, Mohamet, and Budda hopefully will win the PR wars in the end :)

[bridgit]

39. no, i thought 'what he wanted the listener to hear' was "the bottom...

line is that we're doing something about it..." :shrug: