OMG!!! Just Watched Democracy Now! A MUST SEE... Too Scary & We

[ChiciB1]

MUST stop this INSANITY!! If you can catch the program later today, WATCH IT, if not... go to www.democracynow.org and check out these two articles!!

I just said to my daughter last night that I have FINALLY figured out to some extent how Hitler became what he was! That was BEFORE I watched the show today!! HOW we stop this I don't know, but stop it WE MUST!! I am of no real religious affiliation and have NO agenda here, but Christians United For Israel is just ONE MORE JUMP for the Wing-Nuts and I have to admit scares me to death!

In the talk with John Dean, Amy asks if Fascism is here and he said not yet, but it's close. And he said it will be coming with a SMILE. He began research on this book a long time ago with Goldwater and decided to return to it because he feels it's essential that THIS MESSAGE gets out to Americans!

I'm in a PANIC, I really am! We've got to do something and it has to be NOW!!!

below are just the lead-ins!

Christians United for Israel: New Christian Zionism Lobby Hopes to Rival AIPAC

We take a look at a new recently established group called Christians United for Israel - an evangelical organization that believes supporting expansionist policies of the Israeli government is: "a biblical imperative." We speak with investigative journalist Max Blumenthal who reports they lobbied the Bush administration to adopt a confrontational posture toward Iran, refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand in its attack on Lebanon.



Fmr. White House Counsel John Dean on Conservatives Without Conscience

We speak with former Nixon White House counsel John Dean about his new book, "Conservatives Without Conscience." In it, he warns that many of today's Republican and conservative leaders are: "conservatives without conscience who are capable of plunging this nation into disasters the likes of which we have never known."

[Jara sang]

1. Interesting, I'll check it out.

[deaniac21]

2. This is truly a CRISIS of the HIGHEST ORDER!

Something MUST be done!!

[me b zola]

12. What do you suggest

You know, I don't believe that I have ever seen you post more than one liners that have no meaning. I'd really like to hear what you think.

[deaniac21]

21. Perhaps you need to think outside the box with me!

[EVDebs]

3. A misapplication of scripture to avoid Inconvenient Truths...once again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=215343

Two books exploring this are Grace Halsell's Forcing God's Hand along with Steve Wohlberg's End Time Delusions. A Lutheran pastor (female, I can't remember her name) also has written on this subject.

[ChiciB1]

5. That Was January... It's Now August... So Now What???? n/t

[EVDebs]

10. You don't get a Third Temple (where antichrist will sit per prophesy

as understood by Bush's base) without removing The Dome of The Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. You don't talk about 'Nile to Euphrates' without mentioning US presence in the ME. "So now what ?" you say ? Use yer noggin' and discuss this all the while the M$M won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

OBL uses these talking points apparently in stirring up the Muslim world. It's highly inflammatory. That's 'so what'.

[ChiciB1]

4. I'm Not Kidding.... This Information Is Making My Head Swirl!

Actually, my stomach wants to heave and my hands are shaking a little. We've known for a very long time about "movements" here and there, but this is the BIGGEST step I've seen yet!

I'm not Jewish and would like to know if any of you who are Jewish understand this or even support it?

[formactv]

9. Ignorance in action

American christians are uneducated zealots. Their schools are a joke. Their heads are full of crap. They believe, but know nothing.

[Patchuli]

29. There are progressive, liberal

leftwing American Christians. Perhaps you shouldn't lump all American Christians together since we are not all "uneducated zealots." DU posters should recognize and be more tolerant of diversity especially since that is a trait devoid in the rightwing. Some Christians actually believe in striving to be like Christ...

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. That's the problem

most Jews don't understand what their new found 'supporters' are all about.

The Rapture Ready Bushbots want the destruction of Jerusalem, specifically the Temple Mount. Supposedly their version of Jesus can not return until the current temple is destroyed. The second requirement for the return of Jesus is the one they don't advertise and that is the destruction of all the Jews. Once Jesus comes back they will either convert or die.

Someone needs to tell the Jewish people because the vast majority don't know much about the Rapture. I asked one Jewish young lady that I know. She thought it was a joke and nothing to be concerned about. She had no clue what the 'teachings' actually were about. It was fun educating her.

[Raksha]

23. I'm Jewish and I DO NOT support this insanity!

You can read my opinion further down the thread. So-called "Christian Zionists" scare the crap out of me, and now that they have the ear of the White House they scare me even more.

[ChiciB1]

6. Oh Well... Guess It's Not Too Important....

I'm outta here for now. Was going to stick around to see if there was any feed-back, especially from the Jewish community, but I have to go get some groceries. Another favorite of mine????

