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None of This Is Happening By Coincidence.

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 06:48 PM
Original message
None of This Is Happening By Coincidence.
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 06:51 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Let's not be naive, nor paranoid and conspiracy-obsessed, but realistic.

Washingon gossip has long speculated that Karl Rove and/or Tom DeLay wanted to keep Foley around in order to entrap and blackmail Congressional staffers and use this highly tainted individual as leverage to mine dirty little secrets known by Congressional staffers and the media elite. Stuff like "the list".

Stuff like George Allen's past -- an unrelated example of dirty secrets kept buried until "someone" decided the time was right. As someone on DU remarked when I insisted that the alleged "other shoe" of Abu Ghraib photos would never drop because the info was destroyed, "this is Washington. I don't know if you're familiar with how DC works but such info is never destroyed. It is hidden away in a desk drawer to be used as insurance."

Foley was insurance for DeLay and Rove against Repubs -- to keep them in line. But also potentially democrats. EVEN NOW we hear on AAR how Dems don't want to speak out too soon for fear that "someone" (read: Rove, or Foley) has information on Dems. The pages Foley consorted with -- some were gay and went on to become staffers, as political blogs noted two or more years ago, citing the rumor mill.

Think about that: according to years-old rumors, Foley was operating a Casting Couch for conflicted, blackmailable future party operatives.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2313002

(Was Foley a Honey-pot used by Rove - or DeLay?)

DeLay desperately wanted him to remain in office. And now DeLay's gone, suddenly the Republican half of "the list" spoken about for years -- the one Karl Rove's used to dig up dirt -- comes to light. Someone is trying to bring down the system of blackmail and patronage from within its rotten core -- Foley, who none of those staffers can now ever fess up to sleeping with, when THEY were pages, as was discussed in the blogosphere two years ago. But now DeLay's gone, the dirt-mining system is defunct and Foley has become a liability for the House leadership, easily exploited by junior Republicans, especially closeted gay staffers who are intimately familiar with the rumors about Foley and share Andrew Sullivan's beliefs about their party. The reason Foley lasted this long was fear -- fear of what DeLay and Rove knew. Remember, DeLay may have been propping up Foley for that very reason.

Dems are STILL afraid to say too much for fear they might be implicated in a scandal that was set up by DeLay and Rove from the get-go primarily to target gay Republican Hill staffers and keep them in line.

David Brock and Andrew Sullivan, two gay ex-Republicans, have spoken about this years ago.

So you see the effectiveness of withholding on Karl Rove's part. As long as he keeps the info he has on Dems out of the ensuing scandals which, in Rove's world, are a dime a dozen and easy to overcome, he has the Dems on tenterhooks.

If info comes out about Dems despite their pulling punches, or Rove's assumptions prove wrong and the scandal begins to actually hurt Repubs at the ballot box (unlike in 2000 and 2004) or if Dems break the resultant "Balance of Terror" then all bets are off.

Remember how emasculated Repubs were in the media and amongst Dems when Rove seemed ready to be indicted? How Dem leaders who would not breathe an "angry-sounding" word in public stood up and cheered at the very prospect? Blackmail is being used -- and the less comes out about Dems, the more afraid they are of the other shoe Rove may or may not have in his posession thanks to dirt-diggers like DeLay and honeypots/flytraps for future Congressional staffers like Foley.

Then we come to Woodward. You tell me: A year ago the man was smarmily sanctifying the Bush regime, now he is uttering frankly on-the-nose platitudes about how evil and incompetent they are on CNN and 60 Minutes, looking like Max Weinberg doing his "deliberately insincere" routine on Conan O'Brien.

He doesn't even have to lie: I'm sure he's hid his contempt for Bush the whole time, just like every OTHER soldier in the media-intelligence complex who get their marching orders from unseen CEOs that have vast interest in the security industry and ample connections to intelligence services. And turn on a dime to do their bidding.

The Media-Intelligence Complex, whose interest is in creating a Security State exclusively benefiting and preserving government services that benefit the upper-middle class, think we are stupid and easy to manipulate.

And will turn against Bush only when and if THEIR hand-picked "deans of the Washington press corps" and "new economy spokespeople" -- all of whom are fully co-opted into the power structure, if not directly employed by the security-globalization-intelligence crowd -- say so.

