Ignoring Ms Coulter, and her enablers, isn't making her go away

[dsc]

While promoting her current book, Ms. Coulter has been on nearly every show she was on the last time she promoted a book. She has been on the Today Show, the Tonight Show, Hardball, and several others. For a full list (dates appear to be date of taping not date of airing) go here http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1326010/ . It is hard, looking at that list, to make a case that her 15 minutes is nearly over.

I am not old enough to remember, but in my lifetime, racial slurs were common place in everyday conversation and on TV. Southern newspapers refused to print a black person's last name. Thus Martin Luther King was refered to as Martin Luther or Martin. That isn't the case now. No one who used racial slurs or disrepected people racially would set foot in the Today Show's studios. Not unless they were already famous and making an abject apology. The likes of Ms. Coulter though are more than welcome.

People like me will never be fully equal to people like you if people are permitted to use those slurs on TV without reprecussion. We are dreaming if we believe any differently. No one will give a fag rights because fags aren't human. It doesn't get simpler than that.

I heard my quota, and a few other's quotas, of fag for lifetime. I'll be damned if in the guise of ignoring Ms. Coulter, I will tolerate the airing of that word for conservatives amusement. Ms. Coulter will go away if and only if we make Ms. Coulter go away. Ms. Coulter has every right to spout innane fantasies. She doesn't have every right to spout them on some of the most valuable TV real estate we have. I had an uncle who used to spout racial epithets from time to time. No one in my family suggested he should be permitted to go on the Today Show. We had the good sense to hang our heads and say "it's just uncle B. he is old you know". He wasn't going to change, but that didn't mean we had to listen to his deranged crap. In a sane world Ms. Coulter would be on a rocker somewhere talking to pidgeons, not in Matt Lauer's studio. Only by constant pressure do we have a prayer of making that happen.

[bronxiteforever]

1. I still can't get over her remark about the 911 widows.

In a country that had a shred of human compassion for those who did suffer on that day, she would be banished to the trash heap and not given star treatment on talk shows. Her words show she is a monster. The fact that the media has not banned her for those odious statement confirms that the Matt Lauers and Chris Matthews of the world are not worthy of the men who died so that there would be freedom of the press.
Coulter couldn't just disagree with the politics of the 911 widows she had to assassinate their characters and say that they wanted their husbands dead. This harpy is allowed to portray those awful deaths in that way? would a democrat ever get away with this and be the celeb of the talk shows?

Matthews and Lauer would praise Hitler for being a good guest-in the end though she represents the GOP and majority power brokers and they have sick, sick minds and are soulless beings.

Thanks for getting my blood boiling again-good post

[gatorboy]

2. I can't decide what's worse.

Her own behavior or that of her followers that are so forceful to defend her (especially the group standing behind her during her recent Hardball visit. That they're waving American flags knowing what she believes in, only make them even that more creepy).

[idgiehkt]

3. She's doing it because we did it first.

I said a while back that Letterman should have never referred to her as 'an inconvenient bitch'. Or who was it said that they had a voodoo doll of her and that they 'violated her' figuratively???Matthew McConaughy? Sean Penn?

We don't have a leg to stand on. Letterman's again calling her a 'crazy bitch' on tv. When will liberals get this through our thick heads...slurs against women are okay but slurs against gays are not? Wow, she'll have a field day with that one.

[Bluebear]

4. bitch = fag to you?

the slurs are equal? And she is the way she is because of how *we* act? Really?

[idgiehkt]

7. nope, not to me

but a hell of alot of middle america isn't going to be convinced there is much difference between Dave calling her a 'crazy bitch' and her calling Al Gore a 'fag'.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. Umm, actually, it does to me

Degrading and dehumanizing. D'you think young men refer to women as 'bitches' as a sign of respect?

[Bluebear]

38. So you have NEVER felt bitchy???

I sure have. I have told my SO that he is in a bitchy mood.

