Government says... Thou shalt not record Free Speech TV any more!

[cascadiance]

... on your Dish Network PVR. Apparently Dish Network is being told they have to turn off their PVR service to customers (I'm hoping they CAN'T turn off my PVR) I guess they will allow DirecTV to buy up TIVO and use THAT monopoly to try and force Dish Network out of business instead of trying to go through anti-trust concerns to buy up Dish Network, like they were trying to do earlier. Folks, Murdoch is on the war path! We're in danger of losing stuff like Free Speech TV and Link TV (that gives us Democracy Now, etc.). We need to call our senators and congress people and not allow this to happen! If they are going to force Dish Network to drop THEIR DVR, then I would think DirectTV should be FORCED to allow TIVO to be sold and integrated into Dish Network systems too. Otherwise it's an unfair competitive advantage that gives them a monopoly! Either way, we'll be forced to get new receivers (I JUST replaced mine a few weeks ago!).

Dish Network IS the blue company here, and it's about to get screwed, and screw us satellite TV viewers along with it.

From:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2006/tc20060818_359849.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives

AUGUST 18, 2006
Technology
By Ronald Grover

Loud-and-Clear Verdict Rattles EchoStar
The satellite TV operator contemplates next steps after the latest federal court ruling against EchoStar's DVR service

If you're Charlie Ergen, you live by the sword and you die by the sword. The controversial CEO of satellite operator EchoStar Communications (DISH) has made a history of filing—and often winning—lawsuits against competitors, patent holders, and even once against a short-lived merger partner, Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. (NWS).

Now, Ergen is learning what it is like to be on the receiving end of one of those suits. On Aug. 17, a federal district court ruled that EchoStar must turn off its popular digital video recorder service in as many as 20% of the 12.5 million homes to which it supplies satellite TV signals.

HEFTY BILL. The federal court decision requires EchoStar to pay roughly $90 million in damages as well as to stop selling DVRs that the court had earlier ruled violated patents held by TiVo (TIVO). What's more, the ruling also requires EchoStar to turn off existing DVR service within 30 days. Although EchoStar has won a federal appeals court injunction against the award, it still faces the specter of Dish having to turn off as many as 4 million DVRs, figures Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. analyst Craig E. Moffett. That would make EchoStar customers easy pickings for satellite competitor DirecTV or cable.

And Ergen faces another potential legal nightmare. A federal appeals court in Atlanta has ruled that by Sept. 11 Echostar's Dish Network must stop sending signals from local TV stations to an estimated 800,000 of its subscribers in small towns that don't have their own local stations. The so-called violation of the federal government's so-called "distant network signal" could cost Echostar as much as $50 million a year, figures Jimmy Schaeffler, chairman of digital media consultants The Carmel Group, but more importantly could send as many as 20% of Dish's subscribers over to DirecTV. "That's another $100 million or more a year and those subscribers won't come back," says Schaeffler. Ergen has been trying to negotiate a settlement with the broadcasters for months.
...

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. bastids!!

Why do they hate free speech?!

Because it injures their cause, that's why! :mad:

[KT2000]

2. Small towner here

with no local station - so that is screwed up!!

Are they trying to put EchoStar out of business so Direct has everything?

Back to the rabbit ears. At least I will get Canadian stations.

[Imagevision]

27. Just get a tv-tuner card (ATI-Elite) and record whatever you want

thru your computer save to DVD and the beat goes on...ha!

[NMDemDist2]

3. ahhh crap

I DVR Amy Goodman every day!!

I'm calling tomorrow!

[The Sushi Bandit]

4. kick

[annabanana]

5. k&r. . . . . n/t

[GeorgeGist]

6. Murdoch rules...

again.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. Murdoch is not the problem here.

The cable company monopolies are the problem. And as much as I admire Ergen, I've got to admit that he's played this whole thing very badly. With respect to the TiVo patent, Echostar was quite obviously in violation. Ergen could have settled, but he didn't, so now he's getting his ass kicked in court, and it's his own goddamn fault.

As for the government trying to put Echostar out of business or force a merger with Murdoch, that's bullshit. Ergen thought he could get away with not playing by the rules, and he lost, plain and simple. He's made several bad errors in judgement, and if Echostar goes down the drain it will be the fault of the cable monopolies and Ergen himself, not Murdoch or the government.