Remember, these people are not devils. They are upper-middle class vanguardists, neoliberals to Bush's neocons. They believe in Meritocracy -- that educated global elite, people like themselves, are destined to rule and any attempt to upset that system hurts everybody. They wish Everyone could be privileged like them, but will settle for 20% as proof that American-style capitalism is the greatest the world has ever known, if only 20% of people in every country have a higher standard of living than anyone has ever had in history, then that makes it all worthwhile -- even if, as Fareed Zakaria put it, democracy was just an inessential component to the political, media and social environment they are constructing.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let's not be paraniod or conspiracy-obsessed...you first.
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DemPopulist Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hahahaha
:toast:
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. How long have you known about Foley, MrCoffee?
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 07:21 PM by Leopolds Ghost
I have been reading about his behavior in the pages of Washington Monthly and on "rumor-mill" web logs for two years, such as the notoriously disaffected gay ex-Republicans David Brock and Andrew Sullivan, since they first started talking about Foley's buggering pages two years ago, why DeLay and Rove so desperately wanted Foley to remain two years ago, and the existence of "The List" (to be used for blackmail purposes, and which David Corn now claims to posess) two years ago. This is news to you? You must not live in Washington.

Foley buggering pages was known two years ago on the basis of solid hearsay, and the Washington Monthly and blogs discussed it back then, it was commoin knowledge in Washington, Wash. Monthly and the blogs asked back in 2004 why the Repubs were not cutting him loose and whether his very presence on Capitol Hill was being used to keep staffers in line. Now the shit has hit the fan.

Another NON-paranoid NON-conspiracy bubble-buster for you: The Fitz investigation of the Blind Sheikh and WTC '93 resulted in... guess what... the stunning 1998 or 1999 claim by the Blind Sheikh that Al Qaeda would "turn the enemy's jet planes into weapons" and crash planes into the George Washington Bridge, "among other targets in Manhattan." NOBODY believed him.

EVERYONE dismissed the notion.

I remember this because I almost sent US News a letter to the editor in 2000 expressing my outrage that these threats were not taken serously.

I also irreverently added that I was unsure why the Blind Sheikh viewed the George Washingon Bridge as a significant target for such an attack, and that the World Trade Center was a far more dangerous target for such an attack (I was actually afraid to bring up the Empire State Building or the Capitol, which would have been even more vulnerable and significant) and I wanted to add that the CIA should stop telling people "they won't strike the same target twice" because Ramzi Yousef and the Blind Sheikh had already said they wanted a "do-over" and once again, everyone laughed and called them crazy. This was a letter to the editor that I sat down and went so far as composing on a napkin.

I was going to send it in response to yet ANOTHER threat by Bin Laden, one of a series that the newsmagazines had buried in their "fluff news" because it was regarded as outlandish.

I truly wish I had sent that letter.

I didn't because (a) I felt like I would be giving the terrorists ideas and (b) I figured if the CIA didn't take the threat seriously, my letter to US News would not change that. This was in 2000.

I am trying to bust your bubble, because the facts are much more cut abd dried than some wild-assed conspireacy theory. Americans have truly forgotten what it means to say our leaders are "corrupt and incompetent".

When you lay it out for people what "corrupt and incompetent" means they say "conspiracy theorist." No, the term is "corruption and incompetence theorist" and the truth of the sheer depths of corruption and incompetence, NOT JUST A PHRASE but the actual details, is far more damaging BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. What you write makes alot more sense to me than what I
have seen or read in the last two days. Thanks for taking the time to help me expand my thinking. One cannot believe that only J Edgar Hoover used such tactics. If there is one thing that has charcterized the Bush Presidency it is the climate of secrecy and fear and the Foley storey has to be viewed from that context as well.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thanks, Burried News.
Sometimes I feel like a conspiracy theorist for remembering stuff I read years ago -- like the Blind Sheikh claims, or Foley rumors -- in a newsmagazine, and nobody else remembers reading it.

I went so far as to dig up the US News article I was going to reply to.

It discussed how Bin Laden claimed to have a nuke and would blow up a major American city. The title of the article?

"Garrison Kiellor's new book and other stories."

I merely drew on the Blind Sheikh stuff, which has mysteriously disappeared from the web. The Al Quaeda threats to blow up the George Washington Bridge and crash planes... I assumed he meant small aircraft till I realized he meant jet planes.