[tnlefty]

7. I would like to know what the title is of the research that he stated he

referenced in his research into the authoritarian mind that he did for this book. It was research that had begun post WW2 and it was conducted in an effort to determine if someone like a Hitler could be elected here. Sadly the research strongly suggested that yes, it can happen here, and yes he mentioned that we are on the cusp (personally I think we're a little further along than the cusp).

I watched the Blumenthal and Dean segments on DemocracyNow twice (back to back on 2 different satellite channels) and it unnerved me so much that I'm certain none of what I typed is coherent.

[EVDebs]

11. Leo Strauss, if I'm not mistaken, at Univ of Chicago 'noble lies...'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss

""Strauss noted that thinkers of the first rank, going back to Plato, had raised the problem of whether good and effective politicians could be completely truthful and still achieve the necessary ends of their society. By implication, Strauss asks his readers to consider whether "noble lies" have any role at all to play in uniting and guiding the polis. Are "myths" needed to give people meaning and purpose and to ensure a stable society? Or can men and women dedicated to relentlessly examining, in Nietzsche's language, those "deadly truths", flourish freely? Thus, is there a limit to the political, and what can be known absolutely? In The City and Man, Strauss discusses the myths outlined in Plato's Republic that are required for all governments. These include a belief that the state's land belongs to it even though it was likely acquired illegitimately, and that citizenship is rooted in something more than the accidents of birth....

In 2004 the BBC produced a three-part documentary on the threat from organised terrorism called the Power of Nightmares. This television documentary claimed that Strauss' teachings, among others, influenced neo-conservative and thus, United States foreign policy, especially following the September 11, 2001 attacks. Two students of Strauss, Wolfowitz and William Kristol, are cited, and Kristol discusses Strauss's influence in the film. Since they were students of Strauss, the documentary claims that their later political views and actions are a result of Strauss' philosophy and teaching. The central theme of the documentary is that the neoconservatives created myths to make the Soviet Union and terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda (Arabic: القاعدة‎) appear to be better organized and coordinated, as well as more threatening than they actually were, and that such "nightmares" enabled the neoconservatives to gain disproportionate power in the Reagan and George W. Bush administrations.""

A New Pearl Harbor, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, etc. etc.

Karl Rove must have read this stuff...

BTW, from Amy Goodman's interview, Dean says this:

""The genesis of this book was, curiously, a longtime friend of mine, Senator Barry Goldwater, and we were talking after the 1994 election, where he was actually both mystified and miffed at what had happened to conservatives. He said, “John, I don't understand this incivility. I don't understand why the religious right is dominating the Republican Party.” He said, “I’d like to find some answers.” And we thought we'd do this book together. And that's where it started.

The initial research was very Freudian-based. Other researchers quickly, who debated that and didn't think that was the most solid, began asking empirical questions, asking surveys of people, and developing scales to determine, you know, which personalities were more likely to become followers and those that are leaders.""

Milgram's 16 kind of did it for me...

[tnlefty]

13. Dean mentioned this gent, Professor Bob Altemeyer

I just looked around a little bit thus far and found that he is the author of "Enemies of Freedom: Understanding Right Wing Authoritarianism". Apparently he did some research into what makes some people submit very readily to an authoritarian figure, while others are less likely or not likely to at all.

I found a review of his book and I'm going back to read some more of what is in it.

[EVDebs]

27. Obedience to Authority Study

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

This famous investigation resulted in a song by Peter Gabriel

"""We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)" is a Peter Gabriel song found on his 1986 album So. The title refers to the 37 out of 40 participants who showed complete obedience in Experiment 18.""

DU'ers might be able to make use of this in the upcoming elections re Republican's voting party line !

[Joanne98]

8. It's that fat bastard John Haggee again.

[Emit]

14. ChiciB1

Here are a couple of recent DU threads concerning the Christians United for Israel group. They have a lot of info for all DUers. This mixing of religion and politics in our Republic is a big concern for me.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1865379

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1734756

[ChiciB1]

19. Thanks A Lot.... This Concerns Me Waaaaay Tooo Much!

We need to DO SOMETHING, but I don't know what!! Just got back from getting groceries????

Read John Dean's book might be a first step! Read Blumenthal's article in The Nation too!

SPREAD the word... but I'm more concerned about how the Jewish community is reacting to this.

[Emit]

30. This Hagee guy is nuts

Besides his million-dollar compensation package, Hagee has a portfolio of other ventures, including a cattle ranch in south Texas that may have religious significance. Many evangelicals believe that the arrival of a “perfect red heifer” will signal the end times. In the Old Testament, burning a red heifer and sprinkling its ashes is described as a purification ritual for priests entering the temple. Ultra-orthodox Jews believe that the birth of a modern perfect red heifer will herald the arrival of the messiah, leading to a confrontation with Muslims over the Temple Mount, where Jews believe the Temple will be rebuilt. Some evangelicals likewise regard the red heifer as a harbinger of the ultimate showdown at the Temple Mount, which they believe will be the site of the Second Coming. And they believe that time is near.