[BlueEyedSon]

8. I don't see the how "no DVR = out of biz" for Dish.

What % of Dish subscribers use the Dish DVR device? There is still plenty of money to be made on DBS alone.

Also:
What about everyone one else who sells DVR technology? Is TiVo going after them too? What's up with ReplayTV?

[michreject]

9. I agree

I have a Panasonic DVD recorded that has a 80 gig hard drive It allows me to record up to 120 hours of stuff. It allows me to watch while recording. Pause recording and chase video. All same as a TIVO without fees.

[NYCGirl]

10. It's not NEARLY the same as TiVo, but a nice thing. NT

[BlueEyedSon]

19. From what I read, the Dish PVR ain't nothin like TiVo, neither!

[Rosco T.]

21. Yeah... TIVO's WORK. n/m

[Xithras]

31. I WILL switch.

I'm a Dish DVR user myself, and my TV watching habits are completely dependent on the DVR. I NEVER watch shows at their airtime.

If Dish can no longer offer DVR service (and no, you cannot hook up a 3rd party DVR like Tivo to a Dish receiver), I'll switch to someone who can. Like tomorrow. DVR and television is like abortion and politics to me. It's a yes/no dealbreaker when deciding which candidate to support.

[cascadiance]

32. Rupert Murdoch is counting on folks like you!

To fuel his drive towards owning the satellite communications monopoly.

[Xithras]

34. Well, it's DirectTV or Comcast.

Comcast may be a bit bluer than DirecTV, but around here their service reliability is problematic, they are outrageously expensive ($100+ a month for a digital service with DVR and channels matching what I have now), and they have been constantly fighting to get rid of our public access stations.

In my books, both companies are abhorrent, so I will go with the company that at least provides a lower price and better service. If that is DirecTV, it can't be helped.

I've been a loyal Dish Network subscriber since installing my original Dish 300 system back in 1998 (still have it out in the garage), but PVR service has become too important to me. I'm not a slave to my TV, and only watch it now because I have the ability to record and watch shows when its convenient to me. I have home decorating programs recorded from two years ago detailing specific projects that I want to do to my house. I have more than a dozen cooking shows recorded detailing dishes that I want to try out. My wife records her soap opera every day, because she's at work and can't watch it. I have the last two episodes of the 4400, and the last three Stargate Atlantis shows recorded because I haven't had a chance to watch them yet. I will watch them when I have time, but it's on MY schedule, not the networks. I could never go back to the old way of watching TV now.

If Dish can't offer PVR service, I can't use Dish. It's that simple. If that benefits people we don't like, it's unfortunate, but it can't be helped. Dish should have paid for the patents when they had the chance.

[cascadiance]

37. If Dish can't have it's own PVR service but DirecTV can, that's a problem.

... that we should all confront. I know I also sacrificed Sirius Satellite radio and bought into XM to continue getting Air America in a similar strategic move that you made, but in addition to doing what we need to do to address our personal needs, we need to attack this "selective" attack on Dish Network and either stop it in its tracks, or make sure as consumers that the law is equally enforced on ALL media providers, not just Dish. Otherwise, this pattern will repeat itself, and the media consolidation will continue without mergers, but by forcing competitors out of business with selective enforcement of certain laws on some companies and not others.

[Rosco T.]

48. DISH can have a PVR service.. just DON'T STEAL THE TECHNOLOGY..

why are you having problems with preventing people from stealing?

[cascadiance]

55. Then why isn't TIVO suing NDS foir stealing their technology?

[Rosco T.]

57. BECAUSE DIRECTV(Newscorp) OWN NDS!!!!!!

use some common sense here please.

[cascadiance]

60. When DirecTV first entered into partnership with NewsCorp...

There WAS ownership stake by Newscorp in TiVO. Now, do you think Echostar, when that was the time to make investments in DVR development, should have licensed technology from TiVO, THEN owned by a competitor? Since then, I'm now noting articles that DirecTV has divested it's ownership of TiVO, and moved to own NDS, which probably didn't have any patents to compete with Tivo then. Oh Boy they say... Now that DirecTV bought us, we don't have to worry about infringing on Tivo's patents, and we can help Directv put them out of business and along with DirecTV have a monopoly on satellite DVRs. If in order to do any sort of licensing with Tivo, you also had to buy a big ownership stake in them, then I can see why Echostar might have said no then.