The Foley rumors were on the blogosphere. As Hastert or someone said "everyone knew Foley was gay" -- you can bet they also knew who he was screwing -- and some of those former pages are now Republican staffers.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. I wish..
... the same thing for any Dems caught up in any illegal activity as I do for Repugs. Frankly, you make it sound like "crying queer" against a Dem is the end of the world for them. Really? Forget the fact that most of us here could care less about someone's sexual orientation, even though maybe not all of America is so open-minded, how does this play out?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, not a brown needle dick.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Look, I dunno what Dems are afraid of but take any group of people
And many of them will have skeletons in their closet. If America were not a "culture of forgiveness" I'm sure the problem would be even worse. The fact that many, perhaps a huge percentage of Republican Hill staffers are gay is more damaging to the Republicans (because of hypocrisy) than it is to Democrats who happen to be gay. Then again, I bet you anything a great many "unusually moderate" Dem and Republican figures elected in solidly Red districts just happen to be gay, or have a gay relative, issues that make them unuusally open to suggestions of tolerance where otherwise they would not. But if people knew, and were willing to admit that the person were gay, his or her career in that red or purple district would be over. I'm not saying that being gay is the most likely predictor of red-state liberalism or moderatism in Congress (think allegedly Lindsay Graham), but that's gonna be a huge factor when you center the entire red-blue argument around issues of cultural warfare instead of bread and butter class issues that do not view people's sexual behavior as a national issue. We have to get away from the cultural war, anf then these Republicans will not be so afraid to come out and admit they are gay, because they are really just voting their pocketbook and that is the reality of what the government is about these days, voting your pocketbook to attain economic power.

They use gays, pot-smokin' hippies, and other "social outcasts" as a bludgeon against Democrats, hypocritically, to guard their flanks while distracting the electorate with social intolerance "values" that they don't believe in (since they hire all number of closeted gay Republican staffers and. indeed, Capitol Hill is one of the most statistically gay neighborhoods in the country, according to the Washington Post!)
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. I agree with your second paragraph..
... I just don't see how that applies to a situation where you have to cut off your own leg to give your opponent a bruise.

Fact is, they didn't have to take this hit to carry out your blackmail scenario, up to and including "outing" folks they had snared.

If they were going to do something like this, it wouldn't be weeks before the midterms IMHO.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Rove did NOT WANT Foley OUTED. Foley was his dirty little secret
He and DeLay kept Foley in Congress to keep the other Congressmen honest. Because, you know, they don't want to wake up one day with a picture of their bare ass in the tabloids, taken by a member of the "velvet mafia" that Foley secured jobs in congress for. Capeche?

A number of Foley's buddies who were pages, are now prominent congressional staffers working for DeLay's "gang". The "velvet mafia" mentioned by David Brock, a gay ex-republican strategist.

For those of you not aware, the definition of a honey-pot is a tool, a source, an agent, not a scandal. He was there to catch flies, not create trouble or get caught.

Rove and DeLay figured nobody in DC would feel comfortable outing him because his prominent position on child protection issues and general hypocrisy created mixed messages. He was not a stereotypical gay man and he wasn't someone gays would want to take credit for. Folks said so on blogs years ago.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. I really like your post.
But with due respect - and it is thoughtful - I don't think so.

I doubt the pudgey little bastard has any idea at all who has what at this point.

In fact, I know he doesn't.

Joe
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. It's common knowledge that Rove is blackmailing people.
Dems have explicitly stated they aren't speaking out yet for fear of further revelations connected to the outing of a man whose behavior everyone on Capitol Hill knew about. Foley was being kept in check, in reserve, for a reason. Now Rove is losing control of his control mechanisms and yet he STILL has considerable terror influence on Dems, as we saw the noticeable difference in their behavior between last August and June, the period of the pending Fitz indictment (to which Katrina was ill-timed for Rove to do anything.)

Do you think it's "conspiracy" to assert that Washington Monthly, Andew Sullivan, David Brock discussed these peoples' peccadillos years ago in public? And asked who was keeping people like Foley in power, and to what end? Asked in 2004 who benefited from keeping a person like Foley in leadership, knowing that many of the pages he had consorted with are now staffers? And why a "list" existed, the Republican half of which is now being disseminated? What part of that is incorrect??

What about revelations in 1999 that Bin Laden wanted to fly planes intop the George washington Bridge, that Al Qaeda wanted to try again at bringing down the WTC? You think only Bush knew? It was IN THE MEDIA, people, in 1999 and 2000. It was in the newsmagazines.

Corruption and incompetence is what happens when such revelations -- about any of these things -- are published in the mainstream media years ago and no consequences result UNTIL IT SUDDENLY BENEFITS SOMEONE POLITICALLY to ask "who knew"?

