68% in this conservative area say we are not winning the Iraq War.

[madfloridian]

This poll gives me new hope in this very conservative, fundamentalist area of Florida. It is a phone-in poll in the print version of the paper, and I scanned it.

So while the Republicans and many of our Democrats are excoriating Howard Dean for saying it....68% in this poll say it is not being won.



Here is the online poll which is about the same.
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=POLLARCHIVE&ShowCategory=OPINION

On Edit...I did not think I had to point out that every poll can be skewed, that I am not dumb, and I am aware of that. I made the mistake of posting it without all the usual disclaimers. I had forgotten that I can not just post something...I must only present fact while others don't have to do so. So the thread is messed up, just like all my posts are now. I should have known better.

[ISUGRADIA]

1. Any poll where the sample is self selected is not scientific

and cannot be claimed to represent public opinion.

Polls are freeped and DUed all the time so I'd take any results with a huge grain of salt.

[madfloridian]

3. Ok...

whatever you say. One thing, though, is that this paper will call out groups who try to skew it. They caught some groups doing one and called them out by name.

It is usually skewed to the right, though, because of all the bible colleges in this county. Four, I think.

[ISUGRADIA]

6. I'm not trying to be troublesome by the way, just stating a core

tenant of statistics. With the internet and free long distance on cell phones even local phone in polls are prone to outside manipulation.

[madfloridian]

8. It is no more skewed than polls phoning homes.

I am sorry, but I have taken lengthy phone polls...and they screw up the questions until there is no good way to answer.

[MrBenchley]

13. Wonder if there was a "Please DU this poll" thread?

[NewJeffCT]

2. well, don't forget last year

Bush himself said that we couldn't win the war.

[MrBenchley]

4. Yeah, THAT's a plus...

Howard Dean blurts out as many stupid things as pResident Turd does! Yippee!!!!

[madfloridian]

7. Wow, Benchley..you said "turd?" you outdid yourself on that one.

Did not take long for you to find this.

And you compared Dean to President Bush...good going.

"Howard Dean blurts out as many stupid things as pResident Turd does! Yippee!!!!"

[MrBenchley]

9. Hey, it always makes me laugh like helll

when you guys bring up pResident Turd's gaffe as justification for Howard Dean fucking up.

[madfloridian]

11. Like the war the "president turd" started? You call the war a gaffe?

Congratulations on truly messing up this thread. Good job...Benchley.

[MrBenchley]

12. Don't cry to me

[madfloridian]

22. I am glad you deleted that.

It was not good or kind or Democratic.

[NewJeffCT]

17. so, you're saying the war can be won?

if you're saying that dean screwed up?

[madfloridian]

18. It is not really about Dean.

That is the point. Most likely to be sure my point about a local poll is obscured by attacks...so people avoid the thread.

Hey happens all the time.

[madfloridian]

5. Clarify....I am not stupid.. Any poll can be skewed.

This one is usually skewed to the right because of all the bible colleges in this area. This goes along with what I see on the ground here...people are getting disillusioned with the war and many with Bush as well.

There is just no outlet for their opinions really.

[DFLforever]

10. That makes sense. The people of our country

- and Howard Dean, are usually way ahead of the political herd.

[madfloridian]

14. Yes, it makes sense. But do you see.....

how it is done? Jump all over the messenger who scanned the poll from the print edition...and showed the online poll being similar...never claimed it was scientific

See how it is done? Make sure the thread is ugly enough that no one really wants to post in it, and make sure the poster is made to sound foolish.

Thanks for having the nerve to post.

[madfloridian]

15. Is the Christmas War silly? The polls in this paper said No.

Polk Pulse for Sunday, December 25, 2005 Is the "Christmas War" silly?
Number of votes cast: 818



Why did I post this? Just to show mindset. Just to not let some people screw up my thread all the time.

[madfloridian]

16. Should schools teach ID in biology classes? Yes.

Polk Pulse for Wednesday, December 21, 2005 Should school teach "intelligent design" in biology classes?




In fact they already do this, and the school superintendent has said they will continue.

[madfloridian]

19. A bunch of letters from the last two weeks.....

Just posting them because I feel it is important to show a mindset in this area. People are confused, but they are seeing more clearly now that they have been lied to and misused by this administration.

