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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 08:46 AM
Original message
Are we being spied on? The Proof..
Recently, I began to notice that emails from some of my more activist friends began to have some additional information in the message header.
Doing some investigation, I found that DHS requires that emails from approved computers include this information as a means to verify the accuracy and source of the message. So what were these people doing what I thought was corresponding from an approved computer? Were they agent provocateurs of the New World Order?

I have a number of freebie email accounts as most here do, so I decided to check my accounts to see if any of them have this information attached. The email accounts that I use for innocuous traffic such as one that I use to exchange gardening information didn't have it, but ones that I use to correspond with activist friends did. My conclusion is that someone is using this to track accounts of interest in order to create a social network analysis tool for their databases. Proof my friends that we are being spied on, even if all we are is politically active and have nothing to do with terrorism. It also proves that Fearless Leader's proposals to create laws allowing him to spy on terrorists is nothing more than a sham.

this is what the information looks like:
DomainKey-Signature:
a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received :Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IRn6iPOFvBb+ao0jBOLXTD7p/mjipVBWbqJi4fKIf/oTd/znIbdk3mPZsdHkUNQ9msn2SZ9d0miiozf/YTv4Huipxnh1z6kKh1bMinQmS9+XP4e7+yDF4/CSokIFCf1mnLGw57w0YvPh0PXDNXAS5gmM88QQf/Yp7uCpzeQrxyg= ;
Each will have a unique 'HASH' that can be used do several things. Ensuring the message hasn't been modified is one, but your password can also be extracted form this information, by anyone with the right commercially available software.

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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. No kidding. I never believed the bushes would stop
at the terrorists. They are keeping a data base of "activists" so when this new torture act passes, they have a list of people to "collect".
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exactly
just like extracting info from excel. Print me a list of names with everyone associated with x.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. As soon as they started talking about "going after the terrorists", I
pointed out that they would be labeling teachers, environmentalists, and other "leftie" types as "terrorists" - with Rush leading the rewriting of the definitions ...
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. I don't believe they
STARTED with terrorists. I believe this whole unwarrented spying is solely for the purpose of gathering info on political opponents and dissenters.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Bingo! It has NEVER really been about any "terrorists".
That's just the phony reason to do what they are doing.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. Just click your heels,
and do the Hitler salute to these Nazi fukwads. And that's exactly what they are. "Terrorists" my ass.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Guess we are all on the W list, "waterboard," and no it has no
connection to skiing.
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. Just remember the phrase
Enemy of the State.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I guess that's me.
Like I really give a fuck.
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Cygnusx2112 Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. Do you ever wonder if they do...
or can, keep track of how people vote in these online polls (cnn, msnbc, aol etc.)?


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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Soon we will all have a computerized dossier
that shows everything we've ever done that they can connect to.

If you want to keep something private, don't use the Internet.

I think DOD allowed the public to use the Internet for this very reason. Why do wiretaps when you can filter Internet traffic?

I'm just offended that I even have to worry about it.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Then some idiot will lose the laptop with all that info on it
Like they do with every important database. But then they'll find it and reassure us it wasn't accessed :crazy:
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insanerepubs Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. No comment
:eyes:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Honey Trap
...meets the 21st century. They know who we are, where we live, with whom we communicate and what we talk about.

They are traitors and using all the powers of their offices to create a totalitarian state. Dissent, as demonstrated by their actions, will not be tolerated. We must use the time we have to spread the Truth about them.

Remember Mark Lombardi? The artist used his art to chronicle the BFEE social networks:



george w. bush, harken energy, and jackson stevens c.1979-90, 5th version, 1999
graphite on paper
20 x 44 inches


http://www.pierogi2000.com/flatfile/lombardi.html

Here's a close-up showing the ties between James R Bath, George W Bush and the House of bin Laden:



Lombardi was "suicided" about 18 months before 9-11.

Thanks for the heads-up, formercia. Much obliged for the materials to add to the case file of these un-American turds.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Great Examples, thanks.
good work.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Art. Life.
Traitor. Liberator.