LOTS of people knew, and didn't CARE -- and that's exactly the tool Rove is using against Dems, because he knows we can't count on the rest of the country remembering that WE should have known too, when these allegations were first brought up in public, years ago. What's true for the 9-11 scandal is true for the Foley scandal.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Oh, I am saying a lot of people do care - and
maybe they didn't say anything then. Maybe they didn't think it so important.

BUT -

They'd sell a video camera for about the same price as a cellphone with a video camera.

Tell you what else - he should have paid those guys A LOT more money.

I have an idea whats out there - and I strongly doubt "Pudgey Rove" has a clue.

They pissed so many people off.

Oh, we really are gonna win this - BIG. Its our history.


Joe


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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Whatever Rove thought he was doing, it was bound to collapse. n/t
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yep.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Our country goes in cycles.
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 07:03 PM by YellowRubberDuckie
The republicans ruin in for 8-10 years, then we get the dems in charge, we have sometime of prosperity, freedom and peace. Then the Republicans get convinced they can keep it up, take back control and fuck everything up for 8-10 years after they convince the country that everyone but the Christians are evil and must be ended before they corrupt their children, BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAHBLAH.
It's sick that the American people are so fucking stupid, but what's sadder is that it's so easy for them to do this shit.
And i'm probably wrong about the cycles thing. That's just what it seems like.
Duckie
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MzNov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. ssshhhhhh. Don't let those DU'ers hear you who think Rove
just doesn't have the kind of power you mention.

I guess they think Rove is doing Bush's travel arrangements and speaking tour schedules.

:dem:
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. It doesn't take skill to assemble this kind of dirt -- just shamelessness
Willingness to actually use it against someone requires shamelessness, a trait that is difficult even for Republicans to master.

I mean, if Rove were desperate he could hire a private eye and find out all kinds of damaging stuff on his opponents for $500 a pop.

Dem politicians certainly seem afraid of Rove's capabilities -- enough to have a standing ovation when Hillary said he might have just been indicted -- and media people are always talking about how he can destroy people's careers. You don't gain that kind of influence without knowing things, unfortunately.

Whistleblowers are hated in Washingon because they give out damaging info with no quid-pro quo, no sitting on it till they are 90 years old and the criminal politician is decently interred, the evil men do to be interred with his bones.
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MzNov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. yep, Rove goes way back in RepubliCON history
he didn't get his "reputation" from DU, that's for sure. He's been at this scheme for many many years.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. As an aside
In almost every case of human trafficking for child sex slavery, from Chile to Australia, to Bosnia, to Portugal, to Belgium, court proceedings get shut down or diverted when a clear connection to the elite arises.

In the mid 1990's, convicted child rapist Marc Dutroux built a secret prison cell in his Charleroi basement where he kept abducted young girls hostage at the behest of what he called "a big crime ring," which in the 2004 court case was thought by many to encompass some of Belgium's top politicians, judges and policemen. The reason why it took so long to apprehend Dutroux was that he was being legally protected by these same individuals.

Material witnesses at the trial described "child sex parties involving judges, politicians, bankers and members of the royal family." Victims that managed to survive (most were butchered snuff style after being raped) verified the claims.

After Dyncorp and Halliburton contractors were exposed as having operated child prostitution rackets in the Balkans from the late 1990's onwards (and more recently in the case of Halliburton), Rep. Cynthia McKinney attempted to get answers as to why the U.S. government continued to do business with these corporations.

In late 2005, Halliburton subsidiary KBR and Dyncorp lobbyists worked in tandem with the Pentagon to stall legislation that would specifically ban trafficking in humans for forced labor and prostitution by U.S. contractors.

The U.S. media largely failed to even report many of these cases at the time yet Foley's e mails, which are without a doubt perverted, creepy and fully worthy of further investigation, are given a hundred times more press coverage than huge sex slavery scandals with ties to the elite that resulted in the abduction, abuse, rape and murder of thousands of children across the globe - many of which are still missing today
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Consider how famous Thailand is for "sex tourism" yet NO-ONE
in the elite ever has anything bad to say about the "Thai Economic Miracle", nobody ever calls to shut it down or impose sanctions on Thailand (before the recent coup)

Hmmm. :grr:
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. ROVE DISCOVERS COLD FUSION
He is amazing.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Funny.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. No, that was the Chinese. n/t
:hi:
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Can you prove that he HASN'T discovered it, Smarty-Pants?
Just what I thought.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Rove consults with God while Jesus and Muhammad
read magazines in the waiting room.