Now did the deal that Tivo did with Newscorp also allow Newscorp's owned companies ALSO to not worry about patent infringement? I would think that TIVO might wish to be more concerned about a potentially more direct big competitor of theirs (NDS) having access to use their patents without any compensation to them, than they would be worried about a potential customer of theirs (Echostar) who isn't just an HD DVR provider. Later, they'll probably also have to sue Microsoft too, for their plans to enter this market. This is all about a company getting litigous happy going after the low hanging fruit instead of the "big boys" at the customers' expense. I've seen it before with other companies too, which I'm not at liberty to discuss.

[Rosco T.]

49. Comcast is in the process of rolling out TIVO based DVR's...

another hole in the 'great conspiracy of Murdoch owning Tivo' rethoric... if he did, why would he let a cable company get the tech???


http://news.com.com/TiVo,+Comcast+reach+DVR+deal/2100-1041_3-5616961.html

TiVo, Comcast reach DVR deal
By Richard Shim
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Published: March 15, 2005, 12:12 PM PST

The companies announced the agreement on Tuesday, saying they're working to make TiVo's DVR service and interactive advertising capability available over Comcast's cable network. The first of their co-developed products will be available in mid- to late-2006 and will use the TiVo brand. Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed, but the alliance is nonexclusive.

(more)

[Rosco T.]

47. MURDOCH DOES NOT OWN TIVO.

please stop spreading disinformation.

[Rosco T.]

39. ER... yes you CAN hook a TiVo up to a Dish Receiver..

or a DirecTV or just about anything else (I have one hooked up to a Starchoice receviver). You just won't be able to record two things at once.

[cascadiance]

42. Why should I be forced to buy both, and DirecTV customers not!

That's not equal competition. Not to mention me having to dump my old receiver I have now to get a newer one. TIVO is not enforcing their patents on DirecTV's new PVR's. That can't be ignored if one wants to foster fair competition in the marketplace. Perhaps one could work a deal that Dish Network would be allowed to continue to sell their existing DVRs and work an agreement of selling some newer TiVO-based receivers too and do it in a similar way with similar pricing that TiVO has with DirecTV. That way, everyone would stay happy, except Rupert Murdoch, not getting his chance to have his monopoly by killing Dish. If he has DirecTV then pull their investment from TiVO and TiVO loses from that, then TiVO has to recognize that if they want to be an independent supplier in the marketplace of "their" technology to other vendors besides DirecTV, then that will be a necessary step to do so.

[Rosco T.]

44. PAY ATTENTION WHY DON"T YOU????

DIRECTV LICENSED THE TIVO TECH. THERE IS NO VIOLATION OF PATENTS. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? DIRECTV FOLLOWED THE LEGAL ROUTE AND LICENESED THE TECH. DISH STOLE IT.

[Xithras]

59. Here's why (and a mutually beneficial resolution, if Tivo is smart)

Murdoch was smart. He initially PAID Tivo for their technology, and today nearly half of Tivo's customers are using DirecTV. When DirecTV decided to make their own DVR, they made an agreement with Tivo...Tivo wouldn't sue DirecTV if DirecTV agreed not to market their new DVR to current Tivo customers.

If Tivo sues DirecTV, Murdoch will instantly spin a promotion to move their two million Tivo using customers onto the DirecTV DVR. Losing half of their customer base would be financially devastating to Tivo.

Plus, DirecTV DOES still have a paid contract with Tivo.

I do agree though, that Tivo needs to ink an royalty agreement with Dish. I have no problem, as a DishPVR customer, paying a small (SMALL!) fee to Tivo to compensate them for using their patented technology, but shutting the DishDVR business down entirely is just spiteful. With their financial difficulties, I don't see how Tivo could refuse an offer like that. If Dish attached a simple $2 a month "Tivo Royalty Fee" to all of their DVR customers, that works out to about $60million a year for Tivo in royalties. For a company that was in the red by $40million last year, that should be a very attractive offer. Tivo has never made a profit, ever, in their history. Instead of being vindictive, they should be looking at this as their chance to crawl out of their financial hole.