Who imitates Whom?

Lombardi was one of the good guys.



ObsessiveGenerous"

Toward a Diagram of Mark Lombardi


by Frances Richard

EXCERPT...

Significantly, these "real-world" responses often involve law enforcement personnel, corporate-style institutions, and journaliststhe very professionals whose information vocabularies Lombardi "pillaged." Stone tells, for example, about the time he brought a friend who wrote for the Wall Street Journal to see George W. Bush, Harken Energy and Jackson Stephens.

    He was rivetedhe knew every character. He stood there poring over it for forty minutes murmuring "Oh, my God" Then he went back to his office and looked it upthe Journal had reported on the link between Bush and bin Laden, and Mark probably got his information from that article. But my friend said he hadn't fully understood the implications until he saw it all laid out that way.


Painter David Brody invited his cousin, a private investigator, to see the Pierogi show. "He was fascinated because, as he told me, 'This is exactly the kind of thing I do when I'm on a case.' " Joe Amrhein, meanwhile, recounts the story of an unnamed corporate art collection whose enthusiasm waned suddenly:

    They were very excited about acquiring the work until their legal department had a look at it. Then they had to back off, because some of the names that appeared in the piece were sitting on their board of directors.


Most spectacularly, Whitney curator Lawrence Rinder, who brought BCCI-ICIC-FAB into the Museum, reports that "one curious event involving this piece occurred recently when, following the September 11th attacks, the FBI requested permission to examine it." Rinder does not discuss the agents' findings. But the picture of federal authorities trooping through the Whitney to read Lombardi's rendering of history blurs the always wobbly art/life line into an infinite regression, a situation Lombardi would undoubtedly have appreciated.

CONTINUED...

http://www.wburg.com/0202/arts/lombardi.html



The diagrams are amazing analytical tools. Helps the hologram we carry around on our shoulders, too.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'd like some proof of your claims...
THe hash uniquely identifies the message, but, password extraction and other claims you're making don't fit in to my world view ;)

Please enlighten me.

-Hoot
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. So Solly
When I get a round tuit.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. OK, there ya go.
http://www.insidepro.com/eng/passwordspro.shtml

sorry if I kept you waiting... :)
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Ok. Just because it's a hash doesn't mean there's a password in it.
To get a password out of a hash, you have to put one in it to begin with. But technically you can't get anything 'out' of a hash directly.

I agree that these are used to track emails, that is why it was created, to track spam and hopefully shut down spammers.

Hashes are funny little algorithims that produce a unique value for any given string and thus are used by lots of systems to store passwords without actually storing the password. Hashes in general are not reverseable so obtaining the hash will not give away the password. The only way to get a password (or any string) that generated a particular hash is to encode that password using the same hash algorithm, comparing it to the known hash value and remember what you passed in, which is a technique the software you link to is probably using.

SO, tracking, yes. Passwords, I highly doubt it.

Cheers,
-Hoot
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. You make a good argument
and since I don't go around cracking passwords, its a conspiracy theory on my part. You're right, there has to be a password input at some point.
Perhaps we can coax one of the lurking NSA types to supply a little input here.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Do you have any links for us to verify that the DomainKey
Signature actually means DHS is monitoring that email account? I looked through quite a few email headers, and found that line on all emails from Yahoo accounts, including emails from decidedly non-political people. I'm wondering whether it might have more to do with Yahoo.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. From Wikipedia, on domain keys....
DomainKeys is a method of E-mail authentication. Unlike some other methods, it offers almost end-to-end integrity from a signing to a verifying Mail transfer agent (MTA). In most cases the signing MTA acts on behalf of the sender, and the verifying MTA on behalf of the receiver.

DomainKeys is independent of Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) routing aspects in that it operates on the RFC 2822 message -- i.e., the transported mail data, header and body -- not the SMTP envelope defined in RFC 2821.

