How can we improve our Lebanon threads?

[EFerrari]

Poll question: How can we improve our Lebanon threads?

I'm really ready for these threads to get better or to go away. The latter wish is a wish to get rid of the virulent ugliness that is so not DU at its best. On the other hand, being DU, we seem to need to talk about these very important developing events

What do you think? If the choices below don't cover your preference, please post 'em and please let's stay on task.

EOM

[uppityperson]

1. these 2

I would like posters to these threads to stop with the cheap insults

I'd like less pressure to grab a side and more room to form my own opinion

[EFerrari]

2. If I'm ever in a fire fight, I want YOU to be right next to me. lol

Thanks, UP!

:hi:

[The Magistrate]

3. Thank You, Ma'am, For Your Effort At Improvement

My own suggestion would be for the avoidance of exaggeration, the abandoment of argument by hyperbole, and the insistance on presenting whatever may be happening as the worst and most colossal wrong in the present day or history itself. These things are aggrevated when they come in the form of one-line jolts repeated so frequently one begins to suspect they are kept ready to hand for cut and past into the posting form by the most indeafatiguable. A thing can be wrong without being the worst thing imagineable. A person can have a different, even a harshly antogonistic view, without being the embodiment of idiocy and evil. This is a question which persons of good heart and sound intellect may easily find themselves taking radically opposed stands over. It does not cut along clear left v. right or reactionary v. progressive lines.

[EFerrari]

5. I added a choice for careful language which will screw up

the accuracy of the poll.

The Election Forum may sue me but they will understand. :silly:

[The Magistrate]

6. Not A Place To Get On The Wrong Side Of, That, Ma'am

Always a pleasure to see you about the boards, my friend.

[EFerrari]

14. I'm hoping Mr. Landshark is too busy to serve me today.

And, oh, you say that today.

Let's see how we do.

:)

[The Magistrate]

16. Remember, Ma'am

Pleasure comes to me in a variety of forms....

[EFerrari]

18. LOL!

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

29. these are good suggestions Mr MagistrateYour WonderfulHolinessSir

good suggestions, the hyperbole, the repetitiveness of stock phrases, the hysterics. Yes it is bad, yes we disagree (now hit shift control q to insert cliche)

[EFerrari]

34. Holiness?

:wtf:

:)

[hfojvt]

43. have we not done this, however, on so many other issues?

before this Lebanon conflagration started we had the immigration wars and before that it was Rove's indictment and before that it was Tookie and before that I forget. Didn't Schiavo turn into a huge flame war? And I think I left some out. All of those seemed to take over GD, sometimes for months. I thought immigration was never gonna end. And they all involved accusations and epithets. I recently wondered if it is the same groups of people squaring off in each of these armageddons or if the players change. There is a large group on each side which seems to disagree with this: "A person can have a different, even a harshly antogonistic view, without being the embodiment of idiocy and evil."
But I am also not sure why there needs to be harsh antagonism.

[barb162]

47. Amen

Excellent!

[Swamp Rat]

4. Back to I/P

Too many posters REFUSE to be civil in GD, as charges of anti-Semitism in order to 'win' a debate has gotten to absurd levels.

I hope DU admin gets control of this quickly before longtime DUers start to leave.

[EFerrari]

9. Let's see how we do, Swampy.

The ugly stuff seems to spread faster than thoughtfulness.

How does that HAPPEN? :)

[Swamp Rat]

12. Hopefully DU admin will move these threads back to I/P where the rules are

more strict. This will force the discussions to return to a modicum civility... hopefully.

Thanks a lot for this thread/poll sfexpat2000. :hug:

[EFerrari]

13. Thank you for weighing in.

Yuck to all hate speech everywhere!

:hug:

/ a new contraction

[sandnsea]

15. Only one post

Ya know, I've seen some of those anti-semitism posts so I know what you're talking about. I was accused of posting one myself, although it isn't remotely what I said or meant.

But what just absolutely SLAYS AND GAULS me about your post is that you don't recognize the horrific abuse others have taken. I've been told I love to see babies die. I've been told I'm a warmonger and a freeper. I can't even remember what all, and that doesn't even count the posts I've seen made to other people.

Some people apparently really don't recognize the vitriol and animosity in their own posts or the posts "criticizing" Israel.

So even while you come here asking for civility in GD, you only recognize one side of the incivility which, to me, contributes to the incivility you say you want to end.

I'm not going to hijack this thread, that's all I've got to say on the subject.

[Swamp Rat]

20. HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"YOU ONLY RECOGNIZE THIS! ... YOU ONLY RECOGNIZE THAT! ... YOUR POST SLAYS AND GAULS ME ... YOU YOU YOU!!!" .... THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!

[TahitiNut]

37. Yep. When the subject of so many sentences is "you,"

... the post becomes about the messenger rather than about the message. It's not that difficult. :shrug:

I actually saw {a DUer} challenge the assertion that calling someone an antisemite was an ad hominem. :rofl: :rofl:
<shaking head> (I often doubt that some can even spell 'logic.')

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. longtime DUers have already left.