[cascadiance]

62. I agree with this...

I would hope that Tivo has some conditions in NewsCorp contract that doesn't let them totally get screwed by NDS.

I guess as an investor in TIVO, one has to ask the company if they are more about protecting IP and licensing their technology, or about selling product. That's a fundamental question to ask as they get more litigious and direct their litigation towards certain entities over others. If they want to be primarily an IP licensing house, then perhaps they should spin that part off from the TIVO product manufacturing business, and have that company deal with companies like NDS, DirectTV, Comcast, and Echostar. Then the DVR business will have to prove itself in terms of providing products that people want, and not just use lawyers to shut down others. Having a separate company handling licensing would make it a lot more conducive for companies like Echostar to do business with them, when they don't feel that they are doing a deal with the devil that already perhaps has half of the DVRs that DirecTV sells.

I would assume that the royalty fee gets rolled into my monthly service, though with the model 721 receiver, I OWN it and don't pay rental fees for it like other DVRS Dish Network provides its customers. I'd like to think that I don't pay any more in royalty fees that DirecTV customers do, and I hope that Echostar could negotiate that. Also, once that deal is signed, perhaps Dish Network could offer more enhancements to newer DVRs that people might want to upgrade to without worrying about infringing on patents.

[Occulus]

61. Do this, instead.

Get a TV card for your computer. Many brands ship with software to install that makes your computer act like a DVR- complete with channel listings for your area, and (in my case) a programmable channel grid that allows recording schedules.

These usually allow for recording in multiple formats, using different compression schemes, so you can set it up to record shows with as large a result file as you like (this equates to the resolution of the video; taking a capture at 320x240 resolution will take up signifigantly less space than taking a full-screen, DVD quality capture). Resulting files are stored in regular directories just like all other movie files, and there are several utilities out there capable of opening and editing these frame-by-frame. Ten or fifteen minutes worth of work (plus time to 'bake' the final cut) can find you with a file that has all commercials removed.

Additionally, many modern video cards (such as several made by ATI) have TV in/out capability, allowing you to hook your computer up to your TV directly so you can use the TV as a second monitor (and many of these cards support formatted output, for use with nonstandard screen sizes, like widescreen). By combining the record feature on the card with its TV out capability, you can effectively achieve the exact same effect with a PC- ABSENT the monthly subscription fees- as you can with Dish DVR or Tivo.

I was going to get a Tivo, in fact, until I figured out how to do the same thing with my PC. Now I have no need for Tivo at all- my PC does the exact same things.

[Rosco T.]

11. SWEET JEEBUS PEOPLE! All is not a conspiracy...

How about learning what it's all about before you start pointing fingers?

FACT: many, many years ago, DISH had a medium fair DVR platform (called a DISHPLAYER, I had one). DirectTv had the SAME platform (with a few changes) called UlitmateTV. The software for BOTH of them was done by Microsoft. Microsoft decided to stop supporting the Dishplayer/UltimateTV system and BOTH companies had to go another direction.

FACT: DirecTV went with TiVo. They paid them for it, TiVo did the software and it's still in use today (along with the PVR software that came from SKYTV in the UK).

FACT: DISH got a full 'evaluation' kit from TiVo.. Hardware, software, source code (the Tivo is a LINUX box), documentation.. the full monty... after absorbing it all, DISH said... 'never mind, we're going to make our own'.

FACT: what DISH eventually did was effectively CLONE the TiVo software... abiet it BADLY. Ask anyone about their early days with the DISHPVR's and you'll understand why. But they STILL COPIED MUCH OF THE CORE TIVO FUNCTIONALITY.

FACT: nastily little thing called a PATENT. about 10 of them in this case, where it was obvious that DISH effectively STOLE the ideas from TiVo.

FACT: after going thru the courts (this has been going on for years) TiVo won the case, won damages in the case. How would YOU like it if you had a patented idea and someone stole it?

FACT: anyone that knows anything about how business works, knows that this 'injunction to turn off the DVRs' is actually "DISH, you either LEGALLY LICENSE what you stole or TURN OFF THE DVRs"

oh.. and the mantra "DISH IS THE BLUE COMPANY" here's the numbers from BuyBlue.org

$156,171 to Democrats
$146,479 to Republicans
$0 to Others
$302,650 in Total Contributions

they're blue by $9692 or %3.2 or a dead heat.