I never have called anyone a faggot. I'm surprised that you think both words are equally degrading, I don't think most people would.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. Yes I have, and I've been called bitchy

I've also called things and people "gay" and "faggy". Depending on the context in which it is used, YES, bitch is as degrading as fag. Also, depending on the context in which fag is used.

[Bluebear]

46. Well, I cannot imagine any good context for the word "fag"

But that's just me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. As opposed to the 'good' bitch context? n/t

[dsc]

5. We should have never responded in kind

but the notion that we started this is totally absurd.

[idgiehkt]

6. nope, I'm not saying we 'started' it

I'm saying she's shrewd enough to observe something like that and go, wow, they just gave me a free ticket to slur them any way that I want; if they say anything about it I can call them hypocritical and they won't have a defense against it.

[dsc]

8. She is doing it because we did it first

what do those words mean other than we started it? I will agree, and have argued strenuously here, that we lost moral high ground by behaving in kind but that is different than what you originally said.

[idgiehkt]

14. because you are failing to put yourself in her head

and failing to give her credit for how shrewd she is because liberals still want to cling to the erroneous belief that the opposition is stupid. Ann Coulter is not stupid, she knows liberal commentary on her has given her a free pass, that's probably a large part of why she is doing all this, so when liberals go hysterical about it she can bring up what we've said about her, and ask why it is okay for us to call her, for instance, transgender, which is if you didn't know, the most common liberal slur against her, and yet it is not okay for her to call Al Gore a fag.

WAKE UP, people. She's probably setting it up just his way, because we were the stupid asses who rendered ourselves defenseless against this shit by our own hypocrisy. We are going to come off like hypocrites, and she is going to have the time of her life pointing it out. Gawd, I'd hate to enter "Ann The Man" Coulter in the search function here and see what comes up...

[Quantess]

39. So..........help me out, here.

Are you arguing that Ann Coulter changed her gender to invite liberal criticism? Or that she tries to look transgendered? I'd say that's quite a feat, don't you? And all just to stir liberal hypocrisy.

That's what your post seems to say.

[sandnsea]

11. Oh bull goddamn shit

There is a world of difference between bitch and fag and nigger. Bitch is just a word, like asshole or jerk. Men get bitchy too. It means something very specific and it is NOT a slur against women. It is also NOT a slur against women to call them a whore if they're acting like a whore, any more than it's a slur against men to call them a pimp if they're acting like a pimp. Females are not made up of a group of Holy Virgin Marys who are never deserving of any negative utterance regarding their bad behavior. Fag and nigger are used to specifically slur people because of WHO they are, not WHAT they do.

[idgiehkt]

13. in your world.

"It is also NOT a slur against women to call them a whore if they're acting like a whore."

Who was it that made that comment a while back about 'white niggers'? Was it Byrd. Yeah, that went over like a lead balloon. Middle America isn't going to listen to your paragraph explanation about why what we do is okay vs. why what they do isn't. You've only got a few seconds to get your sound-bite in, and after the first half of the second sentence you've lost them. And that I quoted above about labeling women whores, well, I'd love to hear you expound on that. Are these the same women that 'asked for it' in cases of rape because of the way they were dressed?

[sandnsea]

17. I am middle america

And I'm talking about the broad use of the word fag to disparage a whole group of people verses the very specific use of the word bitch to describe Ann Coulter's repulsive behavior. Not rape, not groups of poor whites, not anything else. Middle America is a helluva lot smarter than you think, except the ones who use words like nigger and fag themselves and who gives a shit what they think anyway.

[idgiehkt]

19. I know what you're talking about

but to alot of people the two are exactly the same thing and anyone trying to say differently is just going to look stupid.

I am also middle america, or working class southern, and I know that for many profanity is profanity.

[VelmaD]

21. Get in it your head...

they use the word bitch to disparage women as a group.

[VelmaD]

20. I call bullshit

Bitch is a slur used against a person, almost always a woman, because of WHO they are. If it's used against a woman it's for not being a demure little flower like women are supposed to be. It it's used against a man it's to put him in the role of woman to belittle him.