To many other observers, the advent of the red heifer threatens to provoke a violent struggle for control of the Temple Mount, with worldwide repercussions. In the late 1990s, a group of unidentified Texas ranchers reportedly bred a perfect red heifer, which generated excitement in evangelical circles until the animal sprouted some black hairs.

Six years ago, the John C. Hagee Royalty Trust paid more than $5.5 million for a 7,600-acre ranch in Brackettville, Texas, where cattle are raised in a venture with the Texas Israel Agricultural Research Foundation, a nonprofit outfit operated by the pastor. (Another part of the property is a resort hunting facility, where guests paying up to $250 for a night’s stay can also land their planes at the ranch’s private airstrip.) Last year, Hagee hired one of the top lobbyists in San Antonio, David Earl, to urge the state Legislature to exempt Hagee’s foundation from water-use regulations. A spokeswoman for the bill’s sponsor, Representative Frank Corte, whose district includes Hagee’s church, said that he introduced it on behalf of a constituent, but added that she was not authorized to divulge the identity of that constituent. (The bill stalled in committee.) Earl said that Hagee wants to “share information” to “improve” the “production of livestock,” particularly cattle, with an Israeli research project, but otherwise claimed to be unsure of the particulars. Dr. Scott Farhart, an obstetrician and trustee of the John C. Hagee Royalty Trust (and an elder at Hagee’s church), did not respond to a request for comment, nor did the director of the ranch.

http://www.prospect.org/web/view-print.ww?id=11541

[mike_c]

15. it was an awesome show...

...marred at the beginning by the poor technical quality of the interview with the Haitian author, but the segments on CUFI and creeping fascism were excellent.

[oc2002]

17. whats the big deal? these guys are nuts, yes...so what.

the group is hardly mainstream, and they are the minority not the majority.

[Emit]

18. It matters not that they are the minority

They have found themselves in high ranking positions within the party now in power (see The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party http://www.theocracywatch.org/ to understand the extent of their reach), and these religious groups (via think tanks, religious organizations, etc.) have aligned themselves with people who make important decisions in our government, mostly the current Republicans, and in some cases Democrats. Lastly, through websites such as Media Transparency ( http://www.mediatransparency.org/ ) you can see how many millions of dollars are funding various groups that are mixing politics and religiosity, and have been for years -- their own brand of religiosity, mind you. One last thought, ever checked into the Bush administration's faith based initiative programs? Check out: Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, Michelle Goldberg: http://www.c-spanstore.org/shop/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=190409-1

This is far bigger than you imagine.

[ChiciB1]

20. Seems To Me That This Little MINORITY... Has Done Some

MAJORITY damage. Watching the show you might have found how many BIG Guys in Congress actually are behind this thing. Can you say Karl Rove, Bill Frist, Tom DeLay....??? Even though they were highlighted by John Dean, I would bet they have their fingers all over this!!!

[rman]

31. Nazis also were nuts and did not have majority support

(Hitler was not elected, unlike what Rumsfeld would have us believe)

So what's your point?

[Raksha]

22. I've been worried about the so-called "Christian Zionists"

for a number of years now. I've always been revolted by their end-times scenario where the Jews HAVE to rebuild the Temple...so that the Antichrist can defile it! They have been doing everything they can to try and facilitate that, even attempting to breed the perfect red heifer!

But this new group, Christians United for Israel, is even more scary than its predecessors because they clearly want to bring about WWIII in the Middle East. The fact that they were formed only five months ago and are having secret meetings with the White House is scarier yet...

[lonestarnot]

24. These people are just damned nuts!

[Tsiyu]

25. These "Christians" would be the first ones to crucify Christ

They wouldn't have left it up to the Romans or Jews.

"The sooner we off this guy, the sooner we get salvation!" They'd have formed a group and hunted him down and killed him when he was just a baby so their salvation could come as fast as possible.

Sad, sad, deluded, self-absorbed maniacs, all of them.

[tnlefty]

26. Kick for the interviews and for anyone who wants to learn more about the

research of Prof. Bob Altemeyer and the authoritian personality. :kick:

[RagAss]

28. Just how stupid do you think Israel is???

Do you think they would offer up their destruction to satisfy some nutjob southern preachers???...Let's give them some credit. They've survived the onslaughts of regimes who have been trying to destroy them since 1948...Call me crazy but I don't see them being duped here.....