TiVo is a non-political company, giving nothing to either side (per: BuyBlue.Org).

FOR SHITS SAKE, this is not a 'conspiracy to keep you from recording Free Speech TV or anything else!

Get a Grip people, worry about something IMPORTANT

[Subdivisions]

26. Yep, this is a non-issue

There's no conspiracy here. It's standard legal stuff. And, it all looks surprisingly legit.

[PunkPop]

46. Plus

DirectTV carries Link and Democracy Now also. Another slight flaw with the "giant conspiracy" theory.

[cascadiance]

56. Where's Free Speech TV?

[sendero]

58. Thanks for the rundown..

... let me add a couple things....

1) LinkTV is also on DirecTV, my wife watches it all the time.

2) TiVo is vastly superior to hokey PVR that comes with Dish, because it has the Season Pass feature which is the most important part.

It's too bad, these patent fights are often nasty. And IMHO, our patent office is nuts, handing out patents for stuff that is "obvious" and where there is plenty of "prior art" that shouldn't be patentable at all.

I hope Dish comes through this ok, I'd like to see the competition.

[electropop]

12. What's so great about TiVo anyway?

It looks to me like a glorified VCR. I can't imagine paying a subscription fee to use my VCR (or DVD recorder, now).

[Rosco T.]

13. You're paying for the Guide data and the extra functionality ...

- can you tell your VCR/DVD recorder to quietly, in the background, search the schedule for a certain actor/certain type of program you like and automagically record them? Tivo Will.

- you can tell your VCR/DVDR to record a show every monday night at 8:30... but what if the network moves it to 9:00 pm one night, or move it to tuesday for a while, will your VCR/DVDR automatically change it's programming to get it on the new time? Tivo will.

and more... until you try it, you'll never know what your missing.

[electropop]

15. I guess if I had time for much TV it'd be more important.

I just lived for a year with no TV at all, and now I just watch whatever's on the Science Channel or C-Span, if I don't happen to be doing anything more interesting.

[Rosco T.]

16. That's the POINT... YOU make the schedule of what YOU want to watch..

when YOU want to watch it. I'm the same way, but now I can watch what I want, when I want and not have to pay attention to the schedules or the networks or anything else. I tell it what I want to see and it records it. Bang. Done. and since it will let me zoom thru commericals (instant 30-second skip), I don't have to put up with any of the inane adverteasing...

[Jawja]

28. And you can

also schedule to record a program through a computer through a remote location with Tivo's online service. At one time, I had a router with my DSL and connected the TIVO to the router. This allowed me to go online from another location (at work) and program the TIVO to record.

[rinsd]

17. Pausing live TV. Never channel surfing again.

If you're not big into TV, it won't impress much.

But for someone who lives in the flight path near an airport, the pause live TV feature is very useful. Even to briefly pause while someone goes to the bathroom is nice. Or to rewind because a line was missed. With sports, you can do your own instant replays.

As far as the record feature, TiVo is much smarter than a VCR and has a much larger capacity. I don't channel surf much anymore. I have 4 or 5 shows already recorded that I will watch after work. And while I am watching them TiVo will record any prime time shows I am also interested in. You can also set your TiVo on a kind of auto feature where it attempts to match shows to your tastes. Personally I found that feature creepy so I turned it off.

I have found TiVo to be superior to other DVR service offering by cable companies in terms of ease of use.

But again, if you aren't into TV there won't be of much use to you.

[BlueEyedSon]

22. I have a DirecTivo. It's pretty great. Just type in your favorite actor

for example, and ba-da-boom: the "Sylvester Stallone Channel"!

No programming.

[karlrschneider]

14. Not the government, was a lawsuit filed by TIVO.

:eyes:

[Xenotime]

18. Just get a DVD-RW

[Rosco T.]

20. Not. Even. Close.

[BlueEyedSon]

24. Just get MythTV. Its free. http://www.mythtv.org/

http://www.mythtv.org/

[Initech]

23. Well, I just have to give a big "fuck you" to Tivo, then!

They can have my DVR when they pry it from my cold, dead hands. :argh:

[Rosco T.]

