many liberals are worried about how impeachment would 'make us look'

[mopaul]

to whom? to them, or to ourselves? impeaching bush would make us look foolish, or impeachment would make us look vindictive, or vengeful, or petty, or even worse, make us look like we're wasting time, instead of focusing on more important issues.

why should we give one flying fuck about how it would make us look? it's our constitutional duty to remove assholes from our government, any grade school kid should know that. i suggest that it would make us look like PATRIOTIC AMERICANS. but this seems to be a futile attidude these days.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. what idiots are worried about appearances when our country is at risk?

I doubt that a moderate or a liberal, one who reads the news and sees America's reality under Bush, would care more for how it would make us look - compared to how do we fix our country?

[bryant69]

2. Who is worried about this?

Liebermann? Or people on DU?

I will say I am concerned about pushing for this and not pulling it off. It could backfire; which is why I haven't been enthusiastic about generalized impeachment claims. And some of the reasons given for impeachment here at DU have been frankly ludicrus. They would make us look bad to forward those kinds of claims.

The current crisis, however, may have pushed the momentum far enough that we can impeach him.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MrBenchley]

3. Name one

Iyet to see any objection along those grounds...what I see is mostly practical considerations....Democrats can't do it while the GOP have control of Copngress.

[mopaul]

5. i won't name names, but they are on this page, right now

and i read here a lot, and many, many have said that impeachment would make us look silly, i'm not making it up.

[MrBenchley]

14. Faith based rhetoric....

Without context your claim is meaningless...

There's a lot of mindless horseshit on the board. Including those that seem to be clueless as to how politics or Congress works.

[Lex]

4. "many liberals" ?

:shrug:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. That's such a stupid argument - from the DLC stooges, no doubt.

The Republicans didn't worry that impeaching Clinton over a bj would make them look stupid. (Yes, they did look stupid, but they didn't notice, and it didn't hurt them politically, although it should have.)

If Bush can't be impeached for doing what he's been doing, then the Constitutional provision for impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors is completely meaningless.

To those who would argue against impeachment: Grow a spine, you asshats. Defend the freakin' Constitution.

[ClassWarrior]

12. I've heard a pretty steadfast Progressive argue that it'll make us look...

...partisan. Which is why we have a lot of work to do, dismantling the Radical RW framing that's been in place since the attempted RW coup on Clinton.

NGU.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Dammit, what's the problem with being "partisan"?

"Partisan: 1. A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea."

OK, fine. I'm a fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of the idea that the president isn't above the law and has no business violating FISA and the Fourth Amendment. Partisan, and proud of it.

[ClassWarrior]

17. I agree. I said people are dying, but heaven forbid we "look partisan."

That seemed to get through. Again - that's why we need to be out there talking to people about this!! We got a lot of de-programming to do.

NGU.

[mattomjoe]

18. Nothing wrong with being partisan per se. But the case against Bush

for impeachment needs to be airtight if the Dems are going to be the ONLY ones pushing it. If they don't do their homework on this, I fear the backlash against them will make Rather-gate look pale in comparison.

[rman]

7. If 85% of people think W should be impeached (MSNBC poll),

even if that's just an indicator, it can't be that "many" liberals (and most repubs?) don't want impeachment.

[mopaul]

11. that's a lot of foolish looking people

i love that msnbc poll though, it's gotta be rough to see around the white house.

[onenote]

19. non scientific polls aren't an indicator of jack

Believe me, if that poll was remotely accurate, repubs would be running for the hills. But they're not.

onenote

[rman]

27. Then how accurate is the claim that "many liberals are worried

about how impeachment would 'make us look'"?

[onenote]

29. I don't know how many it is

But its a matter worthy of debate.

[onenote]

8. i guess I'm one of those "idiots"

I consider myself a liberal (or at least a moderate by the standards set by some here at DU). I've never voted for a repub in the 34 years I've been voting. I donate several grand a year to Democratic candidates.

And I don't have a problem with the rank and file here at DU talking about impeachment. What I would have a problem with is Democratic elected officials and politicians pulling the trigger on an impeachment effort prematurely. Without the votes in Congress, there is nothing the Democrats can do. Unless there is a popular upsurge of support for the idea. So its a case where our elected officials have to follow, not lead. If they push for impeachment before the public demands it, we aren't going to look strong, we're going to look out of touch. Whether its right or not, the public currently cares more about gas prices, wage stagnation, and how do we make ourselves secure in a world that, thanks to chimpy's policies, is more dangerous than it was on September 11. Impeachment may be a battle that needs to be fought, but at the right time, when we have a chance of winning it, not before.

onenote

[Divernan]

13. The public never called for Clinton's impeachment - just Scaiffe

But I agree one does need to have the votes lined up in advance.