Note that DomainKeys does not prevent abusive behavior; rather, it allows abuse to be tracked and detected more easily. This ability to prevent some forgery also has benefits for recipients of E-mails as well as senders, and "DomainKey awareness" is programmed into some E-mail software.

Since 2004, Yahoo! has signed all of its outgoing E-mail with DomainKeys and is verifying all incoming mail. As of 2005, Yahoo! reports that the number of DomainKeys-verified e-mail they receive exceeds 300 million messages per day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Not all messages have domain keys attached
but there were a greater percentage of messages from activists that had domain keys than from messages from innocuous sources.

They can use it to track abuse or for any other reason, including social networks. If they are, the NSA is not going to confirm it.
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. But according to Wiki, all messages sent through Yahoo do.
I'm not saying they can't, or don't, use the domain keys for nefarious purposes. I'm just not sure how we can ever tell what they're doing with the domain keys (or whether they're targeted at activists' email accounts), when domain keys are so commonly used by major email providers. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.
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RandiRhodesArchives Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Try this: www.dnsstuff.com
http://www.dnsstuff.com

Go to the right side, and the second thing from the top called Traceroute, put in NSA.GOV and I just did this, and got FIVE, yes 5, of the relays for my internet connection, are going through "unknown.att.net" (their italics, NOT mine) and we all know about the San Francisco ATT "secret" office, so what does that tell you? Try it for yourselves, I am willing to be the results aren't much different from mine. We ALL are being spied on, and it is WRONG and MUST STOP!

Here's my tribute to Bush and the NSA:
TERROR! 9/11! IMPEACH! RANDI RHODES! OSAMA RULES! JAIL BUSH!
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dapper Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. I hope you're joking
Tracert is a command to see how many "hops" it takes to get to the source.

"Tracert yahoo.com" would show you how many "hops" it takes to get to Yahoo.

A hop would be a server, network, router...etc

Here is an example when I used Tracert on Yahoo.com (I took the first 4 hops out to protect my network)
5 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms 12.117.169.101
6 21 ms 22 ms 22 ms tbr2-p012401.dtrmi.ip.att.net <12.123.139.142>
7 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms tbr2-cl18.cgcil.ip.att.net <12.122.10.134>
8 21 ms 20 ms 21 ms ggr2-p3120.cgcil.ip.att.net <12.123.6.69>
9 20 ms 21 ms 18 ms 192.205.33.186
10 781 ms * 26 ms ae-31-53.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.net <4.68.101.94>

11 * 30 ms * ae-1-100.ebr2.Chicago1.Level3.net <4.69.132.42>

12 * * * Request timed out.
13 35 ms 35 ms 36 ms ae-21-52.car1.Washington1.Level3.net <4.68.121.5[br />]
14 35 ms 35 ms 33 ms 4.79.228.2
15 36 ms 35 ms 35 ms ge-0-0-0-p110.msr2.dcn.yahoo.com <216.115.108.5>

16 36 ms 38 ms 34 ms ge6-1.bas2-m.dcn.yahoo.com <216.109.120.221>
17 37 ms 36 ms 35 ms w2.rc.vip.dcn.yahoo.com <216.109.112.135>

Trace complete.

There are a great deal of unknown hosts (not on mine) because not everyone uses DNS Names, they may use IP Addresses.

Dap
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vogonity Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
22. What is an "approved computer?"
Or maybe a better question is what is an unapproved computer?
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Interesting.....I'm using a proxy server and......
DNSStuff.com won't let me onto their website. When I switch to a direct connection, it will. Makes me nervous....and makes me unwilling to use the site!
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Regulations regarding emails and file transfers from
goverment computers are pretty well defined and the computers have approved hardware and software.

Have you ever heard of TEMPEST?

Computers that store classified information have tight controls on how they are used.

The PC you order from Wally World would probably not pass the criteria.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Like the "enemies" list that Nixon had. And Hoover's list.
Don't forget that a lot of the former Nixon people are involved and/or working for this admin. (Cheney and Rumsfeld).
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. It's nothing to do with being spied upon.
This is just a means to authenticate that the email sent is really from who it is. All Yahoo!, Earthlink web mail and Google Mail (Gmail) accounts will have the DomainKey.