25. Ahh.. .so you support DISH stealing their technology ????

[cascadiance]

29. Well, I don't support them aligning monetarily with DirecTV...

... with a vertical monopoly that this government has allowed them earlier to get into when DirecTV has owned a controlling interest in Tivo. If they'd stayed indpendent of DirecTV (and Rupert Murdoch), then they'd have a better argument that Echostar should have licensed their technology instead of trying to reverse engineer their technology. And Echostar might have had more inclination to do business with them too.

Sirius almost dropped Fox channels on their satellite radio service too, because NewsCorp/Fox was driving a hard bargain with them licensing that content to them, given that they probably gave a more sweetheart deal to XM Radio, which the government had allowed Newscorp to buy significant interest in.

Rumor had it in one of the articles I saw that Rupert Murdoch was the one that more effectively lobbied congress to stop Echostar's attempt at buying out DirectTV earlier a couple of years ago when DirecTV was owned by Hughes Corporation, not so much because of anti-trust concerns (as what was publicly given as the reason) but because Murdoch himself wanted to buy out DirecTV instead of Dish Network, and therefore he was able to buy them later after the deal was stopped. Now more recently, he's tried to buy out Dish Network, though it sounds like he's backed off of that some (perhaps due to enough of us bitching about the anti-trust concerns about it).

Perhaps he feels with Dish and he losing to cable outfits on the wireless stuff and his ability to manipulate Tivo into suing Dish Network for their DVR technology, he can put Dish Network out of business. Why isn't TIVO also suing DirecTV for its newer attempts to build it's own DVR technology? Isn't that the same thing as what Dish Network is doint? Perhaps because DirecTV/Newscorp is a significant investor in Tivo and perhaps has patent access given to them as part of that investment?

It's our government's allowing these vertical media market mergers that is what's really at fault here in preventing competition, etc. and ultimately what will screw the customer.

Customers were screwed earlier when "common carrier" XM Satellite Radio was able to get an "exclusive arrangemnt" with Air America and screw those people who bought Sirius equipment to get Air America (and Sirius Left) content. If they are "common carriers" then they shouldn't be allowed to do the exclusive content bit. Either that or abide by what the initial rules for Satellite radio were set up with which dictated that equipment should be made that could switch between either service. Then they would stop being more of the common carrier service and more of a media service that could do exclusive content deals. Unfortunately the government hasn't gone after Sirius and DirectTV along with the manufacturers for abiding by those license stipulations the way they should have, and customers are paying the price. Only Alpine to date has been "compliant" and allows either service to connect to it's satellite radio equipment.

You have to look beyond just the "patents" that TIVO has on this technology. There's a larger picture at work here.

[Initech]

30. Exactly, I refuse to support any Murdoch-owned business

[Rosco T.]

45. GOOD. Murdoch DOES NOT OWN TIVO.

MURDOCH DOES NOT OWN TIVO.
DIRECTV DOES NOT OWN TIVO.

What part of that is hard for people to understand and why do they start lies like that. (Similar to the "Clear Channel owns XM" bullshit that is still spread)

[Rosco T.]

40. You REALLY like to look under rocks don't You... you need some facts..

FACT: TiVo was set to sue DIRECTV also when they started bringing in their NDS devloped software that could POTENTIALLY infringe on the TiVo Patents... DIRECTV CAVED IN AND LICENSED THE TECH FROM TIVO. Your "Murdoch manipulatating Tivo to Sue" ranks as one of the biggest loads of shite I've ever heard. Get this thru your head... DIRECTV DOES NOT OWN/CONTROL TIVO. PERIOD. If that was the case, why would TiVo be able to cut a deal with COMCAST to make COMCAST DVR'S USING TIVO SOFTWARE?

That's not 'aligning themselves with DirecTV'.. thats selling the software and tech.

DISH COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING BUT REFUSED..

and I won't EVEN go into the XM/SIRIUS thing again... Sirius BAILED on AAR. Period. For the 1st contract preiod AAR was FREE to both Sirius & XM so they could get into ears, when the contract came up, Sirius wouldn't pay up, XM did and offered even more.. the "exclusive" tag is one of convenience... when Sirius wouldn't pony up, XM became the only carrier...

[BlueEyedSon]

64. Get mythtv (see above)

[Xithras]

33. I smell a customer class action lawsuit against Echostar as well.

I was already a Dish customer when the DVR's came out, and was ineligible for a "free" unit. I shelled out several hundred bucks to buy my DishDVR several years ago. If they are turning it off, I demand a refund.