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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Ana Marie Cox on Scarborough
talking about 'velvet mafia'(?) in congress and all the gay staff in the House and how they are kept in line.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yeah, I agree. Rove and Foley have been working together.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Another poster pointed out that DeLay was Foley's big defender
And DeLay was the pioneer in "fear tactics" that Congressmen refused to discuss on record.

What do we know about Foley vis a vis Rove? Were they close? I am speculating that if Rove was close to DeLay, Rove thought he could rely on Foley's existence to serve as a damaging check on congressional ambitions. Or was it an all-DeLay effort to keep these perverts in office?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Democrats need to learn the word 'condense'
Anyway, I've been wondering if this isn't some sort of purge myself. Sort of like the Harriet Miers illusion, I don't think anybody seriously nominated her. She was just thrown out there to rally the base and then push through Roberts. So is this just throwing Foley and Hastert under the bus for some other political purpose?? 5 weeks is plenty of time for them to transform themselves into the 'party of accountability' because they threw out their own speakers for heaven's sake!! I don't know, I already said all of this was making me a bit nervous.

Until I see them flip the media in midstream though, I'm going to enoy the hell out of this ride!!!
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I think Democrats better remember what democrat means.
If there is a problem here, I think thats it.

If I hear Bush define FDR ONE MORE TIME - I am going to throw up.

Joe
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. Is Rove using illegal wiretapping for blackmail purposes?
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 08:40 PM by PerfectSage
Leopold's ghost, I've been wondering if the revelations of warantless spying by * are indications that Rove has been spying and blackmailing republican and democrat politicians to force them to toe the line. A long time ago I read Hoover's bio and his mo was to illegally spy on and blackmail politicians to keep his power intact.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Rove does the same thing.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Of course. You aren't looking for terrorists with MILLIONS of taps
You are mining information. The only security the junta is concerned with is their own. Knowledge is power and they HAVE to stay in power or they go to jail.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. even ultimate control will slip
Yes, they want to control everything. I think Foley was not outed before because they had enough to blackmail him, "vote like we say or else". I also think that sometimes things just happen, that Rove/whomever does not have ultimate control that is perfect forever. I think it just happened and they are scrambling to figure out how the hell to stop this, how to spin it to be least damaging. Like Katrina, I think this will turn people against the Fundamentalist Republican Party. Sometimes stuff just happens.
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ryanus Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. AMEN nt
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fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. this scandal gives a whole new meaning to the term "dirty politics" nt
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wow that last paragraph uncovers
the whole nasty truth about America. Truth which many DUers do not want to admit. The Golden Age of America destroyed by Bush never existed. The Rulers of America have simply been able to fool enough of the people into accepting their fate and sow enough discord between the lessers to keep them from realizing they are in chains and enslaved.

K&R!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. Remember this?
"...Gannon has made a fabulously tantalizing assertion on his blog: that he met U.S. Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) "some years ago" under circumstances Gannon did not disclose. Gannon added, "here is so much more to this story that has yet to be told."

Is The Bulldog hyping a forthcoming book, or getting ready to name some names?

At the time, Gannon appeared to be referencing a prior contact between himself and Biden which, the former Talon News "reporter" implied, was not one the Senator would wish to publicly recount. Said Gannon cryptically, "I wonder why didn't mention meeting me some years ago C'mon Joe, think..."

The tone of Gannon's comment suggested that something about the former meeting between the two was illicit--either in fact, or in context. .http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/2005/03/jeff-gannon-continues-to-hint-at.html


Gannon wasn't there to "catapult the propaganda"... plenty enough established 'journalists' on board to accomplish that task.

I never thought Gannon's comment was truly aimed at Biden, but rather a REMINDER MESSAGE (threat) to many people on The Hill on both sides of the isle.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. Very interesting read...
I agree 100% about the Corruption, but I see the Incompetence differently.

The mess in Iraq...yes, these 'war boys' who never wore a military uniform couldn't play the game of Battleship and win. So I see the incompentency.... Or did this regime, along with Israel, want to see a civil war in Iraq? Or simply just an endless war...after all, all their friends are getting filthy rich during this war. It's the only thing keeping the economy going.

And all of the laws that have been passed...Bankruptcy, Energy, Tax Cuts for the Wealthy, Torture, John Roberts, Alito....EVERYTHING they wanted, they got...is that incompentency?

I think * ACTS like a 'bubba' who isn't all that smart so he can get all the Angry White Males to vote for him...but I think it's an ACT. He is very very good at being deceitful. I don't think he's incompetent. I think he's evil....and so is Rove. They are very good at destruction...in fact, they are supremely competent at destruction.