I believe the poll I posted is a pretty good indication of how people overall are feeling here. I thought I would share these letters from the last two weeks as well.

Nation Splits, Soldiers Die
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051229/NEWS/512290358/1037/EDIT04

Straight Talk
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051228/NEWS/512280322/1037/EDIT04

Iraq War Not about Freedom
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051228/NEWS/512280323/1037/EDIT04

Conscience of the King
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051226/NEWS/512260314/1037/EDIT04

Secret Pentagon Planners
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051225/NEWS/512250402/1037/EDIT04

We Are Americans, Now Let's Act Like It And Ban Torture
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051224/NEWS/512240326/1037/EDIT04

Putnam's Cowardly Acts Limit His Future
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051222/NEWS/512220335/1037/EDIT04Rep.

What's to Win in Iraq?
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051221/NEWS/512210308/1037/EDIT04

Worst President Ever
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051220/NEWS/512200313/1037/EDIT04

President Instills Fear
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051217/NEWS/512160450/1037/EDIT04

Big Brother Lives as GOP
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051216/NEWS/512160381/1037/EDIT04

[globalvillage]

20. This is a good one.

Polk Pulse for Sunday, December 11, 2005
Could you vote for a Democratic candidate Florida governor in 2006?



Thanks for posting, madfloridian.

[madfloridian]

21. I like that one. People are coming alive here in many ways.

But the preponderance of bible colleges here, the huge number of Baptist churches, a few megachurches, have made it hard to get anything going.

But there are changes. I believe this poll that was only by phone, and one online the same day are very indicative.

I am tired of my threads being jumped to make people leery of posting, and I am tired of our Democrats who are afraid of words that are clear and truthful. I expect the Republicans to be ugly toward us, but I do not expect the same of our Democrats.

[globalvillage]

23. I like seeing evidence that the sheeple are waking up.

Gives me some hope.
The churches are a challenge, although they should not be since most of our values are what they are supposed to profess. That message just doesn't seem to translate, though.
And you're right about the ugly attacks on our own, but I think that if we didn't post what we believe for fear of being jumped, DU would be a couple dozen people talking to themselves.

[madfloridian]

24. And a page from Tampa Tribune, mostly anti-war, anti-Bush letters.

In fact, on a quick reading, I only see one in favor of Bush. Since this is a very right wing paper, just thought I would add this as well.

http://www.tbo.com/news/opinion/lettertotheeditor/MGBA7OQJRHE.html

Samples of the letters:

"He accuses those who broke his secrecy instead of admitting he was stealthily spying on anybody and everybody. He calls folks who want to get out of Iraq "defeatists," while he bravely touts that he'll "stay the course" while at no risk to himself, his children or any of his cronies' children. Is that the opposite of defeatist? He accused everybody but himself for what has gone wrong and taken credit for everything that has gone right! I'd hardly call that humble.

He still seems to be able to at least convince his Republican supporters that when he says he's humble, he really means he's aggressive."

Another:
"Big Brother Government

We find out George Bush repeatedly authorized the National Security Agency to conduct domestic surveillance without asking for court warrants. Meanwhile, in April 2004 in Buffalo, N.Y., Bush said the government does not wiretap without a court order.

This is the guy who invaded Iraq under false pretense, holding prisoners for years without a trial, tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Of course, the lower guys in the military took the blame. Of course, Bush says we don't torture. Why in the world would we need secret prisons?"

And one more:
"Recall Our Military

During his speech on Dec. 19, the president stated, in reference to the Sept. 11 attacks, "I will do everything in my power to keep it from happening again."

The surest way to prevent future terrorist attacks in the United States is to recall all American military forces from all foreign nations. Granted, Iraq must be left (relatively) stabilized, as that is our unfortunate responsibility. But we have troops stationed in more than 130 countries. The rest of the world rightfully perceives our foreign policy as interventionism at the least, if not outright imperialism

I urge the president - not as a dissenting Libertarian, but as a concerned American - to put an end to our global military presence. As commander in chief, he alone has the power to deprive terrorists of their most valuable asset: Their cause."