[cascadiance]

35. Echostar has been granted a stay at this point...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/tech/article/0,2777,DRMN_23910_4935687,00.html

For you that want to sue Echostar, you are following the script that Murdoch wants you to. He wants to KILL Dish Network if he can't buy it. Ultimately the goal is to have a satellite communications monopoly. He's manipulating the system in his favor.

I think a lawsuit against TIVO for not protecting its patents against ALL satellite providers would also be in order. DirecTV has a newer line of DVRs that AREN'T TIVO DVR's too. WHY isn't Tivo suing DirecTV too? Maybe, just maybe, because DirecTV owns a big chunk of them?

For a patent infringement to be granted, you also have to show that you are protecting your patents against ALL infringement, not being selective on who you enforce it. Otherwise, courts may rule that since you've allowed other companies to violate it, you shouldn't be allowed to sue certain companies for violating it. I might expect Echostar to challenge this ruling based on that.

Check out this note about newer DVRs that DirecTV is coming out with that TIVO is NOT suing DirecTV over. DirecTV/Murdoch knows that once they've had TIVO do it's dirty work in destroying Dish Network, then it will basically move most of its customers over to its newer DVR systems that TIVO hasn't tried to sue them over yet because DirecTV still has offered some TIVO based systems it sells. Once Dish Network's out of the way, you know they'll kill Tivo too and have complete control over the satellite/DVR monopoly.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/2006/04/directv-tivo-extend-deal-by-3-years.html

[Xithras]

38. I never said I wanted to sue them.

I just know that there are sharks who look for this sort of thing, who are going to have a field day.

I would demand a refund if they disabled the DVR that I have already bought and paid for, as would most of the subscribers who have paid for them. I wouldn't be interested in joining a lawsuit unless they refused.

[Rosco T.]

41. GHOD, you love to spew inaccurate information don't you???

"I think a lawsuit against TIVO for not protecting its patents against ALL satellite providers would also be in order. DirecTV has a newer line of DVRs that AREN'T TIVO DVR's too. WHY isn't Tivo suing DirecTV too? Maybe, just maybe, because DirecTV owns a big chunk of them?"

Because DIRECTV LICENSED THE TIVO SOFTWARE. Preiod. DIRECTV/MURDOCH DOES NOT OWN TIVO.

This is going to be worse than the "Clear Channel Owns XM" bullshit that still refuses to die.

[cascadiance]

50. But they ARE selling NON TIVO DVRs too!

They are now pushing their NDS line of DVRs. Why isn't Tivo suing them too for violating their patents with the newer DVRs, license or no? Is it the ability to license their technology that Tivo truly wants from either DirecTV or Echostar, or just a chunk of their business. I do believe that Murdoch is playing them to help him get Dish Network out of the way as a competitor.

http://www.pvrwire.com/2005/08/11/directv-to-stop-marketing-tivo/

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2004/08/directv_makes_m.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=100&objectid=10396199

http://www.tvpredictions.com/2006/07/directvs-hd-dvr-to-launch-next-month.html

http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/30/directv-prepping-new-digital-video-recorder-which-spells/

[Rosco T.]

52. SO WHAT?

"They are now pushing their NDS line of DVRs. Why isn't Tivo suing them too for violating their patents with the newer DVRs, license or no? Is it the ability to license their technology that Tivo truly wants from either DirecTV or Echostar, or just a chunk of their business. I do believe that Murdoch is playing them to help him get Dish Network out of the way as a competitor."

CAN'T YOU FREAKING READ!!!!!!!

DIRECTV LICENSED THE TIVO TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!

WHEN YOU LICENSE THE TECH, YOU CAN'T BE VIOLATING PATENTS WHEN YOU ARE LICENSING THE TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I do believe that Murdoch is playing them to help him get Dish Network out of the way as a competitor."

I do believe you don't know what the hell you are talking about. If anything TIVO is wanting to get DISH to license the tech or just use the TiVo software.

GOOD GHOD, GET A GRIP!

[Rosco T.]

54. BTW.. Here's one you missed...

http://www.avrev.com/news/0406/12.tivo.shtml

TiVo and DirecTV Renew Partnership
April 12, 2006

Digital video recording maker TiVo announced it has extended it's partnership with satellite TV provider DirecTV Group Inc. for another three years.