And maybe Karma is finally going to catch up with them. I sure the f*ck hope so.

Remember right after Katrina and Rove was nowhere to be seen...and it turned out he had kidney stones and was in the hospital? Don't kidney stones usually come back? I understand they are extremely painful. No one could deserve them more.

Last...w/o DeLay, maybe the house of cards is starting to collapse????
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is the smartest thread on the page.
Great thoughts whether one believes it or not. This is the kind of ideas that DU needs to see more of.

K & R!
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. Fascinating - and plausible K&R n/t
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
39. I think you give Rove far too much credit.
it's far easier to think of Democrats doing nothing because of some Sword of Damocles being held over their heads than to think of Democrats as - in large part - cowardly and ineffective, lazy, greedy, and content with the status-quo. In other words - CONSERVATIVE. Indeed, they have much more in common with Rove than they have in differences.

I don't deny the possibility of your post. But the mythology of Rove knows no bounds, just as the intoxication of power on the right knows no bounds - which results in things like this happening.

It is a testament to how beaten up we are, we entertain thoughts about how Rove may have engineered this disaster that has occured in their ranks - and somehow used it for his benefit. A benefit that eludes us yet we search for it, it must be there we tell ourselves.

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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
40. Interesting. I don't agree in this case, but I see nothing wrong with
speculating about all possibilities.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. The Warentless Wiretapping was not necessary unless
the taps were ones that would not have been approved by the FISA Court. That is at least 32 Unlawfull taps. The reasons for these Unlawful taps is unknown. One can only speculate that they were NOT taps on people that were suspected terrorists.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
41. i'm impressed. a "long shot" (movie terminology) that seems to capture a
good deal of what might be reality.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
45. What someone else said, I think DELAY may be the key to this thing.
DeLay, not Rove, was behind keeping Foley in office when he wanted to retire in 2004 due to the rumors swirling around him.

DeLay was the one implicated in Abramoff's dealings with the Marianas sex-and-sweatshops crime ring that ran the provincial government under US authority.

DeLay is the one who took Congressmen and Hill staffers on Marianas junkets, courtesy of Abramoff.

Rove was just sitting back, collecting information.

Was Foley along for one of DeLay's junkets?

Hmmm. Something that needs exploring. It could hit huge.

Anyone up for some research on this?
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
46. I sort of agree
The aspens are turning on the Republicans, big time.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-06-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
47. Bump n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-06-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
48. O'Donnell, Cox discuss Velvet Mafia patronage/BLACKMAIL network
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2323080

O'DONNELL: But Joe, this is very, very important piece of the story. This is going to be part of where we track the information about how it flowed. And it' going to be a very important question on the staff level, not necessarily on the elected level. But people are going—Republican base is going to be shocked

SCARBOROUGH: And I...

O‘DONNELL: ...when they discover within a week where the closetted gay men are positioned in this story who have not yet been revealed.

SCARBOROUGH: And Ana, you were talking about--earlier with me--we were talking about the fact that the Republican Party has some issues on the gay issue.

ANA MARIE COX, WASHINGTON EDITOR, TIME.COM: They do. (The Republicans) have a kind of split personality about it. On the one hand, they have a base who is largely, not to be put too fine point on it, pretty homophobic, and they really count on that. They got out the vote by campaigning against gay marriage in the past few years.

And on the other hand, they have a somewhat more sophisticated, somewhat more worldly, let's say, elected leadership who not only know gay people but know gay Republicans and work with gay Republicans. And Lawrence is right. At the staff level, the House has quite a few gay people. And those are the people—are the "Velvet Mafia" of the House, of the Hill, and those are the people that are counted on to keep the other closeted members of Congress and staff members in line, and that is how they tried to deal with Foley this time around.
. . .

SCARBOROUGH: Lawrence O'Donnell, I think the Republican Party is doomed. I think even if they throw Denny Hastert overboard, that does absolutely nothing to save him. What do you say?

O'DONNELL: I agree with you, Joe. This is one of those things where there‘s no good political choice to make. The story is completely out of control.

I just want to stress, today it moved to the staff level. It's going to stay now at the staff level for the next news cycle. This is now a very, very important staff credibility issue. The battle between Kirk Fordham and Scott Palmer, who, as reported in the initial report tonight on your show--Scott Palmer, chief of staff for Denny Hastert, who is denying, very specifically denying that he was ever told that there was a problem with Foley by Fordham. Now, that is a crucial--those two guys are going to become the stars of this story over the next couple of days, and it's going to make the story something different.
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