[sandnsea]

26. I just disagree

It describes a behavior, not the whole of women the way nigger or fag does. The only time I've ever heard bitches used in a generically negative way against women as a group is in rap music, and that isn't mainstream and certainly isn't the way Letterman was using it with Ann Coulter. Women do act like bitches, as do men; women do act like whores, as do men. I think objecting to the use of bitch implies women couldn't possibly engage in such behavior and actually implies that they're "demure little flowers" because there's apparently no such thing as a bitch.

[dsc]

27. The point is that we call a woman a bitch

but a man assertive for not being a demure little flower. I will grant it isn't totally equal but it isn't that far off.

[sandnsea]

28. I honestly disagree

Would you call me assertive or bitchy? It's okay to be honest. Like I always say, call me anything but cupcake.

Women are put into all sorts of categories, from bitchy to cupcake to blonde. The particular words fag and nigger are all encompassing where we would have a bitchy nigger or a bitchy fag. I can't think of a word that equates to fag and nigger because women don't fall in quite the same category and never have. Women being stoned to death in foreign countries have got nothing in common with the word bitch. Nigger and fag are universal.

[dsc]

29. again I am not claiming a total correspondence

Clearly bitch is less universal than either of the others. I would call you assertive, but I try not to be sexist. Admittedly back in the primary wars I might have been a little less pc (lol). In all seriousness I can see why women find that word offensive.

[sandnsea]

30. Exactly, not a total correspondence

I know that the subjugation and denigration of women is serious around the world and something that women should be a lot more aware of in this country. I just don't think bitch is the word that encompasses it all, although some in the younger crowd seem to use it in a more denigrating way and is incredibly offensive. But still doesn't rise to the level of those other two words.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Now surely

You've heard people make distinctions between "good" Black people and "n*****s", haven't you? Because I sure have. Whether or not a degrading term is all-encompassing has nothing to do with it's power to hurt the recipient.

[sandnsea]

37. And there you have it

To those people you are referring, the universe of black people are "n" words except for the few who aren't. The universe of women are women, except for when we, on occasion, act like bitches. You identified the difference between a word used as a denigrating oppressive slur; and situational catty, snippity, backbiting.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. You are lucky indeed

To live in a rare misogyny-free environment. To be relatively free from encounters with people who view the universe of women as bitches, except for the few exceptions. Or those who will be fairly neutral to you until you, as Rebecca West quipped, differentiate yourself from a doormat. At which point you become a bitch. (She was referring to the term 'feminist' but I think it's still an apt expression.) You are truly fortunate. Either that, or you haven't been paying attention.

edit to add: My experience comes from many years in male-dominated work environments. The guys tend to forget you're there and really let their attitudes toward women have free reign. You would be astonished at how some of them talk about us. "Bitch" is the least of it, really.

[sandnsea]

47. Most men are not misogynists

It is not rare to live in a misogyny-free zone. I'm 48 years old. I've worked with men at many points in my life. I never took shit from any of them, I know exactly how they talk about women which isn't any different than how women talk about men. There are some real neanderthals out there that are physically threatening to women and fit the definition of misogynist, but most male bitch sessions are exactly that, bitch sessions and if women were honest about it they'd recognize them as such.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. aargh! self-deleted as not even worth the trouble.....

n/t

[dsc]

22. They are closer than you are giving them credit for being

Men who are called bitches are basicly being called gay (ie women like or prison bitches) and women who are called that are generally called that for behaviors which are at least tolerated in men and often celebrated.

[VelmaD]

23. thank you

for getting it :hug:

[dsc]

24. no problem

I have heard the word enough to understand what it means. We have to hang together or we hang seperately.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. I do too! n/t

[sandnsea]

25. I said bitchY - not bitches

It describes behavior when it is used in that way, the way Letterman used it with Ann Coulter. "Bitches" as a broad term used derogatorily towards gays is relatively recent and has nothing to do with the traditional use of the word bitch regarding a bitchy woman.