It doesn't mean though that your email hasn't been intercepted by a third party.

If you don't like DomainKey then the best thing to do is switch to an email provider that doesn't use DomainKey.

Mark.
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ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. I work in the email industry... DomainKeys are NOT for spying... good god
DomainKeys are a powerful new anti-spam tool that Yahoo has designed. Here is how it works...

Each messages is "signed" by a private key. The public key for the sending domain is published in the sending domain's DNS as a TXT record. When your ISP's mail server gets the message, it looks in the sender's DNS for the public key. If the public key can authenticate the signature of the email with the public key, it's valid. If the signature cannot be verified, it's considered a spoof/spam -- as the spammer would need to have the private key in order to authenticate.

This hash is just that -- a hash. It's not encrypted data that includes your passwords.

Good heavens, people...
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yeah.
I didn't have the particulars, but I tried to debunk it above.

-Hoot
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. How dare you interrupt a perfectly good Tech-mo-logical freakout?
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Hey - can I get infected by an e-mail even if I don't download pictures or
open an attachment. Can I get infected just viewing a web-site? I'm a mainframe programmer and I feel very stupid, but what is the difference between a worm and a virus? What activities can I avoid to stay safe? I've had the same e-mail forever, and I'm usually on dial-up. Although lately I've been staying at a hotel with high speed wireless (unsecured) and I logged onto that to download some songs from MTV's URGE - and watch Olbermann's video on MSNBC. If you want to respond with a link - that'd be good too.

Thanks!
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dapper Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. How Safe?
A Hotel Wireless connection that does not have encryption leaves you wide open, unless they use some sort of encryption method, usually they are encrypted if they give you a "Key" to enter. I don't want to get too technical but if someone wanted to get onto an encrypted wireless network, they could probably find a way. I never do my banking or go to sites using personal information on any network that I do not know. I know my home network is safe and that's the only place I will use my personal information.

You can get viruses from messages if you open attachments. I would say never open an attachment from someone you don't know but with viruses lately, an email header can be forged showing that the message was sent from your friend. I have an anti-virus program that scans my messages as they come in.

When I installed Windows XP on my son's computer, I started downloading the updates and went to sleep, the next morning I woke up and could not connect to the internet. I did a scan and just by not having the firewall up, I had about 30 worm viruses. I'm glad I had already purchased the virus software. After I did the Windows updates, those security holes were fixed. So, you guys definately also want to perform your windows updates.

I'm not trying to scare anyone but your best defense is, like I said in a previous message, is to arm yourself with Anti-Virus, Anti-Spy, Firewall software and you might as well get an Ad Detection/Removal program. You can probably find them pre-packaged together. Nothing is 100% but it's pretty much close to it.

Dap
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Thanks!
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. No.
At least, not from what you describe.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. This is Why I am Against the Spying
As long as they spy on Democrats & other progressives, I will not accept the wiretapping. The American public only wanted them to spy on terrorists. They have gone well beyond that, & it is wrong in a country that is supposed to be a democracy.

Tammy
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dapper Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. Tin Foil anyone?
Domain Key's is not a government spying tool, tracert is basically a utility to troubleshoot connection issues and is used to troubleshoot other various issues.

If the govt wanted to spy on you they can just filter your TCP/IP Packets. Just like a hacker can put a keylogger on your computer or an unscrupulous company can add ad/spy software on your computer.

If you want to prevent some of the crap get a good anti-virus software, get firewall software, get an Ad removal/spy removal software. Stop downloading crap like Weather Bug, Comet Cursor and other Free Utilities.

If a "hacker" really wanted to get your information, there are many tools they can use to gain that information, just as the Government probably has their own "hacks". The above items will definately help you but it's not fool proof.

Relax people. It is so amazing, as an IT Tech, how if someones monitor blinks, they will contact support and tell us they have a virus. Relax.

Dap
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