:(

[LeftyMom]

7. Can we just send all the partisans back down to IP?

Unfortunately this issue is tied up in religion and racism and even on DU for many people the result is that they yell their fool heads off without thinking, because listening to the other side borders on heresy and giving an inch is sacrilege. The extremes on both sides are nucking futs and most anybody in the middle is too intimidated by the partisan shrieking to discuss the issue with calm or depth.

[EFerrari]

10. Too late to add " nucking futs" without consulting Diebold.

:hi:

[countingbluecars]

8. I vote for back to I/P

The posts in GD are awful IMO. I also believe that some posters here in GD are having fun dividing this board. The rules in I/P are stricter, and I believe the discussions would be more productive.

[EFerrari]

17. Hi there, countingbluecars. I hardly ever get to read you.

I'm sure this can be handled well. Was just trying to see what other DUers thought.

[countingbluecars]

21. Hi sfexpat2000.

I'm around quite a bit but usually just reading and learning. Every once in a while I put in my two cents.

[EFerrari]

23. Thanks for those two cents.

:)

[EFerrari]

11. All right! A vote for "go cheney yourself"

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

39. Now, 3!

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

19. a litltle kick here

[EFerrari]

22. kick, who will feel it at this point

[xchrom]

24. i think if people would mostly keep their thoughts to themselves

it would help.

seriously -- when information comes along -- read it and move -- go to the lounge instead.

at this point all the ''steam'' we blow here will do little or no good to anyone.

except slay an imaginary dragon.

i have my own thoughts about this conflict -- but i have posted very little{for me} and tried as much sound neutral -- or more neutral about the subject.

i like to mix it up here as much as the next guy -- but there's no winning this one. and so unsatisfying.

[meti57b]

25. RE: antisemitism, .... DU has already shown its hand.

There isn't much that can be done now to change that.

I will not be able to think of DU in the way I always have before.

[MercutioATC]

27. If you're still thinking in those terms, you don't get it.

I haven't seen "antisemitism" here. I have seen heated discussion that places the blame for civilian Lebanese deaths on the shoulders of Israel.

...and that's fair, technically speaking.


It's not about Jews, it's about the injudicious use of military force and the effect that has on innocents.

[uppityperson]

30. well put, your last line there. Thank you.nt

[oberliner]

31. You haven't seen antisemitism here??????? nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. anti-Israel people never do. I wonder why that is?

:eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Really? I've seen both.

I've seen people who support Israel's right to exist and defend itself, who are clearly not anti-semitic, and yet who are upset with Israel's tactics and what's been going on, particularly regarding Lebanese civilians.

Hell, I've been one of them.

I've also seen plenty of people arguing that Israel really has no right to exist, that the Jews there should move to Wyoming or Kentucky, or just "go away". I don't know if that's anti-Semitism per se, but it's interesting that I've never seen anyone here argue that the Lebanese or Palestinians should just "go away".

And, yeah, I've seen some glaring examples of Anti-Semitism, too. The most egregious ones have been swept up by the mods' pooper scoopers pretty quickly (:thumbsup:) but they've certainly been here, and not just the occasional rare example, either.

[meti57b]

45. Here's a nice little example for you, but look fast before it's deleted.

Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-30-06 06:30 AM
Response to Original message

2. oh, don't worry, they always sleep well
after a midnight slurping at the trough of innocent blood. Its what they live for.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1768706#1768725

[MercutioATC]

46. That's not antisemitism...it could be applied to any group.

...and it's not directed toward Jews, per se, it's directed toward the nation of Israel and it's policies regarding Palestinians.

To say that Jews were all bloodthirsty would be antisemitic. I haven't seen that here.

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. I agree. DU will never be the same for me either.

People I have known here for YEARS have shown me something I thought I'd never witness on this board. Sad, but true.

[EFerrari]

38. Mr. Spock made a good point earlier today which I'm probably

going to get wrong.

It isn't DU, it's this country right now. It isn't us, and it isn't Democrats. It's the culture in general. The Thugs have been fanning the worst in this country for years and years now. And, like it or not, it affects everyone.

[MercutioATC]

26. Other: The discussion is evolving as it should.

Yes, important discussions occasionally get heated. That's a good thing.

I don't understand the desire to remove an issue from the most-accessed forums simply because it gets out of hand at times.

Leave it where it is.

[alfredo]

28. Restrict them to Pig Latin.

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. They need their own I/L forum. NOT the I/P forum.

They need their own I/L forum with the same rules as GD....not the rules the I/P forum has.

[EFerrari]

40. Kick

[SoCalDem]

41. No solution.. I just am laying low, and doing other things these days

:)

I have noticed that:

if one criticizes Israel , they are often labeled anti-semitic


This is why in the early days of DU, the decision was made to dump I/P stuff in the dungeon with the gunslingers..

There is apparently NO civil way to even discuss the issue.. George Bush has done one thing for sure.. His inane 50-50/with-us-or-with-the-terrrrrraists/black-white etc philosophy has mortally wounded nuance..even at DU :cry:

In the final analysis, our cyber-babble will not solve the horrific middle east problems, but it's sad that civil discussion about it cannot happen either

[rman]

44. other: less accusations of anti-semitism,

especially those of the broad-brush kind accusing "DU" of being anti-semitic.

such as
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1765158&mesg_id=1765623