[FairVotes4all]

44. I always thought Bitches were Female Dogs...

...And considering Coulter is anything but human, I think it's a pretty close description.

[CatWoman]

31. oooooooooooooo

preach it, S&S

:D

[galileo3000]

9. Patience, Coulter likes to bait extremism

Anne Coulter is very adept at garnering tremendous by provoking progressives through her intentionally caustic remarks. Don't take the bait - Elevate (please forgive me Johnny Cochran). Treat her as you would a frightened wounded animal, keep your distance. She is damaged goods and we are an easy target.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Making her a target of ridicule is becoming great sport.

[Truthiness Inspector]

12. She is a loon

who is imploding on her own. Yeah, she's selling a few books and getting "face time" on tv but her caustic schtick is starting to erode on her support. I was surfing the net a while back (sorry can't remember the site) where right wingers, mostly women, were pissed as hell she made those nasty comments about women being too stupid to handle money, etc. Little by little, she is tearing herself apart, and her supporters are thinning out. One day she will eventually insult everyone, and poof, there will be Annie all alone wondering where all the bright lights went.

[idgiehkt]

15. this is mean

but I am starting to beleive that except most of the time I just tell myself it's wishful thinking. I think that first she was a novelty, in a circus freak kind of way, then the 9/11 jingoism was her peak, and now neo-conservatism is on the decline because it's wrecked the world but maybe no one told her...so she's getting some flack she's not used to this time around. must suck. but she does seem a little edgy lately, like you said.

[KC21304]

16. She admitted on Hardball that her columns

have been discontinued in some cities so she is paying a price. And she has become even more freakish and shrill in defending herself. She may be getting exposure because of her freakish side show aspects but that is not what she wants. She considers herself a very smart Constitutional lawyer and now she knows she will never be recognized for that aspect of her career.

[Doctor_J]

18. Neither will posting every new idiocy she spews

[Occulus]

33. Oh, I learned this lesson, all too well

That phrase ("ignore them and they'll go away") was my mom'sq favorite piece pf 'advice', followed closely by "if you insist on being different than others you should expect it" and with "I don't know what to tell you" a very close third.

It's bullshit. Complete, utter bullshit. Ann wants war with liberals; let's give her war- until she chokes to death on it.

STOP BEING NICE. STOP SHOWING "RESPECT". THEY DON'T APPRECIATE IT. THEY SEE IT AS A WEAKNESS. THEY TREAT US LIKE IT IS ONE.

Can I possibly be more plain than that?

[area51]

51. agreed.

Republinazi psychos want war; they should be given war.

[bridgit]

36. so long as she is enabled to be outrageous without any form of...

cogent comeback she ain't going anywhere cause there's too much money i being what she is a screeching bitch willing to eat her debate coach tartar on a cold platter

[Disturbed]

41. What's the word for a man that says things

similar to Coulter? I agree that calling her a bitch is counter productive and sexist. I call her a viscious plagerist. Her looks are not imporant to me. Whether she is Trans or not does not matter. We should not ignore her and those that support &/or promote her on their shows. We should figure out how to fight her and all of those that agree with her awful views.

[Quantess]

45. Isn't it funny. I think "bitch" is deserved, for her.

And I'm a woman. Why mince words? She's a psychotic bitch. Don't feel guilty saying it.

But, I must add, I liked it better when DU ignored her. I don't give a shit about her. Mostly, I came to this thread to say so, but I got caught up replying to some posts.

I like being blissfully unaware of her, and her unimportant antics.

[sandnsea]

48. lol, "man"

cuz, you know, they're ALL lying vicious pricks.

Now see, that's sexist.

[TheFarseer]

40. uh........................

Who's ignoring her? She's been on every talk show but Oprah. I'm not saying ignoring her is the answer, but to say that ignoring her isn't working, is like saying crashing that space shuttle full of cotton candy into the sun hasn't stopped global warming. It hasn't happened yet so how can you say that?