[onenote]

20. and the repubs lost seats in the 1998 elections

[ClassWarrior]

24. Because the public saw their attempted coup for what it was.

NGU.

[boobooday]

9. It would make us look patriotic

Like we care about our constitution, and the founding principles of our democracy.

It would make them (the Dem politicians) look they have a spine, and are not total sell-outs.

It would make them look more like politicians I would want to vote for.

[Divernan]

10. It would make the US look a lot better to the rest of the world.

Right now, Bush is the most hated man in the world - talk to people in Europe, India, Asia, Latin America.
Read the press coverage of him abroad.

[youngred]

16. I just think it sets bad precedent and gives them an easy angle

If any president deserves it, it has been this one. Criminal incompetence, shredding civil rights and ruining America's image in the world are the least of their crimes. However, it is too easily played off as a "revenge hit" for Clinton.

Plus is President Cheney all that better than Bush? Unless you get rid of him first there is no way we should try getting Bush out

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. Cheney is already the de facto president.

That's not important. What's important is that somebody stands up and calls the Bush administration on its crimes, which nobody in their right mind could credibly compare to Clinton's blowjobs. I think even the saner Republicans would recognize that this wouldn't be just payback for the Clinton impeachment.

[youngred]

23. Call them on their crimes absolutely

Cheney is at least somewhat checked, I buy him as the power behind the throne, but think there is still enough independence there to make Cheney as President much worse than Bush.

The payback spin is the most dangerous part, the visceral hatred of Clinton is so strong that some/many might still buy it.

[Batgirl]

31. I would actually look forward to a Cheney presidency

Because the dickster is so overwhelmingly disliked, because he isn't able or willing to disguise the evil that oozes from him, because all but the most dimwitted of Bushbots instinctively shudder and turn away from his horrible visage...ahh it would be so beautiful to watch the complete collapse of GOP political fortunes that would inevitably result from a Cheney presidency.

[youngred]

35. I agree that is possible

but it's still exceedingly scary the amount of damage he could do.

[Batgirl]

37. I'm assuming that he'd be able to do less damage

once he's occupying center stage and not operating in secret like some nocturnal wild pig.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Stranger]

25. They must be Right Wing moles.

Such a position is otherwise inexplicable.

[slor]

26. Who are these "morans"?

Worried about what some fucking right-wing idiots might think? Here is an idea of what they think about us already...they would like to see us dead. So fuck them and anybody that stands with them. They are a blight on our country!

[Tsiyu]

28. Personally, I hope my desire to see ** impeached

will show me to be:

A person who believes in the Constitutional decree of Checks and Balances

A person who abhors war for oil and torture of any kind

A person who is scared for her nation as it sinks into a deficit lrger than any known to our history

A person who cries on a regular basis when I think of our soldiers, our citizens along the Gulf who were abandoned, the innocent people we killed and maimed and tortured, the elderly who will die this winter for lack of meds and heat.....

And finally, I hope I am seen as a person who believes in the rule of law, not just for sexually active presidents, but for ALL presidents.

[gratuitous]

30. I discount any argument that silly

Either the constitution and the laws of our land mean what they say or they don't. I believe and act as if our laws mean something; Mr. Bush does not. Impeaching him and removing him from office would not be vindictive, vengeful, petty or a waste of time, unless a person asserting that doesn't think the law is meaningful. Such a person would be exceedingly silly, and I would decline to waste time on him or her if they persisted in their silliness.

[tularetom]

32. "Many liberals" spend too much time

worrying about how everything would make us look. Who gives a fuck. It's improtant that * goes down in the history books as the third president to be impeached, and hopefully the first to be removed. And who says if he is impeached and not removed, he can't be impeached again. Let's give it a try now and then if it isn't successful, we can get it right after the Dems regain control of congress in 2006.

[Toots]

33. It might make us look like we give a shit

:shrug: We like a country ruled by law and not a dictator.

[NNadir]

34. I'm not.

[garybeck]

36. how does NOT IMPEACHING make them look?

worse in my opinion.

[WI_DEM]

38. What liberals are you talking about?

if it's the DLC crowd, I wouldn't call them liberals.