Under the agreement, DirecTV will continue to provide TiVo service to its existing subscribers. Both companies also extended their advertising relationship and agreed not to assert patent rights against each other.

With DirecTV having recently begun switching to a competing technology from its sister company, News Corp.'s NDS, industry analysts had questioned whether TiVo would be entirely cut off from DirecTV when the old contract expires in February 2007. TiVo could have lost its existing DirecTV subscribers, each of whom brings TiVo roughly $1 a month.

(snip)

TiVo has been touting features such as parental controls to differentiate itself from rivals and is pursuing more licensing deals with cable companies and electronics makers to use its technology. TiVo already has signed a deal with the nation's largest cable operator, Comcast Corp.

(more)

[BlueEyedSon]

65. How much does Murdoch own... 4%? nt

[cascadiance]

36. Clarence Thomas joins this media cabal effort to shut down Dish Network...

He just refused to reverse the ruling against Echostar on providing locals signals to areas they don't have license for. Of course one of those networks is Fox, owned by Murdoch, who also owns Newscorp that owns DirecTV, Echostar's competitor. Note that DirecTV is ALSO cited as violating these local reception rules, but do they go after DirecTV? NO!!! Folks, this is the start of the media takeover! Just say no! Call folks like Bernie Sanders and try to put a stop to this!

From:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=akPOrPxYbWmM&refer=news

EchoStar Rejected by High Court Justice, Must Halt Some Service

By Greg Stohr

Aug. 22 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas refused to block a ruling requiring EchoStar Communications Corp. to halt delivery of distant network television signals to hundreds of thousands of subscribers.

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the halt in May, saying EchoStar had engaged in a pattern of offering those signals to customers who aren't eligible under federal law. Today's rejection is a victory for News Corp.'s Fox Network and stations affiliated with the four major networks.

EchoStar, the nation's second-largest satellite service, said in court papers filed in Washington that it faces ``irreparable harm'' to its business. It asked Thomas, who handles emergency requests from the 11th Circuit, to block the lower court decision from taking effect while the justices consider whether to hear the company's appeal.

``Large numbers of subscribers who will be deprived of access to network broadcasting programming are likely to cancel their remaining EchoStar satellite services,'' EchoStar argued. Those customers ``are unlikely to resubscribe even in the event the 11th Circuit's decision is reversed by the Supreme Court.''

...

he U.S. Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act lets satellite companies provide network signals from far-away markets to subscribers who can't get high-quality local reception through an antenna. Both EchoStar and its larger rival, DirecTV Group Inc., have faced broadcaster claims that they regularly provide that service to ineligible customers in violation of station copyrights.

...

[Rosco T.]

43. Oh. Brother.

you're really into stirring in totally unrelated shit aren't you??

the DNS suits have been going on for ... oh... 6 or 7 YEARS. I bet you're going to yell next about why DirecTV didn't get hit with this...

IT'S BECAUSE THEY DECIDED TO FOLLOW THE LAW SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

Mind you, I think the stupid, dumb-ass rules about 'distant network' eligibility is bullshit... if the station is up there, you should be able to subscribe.. but, unfortunately, the law as it stands says you can't...

[cascadiance]

51. Umm.. DirecTV was the first "violator" of this...

and THEY were the ones that got shut down, since Dish Network was the first to comply with having locals being put on their satellite. I know, because that was a big reason why I dumped DirecTV then for Dish.

The report here DOESN'T say that DirecTV has stopped violations here does it? It says that BOTH have been violating this agreement. Why would they mention DirecTV now if they'd stopped?

[Rosco T.]

53. Try getting out of market, distant locals from DirecTV now a days..

THEY STRICTLY FOLLOW THE RULES NOW.

and here's a grammer lesson...

"have been violating" - past tense.

"are violating" - present tense.

DirecTV did and stopped.

DISH STILL WAS.

[cyberpj]

63. Bottom LIne - They stole the technology and they can't keep using it.

I'm ok with that. They knew the risk when they did it.

:shrug:

[Maat]

66. There's been a stay, pending appeal.

That's what it looks like.

So, the orders will not be carried out until the appellate decision is rendered.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/15312876.htm